There are some pretty odd formations on Mars and some interesting theories out there, but no I don't think there is life on Mars.
About the other thread. I am really sorry if it was me who derailed it. I was worried about responding because of that. If I offended anyone I really do apologise--it is not the first thread I have derailed. I get asked something and respond and then boom--off on another topic.
Forgive me--I think it comes from being blonde and brassy--but I didn't want to take it too far off topic--big mouth syndrome I fear.
I find it unlikely that there is life on Mars, but at the same time, find it highly likely that there is life out there on other planets. I would say that it would be more strange if we could somehow determine that there isn't life anywhere else than if we did discover life elsewhere. I see no reason why our planet, which is smaller than a speck of dust in the universe, were somehow more important than everything else out there. The universe is simply too big for life to not be probable elsewhere. As Carl Sagan said:
We live on a hunk of rock and metal that circles a humdrum star that is one of 400 billion other stars that make up the Milky Way Galaxy which is one of billions of other galaxies which make up a universe which may be one of a very large number, perhaps an infinite number, of other universes.
There are more galaxies in our universe than there are human beings on Earth. The idea that we are alone in the universe doesn't seem to make sense, given the probability of the situation. We may never know, as life on our planet won't go on forever, and the vast distances required for us to travel just to check out the nearest star (even if we could go at light speed) would take multiple generations. Still, anything could happen, so I think it's good to consider that life elsewhere is possible, if not likely. Without proof though, it is meaningless.
Well now, that's a good question. Let's keep it low: not the sort of life that can think enough to build a space ship to look at us - but high enough that it can think. Find its own food/power source. Reproduce in some way.
Do you think there is life elsewhere in the universe?
I think so. At the very least, the probability of earth being the _only_ planet to support life in a universe with (Carl Sagan mode on) bill-yions and bill-yions of galaxies, each containing bill-yions and bill-yions of stars (Carl Sagan mode off :) ), ... is very, very low.
Ie., in transverse, the likelihood of other planets and systems containing life is very, very high. And this is just based on (the proper, I believe) usage of statistical analysis, and extrapolating from that.
Can I absolutely prove it? Nope. Do I hang on to it like blind faith? Nope. We might very well be the only ones in the universe. ... But I doubt that very much.
Question I'd _really_ like to see answered is finding any civilizations out there who not only have achieved space flight, ... but have achieved faster than light space flight. :B)
Question I'd _really_ like to see answered is finding any civilizations out there who not only have achieved space flight, ... but have achieved faster than light space flight. :B)
But hey! Maybe that's the Trekker in me.
I could propose a theory here. Let's assume that life would come about on other planets in similar ways to how it did on Earth. Let's even go as far as saying that all life has to be similar to life on Earth because of some yet unknown laws of physics and such.
So if alien life is similar to what we have, with some possible modifications (e.g. lizard-people, fish-people, etc), and because of the big bang, the time life was able to come about on those planets was around the same time it did on Earth, give or take a few million years, it's likely that any other civilizations out there would be in a similar point of evolution as ours. That would mean that some civilizations would be further ahead, but since breaking the laws of physics, such as FTL travel, is so advanced, it's unlikely any other civilization would have reached that point yet. That would explain why we haven't seen real evidence of other societies in space yet. It's entirely possible even that we are the most advanced life in the universe, or the furthest behind.
There's a lot of cool possibilities, but I think that we will probably never know if there is life elsewhere or not. Unfortunately.
I think that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is capable of many life-forms. Maybe they function on higher planes, i.e. angels. If there are, it wouldn't offend me for I still believe the Bible when it says that we are the apple of HIS eye. Hallelujah!
If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.
Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.
And yet we have evolutionary biologists and other related experts/professionals who say otherwise, and that in less than 4.5 billion years.
With the scientific knowledge about our world and the universe that is growing exponentially, new planetary systems being discovered at an almost weekly basis, and the expanding and different kinds of environments that we are finding new life to thrive in, including environments that were previously considered totally hostile to life, ... the traditional "We are the only ones in this universe, and the whole thing was made _just_ for us, God's creation" (which is rather quite arrogant when ya think about it <_< ) spiel is losing its validity with yours truly more and more.
If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.
We also have scientists that say bees can't fly, yet they do. The interesting thing about science is that it involves making mistakes and learning from them, and proposing theories that you test, and if they prove valid you keep them, and if not, you throw them out and learn from them. At this point, it's simply not possible to tell. However, Mars is sounding hospitable for unicellular organisms and such, so we'll see if that is announced soon.
Its SCIENCE. Who am I to argue. I've been interested in astronomy, stars, planets, and universe since I was a kid with my large tripod telescope, finding the constellations, planets, etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS is, no, probably not. The more they learn, the more they are seeing, probably not. There are other planets, but there must also be certain, exact factors, for life to happen. We seem to be a unique random accident. It will be interesting to see what Mars has.
If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.
that's kind of a dilemma of mine... what if there are other life forms other than carbon based??? what if they're there and we just don't see them?
Tom: yes, I have wondered about the "carbon-based" idea too. Life as we know it is carbon-based. But that's the unique blend of materials available on our planet. Maybe there are planets out there that have a different sort of structure altogether and have a life form based on plutoyaddayaddaplong or something, some element we may not even know about yet.
Maybe life on earth was "created" as the first carbon-based life forms? And life forms on planet Zog were created based on plutoyaddayaddaplong?
Sunesis: star gazing certainly is fascinating. And we can't even see a tiny fraction of what's out there. Lovely to lie outside with a pair of binoculars looking at the stars, though. Unless one's fortunate enough to have a telescope somewhere indoors.
Well, God knows what he's put together, where and how. If he wants us to know, he can tell us. Perhaps he hasn't told us because he doesn't want us to get out there and start destroying or dominating it, like too much life on this planet. But that's a whole nother issue.
"Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us."
Great! Just great!! <_< With responses like that, it's a damn wonder we ever got beyond, or even to the level of, Gutenburg making the printing press back during the 1400s!
"Who am I to argue"? ... Uhhhmm, a thinking, questioning human being? Hell, just about all of us here didn't display that "Who am I to argue" attitude towards TWI when we got sick and tired of all the religious bulls**t and abuse coming from that madhouse! Ya gave up _that_ mentality when talking back to Craiggers and Co., didn't ya? ... And rightfully so!
"If he wants us to know, he can tell us." ... Hey! I got a (if you'll pardon my blasphemousy here) _better_ idea. If _we_ want to know, why wait around for any deity's permission to find out!? Knowledge isn't something that we have to ask permission for to find out! Yeah, yeah, I know. Some of us had it *beaten* into our skulls that we should "know our place", and that we shouldn't think beyond what we're supposed to think, (<--- see Romans ch. 12 for this mentality) etc., etc. ..... Hhmmm, didn't some cornfield 'cult' in Northwestern Ohio try to instill in us some similar mindset? ... Y'know, a tactic they used that was one of the reasons that they are called a 'cult' to begin with? <_<
There's a lot of things out there in space to find out, and I'd bet that there even are things that might run the risk of turning a lot of staunch, traditional beliefs upon their heads. ... Perhaps that is one of the main things that gives some folks here pause before proceeding further, maybe?
Oh by the way, I think I'm beginning to get a better understanding as to why the thing that God didn't want Adam and Eve to partake of back in the garden was called ... the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Just some things for your collective consideration. ;)
According to the NASA web Sight--there is a solar eclipse tomorrow. 8/1 Visible in a narrow corridor. There is an eclipse for the next three years--or I mean this and the next two?
George Noory can convince you of aliens in under 5 minutes.:)
Hubby went to hear this guy speak -- he was ex-government big wig with access to military records. Real straight forward guy. Normal. He said UFO's have been around for awhile and the vast majority have been checking our our nuclear plants and military installations.
The guy was not a nut job. He had records of sightings and all kinds of cool stuff- but who knows. I still doubt it.
I like the Eric Idle take of it all. . . . . . .
Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown,
And things seem hard or tough,
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft,
And you feel that you've had quite eno-o-o-o-o-ough...
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the "Milky Way".
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
"Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us."
Great! Just great!! <_< With responses like that, it's a damn wonder we ever got beyond, or even to the level of, Gutenburg making the printing press back during the 1400s!
"Who am I to argue"? ... Uhhhmm, a thinking, questioning human being? Hell, just about all of us here didn't display that "Who am I to argue" attitude towards TWI when we got sick and tired of all the religious bulls**t and abuse coming from that madhouse! Ya gave up _that_ mentality when talking back to Craiggers and Co., didn't ya? ... And rightfully so!
...There's a lot of things out there in space to find out, and I'd bet that there even are things that might run the risk of turning a lot of staunch, traditional beliefs upon their heads. ... Perhaps that is one of the main things that gives some folks here pause before proceeding further, maybe?
Garth, I suffered a shedload of abuse in TWI, in no small part because I liked to use my God-given brain and my God-given ability to think. And if I ventured into critical thinking or even remotely considering that another way to do something might be better or more efficient or less mind-numbing, I got such a load of BS and spiteful accusations of "thinking carnally" and "using my five senses". I had more than my fair share of personal face-meltings from LCM.
Thank you, I WILL NOT put up with the same abuse from you. Feel free to apologise.
I simply meant, as it seems (at least right now) that we are unable to get to the other side of the galaxy (let alone the universe) in our lifetimes, if God wants us to know he will tell us. No way we can find out that by our five senses. And frankly, I don't know if we need to know. Plenty of things to get right on this planet before we find another to wreak havoc upon.
I'm not anti-exploration and have a very inquisitive nature. I am grateful for the inquisitiveness of others that has brought so many advances in our society in the material beenfits we enjoy, eg, in medicine and things to stuff into our houses. Many things are a spin-off from space programs (eg, Teflon!).
Well Twinky, I'll feel free to _not_ apologize. And I'll tell ya the following reasons why:
1) What I posted comes nowhere near any 'face melting' by Craig and Co., and I've heard him do some pretty mean face meltings, even in my days in da Way. What I posted here is pretty much standard fare coming from anybody voicing astonishment and disagreement to an outrageous idea, be it on the internet, in the Letters to the Editor section of any newspaper, people calling in to radio stations, etc. ... Ie., its called voicing an opposing opinion. ((Ooopsie! I hope my using the bold font didn't 'melt your face' too much. <_< ))
2) Related to point 1, what I am responding to are the concepts of "Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us.", and for that I make NO apologies nor retractions. I find the ideas behind those statements totally revolting and are _far_ more compatible with Craig and his 'face meltings' than you might realize. As a matter of fact, people like LCM and VPW do not like to have their ideas criticized and talked back to, and believe you me, if I talked to them like I just talked to you, _they_ would be the ones trying to 'melt my face'.
So you might want to re-evaluate your position because, 1) disagreements like the one we're having are part and parcel of the real world (so get used to it), and 2) being told to apologize for openly responding to what I think of the phrases like "'Who am I to argue.' ... 'If he wants us to know, he can tell us.'" eerily resemble TWI and other 'face melting' groups, ... and a lot more than you might realize.
Sure we are. Via the scientific method of discovery and invention, we are building up a means towards getting to the other side of the galaxy in good time. It no doubt won't be in our lifetimes, but it will occur, and that by means of the scientific method based on reason, discovery, and the like, ... all of which takes the usage of our five senses, ... and our brain.
(Just can't stop, can I? ;) )
Garth, I suffered a shedload of abuse in TWI, in no small part because I liked to use my God-given brain and my God-given ability to think. And if I ventured into critical thinking or even remotely considering that another way to do something might be better or more efficient or less mind-numbing, I got such a load of BS and spiteful accusations of "thinking carnally" and "using my five senses". I had more than my fair share of personal face-meltings from LCM.
Then perhaps a good idea is to venture into the wonderful world of critical thinking anyway, full bore. I kid you not when I apply the words 'wonderful world' to the practice of critical thinking, because it (as you no doubt have discovered already) opens up new vistas to wonder, new things, ... and freedom. Such freedom that TWI and Co could never aspire to, and since they don't want it, they don't know what they are missing! :)
Here's a suggestion. Venture even more into critical thinking anyway, cause you know it'll .... TWI off. Ahhh yes. 'thinking carnally', 'using your five senses', and all done to spit in TWI's eye and let them know that you're not gonna goosestep to their s**t anymore.
See, that's why phrases like "Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us." annoy folks like me. Because concepts like that have the effect of poo-pooing critical thinking. Of asking the questions that a lot of people don't bother to ask, perhaps because a good number of them feel that it isn't their place to ask. To venture into areas of knowledge that are (supposedly) outside of human understanding. ... I am quite thankful that there have been, and are more still, people who disregard that 'know your place' idiotology. (<--- no, that is not a typo)
To be clear, I am not mad at you. I am, however, ticked off at the concepts behind the phrases you brought up.
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waysider
How is "life" being defined?
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geisha779
Hi,
There are some pretty odd formations on Mars and some interesting theories out there, but no I don't think there is life on Mars.
About the other thread. I am really sorry if it was me who derailed it. I was worried about responding because of that. If I offended anyone I really do apologise--it is not the first thread I have derailed. I get asked something and respond and then boom--off on another topic.
Forgive me--I think it comes from being blonde and brassy--but I didn't want to take it too far off topic--big mouth syndrome I fear.
Take Care.
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Mister P-Mosh
I find it unlikely that there is life on Mars, but at the same time, find it highly likely that there is life out there on other planets. I would say that it would be more strange if we could somehow determine that there isn't life anywhere else than if we did discover life elsewhere. I see no reason why our planet, which is smaller than a speck of dust in the universe, were somehow more important than everything else out there. The universe is simply too big for life to not be probable elsewhere. As Carl Sagan said:
There are more galaxies in our universe than there are human beings on Earth. The idea that we are alone in the universe doesn't seem to make sense, given the probability of the situation. We may never know, as life on our planet won't go on forever, and the vast distances required for us to travel just to check out the nearest star (even if we could go at light speed) would take multiple generations. Still, anything could happen, so I think it's good to consider that life elsewhere is possible, if not likely. Without proof though, it is meaningless.
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Twinky
Well now, that's a good question. Let's keep it low: not the sort of life that can think enough to build a space ship to look at us - but high enough that it can think. Find its own food/power source. Reproduce in some way.
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Ham
Carl Sagan said something else like.. "if there ISN'T, then it's waste of a LOT of space."
It's like.. there is so much room for development, doesn't it make sense.. "if you build it, *they* will come.."?
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Ham
Even ask Geo..
first comes the land.. then the plan, then the building, the myriad of building inspectors, and last but not least, the tax assessors..
It's probably just as true on a cosmic level..
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GarthP2000
I think so. At the very least, the probability of earth being the _only_ planet to support life in a universe with (Carl Sagan mode on) bill-yions and bill-yions of galaxies, each containing bill-yions and bill-yions of stars (Carl Sagan mode off :) ), ... is very, very low.
Ie., in transverse, the likelihood of other planets and systems containing life is very, very high. And this is just based on (the proper, I believe) usage of statistical analysis, and extrapolating from that.
Can I absolutely prove it? Nope. Do I hang on to it like blind faith? Nope. We might very well be the only ones in the universe. ... But I doubt that very much.
Question I'd _really_ like to see answered is finding any civilizations out there who not only have achieved space flight, ... but have achieved faster than light space flight. :B)
But hey! Maybe that's the Trekker in me.
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Mister P-Mosh
I could propose a theory here. Let's assume that life would come about on other planets in similar ways to how it did on Earth. Let's even go as far as saying that all life has to be similar to life on Earth because of some yet unknown laws of physics and such.
So if alien life is similar to what we have, with some possible modifications (e.g. lizard-people, fish-people, etc), and because of the big bang, the time life was able to come about on those planets was around the same time it did on Earth, give or take a few million years, it's likely that any other civilizations out there would be in a similar point of evolution as ours. That would mean that some civilizations would be further ahead, but since breaking the laws of physics, such as FTL travel, is so advanced, it's unlikely any other civilization would have reached that point yet. That would explain why we haven't seen real evidence of other societies in space yet. It's entirely possible even that we are the most advanced life in the universe, or the furthest behind.
There's a lot of cool possibilities, but I think that we will probably never know if there is life elsewhere or not. Unfortunately.
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coolchef
i certainly hope there is life elsewhere and if there is i bet they are smartter that the critters here on earth!
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brideofjc
I think that the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY is capable of many life-forms. Maybe they function on higher planes, i.e. angels. If there are, it wouldn't offend me for I still believe the Bible when it says that we are the apple of HIS eye. Hallelujah!
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Sunesis
If we are talking intelligent life like we are (well, that's debatable), or other carbon based life forms, I would like to believe so, and I used to believe so, but over the years no, I don't anymore. The more astrophysisists and scientists learn about space and the universe, the more they are seeing its not feasible. The consensus is more along the lines of no. Astrophysisists also believe there has not been enough time in this universe (14-15 billion years old) for life to form from simple, single cell, bacteria to the full scale animal and human life we have on this planet (cite - evolutionary biologist Franciso Ayala, Quoted by Frank J. Tipler in "Intelligent Life in Cosmology," International Journal of Astrobiology 2(2003):142.
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GarthP2000
And yet we have evolutionary biologists and other related experts/professionals who say otherwise, and that in less than 4.5 billion years.
With the scientific knowledge about our world and the universe that is growing exponentially, new planetary systems being discovered at an almost weekly basis, and the expanding and different kinds of environments that we are finding new life to thrive in, including environments that were previously considered totally hostile to life, ... the traditional "We are the only ones in this universe, and the whole thing was made _just_ for us, God's creation" (which is rather quite arrogant when ya think about it <_< ) spiel is losing its validity with yours truly more and more.
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Mister P-Mosh
We also have scientists that say bees can't fly, yet they do. The interesting thing about science is that it involves making mistakes and learning from them, and proposing theories that you test, and if they prove valid you keep them, and if not, you throw them out and learn from them. At this point, it's simply not possible to tell. However, Mars is sounding hospitable for unicellular organisms and such, so we'll see if that is announced soon.
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Sunesis
Its SCIENCE. Who am I to argue. I've been interested in astronomy, stars, planets, and universe since I was a kid with my large tripod telescope, finding the constellations, planets, etc. It has nothing to do with the Bible. The SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS is, no, probably not. The more they learn, the more they are seeing, probably not. There are other planets, but there must also be certain, exact factors, for life to happen. We seem to be a unique random accident. It will be interesting to see what Mars has.
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Tom Strange
that's kind of a dilemma of mine... what if there are other life forms other than carbon based??? what if they're there and we just don't see them?
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Ham
for that matter, *we* might be the minority. Even worse, maybe *we* are their some kind of "pet"..
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Twinky
Geisha: You're forgiven! Have a beer!!
Tom: yes, I have wondered about the "carbon-based" idea too. Life as we know it is carbon-based. But that's the unique blend of materials available on our planet. Maybe there are planets out there that have a different sort of structure altogether and have a life form based on plutoyaddayaddaplong or something, some element we may not even know about yet.
Maybe life on earth was "created" as the first carbon-based life forms? And life forms on planet Zog were created based on plutoyaddayaddaplong?
Sunesis: star gazing certainly is fascinating. And we can't even see a tiny fraction of what's out there. Lovely to lie outside with a pair of binoculars looking at the stars, though. Unless one's fortunate enough to have a telescope somewhere indoors.
Well, God knows what he's put together, where and how. If he wants us to know, he can tell us. Perhaps he hasn't told us because he doesn't want us to get out there and start destroying or dominating it, like too much life on this planet. But that's a whole nother issue.
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Mister P-Mosh
Thanks for the earworm!
Now I have that Porno for Pyros song stuck in my head. :P
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GarthP2000
"Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us."
Great! Just great!! <_< With responses like that, it's a damn wonder we ever got beyond, or even to the level of, Gutenburg making the printing press back during the 1400s!
"Who am I to argue"? ... Uhhhmm, a thinking, questioning human being? Hell, just about all of us here didn't display that "Who am I to argue" attitude towards TWI when we got sick and tired of all the religious bulls**t and abuse coming from that madhouse!
Ya gave up _that_ mentality when talking back to Craiggers and Co., didn't ya? ... And rightfully so!
"If he wants us to know, he can tell us." ... Hey! I got a (if you'll pardon my blasphemousy here) _better_ idea. If _we_ want to know, why wait around for any deity's permission to find out!? Knowledge isn't something that we have to ask permission for to find out! Yeah, yeah, I know. Some of us had it *beaten* into our skulls that we should "know our place", and that we shouldn't think beyond what we're supposed to think, (<--- see Romans ch. 12 for this mentality) etc., etc. ..... Hhmmm, didn't some cornfield 'cult' in Northwestern Ohio try to instill in us some similar mindset? ... Y'know, a tactic they used that was one of the reasons that they are called a 'cult' to begin with? <_<
There's a lot of things out there in space to find out, and I'd bet that there even are things that might run the risk of turning a lot of staunch, traditional beliefs upon their heads. ... Perhaps that is one of the main things that gives some folks here pause before proceeding further, maybe?
Oh by the way, I think I'm beginning to get a better understanding as to why the thing that God didn't want Adam and Eve to partake of back in the garden was called ... the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.
Just some things for your collective consideration. ;)
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geisha779
According to the NASA web Sight--there is a solar eclipse tomorrow. 8/1 Visible in a narrow corridor. There is an eclipse for the next three years--or I mean this and the next two?
George Noory can convince you of aliens in under 5 minutes.:)
Hubby went to hear this guy speak -- he was ex-government big wig with access to military records. Real straight forward guy. Normal. He said UFO's have been around for awhile and the vast majority have been checking our our nuclear plants and military installations.
The guy was not a nut job. He had records of sightings and all kinds of cool stuff- but who knows. I still doubt it.
I like the Eric Idle take of it all. . . . . . .
Whenever life gets you down, Mrs. Brown,
And things seem hard or tough,
And people are stupid, obnoxious or daft,
And you feel that you've had quite eno-o-o-o-o-ough...
Just remember that you're standing on a planet that's evolving
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour,
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second, so it's reckoned,
A sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see
Are moving at a million miles a day
In an outer spiral arm, at forty thousand miles an hour,
Of the galaxy we call the "Milky Way".
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, sixteen thousand light years thick,
But out by us, it's just three thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years,
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions
In this amazing and expanding universe.
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding
In all of the directions it can whizz
As fast as it can go, at the speed of light, you know,
Twelve million miles a minute, and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure,
How amazingly unlikely is your birth,
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space,
'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth.
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Twinky
Garth, I suffered a shedload of abuse in TWI, in no small part because I liked to use my God-given brain and my God-given ability to think. And if I ventured into critical thinking or even remotely considering that another way to do something might be better or more efficient or less mind-numbing, I got such a load of BS and spiteful accusations of "thinking carnally" and "using my five senses". I had more than my fair share of personal face-meltings from LCM.
Thank you, I WILL NOT put up with the same abuse from you. Feel free to apologise.
I simply meant, as it seems (at least right now) that we are unable to get to the other side of the galaxy (let alone the universe) in our lifetimes, if God wants us to know he will tell us. No way we can find out that by our five senses. And frankly, I don't know if we need to know. Plenty of things to get right on this planet before we find another to wreak havoc upon.
I'm not anti-exploration and have a very inquisitive nature. I am grateful for the inquisitiveness of others that has brought so many advances in our society in the material beenfits we enjoy, eg, in medicine and things to stuff into our houses. Many things are a spin-off from space programs (eg, Teflon!).
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GarthP2000
Well Twinky, I'll feel free to _not_ apologize. And I'll tell ya the following reasons why:
1) What I posted comes nowhere near any 'face melting' by Craig and Co., and I've heard him do some pretty mean face meltings, even in my days in da Way. What I posted here is pretty much standard fare coming from anybody voicing astonishment and disagreement to an outrageous idea, be it on the internet, in the Letters to the Editor section of any newspaper, people calling in to radio stations, etc. ... Ie., its called voicing an opposing opinion. ((Ooopsie! I hope my using the bold font didn't 'melt your face' too much. <_< ))
2) Related to point 1, what I am responding to are the concepts of "Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us.", and for that I make NO apologies nor retractions. I find the ideas behind those statements totally revolting and are _far_ more compatible with Craig and his 'face meltings' than you might realize. As a matter of fact, people like LCM and VPW do not like to have their ideas criticized and talked back to, and believe you me, if I talked to them like I just talked to you, _they_ would be the ones trying to 'melt my face'.
So you might want to re-evaluate your position because, 1) disagreements like the one we're having are part and parcel of the real world (so get used to it), and 2) being told to apologize for openly responding to what I think of the phrases like "'Who am I to argue.' ... 'If he wants us to know, he can tell us.'" eerily resemble TWI and other 'face melting' groups, ... and a lot more than you might realize.
I stand behind what I say.
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waysider
This is slightly---
Here is something I have posted before related to the space program.
http://www.thespaceplace.com/nasa/spinoffs.html
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GarthP2000
I'll add something else.
Sure we are. Via the scientific method of discovery and invention, we are building up a means towards getting to the other side of the galaxy in good time. It no doubt won't be in our lifetimes, but it will occur, and that by means of the scientific method based on reason, discovery, and the like, ... all of which takes the usage of our five senses, ... and our brain.(Just can't stop, can I? ;) )
Then perhaps a good idea is to venture into the wonderful world of critical thinking anyway, full bore. I kid you not when I apply the words 'wonderful world' to the practice of critical thinking, because it (as you no doubt have discovered already) opens up new vistas to wonder, new things, ... and freedom. Such freedom that TWI and Co could never aspire to, and since they don't want it, they don't know what they are missing! :)
Here's a suggestion. Venture even more into critical thinking anyway, cause you know it'll .... TWI off.
Ahhh yes. 'thinking carnally', 'using your five senses', and all done to spit in TWI's eye and let them know that you're not gonna goosestep to their s**t anymore.
See, that's why phrases like "Who am I to argue." ... "If he wants us to know, he can tell us." annoy folks like me. Because concepts like that have the effect of poo-pooing critical thinking. Of asking the questions that a lot of people don't bother to ask, perhaps because a good number of them feel that it isn't their place to ask. To venture into areas of knowledge that are (supposedly) outside of human understanding. ... I am quite thankful that there have been, and are more still, people who disregard that 'know your place' idiotology. (<--- no, that is not a typo)
To be clear, I am not mad at you. I am, however, ticked off at the concepts behind the phrases you brought up.
And thus my responses.
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