In my opening post, I briefly detailed how twi's addition of all corps onto its payroll led to a bureacratic nightmare of reporting........it seems to me that government intervention into our lives will do the same.
These GS threads are LOADED with "corps intervention" into their personal lives.....to the point where Corps Nazis ruled the day. These mandates came from the top guy in twi.
TWI --> more staff --> more reports --> more micromanaging --> more legalism --> more stiffling --> RED INK
GOV'T --> more staff --> more reports --> more laws --> more micromanaging --> more dissent --> more police/IRS --> more stiffling --> more bureacracy --> more jobs lost --> RED INK
Your comparison between TWI and the government's actions against tobacco fails on this major point (and I just _know_ that anti-'gummint' activists like Ron, etc. are going to vehemently disagree with part of this): TWI just did it to control people. Many individuals (<-- *please* notice the emphasis) in said government do it because of the proven damage and harm that tobacco does to people, as well as the society in which they live. Yes, no doubt that there are other in-duh-viduals in same said government that also do it to control people's lives. ... And yet, what the government is doing in this area is both legal and Constitutional. If it isn't, ... call a (REAL) Constitutional attorney and go from there.
We _could_ make tobacco illegal, but then again, look at what happened when we made alcohol illegal. And yet alcohol often harms people in many ways like tobacco does. So we have laws regarding consumption of alcohol. Upsides and downsides to this as well.
And yet, an item like Marijuana is illegal, and it does FAR less harm than either alcohol or tobacco (unless you think having a serious case of the munchies to be cancer causing and dangerous driving), . ... Go figure.
Me? If I had my dream world, I'd outlaw cigarettes and booze, and make smoking a reefer legal. ...
Your comparison between TWI and the government's actions against tobacco fails on this major point (and I just _know_ that anti-'gummint' activists like Ron, etc. are going to vehemently disagree with part of this): TWI just did it to control people. Many individuals (<-- *please* notice the emphasis) in said government do it because of the proven damage and harm that tobacco does to people, as well as the society in which they live. Yes, no doubt that there are other in-duh-viduals in same said government that also do it to control people's lives. ... And yet, what the government is doing in this area is both legal and Constitutional. If it isn't, ... call a (REAL) Constitutional attorney and go from there.
TWI's double standard is blatantly obvious. Wierwille was a chain smoker....Don W. was a chain smoker......but when the corps were on twi's payroll, NO SMOKING was legislated.
When the field corps ADDED THE COST OF SMOKES to their financial budgets......twi, now, had "a dog in this fight." Yeah, when it hits THEIR pocketbook.......twi raised a stink. Funny, how they didn't mind the abundant sharing helping to pay vpw's and don's SMOKING HABITS.
Why is the ruling class of twi exempt from rules?
And, some may ask.......the whole thieving bunch were sexual predators and you are concerned about smoking?
Several years before the no smoking policy was instituted for all Way Corps I was at a weekend class being run by the Region Coordinator who happened to be a smoker. After lunch, the RC asked the waitress for an ashtray and lit up. Several other smokers, seeing that our fearless leader was smoking, figured that it was okay for everyone to smoke.
After a few minutes we were treated to a tirade about how no ashtrays on the tables indicated "no smoking" and that he, as the teacher and MOG for the Region was entitled to privelages that the rest of us were not.
I dunno.. who actually benefits from all of these mandates and regulations? We da people? Maybe slightly..
its the lawyers.. the lawmakers.. they must justify their existence to those who elected them, no?
Who makes the *big* money here?
one fact to consider: what is the percentage of smokers to population in the u.s.? Its twenty percent. Approximately.
It does not surprise me that politicians would want to endear themselves to 80 percent of the population..
just a few thoughts. I am a non smoker.. I detest breathing second hand smoke.. but I really detest being "played" by a two-bit politician in this regard even more..
even the rhetoric coming off the main stage seemed markedly similar to that of the current administration at the time, especially if it was "conservative"..
loy even found a couple of examples where he understood Clinton..
I don't think this is too far off the subject. I think the organization simply mimicked the politics of the time.. the branding of smoking and smokers as selfish, devilish, resource wasting and such..
I mean.. considering in da way world.. how hard would it be to marshal a majority of likely 80 percent or even more against 20?
then came the next minority.. the "homos"..
the "unproductive".. then what was it next..
I think I figured that out.. the "unproductive" were those who could not adequately maintain a family, and eliminate loy's sea of red ink with 15, 20, 25 percent (or more) of their incomes, at the same time..
and bring a dozen or so new blood into his classes each year, all with a smile on one's face..
And of course I'm sure those of us around at the time remember VPW smoking on stage in the Main tent at the ROA's. Nobody else could smoke because it was a fire hazard as I recall. The exact same reason was given us as was given to Oakspear... he was "Doctor" after all. It struck me as arrogance by VPW even then.
I think "da way" was simply a mirror of the larger scale of insanity..
hardly basing decisions on some kind of biblical standard..
they seemed to follow suit with what was happening in industry in general..
As twi became more corrupt......abusive power escalated.
As government becomes more corrupt......abuse of power escalates.
Warning from surgeon general HEART SURGEON (Jesus).....what could possibly be THE REASONS why Pharisees and Herod be coupled together in THE SAME CONTEXT?
Mar 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod.
And of course I'm sure those of us around at the time remember VPW smoking on stage in the Main tent at the ROA's. Nobody else could smoke because it was a fire hazard as I recall. The exact same reason was given us as was given to Oakspear... he was "Doctor" after all. It struck me as arrogance by VPW even then.
sudo
VP was able to believe to not set fire to the tent. The rest of us just couldn't handle it.
In April of 1995, when Craig Martindale proclaimed that God gave him revelation for all active corps to be full-time employees of twi......it signaled the beginning of twi's micro-management of field personnel.
In the months that followed all corps were to make preparations for their assignments and full-time service. With trust and expectation, no one really knew what laid ahead......except that martindale stated it was "revelation" from God. Supposedly, it was time to cross over the bridge into "The Promised Land of the Prevailing Word."
As is always the case, the field corps were dramatically impacted.....selling businesses, giving notice to their employers, moving to new locations, changing schools for children, etc. At Corps Week, all corps were to meet with twi's Personnel Director and sign the paperwork, go over salary parameters and requests, broad job descriptions, any special situations, etc. The root locale corps were virtually unaffected by staying at their hq jobs.
By September, the Trunk Office tripled their personnel to keep up with the demands, inter-departmental communication to field corps, new structuring and reports, faxes to report back, etc. In one massive sweep, martindale's decision had totally transformed twi overnight and a paper blizzard of reporting. Suffice it to say, the trustees had NO CLUE what they set in motion. With every decision made, the field corps were responsible for following thru with martindale's directives......every field event, MORE MONEY SPENT.
After several months, then came the legalism......
NO SMOKING
NO PETS
NO PREGNANCIES (w/o trustee approval)
NO......etc. etc.
NO PETS........meant no "serious" pets (dogs, cats, horses, llamas, etc).
Yes, folks.......cats were TOO EXPENSIVE according to twi standards. Crazed corps would rat out other corps to keep on the path of 'the prevailing word.'
And, wouldn't you know it.........Rosalie kept her CAT.
We weren't allowed to have pets in Fellow Laborers, either. So, to satisfy the emptiness, people started buying cactus and jade plants to keep on their window sills. Have you ever tried to walk one of those suckers on a leash?
We weren't allowed to have pets in Fellow Laborers, either. So, to satisfy the emptiness, people started buying cactus and jade plants to keep on their window sills. Have you ever tried to walk one of those suckers on a leash?
Anti smoking Facism has become an almost universal obsession.
It has gone WAY (pardon the pun) past the rights of non-smokers.
Spain is one of those few countries that applies an intelligent solution. Businesses below a certain square metreage can decide to allow or to not allow smoking and those above that limit have to provide separate smoking and non-smoking areas.
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skyrider
In my opening post, I briefly detailed how twi's addition of all corps onto its payroll led to a bureacratic nightmare of reporting........it seems to me that government intervention into our lives will do the same.
These GS threads are LOADED with "corps intervention" into their personal lives.....to the point where Corps Nazis ruled the day. These mandates came from the top guy in twi.
TWI --> more staff --> more reports --> more micromanaging --> more legalism --> more stiffling --> RED INK
GOV'T --> more staff --> more reports --> more laws --> more micromanaging --> more dissent --> more police/IRS --> more stiffling --> more bureacracy --> more jobs lost --> RED INK
What could possibly go wrong...????
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GarthP2000
Your comparison between TWI and the government's actions against tobacco fails on this major point (and I just _know_ that anti-'gummint' activists like Ron, etc. are going to vehemently disagree with part of this): TWI just did it to control people. Many individuals (<-- *please* notice the emphasis) in said government do it because of the proven damage and harm that tobacco does to people, as well as the society in which they live. Yes, no doubt that there are other in-duh-viduals in same said government that also do it to control people's lives. ... And yet, what the government is doing in this area is both legal and Constitutional. If it isn't, ... call a (REAL) Constitutional attorney and go from there.
We _could_ make tobacco illegal, but then again, look at what happened when we made alcohol illegal. And yet alcohol often harms people in many ways like tobacco does. So we have laws regarding consumption of alcohol. Upsides and downsides to this as well.
And yet, an item like Marijuana is illegal, and it does FAR less harm than either alcohol or tobacco (unless you think having a serious case of the munchies to be cancer causing and dangerous driving), . ... Go figure.
Me? If I had my dream world, I'd outlaw cigarettes and booze, and make smoking a reefer legal. ...
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skyrider
TWI's double standard is blatantly obvious. Wierwille was a chain smoker....Don W. was a chain smoker......but when the corps were on twi's payroll, NO SMOKING was legislated.
When the field corps ADDED THE COST OF SMOKES to their financial budgets......twi, now, had "a dog in this fight." Yeah, when it hits THEIR pocketbook.......twi raised a stink. Funny, how they didn't mind the abundant sharing helping to pay vpw's and don's SMOKING HABITS.
Why is the ruling class of twi exempt from rules?
And, some may ask.......the whole thieving bunch were sexual predators and you are concerned about smoking?
D@mn straight.......and I am not a smoker.
I loathe HYPOCRISY.
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Oakspear
After a few minutes we were treated to a tirade about how no ashtrays on the tables indicated "no smoking" and that he, as the teacher and MOG for the Region was entitled to privelages that the rest of us were not.
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Ham
I dunno.. who actually benefits from all of these mandates and regulations? We da people? Maybe slightly..
its the lawyers.. the lawmakers.. they must justify their existence to those who elected them, no?
Who makes the *big* money here?
one fact to consider: what is the percentage of smokers to population in the u.s.? Its twenty percent. Approximately.
It does not surprise me that politicians would want to endear themselves to 80 percent of the population..
just a few thoughts. I am a non smoker.. I detest breathing second hand smoke.. but I really detest being "played" by a two-bit politician in this regard even more..
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Ham
I think "da way" was simply a mirror of the larger scale of insanity..
hardly basing decisions on some kind of biblical standard..
they seemed to follow suit with what was happening in industry in general..
the cost cutting measures..
stealing (well, in a practical sense) people's retirement and livelihood..
they seemed to break the unions earlier however.. doop, heefner.. taking over the California franchise.. etc. etc..
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Ham
I should have written a journal..
even the rhetoric coming off the main stage seemed markedly similar to that of the current administration at the time, especially if it was "conservative"..
loy even found a couple of examples where he understood Clinton..
I don't think this is too far off the subject. I think the organization simply mimicked the politics of the time.. the branding of smoking and smokers as selfish, devilish, resource wasting and such..
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Ham
I mean.. considering in da way world.. how hard would it be to marshal a majority of likely 80 percent or even more against 20?
then came the next minority.. the "homos"..
the "unproductive".. then what was it next..
I think I figured that out.. the "unproductive" were those who could not adequately maintain a family, and eliminate loy's sea of red ink with 15, 20, 25 percent (or more) of their incomes, at the same time..
and bring a dozen or so new blood into his classes each year, all with a smile on one's face..
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Sudo
And of course I'm sure those of us around at the time remember VPW smoking on stage in the Main tent at the ROA's. Nobody else could smoke because it was a fire hazard as I recall. The exact same reason was given us as was given to Oakspear... he was "Doctor" after all. It struck me as arrogance by VPW even then.
sudo
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skyrider
As twi became more corrupt......abusive power escalated.
As government becomes more corrupt......abuse of power escalates.
Warning from surgeon general HEART SURGEON (Jesus).....what could possibly be THE REASONS why Pharisees and Herod be coupled together in THE SAME CONTEXT?
Mar 8:15 And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and [of] the leaven of Herod.
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Ham
spiritually (and otherwise) a very very good point..
:)
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Oakspear
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skyrider
NO PETS........meant no "serious" pets (dogs, cats, horses, llamas, etc).
Yes, folks.......cats were TOO EXPENSIVE according to twi standards. Crazed corps would rat out other corps to keep on the path of 'the prevailing word.'
And, wouldn't you know it.........Rosalie kept her CAT.
The ruling class is above the petty rules.
<_<
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waysider
We weren't allowed to have pets in Fellow Laborers, either. So, to satisfy the emptiness, people started buying cactus and jade plants to keep on their window sills. Have you ever tried to walk one of those suckers on a leash?
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skyrider
Welcome to the more deserted abundant life.
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Trefor Heywood
Anti smoking Facism has become an almost universal obsession.
It has gone WAY (pardon the pun) past the rights of non-smokers.
Spain is one of those few countries that applies an intelligent solution. Businesses below a certain square metreage can decide to allow or to not allow smoking and those above that limit have to provide separate smoking and non-smoking areas.
People can therefore make their own mind up.
How civilised.
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