I have fought the dragon of depression my whole life. I have been on Elavil since 1985. It is a tri-cyclic anti depressant and it works for me. Depression is a foe that can be battled and winning is hard but well earned when the right combination of medications is used.
I was in twi back in the olden days of the '70's. My oldest son was a year old and I asked my twig leader if this was a denomination that didn't believe in the use of modern medicine.
She said that vaccinations for little ones was something God brought about for the blessing of his saints, and the natural man got the blessing by grace. She said if there is a medication that can keep the kid from getting whooping cough or measles, that was one less thing a parent had to believe for.
The right medication can be the difference between existing and living!
After all, I believe God brought those meds into this world to bless his saints-and that means you!
dear seth, what do you mean you may sign off indefinitely? you don't mean you want to kill yourself do you? oh god i hope not.
i have suffered from deep dark depression, severe anxiety and agoraphobia. and i'm doing okay. i just want you to know firsthand that there is hope. i swear.
i don't know what you mean about pints of blood and agencies.
do you have any family members or friends who can help you after the 23rd?
listen your life is not over. it's just the pits right now. stay here and talk. and maybe we can figure out ways to help. you can email me if you want. don't give up.
i am praying for you. i'm sad this is happening to you but i'm so glad you are finally getting help. i think (could be wrong) you have mentioned dealing with alcohol abuse. often that is used to self medicate in trying to deal with the underlying depression. it's so good that you are dealing with it now.
i remember thinking geez, why didn't i get help sooner? ya know once i started to be better.
love and hugs and prayers for you
ps you have never offended me, i love your sense of humor, your honesty, your straight talk and so much about you. and i was so happy when you started posting again
For my two cents, this is one dis-ease that radically demonstrates how the body is one but many members. The diet, exercise, soul life, sleep, breathing, etc. all play an integral role. If there is lack in any of these areas, it will definitely manifest itself.
You gotta ask yourself: when the Creator made formed and created Adam (man) was depression (long-term) in the design of things? If your answer is no, then we need to look at ALL of you- body, soul and spirit. Yes, I am aware that physicians are trained and utilized chemicals to alter the chemicals in your brain. And I am not suggesting anyone just stop their 'scripts'. However, with the right help, the "why sit we here til we die" feeling can be changed. This help has just GOT to come from the diet. Plus empowering the patient is the biggest key I see to long term change. I spoke with someone last night who realized that the Creator provided us with a body whose sole purpose is to heal and sustain vitality. She really did not know that. She felt trapped in her own skin-powerless.
So before anyone misunderstands the masterherbalist, there is no magic herb, no magic pill here. No easy, quick answer. It takes time and sometimes a lot of work. Sometimes depression occurs over time, sometimes it is 'inherited' as the sins of the fathers (like the Hemmingways) and takes a lot of work to get it out of the succeeding generations.
Telling you 'chin up' etc., is worthless. I am telling you that just like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, getting home may be just as close as clicking the heels of the ruby slippers that you have always had. Get involved with a nutritionist or a schooled natural therapist or herbalist that will work with the whole person. And of course, it goes without saying, I pray for you upon every rememberance of you. God speed.
Depression hit me last March like a demolition ball. I'd rather not repeat the sordid details of my journey downward on GS again, but wouldn't mind telling you about it personally.
It takes a bit of time, but you can be yourself again. Don't give up.
Hope R. color>size>face>
Excath - I can relate to "why didn't I get help sooner?" The only reason I can figure is that TWI taught me to figure out everything I could by my "5-senses" first, which is what I tried to do. From now on, I will listen to my own instinct instead of some one-liner I heard 20 years ago. I think about all the sadness I could have avoided....
I've been there too, even to the point of a couple suicide attempts. I was desperate, foolish. As one wonderful poster here said " suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". So true.
Keep showing up for life everyday, giving God a chance to come through (your answer may already be "in the mail"-- mine was).
You are so right to get help. The spirit is willing but this old man flesh is weak, and it does affect our minds. Keep getting help.
Keep showing up here. You need support, and this is a wonderful support group.
Seth: You'd be surprised what modern anti-depressants can do. They aren't a cure-all, but they do help break the chemical cycle of depression leading to more depression. Usually, that's enough to help someone work back out from under the pile of stress. If not, psychotherapy isn't just for serial killers anymore, either.
Remember, as Robert Heinlein once wrote: "As long as the flesh is warm, and the bowels move regularly, all other problems are minor and temporary..."
Hugs to you (((Seth))) at this dark time you're going through.
I hit a low that I never could have imagined was achievable shortly after the birth of my baby. Although much of it was hormone-related, it was added to by a lack of sleep, nervous about suddenly being a parent to a premie, a new home owner and all sorts of other fun things.
I just wanted to lie in bed, with the shades drawn. I did what I had to do to take care of baby, but really didn't give a rat's a$$ about anyone or anything else.
To make a long story short, all the doctors I spoke with, meds I tried, etc., the best thing I found that helped was a book called The Depression Workbook.
It's more than reading. It's answering questions, looking at things in life that you wouldn't have considered for help, and suggestions for better living.
No, it won't be the answer to your problems but it will help you get more understanding of what you're going through and why you feel the way do.
BTW -- about your posts... You're one of my favorite posters to read and hubby and I often get a chuckle out of your irreverant attitude -- love it!
dear seth, i just read your profile and see that you are only 33.5 years old, you young sweet thing you! i was older than you when things started to get better in my life.
also i love your purpose: to spread love and peace
i'm just writing this post to say i care and to tell you that i still laugh and laugh about when you said you were forced to like people in the way who scared the crap out of you, too funny
hugs
hey you can't be that messed up, you're from new jersey for godsake
Seth: Have you considered a Chapter 7 bankruptcy? It might buy you another 3 months, depending on the laws in your state. See if there isn't a Legal Aid clinic around where you are.
Saying that 'keep your chin up' is worthless shows you aren't quite as enlightened as you might think you are.
It has been shown in double blind research that those who are battling ANY ILLNESS...from an ingfected hangnail to childbirth, to cancer, to depression, that attempting to maintain a POSITIVE ATTITUDE can make a giant difference in the recovery. Sometimes it is difficult in the extreme to do this, but IT CAN BE DONE! I KNOW--I HAVE DONE IT.
Treating the whole person is vital, we agree on that. I have an autoimmune disorder that affects my mood...I fight sometimes all day to stay positive.
I don't presume to know all about depression in anyone else but ME.
I would never presume to say any kind of advice is worthless. I would encourage anyone to research in detail any treatment of any illness so that you can see what the profit might be for using that specific treatment.
Perhaps someone needs to see, 'keep your chin up' which could help them get through a day.
Who are you to say any kind of treatment is worthless? While you might not see that it could help, you don't know everything, (and for the record), neither do I.
Seth, you have to be actively involved with treating your depression. My email is gert68@hotmail.com and I am usually home all day and all night. If you think it might help for some 1:1 with me, (God knows I love to talk!) I am available!
Boy, did I get some help here. I, too, am being treated for depression and have been off and on since 1986 after my first wife left me and took my children. It can be treated with drugs but I definitely see masterherbalist's comments about "the whole body being one." While bad chemical balance can be a cause, bad thoughts, can, too, cause depression. Continued negative thoughts will affect body chemistry just as surely as any medication. If you continue the bad thoughts, the medication may temporarily fix the problem but ONLY temporarily. I still have lots to overcome in my thinking so I still need the help of the medication.
Things are not as bad as that, are they? I have battled with depression too and when the spell is over, you can think more clearly. Please do not do anything to yourself. Believe me when I say that every problem has a solution. There are other agencies that can help and if you are homeless for a short spell, that is okay, things will and do get better. I have been through some really hard times so I know whereof I speak. So don't give up. Please! Life does get better.
I am praying for you, too. My family is on the other side of a long bout w/my daughter, who was finally dx'd as bipolar. What I've learned, amongst other things, is that it takes a good 10 wks. for a med to reach it's full efficacy. Sometimes you have to adjust the dosage, or change meds entirely if the one isn't helping. But meds can't do it alone; a good therapist is vital. My daughter saw 3 before "clicking" with one, but when she did we saw results. Online counseling is also available thru New Life; it's not terribly expensive & may be more convenient for you.
Most of all, though; stay connected to people! This site is great for that. A support group would be good. A healthy church (they are out there). Just don't isolate.
Seth I don't know how to urge you to consider masterherbalist's words.
The meds will work, attention to diet, exercise and other things spoken here will help too.
I think Ginger Tea's words are priceless.
Of course I'm praying too.
I hope I speak for the majority when I say that we will fight with you. If you do lose your apartment, there are other ways you may be able to connect.
My email is in my profile if you like. I don't know a whole lot, but I have pretty big ears!
Thanks folks, I'm too tired and skattered to really think I might make sence in this post, so I'm just going to let it fly, typos and all.
I'm not sure I believe the recent events are new in my life, because I've done some meditaion on it and it's been a cycle. This cycle first appeared in my memory when I was in grade school. I believe I have a permenent chemical imbalance that causes my depression, and it's progressive and cumulative. Sure diet helps, sure therapy helps, sure medication helps; but one dip one blip, and I'm out of wack. I take my meds every day, but it's to early for them to work.
I have no plans to hurt myself, or anyone else. I'm looking for a peaceful resolution to this internal conflict. I'm very tired, it's not over, I just am not clear, and I can't see the solution.
these good folks here are trying to help you seth. thats so groovy. now, you say you are being evicted. if so , (unless your land lady changes her mind) youd better get ready for it. dont find yourself on the streets of new jersy with all your possessions scattered about on the sidewalk. get busy trying to store them someplace or sell all of them. if eviction is coming you need to do something about your possessions now. if you do become homeless this will be one more thing you wont have to worry about. and by doing this( storing or selling yyour possessions) you will have more mental freedom to see where to you will go next. this whole post is based on the fact that you are being evicted. being homeless for a while may actually help you . being homeless is not necessarily bad either. it can be a whole lotta fun . thinking of you, itching with you , prayin fer e too. itchley
Oh Seth, I know what you mean. The meds will kick in and you will look at things in a different way. Hang in there. It really isn't as bad as it looks to you right now.
Thank you Kay for pointing out that I omitted stating that SOLELY telling a depressed person "keep your chin up" is worthless. That was the intended communication. I would never NOT implement positive thinking in a WHOLE program. I can see how that could have appeared differently.
Also, I would never state that I knew "everything". My efforts to contribute on this forum are the result of 10 years ministry training, leadership of various fellowships, etc. with a particular study of health and healing. Another sixteen years of devoting study to herbs, studying under Bernard Jensen, as well as ministering to people with solar therapy, hydrotherapy, massage therapy, herbs, food and nutrition, prayer and ministering with the Creator's guidance. The masterherbalist is so named because the difference between an "herbalist" and the masterherbalist is one of them knows the Master. He is my sufficiency and strength; my teacher and my Daddy. I ask Him first before I look to my experience or learning for help. Never my intention to cause division or anger here- I only hope to contribute something that may help someone gain the vitality and zoe (life in all its ways)that is theirs. I apparently inadvertently triggered the opposite effect. My apologies for anyone who was so offended.
Wow - what an interesting happenstance -- I was born February 5, 1969!! Too Cool!
If you need anything let me know. I know depression myself - fought it for many years with Prozac, Xanex and therapy. Thankfully - I no longer need meds - but my mother suffers everyday from chemical depression.
It is a beast - but it is one you don't have to face alone.
If you need anything please email me - I mean we are practically related our birthdays are so close!! Waygone256@yahoo.com
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Kay1952
I have fought the dragon of depression my whole life. I have been on Elavil since 1985. It is a tri-cyclic anti depressant and it works for me. Depression is a foe that can be battled and winning is hard but well earned when the right combination of medications is used.
I was in twi back in the olden days of the '70's. My oldest son was a year old and I asked my twig leader if this was a denomination that didn't believe in the use of modern medicine.
She said that vaccinations for little ones was something God brought about for the blessing of his saints, and the natural man got the blessing by grace. She said if there is a medication that can keep the kid from getting whooping cough or measles, that was one less thing a parent had to believe for.
The right medication can be the difference between existing and living!
After all, I believe God brought those meds into this world to bless his saints-and that means you!
Keep your chin up!
Love Kay
Kay1952
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excathedra
dear seth, what do you mean you may sign off indefinitely? you don't mean you want to kill yourself do you? oh god i hope not.
i have suffered from deep dark depression, severe anxiety and agoraphobia. and i'm doing okay. i just want you to know firsthand that there is hope. i swear.
i don't know what you mean about pints of blood and agencies.
do you have any family members or friends who can help you after the 23rd?
listen your life is not over. it's just the pits right now. stay here and talk. and maybe we can figure out ways to help. you can email me if you want. don't give up.
i am praying for you. i'm sad this is happening to you but i'm so glad you are finally getting help. i think (could be wrong) you have mentioned dealing with alcohol abuse. often that is used to self medicate in trying to deal with the underlying depression. it's so good that you are dealing with it now.
i remember thinking geez, why didn't i get help sooner? ya know once i started to be better.
love and hugs and prayers for you
ps you have never offended me, i love your sense of humor, your honesty, your straight talk and so much about you. and i was so happy when you started posting again
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masterherbalist
For my two cents, this is one dis-ease that radically demonstrates how the body is one but many members. The diet, exercise, soul life, sleep, breathing, etc. all play an integral role. If there is lack in any of these areas, it will definitely manifest itself.
You gotta ask yourself: when the Creator made formed and created Adam (man) was depression (long-term) in the design of things? If your answer is no, then we need to look at ALL of you- body, soul and spirit. Yes, I am aware that physicians are trained and utilized chemicals to alter the chemicals in your brain. And I am not suggesting anyone just stop their 'scripts'. However, with the right help, the "why sit we here til we die" feeling can be changed. This help has just GOT to come from the diet. Plus empowering the patient is the biggest key I see to long term change. I spoke with someone last night who realized that the Creator provided us with a body whose sole purpose is to heal and sustain vitality. She really did not know that. She felt trapped in her own skin-powerless.
So before anyone misunderstands the masterherbalist, there is no magic herb, no magic pill here. No easy, quick answer. It takes time and sometimes a lot of work. Sometimes depression occurs over time, sometimes it is 'inherited' as the sins of the fathers (like the Hemmingways) and takes a lot of work to get it out of the succeeding generations.
Telling you 'chin up' etc., is worthless. I am telling you that just like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, getting home may be just as close as clicking the heels of the ruby slippers that you have always had. Get involved with a nutritionist or a schooled natural therapist or herbalist that will work with the whole person. And of course, it goes without saying, I pray for you upon every rememberance of you. God speed.
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excathedra
i hope you weren't referring to kay's "chin up" i certainly don't think that was worthless nor her post nor her "love kay"
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Hope R.
Seth -
Please email me. hoperich@tampabay.rr.com.
Depression hit me last March like a demolition ball. I'd rather not repeat the sordid details of my journey downward on GS again, but wouldn't mind telling you about it personally.
It takes a bit of time, but you can be yourself again. Don't give up.
Hope R. color>size>face>
Excath - I can relate to "why didn't I get help sooner?" The only reason I can figure is that TWI taught me to figure out everything I could by my "5-senses" first, which is what I tried to do. From now on, I will listen to my own instinct instead of some one-liner I heard 20 years ago. I think about all the sadness I could have avoided....
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Doggiepapa
I've been there too, even to the point of a couple suicide attempts. I was desperate, foolish. As one wonderful poster here said " suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem". So true.
Keep showing up for life everyday, giving God a chance to come through (your answer may already be "in the mail"-- mine was).
You are so right to get help. The spirit is willing but this old man flesh is weak, and it does affect our minds. Keep getting help.
Keep showing up here. You need support, and this is a wonderful support group.
We are with you Seth.
Praying, Ron
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Zixar
Seth: You'd be surprised what modern anti-depressants can do. They aren't a cure-all, but they do help break the chemical cycle of depression leading to more depression. Usually, that's enough to help someone work back out from under the pile of stress. If not, psychotherapy isn't just for serial killers anymore, either.
Remember, as Robert Heinlein once wrote: "As long as the flesh is warm, and the bowels move regularly, all other problems are minor and temporary..."
God bless!
Zix
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ChasUFarley
Hugs to you (((Seth))) at this dark time you're going through.
I hit a low that I never could have imagined was achievable shortly after the birth of my baby. Although much of it was hormone-related, it was added to by a lack of sleep, nervous about suddenly being a parent to a premie, a new home owner and all sorts of other fun things.
I just wanted to lie in bed, with the shades drawn. I did what I had to do to take care of baby, but really didn't give a rat's a$$ about anyone or anything else.
To make a long story short, all the doctors I spoke with, meds I tried, etc., the best thing I found that helped was a book called The Depression Workbook.
http://www.idyllarbor.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart...1.HTM?E+scstore
It's more than reading. It's answering questions, looking at things in life that you wouldn't have considered for help, and suggestions for better living.
No, it won't be the answer to your problems but it will help you get more understanding of what you're going through and why you feel the way do.
BTW -- about your posts... You're one of my favorite posters to read and hubby and I often get a chuckle out of your irreverant attitude -- love it!
Take care of you!
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excathedra
dear seth, i just read your profile and see that you are only 33.5 years old, you young sweet thing you! i was older than you when things started to get better in my life.
also i love your purpose: to spread love and peace
i'm just writing this post to say i care and to tell you that i still laugh and laugh about when you said you were forced to like people in the way who scared the crap out of you, too funny
hugs
hey you can't be that messed up, you're from new jersey for godsake
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itchley
look at the depreesion topic posted by seth.itchley
marywonni
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Zixar
Seth: Have you considered a Chapter 7 bankruptcy? It might buy you another 3 months, depending on the laws in your state. See if there isn't a Legal Aid clinic around where you are.
God bless!
Zix
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Kay1952
Saying that 'keep your chin up' is worthless shows you aren't quite as enlightened as you might think you are.
It has been shown in double blind research that those who are battling ANY ILLNESS...from an ingfected hangnail to childbirth, to cancer, to depression, that attempting to maintain a POSITIVE ATTITUDE can make a giant difference in the recovery. Sometimes it is difficult in the extreme to do this, but IT CAN BE DONE! I KNOW--I HAVE DONE IT.
Treating the whole person is vital, we agree on that. I have an autoimmune disorder that affects my mood...I fight sometimes all day to stay positive.
I don't presume to know all about depression in anyone else but ME.
I would never presume to say any kind of advice is worthless. I would encourage anyone to research in detail any treatment of any illness so that you can see what the profit might be for using that specific treatment.
Perhaps someone needs to see, 'keep your chin up' which could help them get through a day.
Who are you to say any kind of treatment is worthless? While you might not see that it could help, you don't know everything, (and for the record), neither do I.
Seth, you have to be actively involved with treating your depression. My email is gert68@hotmail.com and I am usually home all day and all night. If you think it might help for some 1:1 with me, (God knows I love to talk!) I am available!
With lots of love,
Kay
Kay1952
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pausonne
Boy, did I get some help here. I, too, am being treated for depression and have been off and on since 1986 after my first wife left me and took my children. It can be treated with drugs but I definitely see masterherbalist's comments about "the whole body being one." While bad chemical balance can be a cause, bad thoughts, can, too, cause depression. Continued negative thoughts will affect body chemistry just as surely as any medication. If you continue the bad thoughts, the medication may temporarily fix the problem but ONLY temporarily. I still have lots to overcome in my thinking so I still need the help of the medication.
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corrydj
as seen on a previous post...(I'll paraphrase)
"when one is hurting, the whole body is hurting."
We love you man! Come back and post and let us help!
corrydj
ladda~dee ladee~daa
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AdiosMiCorazon
Seth,
Things are not as bad as that, are they? I have battled with depression too and when the spell is over, you can think more clearly. Please do not do anything to yourself. Believe me when I say that every problem has a solution. There are other agencies that can help and if you are homeless for a short spell, that is okay, things will and do get better. I have been through some really hard times so I know whereof I speak. So don't give up. Please! Life does get better.
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Freebird
Hi Seth,
I am praying for you, too. My family is on the other side of a long bout w/my daughter, who was finally dx'd as bipolar. What I've learned, amongst other things, is that it takes a good 10 wks. for a med to reach it's full efficacy. Sometimes you have to adjust the dosage, or change meds entirely if the one isn't helping. But meds can't do it alone; a good therapist is vital. My daughter saw 3 before "clicking" with one, but when she did we saw results. Online counseling is also available thru New Life; it's not terribly expensive & may be more convenient for you.
Most of all, though; stay connected to people! This site is great for that. A support group would be good. A healthy church (they are out there). Just don't isolate.
Looking forward to hearing more from you-
Freebird
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krys
Seth I don't know how to urge you to consider masterherbalist's words.
The meds will work, attention to diet, exercise and other things spoken here will help too.
I think Ginger Tea's words are priceless.
Of course I'm praying too.
I hope I speak for the majority when I say that we will fight with you. If you do lose your apartment, there are other ways you may be able to connect.
My email is in my profile if you like. I don't know a whole lot, but I have pretty big ears!
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Seth
Thanks folks, I'm too tired and skattered to really think I might make sence in this post, so I'm just going to let it fly, typos and all.
I'm not sure I believe the recent events are new in my life, because I've done some meditaion on it and it's been a cycle. This cycle first appeared in my memory when I was in grade school. I believe I have a permenent chemical imbalance that causes my depression, and it's progressive and cumulative. Sure diet helps, sure therapy helps, sure medication helps; but one dip one blip, and I'm out of wack. I take my meds every day, but it's to early for them to work.
I have no plans to hurt myself, or anyone else. I'm looking for a peaceful resolution to this internal conflict. I'm very tired, it's not over, I just am not clear, and I can't see the solution.
I'm tired of being sick.
Seth
"Why you be here four hour? You go NOW!"
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excathedra
dear seth, oh good, i didn't want you to hurt yourself
i know how you must be so tired of being sick all these years. you deserve to feel better.
i'm praying for you and your whole wellbeing and your sweet heart and everything else ahead of you.
xoxoxoxoxox
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itchley
these good folks here are trying to help you seth. thats so groovy. now, you say you are being evicted. if so , (unless your land lady changes her mind) youd better get ready for it. dont find yourself on the streets of new jersy with all your possessions scattered about on the sidewalk. get busy trying to store them someplace or sell all of them. if eviction is coming you need to do something about your possessions now. if you do become homeless this will be one more thing you wont have to worry about. and by doing this( storing or selling yyour possessions) you will have more mental freedom to see where to you will go next. this whole post is based on the fact that you are being evicted. being homeless for a while may actually help you . being homeless is not necessarily bad either. it can be a whole lotta fun . thinking of you, itching with you , prayin fer e too. itchley
marywonni
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AdiosMiCorazon
Oh Seth, I know what you mean. The meds will kick in and you will look at things in a different way. Hang in there. It really isn't as bad as it looks to you right now.
(((((Seth)))))
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masterherbalist
Thank you Kay for pointing out that I omitted stating that SOLELY telling a depressed person "keep your chin up" is worthless. That was the intended communication. I would never NOT implement positive thinking in a WHOLE program. I can see how that could have appeared differently.
Also, I would never state that I knew "everything". My efforts to contribute on this forum are the result of 10 years ministry training, leadership of various fellowships, etc. with a particular study of health and healing. Another sixteen years of devoting study to herbs, studying under Bernard Jensen, as well as ministering to people with solar therapy, hydrotherapy, massage therapy, herbs, food and nutrition, prayer and ministering with the Creator's guidance. The masterherbalist is so named because the difference between an "herbalist" and the masterherbalist is one of them knows the Master. He is my sufficiency and strength; my teacher and my Daddy. I ask Him first before I look to my experience or learning for help. Never my intention to cause division or anger here- I only hope to contribute something that may help someone gain the vitality and zoe (life in all its ways)that is theirs. I apparently inadvertently triggered the opposite effect. My apologies for anyone who was so offended.
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Kay1952
I am not a Master. I am at best an apprentice herbalist.
I know that there are herbs that can do wonders.
Digitalis comes from Foxglove. Willow bark tea contains salycilates which can reduce fever and alleviate pain.
That is not all I know.
CFIDS is being treated in some people with many different herbal blends and substances.
People who are desperate for a cure, will try almost anything, oft with no research to find out about it.
I don't ascribe to the herbal approach for ME.
I just can't wrap my head around it, and so...
no holistic treatment for me.
I thank you for your knowlege.
I was not offended. Just concerned.
That was my point.
Love, Kay
Kay1952
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Waygone
Hey Seth -
Wow - what an interesting happenstance -- I was born February 5, 1969!! Too Cool!
If you need anything let me know. I know depression myself - fought it for many years with Prozac, Xanex and therapy. Thankfully - I no longer need meds - but my mother suffers everyday from chemical depression.
It is a beast - but it is one you don't have to face alone.
If you need anything please email me - I mean we are practically related our birthdays are so close!! Waygone256@yahoo.com
Waygone
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