Here's a clue that puts a BIG question above the credibility of these "truths 'bout hell":
Creflo Dollar
Yup, that's who that preacher is. The man who preaches the Prosperity Gospel of '$$ Money Loves My Pocket $$'. <_< The man that teaches that he, as a preacher, is ordained by Gawd-a to get rich off of your tithes and offerings. ... And I'd be willing that he pushes that "truth 'bout hell" on those who are reluctant to give their tithes and offerings that go straight into his pocket.
The thing I can't handle are these song-and-dance con artists who put people in fear in order to get money in their pockets.
Already been done. Sunnydale sat on the Hellmouth, but luckily Spike blew it closed with his fancy necklace. Though rumor has it another Hellmouth exists in Cleveland.
I do not think it matters as much who Creflo is as what he says.
Where is wordwolf?
Did the fallen angels have sex with women and produce giants back before Noah?
Are the gates of hell a place on earth leading to a place "in" the earth"?
The guy Victor Russian dude -- who was he? And could the sound of 2000 degree "belly of the earth" make those kinds of noise? Did anyone ever check the noises to see if it was screams or the roar of heat on a microphone?
And even if the tape is not really "hell"
Are demons a product of devils having sex with humans? I thought there was emnity put between HIS seed and ours so that would not happen.
No one has ever dug all the way to where I reign over the dark side. It is not 2000F - it is much toastier - and I might add much more comfortable at 8000F (about the surface of the sun). Now if I could only get rid of that b@st@rd who claims to be god I'd be able to make some real headway into turning the world the way I'd like to see it.
Oh - and if you are really an evil sinner - I will not let you in hell - I will consign your eternity to New Knoxville, Ohio
Any theory that has to do with endless conscious torture misses the whole point of the Bible. For anyone to survive endless torture, God would have to grant them eternal life, since man is not inherently immortal. Only God is immortal and the gift of God is eternal life, given to those who confess Jesus as Lord.
The confusion comes largely from the fact that the word "hell" the in KJV can be the translation of one of three Greek words:
g'henna, the lake of fire where the wicked will be destroyed
hades, the unconscious state of the dead to which everyone goes
tartaros, the pit where the wicked angels from Genesis 6 are imprisoned
It's also relevant that the Lake of Fire is in the future. It does not exist now, underground or anywhere else.
It's also relevant that the Lake of Fire is in the future. It does not exist now, underground or anywhere else.
Dream on Bro' - I own a nice piece of real estate that makes your KJV version(s) of "hell" look like picnic ground(s)...Come little kiddies - I have special treats for you.
For a nice guy you sure play a good meanie. :unsure:
Mark - So, you are saying to be tortured forever you have to live forever and therefore have "eternal life" which God does not give anyone but believers. Then would eternal damnation truly just be seperated from God --- by non existance?
Mark - So, you are saying to be tortured forever you have to live forever and therefore have "eternal life" which God does not give anyone but believers. Then would eternal damnation truly just be seperated from God --- by non existance?
Exactly. The Bible says repeatedly that the wicked will be destroyed, not endlessly tortured. And there are other very straightforward verses, such as, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23), and "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (I John 5:12). The Bible is really simple when we don't allow man-made ideas to complicate it.
It's the oldest sales technique in the world. The "carrot and stick"
Offer on one hand a land of milk and honey and everything sunny - for those that unflinchingly give obeisance to your doctrine. And on the other hand threaten to boil them in oil if they ever even consider that what you're pitching isn't the whole truth.
And in the final analysis what do you really have to support any of it? Nuttin'
But hey, if you're scared enough not to check, you may just continue to buy the bullchit. That's religion's bet...
It's the oldest sales technique in the world. The "carrot and stick"
Offer on one hand a land of milk and honey and everything sunny - for those that unflinchingly give obeisance to your doctrine. And on the other hand threaten to boil them in oil if they ever even consider that what you're pitching isn't the whole truth.
And in the final analysis what do you really have to support any of it? Nuttin'
But hey, if you're scared enough not to check, you may just continue to buy the bullchit. That's religion's bet...
Exactly. The Bible says repeatedly that the wicked will be destroyed, not endlessly tortured. And there are other very straightforward verses, such as, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23), and "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (I John 5:12). The Bible is really simple when we don't allow man-made ideas to complicate it.
But some say that this "death" is just separation from the True God, not "death" as we define it located in the flesh realms. The fact that man's spirit died on the day they sinned, simply means that the connection point to God died. It doesn't mean that it ceased to be eternal. When we got born again, it was that connection point that got reestablished via the Holy Spirit.
It's the oldest sales technique in the world. The "carrot and stick"
Offer on one hand a land of milk and honey and everything sunny - for those that unflinchingly give obeisance to your doctrine. And on the other hand threaten to boil them in oil if they ever even consider that what you're pitching isn't the whole truth.
And in the final analysis what do you really have to support any of it? Nuttin'
But hey, if you're scared enough not to check, you may just continue to buy the bullchit. That's religion's bet...
Ignore religion, and you can enjoy your short existence. Buy into religion, and you wast precious time. . .
Did any of you listen to the SOUND of people screaming in hell? Do you think it was just "open" mike noise?
I listened to it. There is no way to tell from listening to the recording, what, if anything extraneous to the microphone itself, is causing the sound. For that matter, there is no way to even verify the origin of the recording, unless someone did some actual scientific study to identify the various wavelengths, etc. The suggestible, visual portrayal by actors certainly lends itself to suspicion of the speakers' intent. I did find it interesting that the speaker employed a little "thought modification" technique that Wierwille was fond of. ("If I tell you what I know about this, you may not believe me." or as Wierwille said, "It'll blow your mind!") By doing this, he creates a desire to WANT to believe. Wierwille was quite adept at this ploy and used it frequently in the foundational and advanced classes. Tape of no tape, this guy is clearly cut from the same bolt of cloth as VP.
"Ladies and gentlemen, it's a DISGRACE to have been in this fellowship of gnashing teeth this evening!!" :P
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Dot Matrix
Here is what some people said -- one is pretty funny
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/archi...hp/t-38234.html
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GarthP2000
Here's a clue that puts a BIG question above the credibility of these "truths 'bout hell":
Creflo Dollar
Yup, that's who that preacher is. The man who preaches the Prosperity Gospel of '$$ Money Loves My Pocket $$'. <_< The man that teaches that he, as a preacher, is ordained by Gawd-a to get rich off of your tithes and offerings. ... And I'd be willing that he pushes that "truth 'bout hell" on those who are reluctant to give their tithes and offerings that go straight into his pocket.
The thing I can't handle are these song-and-dance con artists who put people in fear in order to get money in their pockets.
That would be _my_ version of hell.
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Dot Matrix
:)
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Bramble
Already been done. Sunnydale sat on the Hellmouth, but luckily Spike blew it closed with his fancy necklace. Though rumor has it another Hellmouth exists in Cleveland.
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Dot Matrix
?
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doojable
Does anyone really believe that Hell exists deep in the earth's core?
I think Hell is a cornfield in Ohio...
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waysider
Hellmouth and Buffy The Vampire Slayer
Cleveland isn't a Hellmouth, it's the Devil's armpit.
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Dot Matrix
I do not think it matters as much who Creflo is as what he says.
Where is wordwolf?
Did the fallen angels have sex with women and produce giants back before Noah?
Are the gates of hell a place on earth leading to a place "in" the earth"?
The guy Victor Russian dude -- who was he? And could the sound of 2000 degree "belly of the earth" make those kinds of noise? Did anyone ever check the noises to see if it was screams or the roar of heat on a microphone?
And even if the tape is not really "hell"
Are demons a product of devils having sex with humans? I thought there was emnity put between HIS seed and ours so that would not happen.
Waysider - thanks
Dooj -- those are my questions as well...
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RumRunner
Let me clarify a bit. The whole thing is BS.
No one has ever dug all the way to where I reign over the dark side. It is not 2000F - it is much toastier - and I might add much more comfortable at 8000F (about the surface of the sun). Now if I could only get rid of that b@st@rd who claims to be god I'd be able to make some real headway into turning the world the way I'd like to see it.
Oh - and if you are really an evil sinner - I will not let you in hell - I will consign your eternity to New Knoxville, Ohio
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Mark Clarke
Any theory that has to do with endless conscious torture misses the whole point of the Bible. For anyone to survive endless torture, God would have to grant them eternal life, since man is not inherently immortal. Only God is immortal and the gift of God is eternal life, given to those who confess Jesus as Lord.
The confusion comes largely from the fact that the word "hell" the in KJV can be the translation of one of three Greek words:
It's also relevant that the Lake of Fire is in the future. It does not exist now, underground or anywhere else.
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RumRunner
Dream on Bro' - I own a nice piece of real estate that makes your KJV version(s) of "hell" look like picnic ground(s)...Come little kiddies - I have special treats for you.
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Dot Matrix
Geez Rummie
For a nice guy you sure play a good meanie. :unsure:
Mark - So, you are saying to be tortured forever you have to live forever and therefore have "eternal life" which God does not give anyone but believers. Then would eternal damnation truly just be seperated from God --- by non existance?
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Mark Clarke
Exactly. The Bible says repeatedly that the wicked will be destroyed, not endlessly tortured. And there are other very straightforward verses, such as, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 6:23), and "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life" (I John 5:12). The Bible is really simple when we don't allow man-made ideas to complicate it.
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George Aar
It's the oldest sales technique in the world. The "carrot and stick"
Offer on one hand a land of milk and honey and everything sunny - for those that unflinchingly give obeisance to your doctrine. And on the other hand threaten to boil them in oil if they ever even consider that what you're pitching isn't the whole truth.
And in the final analysis what do you really have to support any of it? Nuttin'
But hey, if you're scared enough not to check, you may just continue to buy the bullchit. That's religion's bet...
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RumRunner
Dude!!! don't wreck my schtick
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brideofjc
But some say that this "death" is just separation from the True God, not "death" as we define it located in the flesh realms. The fact that man's spirit died on the day they sinned, simply means that the connection point to God died. It doesn't mean that it ceased to be eternal. When we got born again, it was that connection point that got reestablished via the Holy Spirit.
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Bolshevik
Ignore religion, and you can enjoy your short existence. Buy into religion, and you wast precious time. . .
Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.
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GarthP2000
... now if *that* isn't one helluva K-Mart Blue Light Special, I don't know what is!
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Bolshevik
What do you mean by that? I don't get it?
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cman
Placing things, including hell, in the future as well as many other good things, at one's own will is foolish and misleading.
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Bolshevik
okay, so I found these definitions:
1) An area of a KMart store where items are on sale
2) A white trash and slutty girl
and
Used in reference to a member of law enforcement. Specifically when located in their vehicle.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?...e+Light+Special
I assume you didn't mean #2
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Dot Matrix
Did any of you listen to the SOUND of people screaming in hell? Do you think it was just "open" mike noise?
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doojable
I thought it sounded fake.
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waysider
I listened to it. There is no way to tell from listening to the recording, what, if anything extraneous to the microphone itself, is causing the sound. For that matter, there is no way to even verify the origin of the recording, unless someone did some actual scientific study to identify the various wavelengths, etc. The suggestible, visual portrayal by actors certainly lends itself to suspicion of the speakers' intent. I did find it interesting that the speaker employed a little "thought modification" technique that Wierwille was fond of. ("If I tell you what I know about this, you may not believe me." or as Wierwille said, "It'll blow your mind!") By doing this, he creates a desire to WANT to believe. Wierwille was quite adept at this ploy and used it frequently in the foundational and advanced classes. Tape of no tape, this guy is clearly cut from the same bolt of cloth as VP.
"Ladies and gentlemen, it's a DISGRACE to have been in this fellowship of gnashing teeth this evening!!" :P
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