I didn't know about these events. Thanks for posting, every time a little sunshine hits the way international / Wierwille's past it dismantles Rosie's efforts to deify the bum.
I didn't know about these events. Thanks for posting, every time a little sunshine hits the way international / Wierwille's past it dismantles Rosie's efforts to deify the bum.
I can verify these events, although I had been through the re-indoctrination year in 1976-77 with my second corps group after 3 years on the field. (more on this at another time).
I didn't know about these events. Thanks for posting, every time a little sunshine hits the way international / Wierwille's past it dismantles Rosie's efforts to deify the bum.
OldSkool.....twi has a way of re-writing history and lots slips thru the cracks when it doesn't polish their image.
From what I remember, this 4th corps group (18-20?) were the last group to be "Re-Called" for more training. I don't remember
another group, like the 5th corps grads......but it might have.
The real strange thing about this "re-education camp at hq".......these 4th corps were given basic training, again. You know,
aerobic points, punctuality at every meeting, lots of meetings, no deep-dialogue or questioning......in other words, same drill.
According to my talks with Steve, my unit was next to his..........it was demeaning intentionally!
That's one of the dirty little secrets at hq........the agenda is to KEEP YOU SUBORDINATE, ALWAYS!
That's one of the dirty little secrets at hq........the agenda is to KEEP YOU SUBORDINATE, ALWAYS!
YEPPP!!! I found out first hand how they come after you when you question them or state what you feel you need to do for the betterment of your own life. Rosie had me harassed for months in an all out onslaught to get me back in line. When I never cracked (giving them a reason to oust me,) she heaped on a punishment assignment. Needless to say I got my family set up in our new city and immediately split!
I can verify these events, although I had been through the re-indoctrination year in 1976-77 with my second corps group after 3 years on the field. (more on this at another time).
Thanks penworks.....looking forward to your info on this 2nd Corps re-indoctrination.
YEPPP!!! I found out first hand how they come after you when you question them or state what you feel you need to do for the betterment of your own life. Rosie had me harassed for months in an all out onslaught to get me back in line. When I never cracked (giving them a reason to oust me,) she heaped on a punishment assignment. Needless to say I got my family set up in our new city and immediately split!
Yeah.....I always attribute getting away from twi like JUMPING OFF A MOVING TRAIN. You have to plan ahead and look for the right time
for you and your family. Preferably, you can jump and find a "soft spot and roll to safety." It doesn't always work. Sometimes, a
spouse doesn't want to jump when you want to jump, or visa versa. What about the kids? What about finances? What about twi's message
machine to discredit you and/or put a wedge between you and other family members in twi?
IMO....many who EXIT twi have thought about it for months, if not years! As confrontation escalates, one either submits OR begins
taking steps to plot his escape.
In 1978.....when my Limb coordinator, Rev. J0hn Cl@y (4th corps) exited twi, I didn't understand it much.
Sometimes, a spouse doesn't want to jump when you want to jump, or visa versa. What about the kids?
John Rupp cornered me one morning as work was starting so we could go visit my wife at home. He tried SO freaking hard to get us in disagreement on what we were doing. I mean his intent was so obvious - DIVIDE AND CONQUER! I don't think he was expecting what he found. My wife (thankfully) was just as strong in the direction WE had chosen to better our family as me. My son was a toddler at the time and I am glad I did not linger for him to become indoctrinated and dependent on the way international for anything.
He will not know about the way international until he is old enough for cult education/re-education.
He tried SO freaking hard to get us in disagreement on what we were doing. I mean his intent was so obvious - DIVIDE AND CONQUER!
I actually have seen this many times with how these Pharisees operate. They go in with an agenda like you said to divide and conquer. They try and stir up any doubt or disagreement in a married couple. Of course, with ANY healthy married couple there isn't just ONE PERSPECTIVE, there's two, and they may see things a little bit differently but agree on a direction and on the relationship. The Pharisees of TWI will jump on that, and especially be cruel to the women who are supposed to be the no opinion submissive little doormats, all in the interest of sowing division, dischord, and discontent. If they have any margin of success they will immediately declare victory loudly and proudly and thus declare the married couple as having marriage problems. In all of the leadership positions, there is pressure to act like a Pharisee and to go in and be a hatchet man in this fashion towards people who have fallen out of favor. This is not an isolated type of thing, but is widespread across the board. Those that go along with being hatchet men in accordance with the leaders' suggestions get promoted and advanced. Those that refuse do not, and are marked.
I know of at least one married couple that they attacked in this fashion that led to their divorce. Many years later they actually got back together and did another ceremony for re-instating their marriage vows.
What kind of sick b@st@rds do this kind of thing? What kind of honest genuine Christian minister would sow division, dischord, and discontent in a married couple under their authority? Is this Jesus Christ's example?
I actually have seen this many times with how these Pharisees operate. They go in with an agenda like you said to divide and conquer. They try and stir up any doubt or disagreement in a married couple.
And......if twi can WEDGE a separation between husband and wife, then TWI'S AUTHORITY IS NEEDED AGAIN
and back under twi's subordination the couple go.
I repeat...."Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." [Religion/Political--hierarchy]
In 1997, Rosalie Rivenbark was VP and John Reyn0lds was Sec/Tr......it wasn't looking good for twi.
Rosalie......divorced, 2 sons, one did some jail time
J. Reyn0lds..divorced, no relationship with his son..remarried.
Yeah....THOSE kind of people as trustees in "christian org." <_<
One more thing -- not just being divorced, but ACTIVELY ADVOCATING the divorce of others if they
do not tow the party line of twi. That's pathetic.
It seems that STFI did this to JAL. Being so programmed by TWI, he immediately divorced his wife without even considering how ludicrous it was to follow that command. You cannot grow an organization from a rotten root, and this example portrays how the offshoots have carried the evil with them.
And let me crystal clear on this one very important point: HE WAS DOING THIS ON ROSALIE'S BEHALF!!!!
Of course he was. That's because that little ole blue-haired witch has been in a legal deposition once, and so now is too chicken $h1t to do any of her own dirty work. She has other stupid tools do it for her.
I can see why. I can see the deposition from another lawsuit now - "So, you being critical of this other couple's marriage, let's talk about yours." "What happened to your marriage, anyway?" "How many kids did you have together?" "Are you still in contact with them?" "Did you really mark and avoid your own children?" "How about relationships after your marriage - have you ever had any?" "How about your relationship with Donna M? How would you characterize that? Is that a relationship?"
Yeah, she better run and hide all that. Because a day is coming when the sins in her private life and the corruption and evil that's in her heart will not be spoken in private behind closed doors but shouted from the rooftops. It's one thing for sin of that nature and skeletons to be in people's closets. But not when they sit and judge others supposedly according to the law, but themselves are not subject to the law. God will expose that for what it is. And the people that traded their life for her favor will be ashamed.
At least, this was twi policy.....perhaps its changed in the past few years.
So, in essence..."active corps" means DO what twi says, when they say to do it! You only stay a corps graduate
as long as you OBEY THE RULES OF CONSISTENT INDOCTRINATION.
These meetings are still required and attendance is taken. Yep - way corpse at HQ report to the auditorium, find their name on a list, and check it off. Way corpse on the field report in via the way tree.
These meetings are still required and attendance is taken. Yep - way corpse at HQ report to the auditorium, find their name on a list, and check it off. Way corpse on the field report in via the way tree.
After all, it is VERY important that all Corps learn once again how to read the label on a can of food.
After all, it is VERY important that all Corps learn once again how to read the label on a can of food.
OMG! Those meetings were the absolute worst. I will never forget L!nd@ C0ult3r's "sharing" on bowel movements and how one indication of good fiber intake is a nice s shape left behind in the bowl.
One corps mtg.....martindale shared in-length about stepping out of the shower and how he dried off thoroughly
even drying between each toe. What spiritual depth and insight.....blech.
Whoah! <_<
And, wierwille....spent time teaching the significance why the toilet paper should unroll over the top
rather than under the roll. I mean, you just had to be there!
Oh, don't get me started. During my time in-residence while assigned housekeeping I was "fully instructed" on the proper way to put the paper on the spool and especially how to do the all important courtesy fold.
Y'know, Sky, I think this year was the entire 4th corps. The year was split in two - first 1/2 in Indiana, and 1/2 back at the Way Nash in New Knoxville.
One of the stated reasons was to help with the Family Corps there, the other as part of "continuing" the WC training.
It was a very difficult year I would agree, on several fronts. And VPW wasn't there all the time, he came and went. RC coordinator was Bob M, with Dave S-ge the 4th corps coordinator.
By this time I'd say the Corps program was bottomed out. I'm sure others would disagree or feel that it had never had value but as far as the effort being made it was really really really all over the road, disorganized between Kansas, Colorado, Indiana, whatever they were doing in New Mexico and of course back at the ranch in New Knoxville. The lack of a coherent enterprise wide vision was evident and there was all of that movement from one campus to another throughout the residence training, it was inefficient to say the least, and a mess from an educational standpoint. "WOW", sure, but how the effort was actually stacking up to make a significant contribution to that was unclear to put it mildly. You don't need all that crap to do that. And if the program was failing on different fronts so badly the previous graduates were thought to need further training - well that spoke for itself. Considering to look at it for what was really "broken" though had already started as you state and I do think many of us were at cross roads of various types.
Steve S and I talked about this a couple times, and the idea that this put him and others in neutral and that nothing of great value was being done or being offered, "nice" on some counts but wasted time on most others. It just wasn't working, although the machine was moving forward. In fact at that point it seemed clear that a Way Corps program was no longer necessary, if the original goals were still being acted towards The Way was an organization dedicated to sustaining itself, and all that goes with that, the politics, bureaucracy, obfuscation etc. etc. etc.
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This statement and mindset, and other similar ones I've heard (i.e. - "We're going to run on the rails that brought us here") is interesting. Of course it is never questioned as not being the "wisdom
OldSkool
I didn't know about these events. Thanks for posting, every time a little sunshine hits the way international / Wierwille's past it dismantles Rosie's efforts to deify the bum.
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penworks
I can verify these events, although I had been through the re-indoctrination year in 1976-77 with my second corps group after 3 years on the field. (more on this at another time).
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skyrider
OldSkool.....twi has a way of re-writing history and lots slips thru the cracks when it doesn't polish their image.
From what I remember, this 4th corps group (18-20?) were the last group to be "Re-Called" for more training. I don't remember
another group, like the 5th corps grads......but it might have.
The real strange thing about this "re-education camp at hq".......these 4th corps were given basic training, again. You know,
aerobic points, punctuality at every meeting, lots of meetings, no deep-dialogue or questioning......in other words, same drill.
According to my talks with Steve, my unit was next to his..........it was demeaning intentionally!
That's one of the dirty little secrets at hq........the agenda is to KEEP YOU SUBORDINATE, ALWAYS!
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OldSkool
YEPPP!!! I found out first hand how they come after you when you question them or state what you feel you need to do for the betterment of your own life. Rosie had me harassed for months in an all out onslaught to get me back in line. When I never cracked (giving them a reason to oust me,) she heaped on a punishment assignment. Needless to say I got my family set up in our new city and immediately split!
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skyrider
Thanks penworks.....looking forward to your info on this 2nd Corps re-indoctrination.
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skyrider
Yeah.....I always attribute getting away from twi like JUMPING OFF A MOVING TRAIN. You have to plan ahead and look for the right time
for you and your family. Preferably, you can jump and find a "soft spot and roll to safety." It doesn't always work. Sometimes, a
spouse doesn't want to jump when you want to jump, or visa versa. What about the kids? What about finances? What about twi's message
machine to discredit you and/or put a wedge between you and other family members in twi?
IMO....many who EXIT twi have thought about it for months, if not years! As confrontation escalates, one either submits OR begins
taking steps to plot his escape.
In 1978.....when my Limb coordinator, Rev. J0hn Cl@y (4th corps) exited twi, I didn't understand it much.
BUT NOW I DO.
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OldSkool
John Rupp cornered me one morning as work was starting so we could go visit my wife at home. He tried SO freaking hard to get us in disagreement on what we were doing. I mean his intent was so obvious - DIVIDE AND CONQUER! I don't think he was expecting what he found. My wife (thankfully) was just as strong in the direction WE had chosen to better our family as me. My son was a toddler at the time and I am glad I did not linger for him to become indoctrinated and dependent on the way international for anything.
He will not know about the way international until he is old enough for cult education/re-education.
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skyrider
IMO....twi's re-education camp only aggravated marital commitments. Quite often, the wife needed to help with children
while the husband was spurred in other directions.
Twi defied change.....changing and evolving with the family unit. The cycle of growth, school, identity, relationships,
challenges, parental and family unity, etc. were squelched at the behest of twi priorities, always!
Those who savored the joy of coddling babies, swingsets, outdoor fun, picnics, family traditions, building memories, planning
for success, kids' college, etc.......was taboo in twi.
Ya see.....wierwille's family was ELEVATED ON HIGH....wierwille threw a huge double-ring wedding reception at hq when his two kids,
JP & Sara, married their spouses. Some were drunk as the drinks kept being poured near the Clubhouse. Time to celebrate.....the
last two wierwille kids were getting married off! The narcissist bubble of "all things wierwille" had no end.
Wierwille's Focal Point of Wierwille Doctrine -------- I
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chockfull
I actually have seen this many times with how these Pharisees operate. They go in with an agenda like you said to divide and conquer. They try and stir up any doubt or disagreement in a married couple. Of course, with ANY healthy married couple there isn't just ONE PERSPECTIVE, there's two, and they may see things a little bit differently but agree on a direction and on the relationship. The Pharisees of TWI will jump on that, and especially be cruel to the women who are supposed to be the no opinion submissive little doormats, all in the interest of sowing division, dischord, and discontent. If they have any margin of success they will immediately declare victory loudly and proudly and thus declare the married couple as having marriage problems. In all of the leadership positions, there is pressure to act like a Pharisee and to go in and be a hatchet man in this fashion towards people who have fallen out of favor. This is not an isolated type of thing, but is widespread across the board. Those that go along with being hatchet men in accordance with the leaders' suggestions get promoted and advanced. Those that refuse do not, and are marked.
I know of at least one married couple that they attacked in this fashion that led to their divorce. Many years later they actually got back together and did another ceremony for re-instating their marriage vows.
What kind of sick b@st@rds do this kind of thing? What kind of honest genuine Christian minister would sow division, dischord, and discontent in a married couple under their authority? Is this Jesus Christ's example?
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skyrider
And......if twi can WEDGE a separation between husband and wife, then TWI'S AUTHORITY IS NEEDED AGAIN
and back under twi's subordination the couple go.
I repeat...."Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod." [Religion/Political--hierarchy]
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OldSkool
And let me crystal clear on this one very important point: HE WAS DOING THIS ON ROSALIE'S BEHALF!!!!
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skyrider
In 1997, Rosalie Rivenbark was VP and John Reyn0lds was Sec/Tr......it wasn't looking good for twi.
Rosalie......divorced, 2 sons, one did some jail time
J. Reyn0lds..divorced, no relationship with his son..remarried.
Yeah....THOSE kind of people as trustees in "christian org." <_<
One more thing -- not just being divorced, but ACTIVELY ADVOCATING the divorce of others if they
do not tow the party line of twi. That's pathetic.
.
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skyrider
Clarification......"this 4th corps group 'invited' to hq" numbered around 18-20 or so.
I believe that there were approximately 45 men and women who graduated from the 4th corps.....and 75 graduated 5th corps.
The 6th corps was when the numbers really started escalating.
Maybe someone will post more exact numbers.....but that's what I remember.
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Rejoice
It seems that STFI did this to JAL. Being so programmed by TWI, he immediately divorced his wife without even considering how ludicrous it was to follow that command. You cannot grow an organization from a rotten root, and this example portrays how the offshoots have carried the evil with them.
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chockfull
Of course he was. That's because that little ole blue-haired witch has been in a legal deposition once, and so now is too chicken $h1t to do any of her own dirty work. She has other stupid tools do it for her.
I can see why. I can see the deposition from another lawsuit now - "So, you being critical of this other couple's marriage, let's talk about yours." "What happened to your marriage, anyway?" "How many kids did you have together?" "Are you still in contact with them?" "Did you really mark and avoid your own children?" "How about relationships after your marriage - have you ever had any?" "How about your relationship with Donna M? How would you characterize that? Is that a relationship?"
Yeah, she better run and hide all that. Because a day is coming when the sins in her private life and the corruption and evil that's in her heart will not be spoken in private behind closed doors but shouted from the rooftops. It's one thing for sin of that nature and skeletons to be in people's closets. But not when they sit and judge others supposedly according to the law, but themselves are not subject to the law. God will expose that for what it is. And the people that traded their life for her favor will be ashamed.
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skyrider
For those who many not know.......there were plenty of good men and women in the 4th corps. Several were involved in Way Productions
and some were serving in administrative positions at hq. I believe D0nna M. was a graduate of the 4th corps, as well. So, when
wierwille had that "re-education camp at hq"......he wasn't targeting the hq folk. Wierwille was "re-calling" FIELD LEADERSHIP....
those who were far away and "spreading their wings" sorta speak. Did vp think they were going to fly away?
You know.......its one thing to go thru an inrez program and, then, take yearly field assignments for twi. But to be re-called
back into a boot-camp scenario?......really? The condescension was so thick around hq, you could cut it with a knife. Did wierwille
really think he could brow-beat these people into submission?
These corps grads were NOT the property of twi!
Year after year, individual sovereignty was stripped away as twi encroached on one's personal boundaries. No, these 4th corps grads
did NOT have to accept wierwille's "invite" (command).....but then, how do they say "no thanks" and stay clear of wierwille's ire?
It was manipulation....straight up! St#ve S@nn could smell it and he didn't like it at all.
Several years later (1986).......Rev. S@nn was walking twi grounds with Rev. BG Leonard.
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skyrider
From my experience, I held more confidence in field leadership who were daily involved in the lives of "everyday people"
rather than fawning staffers whose job description was to support wierwille. Like someone once said about D. Dunc@n's
comment about vpw...."He started believing his own PR releases."
With each passing year, wierwille's twi was strengthening their CENTRAL COMMAND HQ....and Region/Limb/Branch leaders
were study group coordinators for the "mighty teachings and wisdom that came down from on high" (cough, cough). And,
for all twi's bloviating of the nine manifestations......Why didn't the "man of God" lead by example????
Remember the hype? Wierwille's teachings were going to back down devil spirits! Way Productions' music was so powerful
that people would be delivered? Walking the very grounds of headquarters was healing? REALLY?? The absurdity of it all.
Twi's "beltway" was buying into the BS.......and it was being repeated over and over again.
IMO.....field leadership had the PULSE OF THE PEOPLE.
IMO.....field leadership saw the hypocrisy notching up.
IMO.....wierwille knew he needed to re-indoctrinate.
Just a thought.......Wouldn't a genuine leader go to his leadership and DEMONSTRATE THE POWER OF GOD FOR ALL TO SEE?
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skyrider
TWI found a new version of the Re-Education Camp at HQ to replace the wierwille model*
*All active corps grads are REQUIRED to participate in weekly corps phone hook-ups.
This practice started in 1989 as a "come-if-you-like" during those turbulent fog-years and
became a requirement around 1992.
Therefore......one is NEVER really a corps graduate of twi's program. He is always in training,
always an apprentice student of their indoctrination. The minute this corps grad REFUSES to attend these
corps meetings....he is dropped from active corps.
At least, this was twi policy.....perhaps its changed in the past few years.
So, in essence..."active corps" means DO what twi says, when they say to do it! You only stay a corps graduate
as long as you OBEY THE RULES OF CONSISTENT INDOCTRINATION.
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OldSkool
These meetings are still required and attendance is taken. Yep - way corpse at HQ report to the auditorium, find their name on a list, and check it off. Way corpse on the field report in via the way tree.
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chockfull
After all, it is VERY important that all Corps learn once again how to read the label on a can of food.
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OldSkool
OMG! Those meetings were the absolute worst. I will never forget L!nd@ C0ult3r's "sharing" on bowel movements and how one indication of good fiber intake is a nice s shape left behind in the bowl.
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skyrider
LOL.......talk about the bottom of the bowl.
One corps mtg.....martindale shared in-length about stepping out of the shower and how he dried off thoroughly
even drying between each toe. What spiritual depth and insight.....blech.
And, wierwille....spent time teaching the significance why the toilet paper should unroll over the top
rather than under the roll. I mean, you just had to be there!
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OldSkool
Whoah! <_<
Oh, don't get me started. During my time in-residence while assigned housekeeping I was "fully instructed" on the proper way to put the paper on the spool and especially how to do the all important courtesy fold.
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socks
Y'know, Sky, I think this year was the entire 4th corps. The year was split in two - first 1/2 in Indiana, and 1/2 back at the Way Nash in New Knoxville.
One of the stated reasons was to help with the Family Corps there, the other as part of "continuing" the WC training.
It was a very difficult year I would agree, on several fronts. And VPW wasn't there all the time, he came and went. RC coordinator was Bob M, with Dave S-ge the 4th corps coordinator.
By this time I'd say the Corps program was bottomed out. I'm sure others would disagree or feel that it had never had value but as far as the effort being made it was really really really all over the road, disorganized between Kansas, Colorado, Indiana, whatever they were doing in New Mexico and of course back at the ranch in New Knoxville. The lack of a coherent enterprise wide vision was evident and there was all of that movement from one campus to another throughout the residence training, it was inefficient to say the least, and a mess from an educational standpoint. "WOW", sure, but how the effort was actually stacking up to make a significant contribution to that was unclear to put it mildly. You don't need all that crap to do that. And if the program was failing on different fronts so badly the previous graduates were thought to need further training - well that spoke for itself. Considering to look at it for what was really "broken" though had already started as you state and I do think many of us were at cross roads of various types.
Steve S and I talked about this a couple times, and the idea that this put him and others in neutral and that nothing of great value was being done or being offered, "nice" on some counts but wasted time on most others. It just wasn't working, although the machine was moving forward. In fact at that point it seemed clear that a Way Corps program was no longer necessary, if the original goals were still being acted towards The Way was an organization dedicated to sustaining itself, and all that goes with that, the politics, bureaucracy, obfuscation etc. etc. etc.
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