What measurement criteria are you using when you ask if they are bigger? Money, number of followers, actively selling the product or what?
I think that all of the above are related, but the most important for me is the number of followers, of disciples in term of what LCM thought, on daily basis. Run fellowships, classes, win new ones.
But John Lynn and John W. Schoenheit are working and producing a lot of things and CES/STFI have more than 20 years of hard work maybe they are bigger than TWI at this moment?
The answer is probably not bigger, but similar. Through some serious missteps in the 90s through 2006 they lost many of the TWI people who wanted a similar experience without the crazy. The outreach is very much entrenched in TWI methods (a "class"), and since there is an internet, the element of surprise is gone. JAL, in particular, sees STF as being a haven for people who have left TWI, so the entire concept of a seeker type outreach is simply not there.
I sincerely doubt if there are more than 5000 on the mailing/email list as the list was only slightly higher than that after the big exodus from twi in 1987, and numbers had decreased, not increased (at least through 2004). I doubt if the "partnership" program exceeds 600 members.
One thing you can be sure of is unless it's something to boast about, you're not going to get any exact numbers from them. My information is only accurate through 2004.
Many years had gone since the Fog Years, also L. Crag Martindale has many years outside TWI, many said that the size of TWI is just 10 % of what it use to be in its best years. Rosale F. Riverbark is not a good teacher like VPW or LCM.
But John Lynn and John W. Schoenheit are working and producing a lot of things and CES/STFI have more than 20 years of hard work maybe they are bigger than TWI at this moment?
CES and Spirt of truth fellowship have much much (a thousand times much) better internet outreach. They are on youtube, myspace, facebook and only God knows how many other zillion places on the web. TWI has no myspace, no facebook, no youtube that I know of. Are people who are committed to the Way even allowed to use the internet? That is all I can go by is the internet since I have no other information.
CES and Spirt of truth fellowship have much much (a thousand times much) better internet outreach. They are on youtube, myspace, facebook and only God knows how many other zillion places on the web. TWI has no myspace, no facebook, no youtube that I know of. Are people who are committed to the Way even allowed to use the internet? That is all I can go by is the internet since I have no other information.
TWI has a FB presence. It isn't open. Early on someone was ejected from the group who raised questions.
CES/STF has an internet presence on those venues because they are free and those sites (used to) cater to the younger crowd. Much of their outreach venues cater to younger people. In the beginning, there was an inherent distrust of the internet, because any kind of open forum, such as GS, always disintegrated into flame wars and the board simply didn't trust the idea of using volunteer moderators or (gasp) actually allowing the free-flow exchange of competing ideas. When I was involved, JB wanted a place that would be used to attract and provide "meeting" space for younger people. He wanted to use my Biblical Unitarian site. I didn't want that domain used for that purpose, but I was amenable to CES putting up unitarian articles, providing the site was not simply a mouthpiece for CES. As is evident, that didn't happen, but that's another story.
When I left in 2004, MySpace was in its infancy and there was no Facebook at that time, but the younger people in the home office would be very inclined to gravitate towards those venues providing a place for "like-minded believers," based upon what I know about them. For the older crowd, the internet was an afterthought. They were still very driven by print and mail when I was there, preferring to sell CD's and books rather than make things downloadable (and therefore free). I see they are doing it now, but if I had my way, they would've been doing it back in the '90s.
Yes, with the WRITTEN understanding that it would stay true to my wishes. Yes, I got that in writing even though they were "shocked" that I, a fellow sister in Christ, could not take their handshake as being good enough. Heck, putting it in a contract wasn't sufficient. This is one of the many reasons why I have no use for them.
Amazing but not overly surprising that they would be "shocked" that your requirements be written. I think they're surprised when anyone doesn't just take them at their word, and yes, my most recent info for them only goes up to 2004. We may know each other.
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Rejoice
What measurement criteria are you using when you ask if they are bigger? Money, number of followers, actively selling the product or what?
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themex
I think that all of the above are related, but the most important for me is the number of followers, of disciples in term of what LCM thought, on daily basis. Run fellowships, classes, win new ones.
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cheranne
All I know is that if they are still teaching the same wrong doctrine it is just one big hamster wheel
going nowhere.
Check yourself before you wreck yourself I would hate to see you get hurt(thinking your learning truth
and ends up a mirage in the desert of life!)
Just know this brother you don't have to jump through ANY hoops.Jesus came to accept you just as you are
without money or with it,without classes ,buttons or stars on your hat.
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Tzaia
The answer is probably not bigger, but similar. Through some serious missteps in the 90s through 2006 they lost many of the TWI people who wanted a similar experience without the crazy. The outreach is very much entrenched in TWI methods (a "class"), and since there is an internet, the element of surprise is gone. JAL, in particular, sees STF as being a haven for people who have left TWI, so the entire concept of a seeker type outreach is simply not there.
I sincerely doubt if there are more than 5000 on the mailing/email list as the list was only slightly higher than that after the big exodus from twi in 1987, and numbers had decreased, not increased (at least through 2004). I doubt if the "partnership" program exceeds 600 members.
One thing you can be sure of is unless it's something to boast about, you're not going to get any exact numbers from them. My information is only accurate through 2004.
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Bolshevik
young folks in twi have been chewed out for daring to wonder . . .
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tagalong
CES and Spirt of truth fellowship have much much (a thousand times much) better internet outreach. They are on youtube, myspace, facebook and only God knows how many other zillion places on the web. TWI has no myspace, no facebook, no youtube that I know of. Are people who are committed to the Way even allowed to use the internet? That is all I can go by is the internet since I have no other information.
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Tzaia
TWI has a FB presence. It isn't open. Early on someone was ejected from the group who raised questions.
CES/STF has an internet presence on those venues because they are free and those sites (used to) cater to the younger crowd. Much of their outreach venues cater to younger people. In the beginning, there was an inherent distrust of the internet, because any kind of open forum, such as GS, always disintegrated into flame wars and the board simply didn't trust the idea of using volunteer moderators or (gasp) actually allowing the free-flow exchange of competing ideas. When I was involved, JB wanted a place that would be used to attract and provide "meeting" space for younger people. He wanted to use my Biblical Unitarian site. I didn't want that domain used for that purpose, but I was amenable to CES putting up unitarian articles, providing the site was not simply a mouthpiece for CES. As is evident, that didn't happen, but that's another story.
When I left in 2004, MySpace was in its infancy and there was no Facebook at that time, but the younger people in the home office would be very inclined to gravitate towards those venues providing a place for "like-minded believers," based upon what I know about them. For the older crowd, the internet was an afterthought. They were still very driven by print and mail when I was there, preferring to sell CD's and books rather than make things downloadable (and therefore free). I see they are doing it now, but if I had my way, they would've been doing it back in the '90s.
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GarthP2000
Tzaia,
So did CES buy the domain name from you?
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Tzaia
Yes, with the WRITTEN understanding that it would stay true to my wishes. Yes, I got that in writing even though they were "shocked" that I, a fellow sister in Christ, could not take their handshake as being good enough. Heck, putting it in a contract wasn't sufficient. This is one of the many reasons why I have no use for them.
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batcave
Amazing but not overly surprising that they would be "shocked" that your requirements be written. I think they're surprised when anyone doesn't just take them at their word, and yes, my most recent info for them only goes up to 2004. We may know each other.
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Ham
After the current situation "resolves itself".. I would put my money on twi being a heck of a lot larger..
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