Why "miracles" seemed to only happen for new people

[What About It]

When I first got in the way ministry, God did some really great things for me. Over the years, those things seemed fewer and farther between. And then I would hear stories of new people coming to the ministry and all the great things God was doing for them. So I would wonder, why doesn't God do things like that for those of us who have been in the ministry for a long time? And sometimes I would even try to justify it by thinking that we had fewer needs than a new person, who really needed a lot of deliverance. But that's kind of hard to justify at HQ when all around you the staff are getting older and older and getting cancer and all kinds of other diseases, and no one's getting healed without doctors and surgeries and all that.

So now I'm reading a book called Toxic Faith that was recommended to me by Twinky when I posted this thread How do you get over it? (Thanks, Twinky!). It has a great explanation for this:

In a toxic-faith system, the organization takes the place of God.

That explains a lot--like why God seems to do so much for people who were new to the way but very little for those who had been around for a number of years.

[WordWolf]

I can only really speak on my own behalf on this one.

So I'll say that in my case, I started out a lot hotter, but I cooled off

in twi for a simple reason:

the local leadership felt THREATENED by me and acted out of FEAR,

ultimately succeeding in cooling my "temperature" enough that miracle-type

stuff went from "expected" to "rare" like it happened for them.

I've noted it pointed out even on tape sometime, how new people often

get such results, then they settle in and that stops. I think it's

because twi strangled their confidence and simplicity about the things

of God. It would not surprise me to hear that it was fairly common for

"leadership" to CLAMP DOWN on that sort of thing out of fear.

[OldSkool]

Well, currently in the way international, miracles are held to be earned. They are earned on good discipleship and faithful service by volunteering your time. Oh, let's not forget that we are supposed to give at LEAST 10% of our money.

Then we can look in the gospels and see Jesus healing the multitudes. It is so clear that he just healed them out of love. Jesus spent his time amongst the publicans and sinners setting the example for his disciples. Freely loving the unlovable.

The way international is full of false prophets and teachers that disciple people to a bastardized law that Victor Paul Wierwille extrapolated from various and sundry sources that tickled his fancy. The longer a person stays involved with the way ministry the farther they are carried away from God. I agree, and can say from experience, that "in a toxic faith system the organization takes the place of God." In the case of the way international they teach that the bible takes the place of the absent Christ. So in the end the follower is left with no God and no Christ all the while they are supposedly the elite, the enlightened Christians who know that they know that they know. They believe themselves to be the best of the best of the best. Sad really.

[chockfull]

My .02.

It's because the spirit of God is not moving, alive, or vital in the organization. God still honors the heart, so the pure-hearted and new have a lot more child-like believing, live under grace, and just treat God like a child with a father. So miracles happen.

Then the crushing rules of the organization, the politics, the many small people climbing over one another, the sheer hurt of all the burned and abandoned, the devilishness of those at the top, all start to close in. By the time people are on Staff or under TWI's thumb for long periods of time, they have migrated to a mostly "works" type of mindset - that you have to "work" to see miracles, deliverance, etc. They say with their mouth this isn't true, but by their actions and fruit it contradicts what their mouth says. The whole org is geared towards "works" to maintain "status" or "position". This leads toward bondage.

When believers live under grace, love energizes the miraculous. When believers are under the bondage of man-made law, the spirit of God is squeezed out of the picture.

IMO.

[excathedra]

one thing that will definitely slaughter your childlike expectations of miracles is the way corps program

perhaps even the advanced class

perhaps perhaps even the pfal class

:(

the more i was in, the less i saw

or the more i was taught, the less i saw

when i first got "witnessed to" i believed in possibilities

[Twinky]

Young believers were raised to have expectations of God working. PFAL did raise that expectation...got newbies speaking in tongues, or the TWI version of it.

Then - take the next class and learn to do something better...all 9 all the time became just words, we needed another class to learn to "interpret" and "prophesy".

Then at the Adv class, we were given even more rules and procedures..."green light revelation"??

And we were told God wouldn't spit in our direction if we didn't do this or that. Even little things. In fact, they taught us fear not freedom. Condemnation, not calm. Graft, not grace. Works, not wonders.

Yeah, they surely did plan God out of our lives...!

WAI, glad you've found the book helpful. Freeing.

[Nottawayfer]

This is a great thread.

It's so true we were taught to take God out of the picture. I remember many prayers where people told God what they wanted him to bless and do. There was no asking God to reveal HIS WILL to them. It's almost scarey to think about how much trust and reverence was given to the ministry.

I think there's something to being vulnerable to God and allowing Him to show you what HE wants you to see.

Remember Mary saying "Be it unto me according to THY will."

Remember Jesus saying "Not my will, but YOUR will be done."

I am no longer a servant to a ministry. I'm freed from bondage of the ministry, and I'm still figuring things out. There's a freedom in being OK with not having all the answers. We don't need to IMHO.