I used to hear all the time "You die when you quit believing to live". I always wondered if that made a person who got shot and a really old person essentially the same. "Just keep believing and you'll stay alive".
Death is like being sick: "Sickness is Death, in part or in whole." You just couldn't reprove a person after they died.
New Life VP spoke about it in the PFAL class ... about how in the far east people would just stop living when they wanted to.. Remember though this is VP who Lied when ever the chance presented itself. I suspect Geer just took a little more poetic license and used it for his own advantage.
I do not remember what part of the class it was in but I think toward the end..
edited to add this is the point where usually some one comes out and points out how I am remembering it wrong and tells where it actually was but I am pretty sure I heard it in the class.
Yeah, I used to hear that BS all the time back in the early 1970's. I think maybe it came from PLAF (The Wonder Class) where Wierwille 'splains that nobody killed Jesus, he simply "gave up the ghost" by his own decision. (session #4 if you really need to know) Now, in the Advanced Class, (page 31) Wierwille teaches that "sickness is death in part or in whole."
Raf once said (I hope he doesn't mind my repeating this.) "You don't die when you quit believing, you die when you quit breathing." (or something along those lines.)
The "spirit of death" thing is straight out of the Advanced Class.
Page 21
Spirits affecting the mind
#18 Spirit of death
And we all know how amazingly accurate all of VP's teachings were when it came to devil spirits. :wacko:
Wierwille had cancer, it's a disease. It's like a football game. There's a winner and a loser. Wierwille lost, but it looked better to say that he purposely lost, that he threw the game. My competitor didn't really beat me, I let it beat me!
I don't believe that death is a spirit, I'm not even sure I know what you mean by that. Do you mean a devil spirit?
I also don't think talking about death is morbid. Death is a part of life, that may sound cliche, but that's what I truly believe. It sucks and is sad and heart wrenching at times, but still a part of life.
I was just wondering if any of the corps that read this could clarify what I believe I read. In the POP towards the end it was stated that VP turned to the side of the wall and shut his organs down and died. This indicated he had the power to do that which in turn indicated he could decide.
This "shutting down of organs" is/was this a teaching only to the corps? I had never heard it.
I once was very, very, sick, and a person of the corps status said to me, if you want to die, let me know and I'll tell you how to do it. I never asked....I got healed.
But this whole thing about the individual shutting down their organs....can anyone comment on that?
I do believe Death is a spirit...any comments on that?
Without making this a morbid post....just wondered what the teaching was on the organ deal and where did it come from...how did they get that from the Word.......
Thanks
It's a bunch of hooey that CG wrote to try and make VPW look larger than life. Kind of like VPW used to teach that Jesus Christ decided when it was time for him to die by revelation.
I mean people can lose the will to live and if they are really sick over time they can stop fighting and die.
But some pinhead telling you they can teach you how to shut down your organs if you want? Ridiculous. And yes, there are a lot of pinheads that went through the Corps training and had / have Corps status.
All those "spirtchal" heavy weights hangin'about the motor coach at the end-----Youda thought somebody woulda said, "Hey, lookie there, it's that old spurt of death guy climbin' into the 'coach."
Bramble.....I'd answer those two statements....Yes, I would call that suicide......and Yes if you could do it to yourself, then I think it would be logical to think you could do it to someone else too.
Wow...that really made me think!
Yea, and why didn't they look for the Death spirit and cast it out? More to think about.....hmmmmmmm
Doesn't seem it would take too much "discerning of spirits" to detect a fella, with a striking resemblance to Brad Pitt in a black suit, just sauntering onto the back of the trailer..
Going waaaay back...I vaguely...and I mean very vaguely...remember something about Bishop K.C. Pillai teaching this. You remember K.C. Pillai, right Waysider? You know, the author of Light through an Eastern Window? Hope I'm not giving you serious flashbacks now.
Also, don't some eastern religions teach this like with the Samurai etc. Maybe that's just a Hollywood thing.
I remember that as well.. "he turned to the wall and gave up the spirit" or something of the sort..
p65 of Light through an Eastern Window.. "It seems to me that Hindus know how to die more gracefully than some Christians.... A Hindu seems to have a premonition as to when he is going to die, so he puts on his good clothes, lies down on the bead and calls the family to the bedside to give them a final blessing. The Holy Book is brought and a suitable passage is read. Then he raises his hand in blessing and expires."
Then the vicster made some mention about how Pillai just believed to die.. turned to the wall, closed his eyes.. and just quietly expired..
I think this is where this came from..
One thing one could say.. herr vicster did not die exactly in a "graceful" manner..
whined and complained and hissy fitted to the end.. ran to geero for sympathy.. "boo hoo, they've all abandoned me in da usa.."
In fact, we had an interesting thread going here awhile back, discussing some of the "Orientalism" that he taught.
I dunno, though.
That thing with the Hindu knowing when he is about to die sounds Waaaaaaaaaaay too much like a Hollywood ending from a 1940's flick.
Would have been a good scene for "The Real McCoys".
Walter Brennan lays there in bed--- Little Luke and Hassie "fetch" the family Bible---Pepino whips a big red bandana out of his overalls and wipes his tears before blowing his nose----Suddenly, Grandpa McCoy breaks out into a tear jerking rendition of
just before the lights go out forever.
I'd still like to see a scripture that gives some credibility to this as being "Biblical".
Would have been a good scene for "The Real McCoys".
Walter Brennan lays there in bed--- Little Luke and Hassie "fetch" the family Bible---Pepino whips a big red bandana out of his overalls and wipes his tears before blowing his nose----Suddenly, Grandpa McCoy breaks out into a tear jerking rendition of
just before the lights go out forever.
I'd still like to see a scripture that gives some credibility to this as being "Biblical".
Oh man, that's one of the funniest things I've seen for quite awhile! I have the same question...where do you come up with this stuff?
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Bolshevik
I used to hear all the time "You die when you quit believing to live". I always wondered if that made a person who got shot and a really old person essentially the same. "Just keep believing and you'll stay alive".
Death is like being sick: "Sickness is Death, in part or in whole." You just couldn't reprove a person after they died.
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leafytwiglet
New Life VP spoke about it in the PFAL class ... about how in the far east people would just stop living when they wanted to.. Remember though this is VP who Lied when ever the chance presented itself. I suspect Geer just took a little more poetic license and used it for his own advantage.
I do not remember what part of the class it was in but I think toward the end..
edited to add this is the point where usually some one comes out and points out how I am remembering it wrong and tells where it actually was but I am pretty sure I heard it in the class.
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waysider
Yeah, I used to hear that BS all the time back in the early 1970's. I think maybe it came from PLAF (The Wonder Class) where Wierwille 'splains that nobody killed Jesus, he simply "gave up the ghost" by his own decision. (session #4 if you really need to know) Now, in the Advanced Class, (page 31) Wierwille teaches that "sickness is death in part or in whole."
Raf once said (I hope he doesn't mind my repeating this.) "You don't die when you quit believing, you die when you quit breathing." (or something along those lines.)
The "spirit of death" thing is straight out of the Advanced Class.
Page 21
Spirits affecting the mind
#18 Spirit of death
And we all know how amazingly accurate all of VP's teachings were when it came to devil spirits. :wacko:
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leafytwiglet
See there Waysider Came along with even the session LOL Jinx Waysider you owe me a coke!
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waysider
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taxicab
Wierwille had cancer, it's a disease. It's like a football game. There's a winner and a loser. Wierwille lost, but it looked better to say that he purposely lost, that he threw the game. My competitor didn't really beat me, I let it beat me!
I don't believe that death is a spirit, I'm not even sure I know what you mean by that. Do you mean a devil spirit?
I also don't think talking about death is morbid. Death is a part of life, that may sound cliche, but that's what I truly believe. It sucks and is sad and heart wrenching at times, but still a part of life.
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chockfull
It's a bunch of hooey that CG wrote to try and make VPW look larger than life. Kind of like VPW used to teach that Jesus Christ decided when it was time for him to die by revelation.
I mean people can lose the will to live and if they are really sick over time they can stop fighting and die.
But some pinhead telling you they can teach you how to shut down your organs if you want? Ridiculous. And yes, there are a lot of pinheads that went through the Corps training and had / have Corps status.
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Ham
No, I don't believe this any more..
I'd say more, but in a "biblical" sense, it would sound "nuts"..
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waysider
Re: Spirit of Death
This is something that was taught in the Advanced Class.
According to Way doctrine, this is a devil spirit that hangs around someone whose death is approaching.
(page 21 of 1971 syllabus)
As taught in the AC, this spirit, itself, does not cause death. It simply visits someone who is about to die.
And, according to Way doctrine, regarding "discerning of spirits", someone who is tuned into revelation can discern this spirit.
Why?
Beats the cr@p outta me.
You would think there would be better places for a "spirit being" to hang out than someone's death bed.
Anyhow, Wierwille never gave any scripture reference to back up this claim.
I think it is part of that whole package of definitions and such that he stole from Leonard or Stiles or whoever it was he stole it from.
Interestingly. though, it bares an amazing resemblance to a lot of the old folklore about "the grim reaper".
FAMILY GUY
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Ham
The answer may be simple. Why? Maybe they just want to do an interview or something when *he* shows up..
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waysider
Kinda makes ya wonder.
All those "spirtchal" heavy weights hangin'about the motor coach at the end-----Youda thought somebody woulda said, "Hey, lookie there, it's that old spurt of death guy climbin' into the 'coach."
Hmmmmmm?
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Bramble
Wouldn't purposefully shutting down your organs to cause your own death be called suicide?
And if you could do it to yourself by the power of your believeing, couldn't you do it to someone else?
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newlife
Bramble.....I'd answer those two statements....Yes, I would call that suicide......and Yes if you could do it to yourself, then I think it would be logical to think you could do it to someone else too.
Wow...that really made me think!
Yea, and why didn't they look for the Death spirit and cast it out? More to think about.....hmmmmmmm
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Ham
Doesn't seem it would take too much "discerning of spirits" to detect a fella, with a striking resemblance to Brad Pitt in a black suit, just sauntering onto the back of the trailer..
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Broken Arrow
Going waaaay back...I vaguely...and I mean very vaguely...remember something about Bishop K.C. Pillai teaching this. You remember K.C. Pillai, right Waysider? You know, the author of Light through an Eastern Window? Hope I'm not giving you serious flashbacks now.
Also, don't some eastern religions teach this like with the Samurai etc. Maybe that's just a Hollywood thing.
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Ham
I remember that as well.. "he turned to the wall and gave up the spirit" or something of the sort..
p65 of Light through an Eastern Window.. "It seems to me that Hindus know how to die more gracefully than some Christians.... A Hindu seems to have a premonition as to when he is going to die, so he puts on his good clothes, lies down on the bead and calls the family to the bedside to give them a final blessing. The Holy Book is brought and a suitable passage is read. Then he raises his hand in blessing and expires."
Then the vicster made some mention about how Pillai just believed to die.. turned to the wall, closed his eyes.. and just quietly expired..
I think this is where this came from..
One thing one could say.. herr vicster did not die exactly in a "graceful" manner..
whined and complained and hissy fitted to the end.. ran to geero for sympathy.. "boo hoo, they've all abandoned me in da usa.."
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waysider
Yep, I remember Pillai.
In fact, we had an interesting thread going here awhile back, discussing some of the "Orientalism" that he taught.
I dunno, though.
That thing with the Hindu knowing when he is about to die sounds Waaaaaaaaaaay too much like a Hollywood ending from a 1940's flick.
Would have been a good scene for "The Real McCoys".
Walter Brennan lays there in bed--- Little Luke and Hassie "fetch" the family Bible---Pepino whips a big red bandana out of his overalls and wipes his tears before blowing his nose----Suddenly, Grandpa McCoy breaks out into a tear jerking rendition of
I'd still like to see a scripture that gives some credibility to this as being "Biblical".
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Ham
excuse me while I go to choke myself..
words fail me here..
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Ham
Did you read one of the reviews on that clip?
"howlingly bad"..
I can't find the words..
where do you dig up this stuff from, friend..
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Ham
But ya know.. Brennan had more to offer to American culture than the vicster even dreamed of..
funny Waysider.. I kind of liked that song..
just can't see it coming out of the vicster's mouth on his death bed or anything..
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frank123lol
Yeah Walter B was Americana,Buck up,Tell the truth ,no shi# kinda person,vic was a copier,
a pale shadow,Thank god for americas icons,of which herr wierwille was not.
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Broken Arrow
Oh man, that's one of the funniest things I've seen for quite awhile! I have the same question...where do you come up with this stuff?
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taxicab
Maybe Wierwille knew some Youth-In-Asia!
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leafytwiglet
Oh those are painful to watch!
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