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Splinter Cults are WORSE........not better


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Those who intentionally hide and dismiss wierwille's plagiarism, research foibles, and sexual predation AND have made it their business to lord over others.........THOSE SPLINTER GROUPS are worse!  At

Same pattern.........always. Rivals wait for opportunistic time Head Minister passes away or retires When not promoted to big chair....plots strategy Abides time to "break

Back when lcm drove off 80% of twi in 88-89 with his "line in the sand",  a fellow with the screen-name of Cesar Salad said he thought the biggest problem with lcm was that he wasn't able to get humbl

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As I've said before, it took me over 15 years to come to this site and then join and post, and I only pop in sporadically and then post in spurts.  The same goes for the R&R Facebook group: I had asked to join two years ago  and had made candid remarks in one of the original posts and left it. The good thing to come of it was that Lewellyn Hallett friended me on FB.  Prompted by remarks I read here yesterday, and remembering what a total smarmy gratuitous kiss up Michael Fort is, I decided to take a peek today. Sure enough, a Way-style sanitizing has been done of all the comments there. Comments have been disabled retroactively for two plus years, deleted except for those that reinforce the desired narrative, and as stated here, everyone just echoes the rhetoric of TWI from the past 52 plus years.  Skimming through the intact remarks, I thought that it's a shame it's a closed group. A link could be posted at a poison control emergency site when inducing vomiting is appropriate, because reading those remarks would certainly do the trick.  The only detraction is that bulimics would find it accessible.  How willfully and deliberately F-ing stupid can people be?  I left the group today. I don't care that they have 896 members now and maybe someone I really liked and cared about might be among them, I'm not going to go through the members list.

"Oh I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused..."

Elvis Costello

The Angels Want To Wear My Red Shoes

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Thank you Kathy Niclaus for an honest and informative post!

i knew John Shroyer well. I was the Midwest Region Coord. from October 1977 until I took over the funky trunk in May, 1980. During that time, Jim Milne was the LC of Ohio, having followed Howie and Lynn Yeremian (2nd Corpse). I was in the 4th corpse with Jim and Nancy, and lived in the same trailer with them 3 different times. Jim was a wonderful, kind-hearted guy. However, he wasn’t the “sharpest tool in the shed” so to speak. Nancy, OTOH, was quite a smart and disciplined, well-educated person. On their Interim year, they were assigned as College WOW coordinators under Bill Winegarner and Dr. John Somerville. It was Nancy who had the smarts and the acumen to run everything and anything they were ever assigneded to. Jim was the affable and personable front man. But, he was a desperate alcoholic. Concealed well for a long time, but it became painfully obvious during Jim’s tenure as OH LC. When the 4th corpse came back for it’s “sabbatical” year in 1979-80, Jim’s “problen” was “comfronted” by dickhead Dave Standage, nominal 4th corpse coordinator. Upon completion of that year, Jim and Nancy were assigned as limb coords of RI. I was the newly assigned trunk guy, and was really rooting for Jim! Unfortunately, Jim was unable to beat his alcohol addiction at that time, and I was forced to replace him as RI LC. It was not a pleasant experience, since, as I said before, i had lived with Jim and Nancy for 18 of the 24 months we were in- Rez. I chose Bob and Kathy Mirabito, 6th Corpse Cleveland Area coords to assume the limb responsibilities, and they did a good job, imo. Honest, faithful, reliable, and good communicators. Jim continued to spiral downward, and, unfortunately, he and Nancy wound up divorcing.

During all this, John Shroyer and his wife were the Sidney Area Coordinators (HQ Area) of OH. They had been mainstays there for years. John’s family were all on staff. His mom, Miney, and his brother Danny, were long time staffers when i arrived in 1973 for my first in-rez year. His sister Elaine was married to Kurt  Fiser  and in the 3rd corpse, my “elder corpse”. I spent lots of time in the limb of OH when Jim M. had his troubles. John was an integral and important part of the TWI OH operation, and had been for a long time. I got to know him and Marilee well, and enjoyed a number of good fellowship times with them. Genuine salt-of-the-Earth, compassionate, dedicated, and faithful Christians, held in deserved good reputation amongst all the believers.

However, when I resigned and left HQ in December, 1986, John jumped on the slander, hatespeech, and lying bandwagon the HQ hierarchy under the control of Geer demanded. Personally, that was as hurtful as all the other “good friends and colleagues” who hypocritically and foolishly towed the TWIt company line. 

When he went to FL, his toxic rhetoric and “company man” persona garnered him a deserved crappy reputation. Eventually, he grew tired of spewing the BOT BS, and denying the facts of their spiritual, corporate, and psycho-emotional abuse, and stood up against them. The formation of CFF followed as recorded above.

Not long afterward, Wayne and Fern Clapp tesigned their lofty position as Indiana Campus and Family Corpse Coordinators (and Wayne as “research assistant” to da forehead). 

As funky trunk guy, I had the joy of working with Wayne when he was the LC of Iowa. His assignment to that position had been a matter of intense disputes at placements in 1980, between myself and John Butler (newly assigned North Central Region Coord) and Da forehead and Beence Fiinegan. Butler and I were highly in favor of assigning Wayne and Ferne as IA LCs. Martindale and Finnegan both mocked Wayne for being a big “wuss” for ‘crying all the time” at moving moments during his ministering/teaching to the believers. They also derided him for being a grad of the Harvard Theological Seminary, casting that bigoted TWIt bias against “the denominations” at the BS “phony intellectual seed-boys” at Harvard Divinity.

But, Butler and I were adamant, and we stood up with a pretty fiery defense of Wayne’s “emotional weakness” and demanded that our  request take precedence over the in-rez corpse coordinator critics. Butler and I prevailed, and Wayne and Ferne put IA on the TWIt map solidly for the first time.

However, when I resigned on 12/1/1986, I was kept under “house arrest” with my family in our trailer for 14 days, until Geer and the Board Of Morons could figure out “how to handle” my resignation and departure from HQ.

During all that time, and up through the founding and expansion of CFF, Shroyer and Clapp were vociferously and maliciously slandering and libeling me along with TWI and the other offshoots, as being “a seed boy”, “the worst adulterer the way has ever known”, and all the other sordid bullshit Geer and the Board of Morons were spewing daily. After all the time and stress we went through together in OH, and after all the heartfelt advocacy Butler and I put forth for the Clapps to be IA LCs, their lying and slander and unfounded personal attacks against me were most offensive and disheartening.

John died and never apologized nor spoke with me about the part he played in TWIt’s organized and vicious campaign of character assassination and defamation against me when I resigned. However, an opportunity presented itself for me to personally and privately confront Wayne on a number of cruel and unbiblical behaviors he participated in against me with the BOT. Surprisingly, Wayne accepted responsibility for the things I brought up, and, in an act of rare honesty and genuine humility, admitted to his errors, and apologized to me, and then resigned his position as the 2nd head of CFF. To this day, this courageous and true Christian act is the single finest example of authentic Biblical repentance I have seen on the part of ANY former TWIt leader. I will always respect and admire Wayne for this, and extend my sincerest regards and appreciation to him to this day.

During that same time frame, I had several long, honest, and rewarding conversations with Kevin and Sarah Gigou. I had known Kevin since my Interim year as Western Territory Coord of NC in 1974-1975. He was 16 and living in Valdese, NC, and TOTALLY AND BEAUTIFULLY “on fire” with God. Sarah was assigned down there after she graduated the 8th corpse, and they met and married. These conversations, along with the conversations with Wayne, are what prompted me to end my public campaign against CFF. As far as I was concerned, Wayne and the Guigous have fully met the scriptural requirements of the public and private repentance Jesus Christ himself taught and commanded in Matthew chapter 18. I remain respectful to them for this righteous action and grateful to them for their personal courage and dignity. Selah.

i do not agree with CFF on much of their espoused Christian doctrine. But, that’s true of my relationship with lots of Christian churches and denominations. However, because of the Righteous personal conduct of Wayne Clapp, and Kevin and Sarah Guigou, I have “declared a personal truce” toward CFF, but I remain adamantly opposed to their ”companion offshoot” in MS, SOWERS.

So, Kathy Niclaus......thanks again for your post. It inspired my recollection of the things I posted above. Though John Shroyer severely disappointed me, and died before we could restore our fellowship together, I have fond memories of the man I knew and worked with from 1977-1986. R.I.P. John. See you then.

Edited by DontWorryBeHappy
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I was in the Ministry from 75 onward, knew you as the Trunk coordinator, I know that when his sister and brother in law Elaine and Troy Watkins left the ministry around 86 John and she were not talking and that yes, he shiite talked a lot of people and was all hard arse. It was a very hurtful thing to Elaine that her brother treated her that way. Once he walked out on Corps night, he approached his sister and apologized and made up with her, and they were reunited, and she and Troy started attending the CFFM services. I'm not an attendee of theirs, as I said I was there when it started, but it started getting that rah-rah herd mentality and I didn't really get into it.  I did see an epiphany in John though, you could see remorse in him for drinking the Kool-Aid.  And unlike Lynn, and Finnegan, (who as far back as 2000 was spouting that he could counsel people on how to rid themselves of the spiritual causes of  being overweight and PTSD, etc), or Dan Moran, (who I was dragged to his house and it was like being in a 1974 time warp where he collects money and that's how he makes a living), with John starting the ministry wasn't his idea and it wasn't about the money.  Like I said, he had a real job.  I don't know, he probably had a Rolodex of people to apologize to, really.  I'm not rationalizing what he did, it was wrong.  I did spend  enough casual time with him in real conversations with him though when he was brutally honest about F ups that he regretted to know that he realized that he had bought the farm and had a lot of soul searching to do. 

Edited by Kathy Niclaus
my word was supplanted!
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On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 12:55 PM, Kathy Niclaus said:

As I've said before, it took me over 15 years to come to this site and then join and post, and I only pop in sporadically and then post in spurts.  The same goes for the R&R Facebook group: I had asked to join two years ago  and had made candid remarks in one of the original posts and left it. The good thing to come of it was that Lewellyn Hallett friended me on FB.  Prompted by remarks I read here yesterday, and remembering what a total smarmy gratuitous kiss up Michael Fort is, I decided to take a peek today. Sure enough, a Way-style sanitizing has been done of all the comments there. Comments have been disabled retroactively for two plus years, deleted except for those that reinforce the desired narrative, and as stated here, everyone just echoes the rhetoric of TWI from the past 52 plus years.  Skimming through the intact remarks, I thought that it's a shame it's a closed group. A link could be posted at a poison control emergency site when inducing vomiting is appropriate, because reading those remarks would certainly do the trick.  The only detraction is that bulimics would find it accessible.  How willfully and deliberately F-ing stupid can people be?  I left the group today. I don't care that they have 896 members now and maybe someone I really liked and cared about might be among them, I'm not going to go through the members list.

"Oh I used to be disgusted, and now I try to be amused..."

Elvis Costello

The Angels Want To Wear My Red Shoes

And.........So It Begins.

This R&R splinter group is sanitizing (censoring) the comments of others.  And, those 896 members (cough, cough) are still in the nest.......because they haven't learned how to fly.  But the time is nigh.....when many will stretch their wings, jump from the nest and fly away.

Maybe, in all their research ability.........they will research Mrs. Wierwille's book and find:

  1. Mrs. Wierwille sanitized the life and history of twi's founder, victor paul wierwille.
  2. The wierwille bloodline and history took great liberties (tweaking details to fit vpw's narrative).
  3. Wierwille coat of arms was three sea gulls......not three doves.  See how easy it is to tweak history!?
  4. Clearly, vpw plagiarized (stole) Leonard's class in 1953.....and deceptively, taught it as his own.
  5. The 1942 myth of twi's beginning was to preempt the questioning of wierwille as "founder."
  6. The Way Inc. was a SPLINTER GROUP.......from Leonard's research and work.
  7. In twi-lore, the India itinerary was heralded as "the great Christian Minister Dr. Wierwille visits India."
  8. Yet, Dr. I. S. Williams was president of the All-India Federation of Churches  and pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Church in Byculla, Bombay and devotee of Indian history  ..... was host to the wierwilles and opened the doors for vpw to speak.  Respect was given to Dr. Williams.......not the American pastor.
  9. Wierwille resigned (fired?) from the Van Wert Church in August 1957.......and the church board unanimously accepted his resignation.
  10. Twi began its first independent undertaking on Thursday December 19, 1957  [p. 219.....last paragraph].
  11. Money, money, money.......wierwille calculated that he needed 6 more families to tithe faithfully to pay his expenses [p. 228].
  12. From 1957-1967......people did not stick when wierwille taught those LIVE classes.  WHY?

After 45 years of twi..............why can't questions be asked?

Why are people black-listed for ASKING QUESTIONS?

What are they hiding?  Why is wierwille given a free pass and sanitized at every turn.  Could it be that it was stolen valor from other great ministers who did the work and walked the talk?  Yet, wierwille came riding in on the coattails of others and heavy-handedly purged those who questioned him and soft-talked the masses at big events.

Mrs. Wierwille's book......even though heavily-sanitized......exposes the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille to anyone who researches the details.

 

 

.

Edited by skyrider
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Seagulls? Oh that is too rich.  How perfect. Talk about the perfect animal to have on your family crest to exemplify your behavior.  Just two days ago I was warning a friend of mine who is visiting Catalina for the day not to walk around with food in her hand.  At the Jersey shore, seagulls have been known to steal an entire Philly cheese steak right out of someone's hand on the boardwalk. Wow, the only thing missing from that family crest is a poop emogi.

 

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2 hours ago, skyrider said:

And.........So It Begins.

This R&R splinter group is sanitizing (censoring) the comments of others.  And, those 896 members (cough, cough) are still in the nest.......because they haven't learned how to fly.  But the time is nigh.....when many will stretch their wings, jump from the nest and fly away.

Maybe, in all their research ability.........they will research Mrs. Wierwille's book and find:

  1. Mrs. Wierwille sanitized the life and history of twi's founder, victor paul wierwille.
  2. The wierwille bloodline and history took great liberties (tweaking details to fit vpw's narrative).
  3. Wierwille coat of arms was three sea gulls......not three doves.  See how easy it is to tweak history!?
  4. Clearly, vpw plagiarized (stole) Leonard's class in 1953.....and deceptively, taught it as his own.
  5. The 1942 myth of twi's beginning was to preempt the questioning of wierwille as "founder."
  6. The Way Inc. was a SPLINTER GROUP.......from Leonard's research and work.
  7. In twi-lore, the India itinerary was heralded as "the great Christian Minister Dr. Wierwille visits India."
  8. Yet, Dr. I. S. Williams was president of the All-India Federation of Churches  and pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Chruch in Byculla, Bombay and devotee of Indian history  ..... was host to the wierwilles and opened the doors for vpw to speak.  Respect was given to Dr. Williams.......not the American pastor.
  9. Wierwille resigned (fired?) from the Van Wert Church in August 1957.......and the church board unanimously accepted his resignation.
  10. Twi began its first independent undertaking on Thursday December 19, 1957  [p. 219.....last paragraph].
  11. Money, money, money.......wierwille calculated the he needed 6 more families to tithe faithfully to pay his expenses [p. 228].
  12. From 1957-1967......people did not stick when wierwille taught those LIVE classes.  WHY?

After 45 years of twi..............why can't questions be asked?

Why are people black-listed for ASKING QUESTIONS?

What are they hiding?  Why is wierwille given a free pass and sanitized at every turn.  Could it be that it was stolen valor from other great ministers who did the work and walked the talk?  Yet, wierwille came riding in on the coattails of others and heavy-handedly purged those who questioned him and soft-talked the masses at big events.

Mrs. Wierwille's book......even though heavily-sanitized......exposes the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille to any who research the details.

 

 

.

2 hours ago, skyrider said:

And.........So It Begins.

This R&R splinter group is sanitizing (censoring) the comments of others.  And, those 896 members (cough, cough) are still in the nest.......because they haven't learned how to fly.  But the time is nigh.....when many will stretch their wings, jump from the nest and fly away.

Maybe, in all their research ability.........they will research Mrs. Wierwille's book and find:

  1. Mrs. Wierwille sanitized the life and history of twi's founder, victor paul wierwille.
  2. The wierwille bloodline and history took great liberties (tweaking details to fit vpw's narrative).
  3. Wierwille coat of arms was three sea gulls......not three doves.  See how easy it is to tweak history!?
  4. Clearly, vpw plagiarized (stole) Leonard's class in 1953.....and deceptively, taught it as his own.
  5. The 1942 myth of twi's beginning was to preempt the questioning of wierwille as "founder."
  6. The Way Inc. was a SPLINTER GROUP.......from Leonard's research and work.
  7. In twi-lore, the India itinerary was heralded as "the great Christian Minister Dr. Wierwille visits India."
  8. Yet, Dr. I. S. Williams was president of the All-India Federation of Churches  and pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Chruch in Byculla, Bombay and devotee of Indian history  ..... was host to the wierwilles and opened the doors for vpw to speak.  Respect was given to Dr. Williams.......not the American pastor.
  9. Wierwille resigned (fired?) from the Van Wert Church in August 1957.......and the church board unanimously accepted his resignation.
  10. Twi began its first independent undertaking on Thursday December 19, 1957  [p. 219.....last paragraph].
  11. Money, money, money.......wierwille calculated the he needed 6 more families to tithe faithfully to pay his expenses [p. 228].
  12. From 1957-1967......people did not stick when wierwille taught those LIVE classes.  WHY?

After 45 years of twi..............why can't questions be asked?

Why are people black-listed for ASKING QUESTIONS?

What are they hiding?  Why is wierwille given a free pass and sanitized at every turn.  Could it be that it was stolen valor from other great ministers who did the work and walked the talk?  Yet, wierwille came riding in on the coattails of others and heavy-handedly purged those who questioned him and soft-talked the masses at big events.

Mrs. Wierwille's book......even though heavily-sanitized......exposes the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille to any who research the details.

 

 

.

So I went in to have coffee and breakfast and then thoughts started popping up.  When all the news of VPs scandals started breaking out, even though I was long out naturally those thoughts of thinking how long suffering Mrs. Wierwille must have been came to mind. Especially when years ago, a certain older woman who took the class in Florida in the 1950s made a remark to me that 'VP was a real sleaze ball but boy, he could teach the Bible' kind of took me by surprise.  She's deceased now, but she has family that's still alive, so I'm not going to mention her name. Of course now I get what she meant about VP.  But I was wrong about Mrs. Wierwille. Skyrider's comments make perfect sense that good old Dotsy was not a victim but was in on the sanitizing.  While I was making my breakfast I was thinking of the film "The Master" which is supposed to be a take on the life of L. Ron Hubbard. In the film, Amy Adams plays the role of Peggy Dodd, wife of Lancaster Dodd, leader of The Cause, tolerating and supporting her husband repeatedly through many foolish indiscretions. The Cause always takes precedence. We've seen it over and over again with TV preachers, politicians, et al, so of course it makes sense. Why would a nurse from a farm village be any different, given the chance to trade a white cap for the Chanel earrings I saw her sporting at a Sunday night service? It all makes perfect sense.

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52 minutes ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

So I went in to have coffee and breakfast and then thoughts started popping up.  When all the news of VPs scandals started breaking out, even though I was long out naturally those thoughts of thinking how long suffering Mrs. Wierwille must have been came to mind. Especially when years ago, a certain older woman who took the class in Florida in the 1950s made a remark to me that 'VP was a real sleaze ball but boy, he could teach the Bible' kind of took me by surprise.  She's deceased now, but she has family that's still alive, so I'm not going to mention her name. Of course now I get what she meant about VP.  But I was wrong about Mrs. Wierwille. Skyrider's comments make perfect sense that good old Dotsy was not a victim but was in on the sanitizing.  While I was making my breakfast I was thinking of the film "The Master" which is supposed to be a take on the life of L. Ron Hubbard. In the film, Amy Adams plays the role of Peggy Dodd, wife of Lancaster Dodd, leader of The Cause, tolerating and supporting her husband repeatedly through many foolish indiscretions. The Cause always takes precedence. We've seen it over and over again with TV preachers, politicians, et al, so of course it makes sense. Why would a nurse from a farm village be any different, given the chance to trade a white cap for the Chanel earrings I saw her sporting at a Sunday night service? It all makes perfect sense.

Kathy.......here are a couple more tidbits to ponder [bold-face added]:

  • Victor and Dotsie married on July 2, 1937......secretly eloping to Kentucky.  On page 28, Dotsie explains:  "We felt that there were two reasons to keep our marriage a secret.  For one reason, Vic could continue playing college basketball, since that privilege might be taken away from him if it were know he was married.  Another reason was a rule that pre-seminary students were not permitted to get married before completing their seminary training.  But by December of his senior year, Vic was securely positioned on the basketball team and felt safe that he would be allowed to complete the season."

Skirt the rules, ignore the rules, damn the rules........modus operandi of slick vic.

Hey, I wonder what would have happened if I secretly got married on my interim corps year........and then, in my final year of in-residence made it known that I had LIED and BUCKED THE F-ing RULES and did my own thing?

And, yeah.......Dotsie stayed silent all those years about "twi's founding in 1942."  What a farce!!!  They were struggling along in that small church in Payne, Ohio in 1942.....and there was no way that vpw had visions of a class-based ministry (twi) just because six kids were singing in a Youth Choir.   Sheesh.  What a fabricated LIE that victor ginned up and Dotsie went along for the ride.  EVERTHING CHANGED......when vic sat in Leonard's class in 1953:

  • Vic saw that with a class-based ministry (from Leonard)....he could operate outside the framework of denominational church boards.
  • Run classes.......strongly mandate the faithful tithe;
  • Foundational.....Intermediate......Advanced Classes.
  • Advanced Studies Classes..........Renewed Mind, Defeating the Adversary, The Way Tree, CFS, etc.
  • Class Photo after each class (just like Leonard always did).
  • In-house publications, sanitized way magazine......control the messaging ALWAYS.

Dotsie, Ermal, Dorothy, Harry, Howard, Emogene, etc........enablers.  All got their little fiefdoms.  Dotsie was the "First Lady of The Way."  Ermal, in the early years, supervised construction efforts.  Harry added investment and business acumen.  Howard drove the bus and guarded vic's drunken exploits and sexual predation.  Emogene sat in her office watching afternoon soaps.....yet, commanded the title of Queen of The Way Bookstore with tentacles reaching into shipping, receiving, warehousing, limb bookstore training and rock of ages bookstore recruitment.  The enablers were given power over these fiefdoms for their loyalty to wierwille.

 

 

.

Edited by skyrider
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11 minutes ago, skyrider said:

Hey, I wonder what would have happened if I secretly got married on my interim corps year........and then, in my final year of in-residence made it known that I had LIED and BUCKED THE F-ing RULES and did my own thing?

Ditto for FellowLaborers. There was a clause in the agreement that specifically stated that marital status could not change while in the program.

 

 

"Rules for thee,  but not for me"....VPW

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Well Emogene was always such a biatch. One day in 1995 I saw her standing at the butcher style meat counter in the Big Bear supermarket in St. Marys with her hand on her hip, letting out a big sigh like she was so annoyed that she actually had to wait 2 minutes for someone to come to the meat case and wait on her fat arse. (I can get away with saying that because I have a fat arse too.) What a shame she should get a taste of what life is like for the rest of us.  I used to take care of Cindy's kids first in Georgia, and then in Ohio because we moved from Georgia to Auglaize County due to a job change for my husband at the same time that Michael's assignment changed from limb coordinator to trunk coordinator in 1993.  All the time I took care of those kids Emogene never even acknowledged me or gave me the time of day.  Those kids were never allowed to have chocolate for Easter until 1994 when permission was given and I got them chocolate bunnies and stuff.     I will tell you that several years ago I was able to locate the residential mailing address for the Forts from the internet. I wrote a little note to Cindy and thanked her for always being cordial to me and commented that my life had changed tremendously including divorcing and having lived in Africa.  Of course she didn't write back.  It was kind of an experiment. As far as I'm concerned she's just like her mother and Mrs. Wierwille. The packaging might be more pleasant on the exterior  but she's gone along with it all these years.  Plus if you know the story of the guy she was engaged to before Michael well that says it all.  He did time for Medicare fraud, got out of prison, and then was back to doing white collar crime again. Some girls just like to run with the bad boys.

3 hours ago, skyrider said:

And.........So It Begins.

This R&R splinter group is sanitizing (censoring) the comments of others.  And, those 896 members (cough, cough) are still in the nest.......because they haven't learned how to fly.  But the time is nigh.....when many will stretch their wings, jump from the nest and fly away.

Maybe, in all their research ability.........they will research Mrs. Wierwille's book and find:

  1. Mrs. Wierwille sanitized the life and history of twi's founder, victor paul wierwille.
  2. The wierwille bloodline and history took great liberties (tweaking details to fit vpw's narrative).
  3. Wierwille coat of arms was three sea gulls......not three doves.  See how easy it is to tweak history!?
  4. Clearly, vpw plagiarized (stole) Leonard's class in 1953.....and deceptively, taught it as his own.
  5. The 1942 myth of twi's beginning was to preempt the questioning of wierwille as "founder."
  6. The Way Inc. was a SPLINTER GROUP.......from Leonard's research and work.
  7. In twi-lore, the India itinerary was heralded as "the great Christian Minister Dr. Wierwille visits India."
  8. Yet, Dr. I. S. Williams was president of the All-India Federation of Churches  and pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Chruch in Byculla, Bombay and devotee of Indian history  ..... was host to the wierwilles and opened the doors for vpw to speak.  Respect was given to Dr. Williams.......not the American pastor.
  9. Wierwille resigned (fired?) from the Van Wert Church in August 1957.......and the church board unanimously accepted his resignation.
  10. Twi began its first independent undertaking on Thursday December 19, 1957  [p. 219.....last paragraph].
  11. Money, money, money.......wierwille calculated the he needed 6 more families to tithe faithfully to pay his expenses [p. 228].
  12. From 1957-1967......people did not stick when wierwille taught those LIVE classes.  WHY?

After 45 years of twi..............why can't questions be asked?

Why are people black-listed for ASKING QUESTIONS?

What are they hiding?  Why is wierwille given a free pass and sanitized at every turn.  Could it be that it was stolen valor from other great ministers who did the work and walked the talk?  Yet, wierwille came riding in on the coattails of others and heavy-handedly purged those who questioned him and soft-talked the masses at big events.

Mrs. Wierwille's book......even though heavily-sanitized......exposes the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille to any who research the details.

 

 

.

3 hours ago, skyrider said:

And.........So It Begins.

This R&R splinter group is sanitizing (censoring) the comments of others.  And, those 896 members (cough, cough) are still in the nest.......because they haven't learned how to fly.  But the time is nigh.....when many will stretch their wings, jump from the nest and fly away.

Maybe, in all their research ability.........they will research Mrs. Wierwille's book and find:

  1. Mrs. Wierwille sanitized the life and history of twi's founder, victor paul wierwille.
  2. The wierwille bloodline and history took great liberties (tweaking details to fit vpw's narrative).
  3. Wierwille coat of arms was three sea gulls......not three doves.  See how easy it is to tweak history!?
  4. Clearly, vpw plagiarized (stole) Leonard's class in 1953.....and deceptively, taught it as his own.
  5. The 1942 myth of twi's beginning was to preempt the questioning of wierwille as "founder."
  6. The Way Inc. was a SPLINTER GROUP.......from Leonard's research and work.
  7. In twi-lore, the India itinerary was heralded as "the great Christian Minister Dr. Wierwille visits India."
  8. Yet, Dr. I. S. Williams was president of the All-India Federation of Churches  and pastor of the St. Paul's Hindustani Chruch in Byculla, Bombay and devotee of Indian history  ..... was host to the wierwilles and opened the doors for vpw to speak.  Respect was given to Dr. Williams.......not the American pastor.
  9. Wierwille resigned (fired?) from the Van Wert Church in August 1957.......and the church board unanimously accepted his resignation.
  10. Twi began its first independent undertaking on Thursday December 19, 1957  [p. 219.....last paragraph].
  11. Money, money, money.......wierwille calculated the he needed 6 more families to tithe faithfully to pay his expenses [p. 228].
  12. From 1957-1967......people did not stick when wierwille taught those LIVE classes.  WHY?

After 45 years of twi..............why can't questions be asked?

Why are people black-listed for ASKING QUESTIONS?

What are they hiding?  Why is wierwille given a free pass and sanitized at every turn.  Could it be that it was stolen valor from other great ministers who did the work and walked the talk?  Yet, wierwille came riding in on the coattails of others and heavy-handedly purged those who questioned him and soft-talked the masses at big events.

Mrs. Wierwille's book......even though heavily-sanitized......exposes the myths and mystique of victor paul wierwille to any who research the details.

 

 

.

So I went in to have coffee and breakfast and then thoughts started popping up.  When all the news of VPs scandals started breaking out, even though I was long out naturally those thoughts of thinking how long suffering Mrs. Wierwille must have been came to mind. Especially when years ago, a certain older woman who took the class in Florida in the 1950s made a remark to me that 'VP was a real sleaze ball but boy, he could teach the Bible' kind of took me by surprise.  She's deceased now, but she has family that's still alive, so I'm not going to mention her name. Of course now I get what she meant about VP.  But I was wrong about Mrs. Wierwille. Skyrider's comments make perfect sense that good old Dotsy was not a victim but was in on the sanitizing.  While I was making my breakfast I was thinking of the film "The Master" which is supposed to be a take on the life of L. Ron Hubbard. In the film, Amy Adams plays the role of Peggy Dodd, wife of Lancaster Dodd, leader of The Cause, tolerating and supporting her husband repeatedly through many foolish indiscretions. The Cause always takes precedence. We've seen it over and over again with TV preachers, politicians, et al, so of course it makes sense. Why would a nurse from a farm village be any different, given the chance to trade a white cap for the Chanel earrings I saw her sporting at a Sunday night service? It all makes perfect sense.

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15 hours ago, Lifted Up said:

I will make a short version of y reply which was in here. But I know my main sexual assaulter is one of those who ignores hurts and carries on with wonderful sounding words and prayers in the one she is in.

I just found this in my  email spam folder. If you were talking about me I am no longer involved with CFFM and have not been to their fellowship center since 2006 as I stated.  However if you're currently being sexually abused I would definitely encourage you to report it to the police if it's appropriate.

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1 hour ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

I just found this in my  email spam folder. If you were talking about me I am no longer involved with CFFM and have not been to their fellowship center since 2006 as I stated.  However if you're currently being sexually abused I would definitely encourage you to report it to the police if it's appropriate.

spam? That's an interesting one. I had made a modesty lengthy post that vanished. Let's just say for now I forgot to enter the post, though I am awfuly sure I did. No, I became involved in TWI in 1975, entered the 8th corps, and my sexual assault happened in 1979. I just fully recalled it in the fall of 2017, though I began to remember it as a "minor event" around the time Kristen Skedgell published he book and when, for a couple years, I was by far the most prolific poster on her blog, "Thriving Reality"'  A bit later Kristen moved beyond talking about her Way time publicly, but I came across a wonderful non-Way non-cult person who took her place as my best survivor friend,.In the last year and a half I have acquired plenty of recovery resources so I'm not appealing to anyone to take their place. In fact, my recovery resources are intentionally non-Way, because I see little compassion for the hurting among those who promote and/or teach the "love of God" the same "way" as was done in The Way. That includes the "splinter" groups; do any acknowledge Wierwille's misdeeds without passing them off as irrelevant to them?

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In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on.  Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial.

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2 hours ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

Well Emogene was always such a biatch. One day in 1995 I saw her standing at the butcher style meat counter in the Big Bear supermarket in St. Marys with her hand on her hip, letting out a big sigh like she was so annoyed that she actually had to wait 2 minutes for someone to come to the meat case and wait on her fat arse. (I can get away with saying that because I have a fat arse too.) What a shame she should get a taste of what life is like for the rest of us.  I used to take care of Cindy's kids first in Georgia, and then in Ohio because we moved from Georgia to Auglaize County due to a job change for my husband at the same time that Michael's assignment changed from limb coordinator to trunk coordinator in 1993.  All the time I took care of those kids Emogene never even acknowledged me or gave me the time of day.  Those kids were never allowed to have chocolate for Easter until 1994 when permission was given and I got them chocolate bunnies and stuff.     I will tell you that several years ago I was able to locate the residential mailing address for the Forts from the internet. I wrote a little note to Cindy and thanked her for always being cordial to me and commented that my life had changed tremendously including divorcing and having lived in Africa.  Of course she didn't write back.  It was kind of an experiment. As far as I'm concerned she's just like her mother and Mrs. Wierwille. The packaging might be more pleasant on the exterior  but she's gone along with it all these years.  Plus if you know the story of the guy she was engaged to before Michael well that says it all.  He did time for Medicare fraud, got out of prison, and then was back to doing white collar crime again. Some girls just like to run with the bad boys.

 

It sure was interesting (annoying)......how some people felt entitled to lord over others? 

They didn't need to be "at the top" ......to have layers and layers of "servants" at their beckon call.

 

.

Edited by skyrider
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7 hours ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on.  Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial.

Kathy, I think it is the same attitude I have seen in non-Way circles. succumbing to the fear of bringing a bad name to the particular group, but having no fear.....i.e. no sensitivity....of hurting again and again those  already hurt. I know  of a survivor who tirelessly fights abuse in churches she is associated with, yet not discarding her faith. Knowing that ignoring hurts destroys peoples' faith, like mine was so damaged in the Way. She is the same lady who was at the forefront of the Michigan tate/USA Gymnastics abuse fightng; Rachael Denhollander.

 

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7 hours ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on.  Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial.

Oh, Kathy, FYI I made a FB friend request, provided it's your page I found. I am really not anxious as to whether you take it or not, but at least yo can know who I am (if you care about that either LOL.)

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10 hours ago, skyrider said:

.yet, commanded the title of Queen of The Way Bookstore with tentacles reaching

Regarding the Queen of The Way Bookstore-

I am so, so, so, so, so, so, evil------------  

Screenshot (725).png

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10 hours ago, Kathy Niclaus said:

I wrote a little note to Cindy and thanked her for always being cordial to me and commented that my life had changed tremendously including divorcing and having lived in Africa.  Of course she didn't write back.  It was kind of an experiment. As far as I'm concerned she's just like her mother and Mrs. Wierwille. The packaging might be more pleasant on the exterior  but she's gone along with it all these years.

Hey, since I can't edit, I need to quantify something I said earlier about Cindy Fort- as far as being like her mom and Mrs. Wierwille, I mean sitting on the sidelines, seeing her husband do so much shady stuff over and over and over again, screwing over people who didn't deserve it, people who were good to them, loyal to them, generous to them, people I knew firsthand who would have donated a body organ if they needed, and especially one person I specifically told that of all people, Michael could be trusted.  She had to know a lot of that stuff.  At what point do people become numb so that they just go along with it?  As far as the packaging remark, I didn't mean Cindy's appearance. She was a much kinder and easier person to interact with, and recognized qualities in people that transcended the "Way checklist" most utilized. It's just a shame that she was constrained and over time conditioned to conform to do as she was told.

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Hello all, 

This is my first comment after finding these forums a few weeks ago. 

I was born in 1982 into a family that was part of TWI; my parents were part of a twig group in the Houston area. From what I understand,  my family and a big chunk of people in the Houston area broke off and started a splinter group sometime in the mid to late eighties. My mom and stepdad kept most of that info from us, but I remember them warning my sister and I not to answer any questions regarding PFAL materiel if someone came knocking at the door. 

The day I turned 18 I left and never went back to a fellowship. This caused a great stress between my mother, stepfather, and I and I went nearly a decade without talking to them. Between then and now I have put in work to try to build a relationship with them, but it is a very small slice of my life that I can share with them or that they can share with me without treading into religious waters.  Despite that, I felt like I have been on the right track with them showing up for weekly dinners and starting to get to know them a little bit again. 

That is, until my sister died last month. It was a horrible accident and she was far too young in her mid 30's. I took on the bulk of the funeral planning, as hospitality and events is my profession. It was really difficult to plan because it forced me to negotiate with them about how much their religion would be involved in the service. We decided on a non-secular event hall, which was easy because they would have had an issue going anywhere with any other kind of religion involved.

The tough part is that they wanted their reverend to speak for an hour of the 2 hour service. I fought tooth and nail to get it down to 15 minutes, which they agreed to. He spoke for 40 minutes. It was so difficult sitting through his angry sermon, where he was talking about drinking blood, speaking in tounges, and then pitching people taking PFAL classes. WTF. 

I left so angry. For the first time I started examining how TWI and their offshoot really effected me and the people I love in my life. I grew up feeling extremely emotionally and physically isolated from the outside world, and I am just now (in my late thirties) figuring out how to come to terms with that. I am married and have a good job, but that has taken serious work. I have a hard time really opening up and connecting with people although I yearn for it and work for it daily. 

My dad was excommunicated after he and my mother divorced (she cheated on him with their TWI marriage counselor). This probably had to do with my dad being gay :P.  He hid his sexuality from my sister and I because he knew it meant we wouldn't get to see him. He never missed a child support check even though he was broke and despite constant pressure from my mom/stepdad and TWI pressuring him to cut ties. Once he finally came out, my mom and stepdad really freaked out because they are convinced he has devil spirits. For just under two decades they have had a cool relationship with each other, only talking when it had something to do with my sister or I.

During the funeral they were cordial during the planning process, but cool during the funeral. Anyone former TWI or current offshoot would ignore my dad and his partner of 25 years. People who he has known for decades just pretended he wasn't there. 

After I spoke my heart at the funeral speaking about my sister and her life, I started getting the same treatment. It turns out I offended people by talking about her dad and his partner in the eulogy. That made me feel angry and sad. It also made me feel proud for speaking my mind to a group that didn't want to hear from me. 

Anyway, I am sorry for the word soup and I hope that I haven't gone way off topic here. I am just looking for information now. I am researching the people who I know are in their group now. I want to figure out what offshoot they are a part of and where all this PFAL money is going, considering it isn't supported by TWI anymore. My parents hold classes and travel regularly to hold and attend retreats. I am dying to know how big the splinter is that they are a part of. I want to learn more and face this. 

Does anyone know of any major offshoots that have a strong presence in the Houston area? Am I allowed to list names in this group to see if any of you know any of these people?

Thank you all. It has been fascinating learning about your experiences. 

Edited by p l e r o o
*\Reverend, not Pastor
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,Hello and welcome, pleroo.

First, allow me to offer condolences on the loss of your sister. Kudos for the way you handled the funeral arrangements. As for who has a presence in the Houston area, I'm not knowledgeable of that area at all.  I'm fairly certain there are people here who are, though. I can't tell you where the money goes. If they operate anything like TWI did, you can be sure it doesn't go to feed the hungry or clothe the poor.

 

The general rule on names is that it's best, for legal reasons, to semi-redact peoples names in a way that people here will understand who it is but it won't bring up results with an internet search. For example: John Smith becomes something like J*%n  Sm!tH. Upper echelon people like VP Wierwille and the like are pretty much fair game, though. Of course, if your reason for stating a name is innocuous, such as looking for an old friend, then that doesn't apply.

 

Someone will probably be around shortly to get you a complimentary cup of coffee and a piece of pie.

Edited by waysider
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4 hours ago, p l e r o o said:

Hello all, 

This is my first comment after finding these forums a few weeks ago. 

I was born in 1982 into a family that was part of TWI; my parents were part of a twig group in the Houston area. From what I understand,  my family and a big chunk of people in the Houston area broke off and started a splinter group sometime in the mid to late eighties. My mom and stepdad kept most of that info from us, but I remember them warning my sister and I not to answer any questions regarding PFAL materiel if someone came knocking at the door. 

The day I turned 18 I left and never went back to a fellowship. This caused a great stress between my mother, stepfather, and I and I went nearly a decade without talking to them. Between then and now I have put in work to try to build a relationship with them, but it is a very small slice of my life that I can share with them or that they can share with me without treading into religious waters.  Despite that, I felt like I have been on the right track with them showing up for weekly dinners and starting to get to know them a little bit again. 

That is, until my sister died last month. It was a horrible accident and she was far too young in her mid 30's. I took on the bulk of the funeral planning, as hospitality and events is my profession. It was really difficult to plan because it forced me to negotiate with them about how much their religion would be involved in the service. We decided on a non-secular event hall, which was easy because they would have had an issue going anywhere with any other kind of religion involved.

The tough part is that they wanted their reverend to speak for an hour of the 2 hour service. I fought tooth and nail to get it down to 15 minutes, which they agreed to. He spoke for 40 minutes. It was so difficult sitting through his angry sermon, where he was talking about drinking blood, speaking in tounges, and then pitching people taking PFAL classes. WTF. 

I left so angry. For the first time I started examining how TWI and their offshoot really effected me and the people I love in my life. I grew up feeling extremely emotionally and physically isolated from the outside world, and I am just now (in my late thirties) figuring out how to come to terms with that. I am married and have a good job, but that has taken serious work. I have a hard time really opening up and connecting with people although I yearn for it and work for it daily. 

My dad was excommunicated after he and my mother divorced (she cheated on him with their TWI marriage counselor). This probably had to do with my dad being gay :P.  He hid his sexuality from my sister and I because he knew it meant we wouldn't get to see him. He never missed a child support check even though he was broke and despite constant pressure from my mom/stepdad and TWI pressuring him to cut ties. Once he finally came out, my mom and stepdad really freaked out because they are convinced he has devil spirits. For just under two decades they have had a cool relationship with each other, only talking when it had something to do with my sister or I.

During the funeral they were cordial during the planning process, but cool during the funeral. Anyone former TWI or current offshoot would ignore my dad and his partner of 25 years. People who he has known for decades just pretended he wasn't there. 

After I spoke my heart at the funeral speaking about my sister and her life, I started getting the same treatment. It turns out I offended people by talking about her dad and his partner in the eulogy. That made me feel angry and sad. It also made me feel proud for speaking my mind to a group that didn't want to hear from me. 

Anyway, I am sorry for the word soup and I hope that I haven't gone way off topic here. I am just looking for information now. I am researching the people who I know are in their group now. I want to figure out what offshoot they are a part of and where all this PFAL money is going, considering it isn't supported by TWI anymore. My parents hold classes and travel regularly to hold and attend retreats. I am dying to know how big the splinter is that they are a part of. I want to learn more and face this. 

Does anyone know of any major offshoots that have a strong presence in the Houston area? Am I allowed to list names in this group to see if any of you know any of these people?

Thank you all. It has been fascinating learning about your experiences. 

There is possibility that if you let us know who spoke at your sister's funeral, people here might have some idea about the background for his group.

Like Waysider, I offer my condolences on the loss of your sister. I lost my brother to heart disease when he was 36, so I have some idea how traumatic this has been for you and your family.

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Thank you for the warm welcome and for the condolences. It has been helpful for me to talk about this with people and I appreciate having the space to do so here. 

De@n ell3nw00d is the reverend that spoke at my sister's funeral. Searching online shows that he is a musician with a couple children's albums and was in a clip of an old sesame street knock-off called Straight Street (linked below). 

Another person that has been in our life for a long time is H0uk H!tchc0ck. 

I also recognize a few names linked from this list: http://www.believerlinks.com . I wonder if this site is linked to their splinter group or if they just happen to be linked there. 

Does any of this ring any bells for anyone??

 

 

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2019 at 9:49 PM, Kathy Niclaus said:

In 2006 at my one-off visit to CFFM no mention was made of sexual abuse so I can only assume that the splinter groups are taking the convenient route that you describe avoiding the topic and telling people to move on.  Certainly any group that espouses the teachings of the VPW is going to be in denial.

Many of you will be aware of the history that got LCM ejected from TWI, and you may know the names of some of his victims who started lawsuits.

I met with J@nu@ry B@rn3s.  She told me how LCM had been with her.  She told me the whole sordid details of what he did, where; how her marriage broke down and - oh, just so much.  I had no idea (how could I have done?) - I was "gobsmacked" with what she said, still am really, filled with revulsion; and it's over ten years since we talked.  What she did tell me, though, was that she attended CFFM fellowships and the leaders at CFFM knew some of what had happened (to whom, how, when) and that they spent a lot of time with victims, walking in the grounds, or in other places at CFFM, quietly talking over the abuse (including sexual) of the survivors.  Walking, talking, soothing, praying, listening.  CFFM certainly wasn't in denial at that time and didn't avoid the topic or tell people to move on.

It's not necessary to shout about it from the rooftops at every meeting, so if it wasn't mentioned on one occasion that's no surprise.

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