beliving----->recieving the punchline of a very bad joke

[So_crates]

Well, being 55 (I"ve been associated with Ministry doctrine since the early 70's, I last left the Ministry in '86) and looking over my "spiritual career"--taking PFAL and intermediate class and going WOW for a year-- Through everything I can honestly say the whole affair has been a very bad joke with a stupid punchline.

Allow me to explain.

From the get-go, the whole believing is recieving schtick is bull. I think just in the last few years I've proven that a couple hundred times.

1. A year before I was to leave Florida, I realized I needed a car. Somebody approached me with the proposition: help me sell my ship and I'll buy you

a car. I must have gave him 20 leads. Needless to say no sale. No car.

2. My car broke down prior to the above. I asked a friend to look at it. He looked at it and said he need some other equipment. I told God to take care

of it and let go and let God. Six months later, the car was beyond repair. In my building everybody got a car in one form or another, except the

person who put his faith in God. Yours anonymous.

3. Before I left Florida, I wanted to say goodbye to the girl I'd lived with for 3 years. A friend of mine and I even prayed over it. I started looking

for her a year and a half before I left. Two and a half years later, I still haven't heard from her. This after searching, and leaving word with

everyone that would listen, leaving messages on the net, setting up ,a website on the net, posting in every social group on the net, and paying

someone to locate her. Just a sidenote: the guy I paid was a scam artist.

When I went to the religious guy in my building about the car. His first response to me was: "Money can't buy happiness." Then he turned around and bought himself a new car.

His other basic excuse was: "Its not God's will." So, I told him, your telling me God doesn't want me to have a car?

It was to reminiscent of the last time I severed ties with anyone in the Ministry. In my 40s, I was in a deep depression. I wanted to know where this great life God had planned for me was. Going to the person I knew in the Minisrty, I asked him. His response to me: "You got tricked."

I got tricked. I obeyed the man of god by going to college. rather than getting blessed, as promiced, I have a $50,000 loan I owe the government and no idea how I'm going to pay it off.

One of my friends in Florida told me I didn't have enough faith. I told him How much does it take? I moved a thousand miles from home hoping things would improve.

Before that, while I was learning the ropes in my profession, I lived on potatoes for three years. That doesn't take faith. Of course, after I learned my profession I couldn't get back into it, so that was useless.

Don't think this who believing is recieving thing is over yet. Read The Secretor anything in that vein. It teaches the same line of bull.

SoCrate

[waysider]

Hey, there, So_crates.

Welcome to our little cyber greasy spoon.

[Ham]

Welcome So Crates..

I got tricked. I obeyed the man of god by going to college. rather than getting blessed, as promiced, I have a $50,000 loan I owe the government and no idea how I'm going to pay it off.

consider yourself lucky

when I pass from this world.. they will figure out some way to infiltrate the after-life to collect from me as well..

might be a running joke with me.. but I think they've figured it out. Find an absolute Devil of a student loan collector, and an absolute Saint. Give them both strict orders to collect from me, before shooting both of them in the head..

Anyway.. welcome to the Cafe.. I hope the service here is pleasant..

*waiter, waiter.. forget the coffee. a glass of Merlot for my friend..*..

[waysider]

I'm workin' on it!

[OldSkool]

From the get-go, the whole believing is recieving schtick is bull. I think just in the last few years I've proven that a couple hundred times.

Amen!

This awful doctrine pins extra burden on the person who is having troubles and essentially blames the victim, so to speak. God is not a formula. Believing equals receiving takes the relationship aspect right out of Christianity and replaces it with second grade math. They run their supporting logic along the lines of "God is sovereign and perfect, the word just works, therefore if something is not happening then it must be your believing."

Of all the devilish doctrines the way international promotes this one could be a contender for the top spot. I went through sheer hell trying to reconcile my child's health issues that developed in the womb with my believing. I cannot put into words the consternation I lived through trying to believe for his health. I always blamed myself and in fact I still deal with the mental residue of this teaching.

Believing is faith which is simple trust. We learn to trust God and Christ. That what it means to have faith. If you follow the way international's logic the person believing is the one who fulfills the promises in the bible. The bible teaches that God fulfills his promises since he is the one who made them. We are to learn to have faith in God to fulfill his Word and take care of his people.

Can you tell I finally have a little peace on the subject now?

Welcome to GSC Socrates, and this is just my perspective, I welcome yours - even if it's different from mine.

[chockfull]

So_crates,

Nice to meet you. Yeah, I tend to agree with you that the believing = receiving is an overtly simple fallacy of a life principle as opposed to something that is real. Believing = a mental exercise is more what it is in the context of what they are talking about. Or believing is just something that describes the underlying principles of how I make decisions and live my life.

It doesn't solve the innate problem of death and taxes for example. Also - food, clothing, shelter, transportation - I think those involve a scramble a lot of times. I mean I guess homeless people have some of those, but most of us struggle in a similar fashion to what you describe in this life.

[waysider]

In the early days of the PFAL class, the "law" of believing, was called the "magic" of believing. (The original collateral was even titled that way.) That's because it's not (and never was) a "law". It's fantasy. You can't change physical realities with the power of thought. Try to levitate a table sometime with your mind. Good luck. Wierwille hitched his wagon to the new age thinking that was prevalent at the time and slapped a few Bible verses on the cover to give it an air of holiness. Consider, if you will, Norman Vincent Peale and his "Power of Positive Thinking". It's mumbo jumbo. I personally know of people who literally died trying to prove that the "law" of believing works. Read the L.E.A.D thread sometime to get an idea of how, needlessly, people suffered because they bought into this nonsense. Where we differ from the new phenomenon of The Secret is that we combined this stuff with glossolalia, or speaking in tongues, if you prefer, which reduces one's abilty to question and exercise critical thinking skills.

Edited December 1, 2010 by waysider

[Human without the bean]

Welcome So_crates. Those old WM chiche's are really out there aren't they.

Kick your feet up and enjoy your stay!

[Broken Arrow]

So_crates. same story, different people and circumstances. I like the line where you said, "Everyone in the building had a car except the one that put his trust in God". Not that I disagree with putting one's trust in God.

I remember reading the Blue Book. I believe I read that book hundreds of times. Every time I would go through a tough time I would pull out that book, "to get back to the basics". One time I was reading it and it dawned on me that the principle of "focus, let in the light of the Word, shoot the picture", did not address any problems I was having in my life. In fact, this "law" assumes everything is o.k. within me, and in order to be fulfilled, I need to manipulate my environment to my liking.

The truth is, everything is NOT okay within me, and that is where I need help.

It's also a misnomer to think that having one's material world in order creates fulfillment; it does not. Don't get me wrong, I still believe in prayer and in trusting God. But to think that we can have it all just by imagining our desired result is, as you say, a very destructive belief.

[year2027]

God-Serent-Jesus-Self-Christ-god being or kind

thanks So_crates

welcome new friend

as one reads the bible one see that those lies are only truth

but the promise is not for today

because all die

but the next stage of life

what before?

what next?

but the bible is nothing but a vain book

The book of Luke is not even in the bible

but Genesis is not too

what we have?

with love and a holy kiss Roy

Edited December 1, 2010 by year2027