Brainfixed, Bolsh, and anyone else here who grew up in the twi camps...
I understand your outrage at all the wrongs you grew up around. Please...PLEASE... take all the time you need to work out that outrage, but also be aware that there will be a time for that outrage to find a smaller place in your life.
I'm not one of those "just get over it" folks who think you just need to move on and shut up. I think it's healthy to talk things out and get input, advice, perspective.
However, I have seen how, if you're not careful, the talking and writing and reading are no longer helpful - but actually cause a greater hindrance. It's too easy to read some new story of abuse and all of a sudden your own anger is stoked as if the abuse had happened to you. In some ways it can be as if just reading some of the stories here does more harm than help.
Take all the time you need. Then recognize that there is life outside and away from your computer screen and a world that never heard of twi - and go live that life in that world. Then when you return, you may again feel outrage - but it won't have the same hold on you.
the funny thing is that i became a member here to join in the "easy" discussions like in the silly forum or the song discussion, but then i started talking about me and how i had begun to understand some things and now look at where i'm at still. i honestly thought i was through my anger and onto the healing until i actually participated here instead of just read. it's like some missing part of therapy has finally been found and the leaching out has finally begun. and you are right doojable that just when i think i'm done with it all somebody says something and it all wells up again inside of me and feels like i must get it out before it consumes me, but i haven't been doing this for very long so i think i'm ok and don't need to be worried yet. i went 4 days last week without writing anything here, so i'm good aren't i?
But, the people. . . . as flawed and broken as some were. . . were not all bad.
Good people in a bad system is actually one of the worst things about the whole deal. It keeps the allure going to stay. These good people are basically peer pressured into actions that are not good by the corruptness inherent in the system, through fear, peer pressure, and control. Everyone changes their actions to please the top cheese w/r to themselves. They divulge things about their lives that allow control not freedom. And as you traverse the 8 layers of leadership in TWI, with each layer comes more control and more temptation. Outlyers are eliminated. Lies are promulgated. Leaders 4, 5 layers up have tremendous pressure to keep their jobs, so will lie and throw someone under a bus in a heartbeat. Bribery is the currency traded, whether of physical goods, or emotional compliance or both. Even the good people develop an elitist attitude as a Christian. It's what they are taught, by example and words. An elitist attitude mixed up with poor to mediocre caliber action. They lie to themselves - you can read about it in I John 1. That's what they do.
There are better people living in the neighborhoods we live in, going to the churches in the communities we live in, working at the jobs we do. More heart, more inherent moral standard to help someone they know.
Make new friends. You'll be happier. You don't have to lose all your old ones. But just make new ones.
the funny thing is that i became a member here to join in the "easy" discussions like in the silly forum or the song discussion, but then i started talking about me and how i had begun to understand some things and now look at where i'm at still. i honestly thought i was through my anger and onto the healing until i actually participated here instead of just read. it's like some missing part of therapy has finally been found and the leaching out has finally begun. and you are right doojable that just when i think i'm done with it all somebody says something and it all wells up again inside of me and feels like i must get it out before it consumes me, but i haven't been doing this for very long so i think i'm ok and don't need to be worried yet. i went 4 days last week without writing anything here, so i'm good aren't i?
First off brainfixed I have to tell you. . . I tapped my daughter once on a very padded nappy and promptly burst into tears. She in turn just looked at me then continued on her way. That was our one and only experience with the wooden spoon.
I truly never saw anyone beat their child with a wooden spoon or belittle them in a public setting. I was around many parents and children. That is not to say it didn't happen, but not anywhere I ever lived. . . . that I witnessed. . . .
You know, TWI wasn't a church, or a social group, or a nice little bible ministry gone bad. . . it was actually a cult.
There are some interesting studies done about what happened to those of us involved in TWI. In fact, there is a thread around here called. . .
If I knew how to link to it I would, but you can do a search on "Snapping" and easily find it. I think that Waysider brought it up once on another thread called Snapping.
It might help you to understand that your mom. . . was actually a victim too. It may seem like she made all her own choices. . . it might be an interesting consideration to learn what might have happened to her in TWI.
I am not so sure your mom would have been the same had she joined another church or participated in another ministry.
It is quite a reaction to talk about hurling. . . or vomiting out your eyes. . . or beating Jesus in the face. . . it really might be helpful to get some more information on what took place in your Mom's head. Maybe it will help you look at her with a bit more understanding. . . and work through some of your anger.
I read your responses to Roy in the doctrinal forum. . . seems you have great capacity for understanding the human condition. . . .
the funny thing is that i became a member here to join in the "easy" discussions like in the silly forum or the song discussion, but then i started talking about me and how i had begun to understand some things and now look at where i'm at still. i honestly thought i was through my anger and onto the healing until i actually participated here instead of just read. it's like some missing part of therapy has finally been found and the leaching out has finally begun. and you are right doojable that just when i think i'm done with it all somebody says something and it all wells up again inside of me and feels like i must get it out before it consumes me, but i haven't been doing this for very long so i think i'm ok and don't need to be worried yet. i went 4 days last week without writing anything here, so i'm good aren't i?
Like I said, just don't let "their stories" (as in anyone else's stories) become YOUR stories.
I used to keep a journal during a difficult time in my younger life. I had to stop. I found that I could start off the day feeling fine. Then I would write a few pages and get myself angry and/or depressed just by what I had written. It was as if I became my own abuser. I realized that if I wasn't careful, I'd get myself stuck in the same ruts over and over again.
I wouldn't advise you to stop talking about twi, but I would suggest that every hour spent doing something YOU want to do is another hour you gain your freedom from the cult.
What sound advice. . . I thank you. I have taken it onboard and despite my verbose responses in this paticular thread. . . . I have moved on in my life.
In fact, it is very ironic that I find myself advocating a position that can be percieved as defending TWI.
But here is the thing. . . .and there is no real way to get around this. . . you and I and the others who post here make up what was once TWI. We are actually the people being discussed.
And although I have had to really evaluate my time in TWI with the harsh light of current reality shinning on a large portion of my past. . . I have been able to make peace with it on some level. That is why I can look at those I knew with some manner of understanding.
If I judge them solely based on the facade of Waythink. . . I must do that with myself. . . or I am a hypocrite. I was more than TWI. . . lost for a time, but still more. . . . . I still retained a shadow of myself while I was in TWI. Others did as well.
If I write off all those I knew as bad. . . because of some actions. . . .I judge every prayer, good deed, and moment of kindness given. I don't have that kind of vision or perception.
Like I keep saying. . . we were all tricked. . . but not all bad.
ok i get it to not hang out here and write and read to the point that everything else i do suffers and i become hooked into here like i was back in the way or something, and i get it that you guys have got my best interests at heart, and i get it that there were a few people that never saw abuse in the way. but i have to say that this repeated "encouragement" to do something else right now feels alot like "exhortation" in the way. i'm not stupid and i'm not broken beyond ability to think for myself and make my own choices. and i never said things like "vomiting out my eyes" or "beating jesus in the face" and those things are just twisted of what i really did say and that bothers me a whole lot, and it also bothers me that so what if i did say such things anyway? if that's my reaction to what happened to me in the way then so what? what happened to me in the way was bad very bad and if i want to describe it with strong words that give a mental picture of how bad then so what? thanks for your concern and your help, but please remember that i am not a child any longer and that i am under professional care and that i have managed my own life pretty darned good to before participating here so i will most likely manage it pretty darned good long after participating here.
ok i get it to not hang out here and write and read to the point that everything else i do suffers and i become hooked into here like i was back in the way or something, and i get it that you guys have got my best interests at heart, and i get it that there were a few people that never saw abuse in the way. but i have to say that this repeated "encouragement" to do something else right now feels alot like "exhortation" in the way.
Understood. I made my first post to more than one poster and then let it become specific. I apologize. No more advice.
ok i get it to not hang out here and write and read to the point that everything else i do suffers and i become hooked into here like i was back in the way or something, and i get it that you guys have got my best interests at heart, and i get it that there were a few people that never saw abuse in the way. but i have to say that this repeated "encouragement" to do something else right now feels alot like "exhortation" in the way. i'm not stupid and i'm not broken beyond ability to think for myself and make my own choices. and i never said things like "vomiting out my eyes" or "beating jesus in the face" and those things are just twisted of what i really did say and that bothers me a whole lot, and it also bothers me that so what if i did say such things anyway? if that's my reaction to what happened to me in the way then so what? what happened to me in the way was bad very bad and if i want to describe it with strong words that give a mental picture of how bad then so what? thanks for your concern and your help, but please remember that i am not a child any longer and that i am under professional care and that i have managed my own life pretty darned good to before participating here so i will most likely manage it pretty darned good long after participating here.
Well, I never said I didn't see abuse in the Way. . . I saw plently. I just said I never saw a kid beaten with a spoon. Just because I don't tell each and every horrible thing that happened to me . . . . doesn't mean they didn't happen.
It was vomit out your brain. . . not eyes. . . and it was punch "this" Christ in the face and go back again. . . sorry I misquoted you.
"so what exactly can i do with what i know besides vomit it out of my brain and do what i can to heal? and i'd like to meet this "christ" that would ask such an inane question of people so horribly abused in the name of "god" because i feel like punching him right in the mouth as many times as i could until i was worn out and then get my breath and start in again"
Your right. . . your choice of expression is your own. . . and yes. . . please enjoy your time here. . . sorry if I upset you.
ok i get it to not hang out here and write and read to the point that everything else i do suffers and i become hooked into here like i was back in the way or something, and i get it that you guys have got my best interests at heart, and i get it that there were a few people that never saw abuse in the way. but i have to say that this repeated "encouragement" to do something else right now feels alot like "exhortation" in the way. i'm not stupid and i'm not broken beyond ability to think for myself and make my own choices. and i never said things like "vomiting out my eyes" or "beating jesus in the face" and those things are just twisted of what i really did say and that bothers me a whole lot, and it also bothers me that so what if i did say such things anyway? if that's my reaction to what happened to me in the way then so what? what happened to me in the way was bad very bad and if i want to describe it with strong words that give a mental picture of how bad then so what? thanks for your concern and your help, but please remember that i am not a child any longer and that i am under professional care and that i have managed my own life pretty darned good to before participating here so i will most likely manage it pretty darned good long after participating here.
I think you're doing just fine. we all process this stuff differently. I myself had to take a "total immersion" approach and embrace my anger... I guess one could say I'd cut part of myself off and locked it away in my head, and all the hurt and anger with it, and reintegrating was really hard and has taken years and I'm still not done. after years of therapy, I think I managed to get to a place where I'm as mentally healthy as I was before I got tangled up in twi, and thanks to some recent developments I'm looking forward to growing beyond that.
when I first got here, it was the people who described things in strong terms that helped me the most to realize how bad it actually was, and that I'd better stop excusing what was done to me. that realization helped me leave twi when I was too scared to. the kindness of people like excathedra, doojable, bowtwi, belle, dmiller, rumrunner, and many others were so vital to my survival that I'm not sure I can actually describe how indebted I am to them. I was a right mess back then :)
but that's why I'm not so concerned with the good times in twi. every memory of twi has pain associated with it. maybe someday it won't, but that doesn't really matter... I just I hope I don't ever lull myself into forgetting the bad and idealizing the good so that I can't hear a brother or sister's pain.
this stuff is more than just difficult to comprehend and talk about and interact in a way that we aren't face to face so i see how things can get touch and go with how to interact with people. i come on strong here in writing but in my head i am speaking quietly and calmly and really pretty much matter of factly, but how can anybody know that just by reading what i am writing? they can't so i will learn that i might have to come back a few times to express myself with more detail or explanation, but in my everyday "real" life i am easily understood and easily express myself because even if my words are strong and overly descriptive i am right there and my voice is well modulated and my expressions and body language show the hearer that i am not angry or being forceful but am just discussing things. in fact one of the things my therapist has to get me to work on is showing emotion of any sort when discussing things, so i think i can tell him or her that maybe if i just write things like i'm on here and then maybe read them back to him or her i can find my way to speaking as passionately as i'm writing here?
just to make things a little more clear if they can be made so at this point, what i meant when i said "vomit it out of my brain" was not that i wanted to vomit from my brain but that i wanted to let all the way stuff in my brain come out and because the way stuff in my brain is poison then it would be like vomitting as in "spewing" which is pretty descriptive of how things are coming out for me when i write here. and when i said "i'd like to meet this "christ"" i put christ in "" to show that i don't think it would be the actual christ that would ask such a question, so it wasn't like i felt like i wanted to punch jesus in the mouth but that i felt like i wanted to punch any false christ in the mouth, and i didn't say i would do such a thing or even wanted to do such a thing, but that it made me feel that way, so when i talk about how things make me feel i'm not talking about just because i feel that way then i'm going to go out and do something like that! i do have more self control than to act out such things just because i feel a certain thing. and i don't shun advice, but i do get a bit pi$$y if it's said over and over again, but i do get it when people are just trying to help.
but i do get a bit pi$$y if it's said over and over again
There are plenty of people who still have their pulpits - just moved them from TWI or some other group to here. Even those who adamantly are against TWI (etc) often still sound and say things like they are still in the belief system just not the organization. You'll begin to recognize certain posters who have the pat (and usually same) "answer" for everything. They are still preaching; in text is all. On the one hand it is rather boorish of them - on the other hand there are no restrictions for their posts on this site. Kind of like watching TV with the remote...ya gotta switch channels when you get a commercial.
Yes I am certain that most, even the most annoyingly repetitive and robotic "sounding" posters probably mean well - but your point is well taken - you live your life - no doubt you've had quite enough pseudo-christian advice floated your way.
Else...you'll end up like me...and complete cynic...of course I happen to think that has its entertainment value for me.
There are plenty of people who still have their pulpits - just moved them from TWI or some other group to here. Even those who adamantly are against TWI (etc) often still sound and say things like they are still in the belief system just not the organization. You'll begin to recognize certain posters who have the pat (and usually same) "answer" for everything. They are still preaching; in text is all. On the one hand it is rather boorish of them - on the other hand there are no restrictions for their posts on this site. Kind of like watching TV with the remote...ya gotta switch channels when you get a commercial.
I can't think of anyone specific on GS posting currently that fits that description RumRunner.
I can't think of anyone specific on GS posting currently that fits that description RumRunner.
Can you?
If I couldn't think of anyone specific I would not have posted that. Actually I can think of several but I am certainly not going to post names because A) it is poor manners at best to do so and B) naming names would only be foisting my viewpoint of certain people by name onto Brainfixed who has made it clear that he/she is not interested in all manner of advice. Brainfixed will see them on his/her own, or not, or ignore me. Either way it is no big deal to me.
i know i have the most posts on greasespot sad. could be because i'm the most screwed up or one who needs to talk or oh hell i don't know. even being called the "patron saint of sexual abuse" hasn't stopped me. scarey eh?
but thinking about grieving -- not being allowed to -- is something i really understand
the death of a loved one, the death of one's childhood, one's soul......
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner.
Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to understand your point here, but your implication or accusation or criticism, or whatever it is, is so vague and veiled that I'm not certain what you mean.
I could guess at what you're trying to say, but that leads to nowhere but miscommunication. I'd rather hear you explain it straight out and specifically.
You'll begin to recognize certain posters who have the pat (and usually same) "answer" for everything......Even those who adamantly are against TWI (etc) often still sound and say things like they are still in the belief system just not the organization.
I don't mean to give you a hard time RumRunner, I'm just confused and maybe one or two others are too, as Linda Z sez. I don't see anyone doing that. Here. Now.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner.
Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to understand your point here, but your implication or accusation or criticism, or whatever it is, is so vague and veiled that I'm not certain what you mean.
I could guess at what you're trying to say, but that leads to nowhere but miscommunication. I'd rather hear you explain it straight out and specifically.
Linda you need to re-read my post and untwist the knot in those panty hose. I gave examples without giving names - per your post-suggestion however - face it - if I gave examples of posts then the names (S/Ns at least) are revealed. I'm a little beyond that thank you. Brainfixed can see it on his/her own, not see it, or ignore me. Either way my evening marguerita tastes fine thanks.
I accused no one. I implied no one. I pointedly stated that some people still have their pulpits. Brainfixed made it clear he/she was not interested in what sounded like "way exhortation." That is not veiled and neither was my response. It was about as plain as Dick, Jane and Sally - oh don't forget Spot.
But here is the thing. . . .and there is no real way to get around this. . . you and I and the others who post here make up what was once TWI. We are actually the people being discussed.
Yes. Sucks, doesn't it. Now I didn't do any of the predatorial sexual abuse stuff, but I supported a system financially, emotionally, and in leadership that was corrupt. I acted elitist as a Christian, I acted controlling because I followed example, I did all of that. I was a fool. I hurt people including my own family by my pride.
All I can say is not anymore. Ever again. Once burned, shame on them. If I go to sleep and allow it a second time, shame on me.
I'm not saying don't keep ties to innies. Or 'get over it'. Or anything like that. Now personally I see the vomit-inducing elitism of 99.5% of innies even when they are trying not to be that way. And I have found that once I dropped my pride, I've found better Christians in almost any walk of life I've chosen. Neighbors, co-workers, hobbyists. Hell you could throw a stone from any given street corner and find a person with a better heart than 99.5% of TWI delusional idiots. So yes, find new friends. They are better than old friends. Of course, there may be a couple exeptions you find. But most of the old friends I've found really weren't, and only cared due to association or attached to the ulterior motives in the group.
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Tzaia
There were no "good" times. There were a few good people, but even my first visit - a branch meeting - was not what I would call "good". Overwhelming - yes. I was told it would cost at least a dollar
Linda Z
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner. Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to und
potato
I'm glad vpw is dead.
doojable
Brainfixed, Bolsh, and anyone else here who grew up in the twi camps...
I understand your outrage at all the wrongs you grew up around. Please...PLEASE... take all the time you need to work out that outrage, but also be aware that there will be a time for that outrage to find a smaller place in your life.
I'm not one of those "just get over it" folks who think you just need to move on and shut up. I think it's healthy to talk things out and get input, advice, perspective.
However, I have seen how, if you're not careful, the talking and writing and reading are no longer helpful - but actually cause a greater hindrance. It's too easy to read some new story of abuse and all of a sudden your own anger is stoked as if the abuse had happened to you. In some ways it can be as if just reading some of the stories here does more harm than help.
Take all the time you need. Then recognize that there is life outside and away from your computer screen and a world that never heard of twi - and go live that life in that world. Then when you return, you may again feel outrage - but it won't have the same hold on you.
The saying still holds:
The best revenge is a life well-lived.
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brainfixed
the funny thing is that i became a member here to join in the "easy" discussions like in the silly forum or the song discussion, but then i started talking about me and how i had begun to understand some things and now look at where i'm at still. i honestly thought i was through my anger and onto the healing until i actually participated here instead of just read. it's like some missing part of therapy has finally been found and the leaching out has finally begun. and you are right doojable that just when i think i'm done with it all somebody says something and it all wells up again inside of me and feels like i must get it out before it consumes me, but i haven't been doing this for very long so i think i'm ok and don't need to be worried yet. i went 4 days last week without writing anything here, so i'm good aren't i?
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chockfull
Good people in a bad system is actually one of the worst things about the whole deal. It keeps the allure going to stay. These good people are basically peer pressured into actions that are not good by the corruptness inherent in the system, through fear, peer pressure, and control. Everyone changes their actions to please the top cheese w/r to themselves. They divulge things about their lives that allow control not freedom. And as you traverse the 8 layers of leadership in TWI, with each layer comes more control and more temptation. Outlyers are eliminated. Lies are promulgated. Leaders 4, 5 layers up have tremendous pressure to keep their jobs, so will lie and throw someone under a bus in a heartbeat. Bribery is the currency traded, whether of physical goods, or emotional compliance or both. Even the good people develop an elitist attitude as a Christian. It's what they are taught, by example and words. An elitist attitude mixed up with poor to mediocre caliber action. They lie to themselves - you can read about it in I John 1. That's what they do.
There are better people living in the neighborhoods we live in, going to the churches in the communities we live in, working at the jobs we do. More heart, more inherent moral standard to help someone they know.
Make new friends. You'll be happier. You don't have to lose all your old ones. But just make new ones.
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geisha779
First off brainfixed I have to tell you. . . I tapped my daughter once on a very padded nappy and promptly burst into tears. She in turn just looked at me then continued on her way. That was our one and only experience with the wooden spoon.
I truly never saw anyone beat their child with a wooden spoon or belittle them in a public setting. I was around many parents and children. That is not to say it didn't happen, but not anywhere I ever lived. . . . that I witnessed. . . .
You know, TWI wasn't a church, or a social group, or a nice little bible ministry gone bad. . . it was actually a cult.
There are some interesting studies done about what happened to those of us involved in TWI. In fact, there is a thread around here called. . .
TWI-induced SNAPPING, Detrimental, abrupt personality & self-image change
If I knew how to link to it I would, but you can do a search on "Snapping" and easily find it. I think that Waysider brought it up once on another thread called Snapping.
It might help you to understand that your mom. . . was actually a victim too. It may seem like she made all her own choices. . . it might be an interesting consideration to learn what might have happened to her in TWI.
I am not so sure your mom would have been the same had she joined another church or participated in another ministry.
It is quite a reaction to talk about hurling. . . or vomiting out your eyes. . . or beating Jesus in the face. . . it really might be helpful to get some more information on what took place in your Mom's head. Maybe it will help you look at her with a bit more understanding. . . and work through some of your anger.
I read your responses to Roy in the doctrinal forum. . . seems you have great capacity for understanding the human condition. . . .
Check out those threads!! :)
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doojable
Like I said, just don't let "their stories" (as in anyone else's stories) become YOUR stories.
I used to keep a journal during a difficult time in my younger life. I had to stop. I found that I could start off the day feeling fine. Then I would write a few pages and get myself angry and/or depressed just by what I had written. It was as if I became my own abuser. I realized that if I wasn't careful, I'd get myself stuck in the same ruts over and over again.
I wouldn't advise you to stop talking about twi, but I would suggest that every hour spent doing something YOU want to do is another hour you gain your freedom from the cult.
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geisha779
Chockfull,
What sound advice. . . I thank you. I have taken it onboard and despite my verbose responses in this paticular thread. . . . I have moved on in my life.
In fact, it is very ironic that I find myself advocating a position that can be percieved as defending TWI.
But here is the thing. . . .and there is no real way to get around this. . . you and I and the others who post here make up what was once TWI. We are actually the people being discussed.
And although I have had to really evaluate my time in TWI with the harsh light of current reality shinning on a large portion of my past. . . I have been able to make peace with it on some level. That is why I can look at those I knew with some manner of understanding.
If I judge them solely based on the facade of Waythink. . . I must do that with myself. . . or I am a hypocrite. I was more than TWI. . . lost for a time, but still more. . . . . I still retained a shadow of myself while I was in TWI. Others did as well.
If I write off all those I knew as bad. . . because of some actions. . . .I judge every prayer, good deed, and moment of kindness given. I don't have that kind of vision or perception.
Like I keep saying. . . we were all tricked. . . but not all bad.
Hope that makes sense????
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brainfixed
ok i get it to not hang out here and write and read to the point that everything else i do suffers and i become hooked into here like i was back in the way or something, and i get it that you guys have got my best interests at heart, and i get it that there were a few people that never saw abuse in the way. but i have to say that this repeated "encouragement" to do something else right now feels alot like "exhortation" in the way. i'm not stupid and i'm not broken beyond ability to think for myself and make my own choices. and i never said things like "vomiting out my eyes" or "beating jesus in the face" and those things are just twisted of what i really did say and that bothers me a whole lot, and it also bothers me that so what if i did say such things anyway? if that's my reaction to what happened to me in the way then so what? what happened to me in the way was bad very bad and if i want to describe it with strong words that give a mental picture of how bad then so what? thanks for your concern and your help, but please remember that i am not a child any longer and that i am under professional care and that i have managed my own life pretty darned good to before participating here so i will most likely manage it pretty darned good long after participating here.
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doojable
Understood. I made my first post to more than one poster and then let it become specific. I apologize. No more advice.
Enjoy your stay.
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geisha779
Well, I never said I didn't see abuse in the Way. . . I saw plently. I just said I never saw a kid beaten with a spoon. Just because I don't tell each and every horrible thing that happened to me . . . . doesn't mean they didn't happen.
It was vomit out your brain. . . not eyes. . . and it was punch "this" Christ in the face and go back again. . . sorry I misquoted you.
"so what exactly can i do with what i know besides vomit it out of my brain and do what i can to heal? and i'd like to meet this "christ" that would ask such an inane question of people so horribly abused in the name of "god" because i feel like punching him right in the mouth as many times as i could until i was worn out and then get my breath and start in again"
Your right. . . your choice of expression is your own. . . and yes. . . please enjoy your time here. . . sorry if I upset you.
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potato
I think you're doing just fine. we all process this stuff differently. I myself had to take a "total immersion" approach and embrace my anger... I guess one could say I'd cut part of myself off and locked it away in my head, and all the hurt and anger with it, and reintegrating was really hard and has taken years and I'm still not done. after years of therapy, I think I managed to get to a place where I'm as mentally healthy as I was before I got tangled up in twi, and thanks to some recent developments I'm looking forward to growing beyond that.
when I first got here, it was the people who described things in strong terms that helped me the most to realize how bad it actually was, and that I'd better stop excusing what was done to me. that realization helped me leave twi when I was too scared to. the kindness of people like excathedra, doojable, bowtwi, belle, dmiller, rumrunner, and many others were so vital to my survival that I'm not sure I can actually describe how indebted I am to them. I was a right mess back then :)
but that's why I'm not so concerned with the good times in twi. every memory of twi has pain associated with it. maybe someday it won't, but that doesn't really matter... I just I hope I don't ever lull myself into forgetting the bad and idealizing the good so that I can't hear a brother or sister's pain.
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brainfixed
this stuff is more than just difficult to comprehend and talk about and interact in a way that we aren't face to face so i see how things can get touch and go with how to interact with people. i come on strong here in writing but in my head i am speaking quietly and calmly and really pretty much matter of factly, but how can anybody know that just by reading what i am writing? they can't so i will learn that i might have to come back a few times to express myself with more detail or explanation, but in my everyday "real" life i am easily understood and easily express myself because even if my words are strong and overly descriptive i am right there and my voice is well modulated and my expressions and body language show the hearer that i am not angry or being forceful but am just discussing things. in fact one of the things my therapist has to get me to work on is showing emotion of any sort when discussing things, so i think i can tell him or her that maybe if i just write things like i'm on here and then maybe read them back to him or her i can find my way to speaking as passionately as i'm writing here?
just to make things a little more clear if they can be made so at this point, what i meant when i said "vomit it out of my brain" was not that i wanted to vomit from my brain but that i wanted to let all the way stuff in my brain come out and because the way stuff in my brain is poison then it would be like vomitting as in "spewing" which is pretty descriptive of how things are coming out for me when i write here. and when i said "i'd like to meet this "christ"" i put christ in "" to show that i don't think it would be the actual christ that would ask such a question, so it wasn't like i felt like i wanted to punch jesus in the mouth but that i felt like i wanted to punch any false christ in the mouth, and i didn't say i would do such a thing or even wanted to do such a thing, but that it made me feel that way, so when i talk about how things make me feel i'm not talking about just because i feel that way then i'm going to go out and do something like that! i do have more self control than to act out such things just because i feel a certain thing. and i don't shun advice, but i do get a bit pi$$y if it's said over and over again, but i do get it when people are just trying to help.
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socks
I know just how you feel.
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RumRunner
There are plenty of people who still have their pulpits - just moved them from TWI or some other group to here. Even those who adamantly are against TWI (etc) often still sound and say things like they are still in the belief system just not the organization. You'll begin to recognize certain posters who have the pat (and usually same) "answer" for everything. They are still preaching; in text is all. On the one hand it is rather boorish of them - on the other hand there are no restrictions for their posts on this site. Kind of like watching TV with the remote...ya gotta switch channels when you get a commercial.
Yes I am certain that most, even the most annoyingly repetitive and robotic "sounding" posters probably mean well - but your point is well taken - you live your life - no doubt you've had quite enough pseudo-christian advice floated your way.
Else...you'll end up like me...and complete cynic...of course I happen to think that has its entertainment value for me.
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socks
I can't think of anyone specific on GS posting currently that fits that description RumRunner.
Can you?
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GeorgeStGeorge
We're always looking for newcomers to the "game" threads. ("Name that...", "...Pictionary", "Triple Movie Links," etc.)
Drop in!
George
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RumRunner
If I couldn't think of anyone specific I would not have posted that. Actually I can think of several but I am certainly not going to post names because A) it is poor manners at best to do so and B) naming names would only be foisting my viewpoint of certain people by name onto Brainfixed who has made it clear that he/she is not interested in all manner of advice. Brainfixed will see them on his/her own, or not, or ignore me. Either way it is no big deal to me.
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excathedra
thank you for this discussion
many people continue to help me and i'm grateful
i know i have the most posts on greasespot sad. could be because i'm the most screwed up or one who needs to talk or oh hell i don't know. even being called the "patron saint of sexual abuse" hasn't stopped me. scarey eh?
but thinking about grieving -- not being allowed to -- is something i really understand
the death of a loved one, the death of one's childhood, one's soul......
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Linda Z
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at, RumRunner.
Without naming names, what are you talking about? You can give examples of behavior/types of posts without naming names. I'm really trying to understand your point here, but your implication or accusation or criticism, or whatever it is, is so vague and veiled that I'm not certain what you mean.
I could guess at what you're trying to say, but that leads to nowhere but miscommunication. I'd rather hear you explain it straight out and specifically.
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socks
I don't mean to give you a hard time RumRunner, I'm just confused and maybe one or two others are too, as Linda Z sez. I don't see anyone doing that. Here. Now.
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excathedra
i don't know. is it socks and linzee ? people that empathize but don't see the evil i do ? just asking.....
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RumRunner
Linda you need to re-read my post and untwist the knot in those panty hose. I gave examples without giving names - per your post-suggestion however - face it - if I gave examples of posts then the names (S/Ns at least) are revealed. I'm a little beyond that thank you. Brainfixed can see it on his/her own, not see it, or ignore me. Either way my evening marguerita tastes fine thanks.
I accused no one. I implied no one. I pointedly stated that some people still have their pulpits. Brainfixed made it clear he/she was not interested in what sounded like "way exhortation." That is not veiled and neither was my response. It was about as plain as Dick, Jane and Sally - oh don't forget Spot.
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excathedra
i like brainfixed a lot
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chockfull
Yes. Sucks, doesn't it. Now I didn't do any of the predatorial sexual abuse stuff, but I supported a system financially, emotionally, and in leadership that was corrupt. I acted elitist as a Christian, I acted controlling because I followed example, I did all of that. I was a fool. I hurt people including my own family by my pride.
All I can say is not anymore. Ever again. Once burned, shame on them. If I go to sleep and allow it a second time, shame on me.
I'm not saying don't keep ties to innies. Or 'get over it'. Or anything like that. Now personally I see the vomit-inducing elitism of 99.5% of innies even when they are trying not to be that way. And I have found that once I dropped my pride, I've found better Christians in almost any walk of life I've chosen. Neighbors, co-workers, hobbyists. Hell you could throw a stone from any given street corner and find a person with a better heart than 99.5% of TWI delusional idiots. So yes, find new friends. They are better than old friends. Of course, there may be a couple exeptions you find. But most of the old friends I've found really weren't, and only cared due to association or attached to the ulterior motives in the group.
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Linda Z
If it's me, RumR, you may feel free to have at it. I give you my permission. :)
Frankly, I think after a few years on here we can predict what a lot of people are going to say before they say it.
Exsie, my friend (and I know you know I"m your friend and vice versa), I do see the evil. It's just not all I see.
I'm glad you love me anyway, because I sure love you!
'Scuze me. I must go to prepare my next sermon.
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