I've got one old friend who currently fellowships with an Anglican group. He calls me occasionally and we talk. There were a couple of other people who stayed in touch but subsequently died. I'm not in touch with any of the splinter-group people I used to fellowship with.
The theory is simple. Well.. set aside what is impossible or improbable.. what is left may VERY LIKELY be the true facts..
I'm.. obnoxious. Or unbearable.. or.. not unsanitary or unwashed. I shower daily..
Maybe I snore far too much.. or make far too much noise when I open a bag of chips, or whatever.. I know my jaw is designed so as the noise of my chewing exceeds that of about 90 percent of the population..
In many ways I am socially.. undeveloped. In many ways, I can't set or demand boundaries.. I'm a frigging Hippie.
Sometimes I know too much, sometimes I know too little..
There are times I can see people's minds like seeing through water.. pick up with the same conversation we left off with two and a half years previously.. there are other times, for the life of me, I simply cannot remember names.
in other words, I think people in the old ministry felt FORCED to be friends, who otherwise would never choose to be.
I have even stranger theories as regards to boundaries. Nothing material in this world is worth fighting over.. you are only fighting over ownership of a momentary illusion..
For what it's worth, Ham....it's not you. I know quite a few folks in these environs and only one contacted me directly. That individual wanted me to go back with her. "You could get your 30 year certificate" she said excitedly.
There were a couple of others who called and invited me to lunch, but that's ttheir thing. It never was - - even before when were were all involved up to our chins,
Life is so much better now that I can pick my friends and also now that I can decide how to spend my time.
Pretty sad to me. Only a very few folks I thought were true blue life long friends. Thanks to facebook and this place and an email group I hear from some, but interestingly, most of the extwi folks I am in touch with now I did not know during the twi years.
On the internet I use my real name, Kit Sober so if anyone wants to contact me they can, and my kitsober@aol.com email address I had since the beginning of computer time, so I know it's not that I am hiding out.
Most insightful thread, this subject has been a concern to me for many years. Would love to understand it.
There were a few people that I really became friends with in TWI. The longer I stayed in, and the higher up the ladder I climbed, the more conditional the friendships became...
I didn't go very far up the ladder. I coordinated a twig here and there.. went wow once. Some "friends" climbed up the ladder, never to be seen again..
I have had one person in the last year look me up on facebook. He did not climb far up the ladder either.
Years ago before that, I had somebody in an offshoot look me up to see if I wanted to go to his church..
How many of them have actually looked you up within the last ten years? Even if they have been long gone from the organization?
As far as I am concerned, the count is very close to zero.
That's the number I have. Zero.
Not that I had throngs of friends then, or now following me around. But I've made attempts to reach out and even with today's social media, facebook, google +, twitter, etc, no one's ever reached out to me. "I'm not very well known" is my hashtag in my media circles. No coincidence.
I think people in the old ministry felt FORCED to be friends, who otherwise would never choose to be.
I would agree with this Ham. That would explain why I never felt any true loss when I left that place. There were never any true friends, said with odd disdain.
you mean I lost all my old fake friends in the ministry? no big loss. they were never really my friends anyway. God has replaced fake friends with real friends.
people in the ministry get all scared to leave because they would "lose the household". it's fake. it's faux. few to none of those people would even say hello to you if you decided to go to another church.
I've been thinking about this quite a bit. I went looking for 3 people and found 1 and another one of those found me. Some one found me but I wasn't really into going to church with her (an off shoot twig).
I didn't go looking for a lot of folks that I knew. I guess I just didn't have anything in common with them except twi business. I guess the same is true of me with them. I used to feel bad about that. It lasted about 3 days and everything was fine.
one of old friends I initiated the reunion. The person claimed to be going through some kind of life altering experience. However. It was not Death. That is what it takes to change.. something, somehow has to die..
but no. Somehow the person was able to incorporate the old beliefs in a new structure..
my question was. How is what you believe now, then, in any way really different?
Old wineskins generally cannot contain new wine.
the person pretty much ignored what I was saying as nonsense..
In my opinion. A life altering experience would be to wake up one morning, or to take one brief glimpse into some kind of blinding light.. and come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING one once believed, is just, plain, wrong.
Everything one believes dissolved in some kind of Cosmic Sea of light..
Living in a commune type of setting (FellowLaborers) drove this idea home for me. There were several awakening moments, moments when you seem to be an outside observer of yourself, baffled by what you see, wondering how you happened to be there.
In my opinion. A life altering experience would be to wake up one morning, or to take one brief glimpse into some kind of blinding light.. and come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING one once believed, is just, plain, wrong.
Everything one believes dissolved in some kind of Cosmic Sea of light..
you mean I lost all my old fake friends in the ministry? no big loss. they were never really my friends anyway. God has replaced fake friends with real friends.
people in the ministry get all scared to leave because they would "lose the household". it's fake. it's faux. few to none of those people would even say hello to you if you decided to go to another church.
You said it, chockfull!
When people are "in" and they think of leaving, they think they will lose everything. The truth is, they've ALREADY lost everything by being in. By leaving, there's everything to be gained: freedom, reason, confidence and genuine friendships!
I have basically 7 friends from TWI that I am still in contact with. And we are in communication quite frequently. Five out of the seven, were leadership for me either at the twig or branch level. But, All five of them have become friends of mine after TWI. Here's the kicker.....five out of seven were Corps. I was never in the corps and I always thought that odd that I was so connected with them, and still am.....though our relationship as you might expect, has changed from the leadership/follower status to one of friendship. And I have to say, they are my closest friends that I have today.
I have few exway I've met here that I would consider friends. I have a lot of exway on my friends list on facebook.. a lot of them are the locals here. I tested my hypothesis last weekend. I posted an open invitation to a free chili and wine extravaganza. I think this would be equivalent to a well-stocked bar putting a "free beer" sign out in the street..
How many do you think came?
so. If I can't even bribe somebody with the promise of free beer..
I'm not anywhere even near wallowing in self-pity here. I find this to be absolutely fascinating..
I got a few "likes" from friends mostly who are exway, whom I met outside of the ministry. I didn't expect them to drop everything and run from two, three and four states away.
The two here who might possibly have come.. work weekends and probably never saw the invitation..
maybe I have achieved the mark and avoid designation among those who attend the offshoots around here.
I have few exway I've met here that I would consider friends. I have a lot of exway on my friends list on facebook.. a lot of them are the locals here. I tested my hypothesis last weekend. I posted an open invitation to a free chili and wine extravaganza. I think this would be equivalent to a well-stocked bar putting a "free beer" sign out in the street.. :biglaugh:/>/>
How many do you think came?
so. If I can't even bribe somebody with the promise of free beer..
:biglaugh:/>/>
I'm not anywhere even near wallowing in self-pity here. I find this to be absolutely fascinating..
I got a few "likes" from friends mostly who are exway, whom I met outside of the ministry. I didn't expect them to drop everything and run from two, three and four states away.
The two here who might possibly have come.. work weekends and probably never saw the invitation..
maybe I have achieved the mark and avoid designation among those who attend the offshoots around here.
I don't think it's you at all. I think it's part of the effect of twi we have not dealt with.
Pawtucket did a major work of bringing folks together, physically, having a nice time, but I don't know how much of that kept on after he kinda lost interest. I know meeting some of the Greasespot Café folks was a precious life experience I cherish.
I would come, except I hardly go out. Being deaf makes communication so difficult it is much easier to hide than to face the music (which I can't hear any longer). Being forced to interact with people is one of the main reasons I am so thankful to have found a job, which keeps me communicating and interacting with people. I don't know what it is that makes up for a hermit type of life, but I think that whatever it is, it came over many people when we left twi. I was thinking that maybe it was some kind of heart-break of trust we experienced. (I totally trusted in twi.)
Thinking about that heart-break, I have gone back to praying for "the healer of broken hearts" to mend shattered dreams once again, for me as well as for so many broken hearted folks who were once a part of twi.
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Steve Lortz
I've got one old friend who currently fellowships with an Anglican group. He calls me occasionally and we talk. There were a couple of other people who stayed in touch but subsequently died. I'm not in touch with any of the splinter-group people I used to fellowship with.
I'm interested in what your theories might be.
Love,
Steve
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Ham
The theory is simple. Well.. set aside what is impossible or improbable.. what is left may VERY LIKELY be the true facts..
I'm.. obnoxious. Or unbearable.. or.. not unsanitary or unwashed. I shower daily..
Maybe I snore far too much.. or make far too much noise when I open a bag of chips, or whatever.. I know my jaw is designed so as the noise of my chewing exceeds that of about 90 percent of the population..
In many ways I am socially.. undeveloped. In many ways, I can't set or demand boundaries.. I'm a frigging Hippie.
Sometimes I know too much, sometimes I know too little..
There are times I can see people's minds like seeing through water.. pick up with the same conversation we left off with two and a half years previously.. there are other times, for the life of me, I simply cannot remember names.
in other words, I think people in the old ministry felt FORCED to be friends, who otherwise would never choose to be.
well, that is a description of the theory.
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Ham
Maybe in a previous life I was a monster.. and whatever retribution is involved followed me into this life..
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Ham
I have even stranger theories as regards to boundaries. Nothing material in this world is worth fighting over.. you are only fighting over ownership of a momentary illusion..
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krys
For what it's worth, Ham....it's not you. I know quite a few folks in these environs and only one contacted me directly. That individual wanted me to go back with her. "You could get your 30 year certificate" she said excitedly.
There were a couple of others who called and invited me to lunch, but that's ttheir thing. It never was - - even before when were were all involved up to our chins,
Life is so much better now that I can pick my friends and also now that I can decide how to spend my time.
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Ham
I'm glad you are more confident than I am.
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waysider
"We sure do love you. You're always welcome at The Way. Bless your little heart."
Tears are running
They're all running down your dress
And your friends, baby
They treat you like a guest
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Kit Sober
Pretty sad to me. Only a very few folks I thought were true blue life long friends. Thanks to facebook and this place and an email group I hear from some, but interestingly, most of the extwi folks I am in touch with now I did not know during the twi years.
On the internet I use my real name, Kit Sober so if anyone wants to contact me they can, and my kitsober@aol.com email address I had since the beginning of computer time, so I know it's not that I am hiding out.
Most insightful thread, this subject has been a concern to me for many years. Would love to understand it.
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Steve Lortz
There were a few people that I really became friends with in TWI. The longer I stayed in, and the higher up the ladder I climbed, the more conditional the friendships became...
Love,
Steve
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Ham
I didn't go very far up the ladder. I coordinated a twig here and there.. went wow once. Some "friends" climbed up the ladder, never to be seen again..
I have had one person in the last year look me up on facebook. He did not climb far up the ladder either.
Years ago before that, I had somebody in an offshoot look me up to see if I wanted to go to his church..
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waysider
Years ago before that, I had somebody in an offshoot look me up to see if I wanted to go to his church..
Yeah, I got that, too. Not to a hockey game or out for a couple of beers....just "Come and join my church."....no thank you.
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Human without the bean
That's the number I have. Zero.
Not that I had throngs of friends then, or now following me around. But I've made attempts to reach out and even with today's social media, facebook, google +, twitter, etc, no one's ever reached out to me. "I'm not very well known" is my hashtag in my media circles. No coincidence.
I would agree with this Ham. That would explain why I never felt any true loss when I left that place. There were never any true friends, said with odd disdain.
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chockfull
you mean I lost all my old fake friends in the ministry? no big loss. they were never really my friends anyway. God has replaced fake friends with real friends.
people in the ministry get all scared to leave because they would "lose the household". it's fake. it's faux. few to none of those people would even say hello to you if you decided to go to another church.
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krys
I've been thinking about this quite a bit. I went looking for 3 people and found 1 and another one of those found me. Some one found me but I wasn't really into going to church with her (an off shoot twig).
I didn't go looking for a lot of folks that I knew. I guess I just didn't have anything in common with them except twi business. I guess the same is true of me with them. I used to feel bad about that. It lasted about 3 days and everything was fine.
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waysider
In the real world, friends drift apart over time. In the *ministry*, it's a real cold turkey kind of event.
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Ham
Ha! No kidding..
one of old friends I initiated the reunion. The person claimed to be going through some kind of life altering experience. However. It was not Death. That is what it takes to change.. something, somehow has to die..
but no. Somehow the person was able to incorporate the old beliefs in a new structure..
my question was. How is what you believe now, then, in any way really different?
Old wineskins generally cannot contain new wine.
the person pretty much ignored what I was saying as nonsense..
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Ham
In my opinion. A life altering experience would be to wake up one morning, or to take one brief glimpse into some kind of blinding light.. and come to the conclusion that EVERYTHING one once believed, is just, plain, wrong.
Everything one believes dissolved in some kind of Cosmic Sea of light..
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waysider
Living in a commune type of setting (FellowLaborers) drove this idea home for me. There were several awakening moments, moments when you seem to be an outside observer of yourself, baffled by what you see, wondering how you happened to be there.
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waysider
I think
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Steve Lortz
You said it, chockfull!
When people are "in" and they think of leaving, they think they will lose everything. The truth is, they've ALREADY lost everything by being in. By leaving, there's everything to be gained: freedom, reason, confidence and genuine friendships!
Love,
Steve
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newlife
I have basically 7 friends from TWI that I am still in contact with. And we are in communication quite frequently. Five out of the seven, were leadership for me either at the twig or branch level. But, All five of them have become friends of mine after TWI. Here's the kicker.....five out of seven were Corps. I was never in the corps and I always thought that odd that I was so connected with them, and still am.....though our relationship as you might expect, has changed from the leadership/follower status to one of friendship. And I have to say, they are my closest friends that I have today.
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Ham
I have few exway I've met here that I would consider friends. I have a lot of exway on my friends list on facebook.. a lot of them are the locals here. I tested my hypothesis last weekend. I posted an open invitation to a free chili and wine extravaganza. I think this would be equivalent to a well-stocked bar putting a "free beer" sign out in the street..
How many do you think came?
so. If I can't even bribe somebody with the promise of free beer..
I'm not anywhere even near wallowing in self-pity here. I find this to be absolutely fascinating..
I got a few "likes" from friends mostly who are exway, whom I met outside of the ministry. I didn't expect them to drop everything and run from two, three and four states away.
The two here who might possibly have come.. work weekends and probably never saw the invitation..
maybe I have achieved the mark and avoid designation among those who attend the offshoots around here.
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Kit Sober
LINK: finding a friend after a long while
I became discouraged thinking about this (the absence of true friends). I have had a couple, but they passed away.
Then I saw this on the aol news and was encouraged. There is no end to the time of our life we may find a friend.
Thanks for this topic.
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Kit Sober
I don't think it's you at all. I think it's part of the effect of twi we have not dealt with.
Pawtucket did a major work of bringing folks together, physically, having a nice time, but I don't know how much of that kept on after he kinda lost interest. I know meeting some of the Greasespot Café folks was a precious life experience I cherish.
I would come, except I hardly go out. Being deaf makes communication so difficult it is much easier to hide than to face the music (which I can't hear any longer). Being forced to interact with people is one of the main reasons I am so thankful to have found a job, which keeps me communicating and interacting with people. I don't know what it is that makes up for a hermit type of life, but I think that whatever it is, it came over many people when we left twi. I was thinking that maybe it was some kind of heart-break of trust we experienced. (I totally trusted in twi.)
Thinking about that heart-break, I have gone back to praying for "the healer of broken hearts" to mend shattered dreams once again, for me as well as for so many broken hearted folks who were once a part of twi.
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