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Buying a new car? Get ready to pay a surcharge!


oldiesman
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Hi Folks, am in the process of visiting car dealerships and having difficulty because they all want $2000-3000 above MSRP!    Its a real turnoff.     Anyone know any dealers who don't have a surcharge?

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Maybe they're using the difference to buy gold? :biglaugh:   j/k

 

Some manufacturers claim to be cracking down on that . . . We're facing a deglobalization of the economy  . . . Could be a long time before anything makes sense.

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28 minutes ago, oldiesman said:

That may be, but they ain't getting mine !

That's.  . . Actually interesting.

Not getting your gold or your money?

If it's your money, we know about inflation, the silent tax, is our money really ours?  The Fed can just devalue what we have.  (Kinda like the NPD does)

Gold might be better, since we still can have personal property.  Unless of course there's a redistribution.  How would those ideas sneak in?

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19 minutes ago, Bolshevik said:

That's.  . . Actually interesting.

Not getting your gold or your money?

If it's your money, we know about inflation, the silent tax, is our money really ours?  The Fed can just devalue what we have.  (Kinda like the NPD does)

Gold might be better, since we still can have personal property.  Unless of course there's a redistribution.  How would those ideas sneak in?

Well only to keep my answer simple:    they ain't getting a surcharge from me.   I'd rather drive my existing than give them a surcharge.     

If you wanna talk about gold and silver, I'm game.. but that's another thread I suppose...

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3 minutes ago, oldiesman said:

Well only to keep my answer simple:    they ain't getting a surcharge from me.   I'd rather drive my existing than give them a surcharge.     

.. . .

I'm in a similar boat if that helps.

Do I drive the car, which goes down in value in time and eventually dies, to save a few dollars now?

Or will car prices keep going up?  In which case buying now would save more than the surcharge spent?

 

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12 hours ago, Bolshevik said:

I'm in a similar boat if that helps.

Do I drive the car, which goes down in value in time and eventually dies, to save a few dollars now?

Or will car prices keep going up?  In which case buying now would save more than the surcharge spent?

 

Your point is well taken but even so I'm not willing to pay a surcharge.     I have another bone to pick with the dealers:  they usually try to lowball you with the trade in.  But trade-ins are good in the sense that the taxes are reduced (at least in NY) -- the trade in value is subtracted from the MSRP; whereas if you didn't trade in you'd pay taxes on the full MSRP.    So if the dealer is offering $17000 for your trade-in, you would need to sell the vehicle for at least $18400 privately to make up for that in the tax savings.

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Posted (edited)

If you're avoiding their pricing structure because you think you can "beat them at their own game", I may have some bad news for you. They do this day in and day out and know every trick in the book. They are there to make money. Plain and simple. They have months long waiting lists of potential buyers. If you don't buy the car, someone else will be more than happy to jump in and buy it instead. Their new car prices go up every day. Your trade-in value goes down every day. Repair part prices and labor go up every day. How important is it to you to know you won't be saddled with repair costs and inconveniences for the foreseeable future because you'll be covered by warrantees? Contrary to popular belief, car dealers don't make much profit on new cars, so there isn't a lot of wiggle room. They make their money on financing (and used cars). If you just feel a need to haggle, then haggle over financing terms.

 

edit: Offering to pay in cash is your worst option. The dealer knows he'll lose on financing and you, in turn, lose an opportunity to build your credit score. 

Edited by waysider
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On 5/29/2022 at 7:03 AM, oldiesman said:

Your point is well taken but even so I'm not willing to pay a surcharge.     I have another bone to pick with the dealers:  they usually try to lowball you with the trade in.  But trade-ins are good in the sense that the taxes are reduced (at least in NY) -- the trade in value is subtracted from the MSRP; whereas if you didn't trade in you'd pay taxes on the full MSRP.    So if the dealer is offering $17000 for your trade-in, you would need to sell the vehicle for at least $18400 privately to make up for that in the tax savings.

I guess I'm wondering if the argument is with the dealers, or with the financial system we're both under.  So what if the dealer squeezed out an extra grand if that grand is worth not a grand is now very soon.  You want money to go to work, not sit around.  Who ends up showing who?

Trade-ins are unusually high right now, or they have been.  I'm wondering if Asian-made will go way up . . . since the future seams to be Made in *North* America.

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I received an offer with no surcharge and am considering it.   This is from a Kia dealer in New Jersey.    The gas mileage is a little lower than what my Nissan gets right now, but Kia is excellent on warranties and when I test rode this model I really liked it.   Kia Sportage.    I've attached a copy of the window sticker... lemme know what you think.   Haven't received their trade-in offer for the Nissan yet but if its close to what the averages are online, I may go with this offer.   Bolshevik I agree with you on the inflation its better to use your cash right now than wait till cash is further devalued!

 

image_0.jpeg

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1 hour ago, oldiesman said:

I received an offer with no surcharge and am considering it.   This is from a Kia dealer in New Jersey.    The gas mileage is a little lower than what my Nissan gets right now, but Kia is excellent on warranties and when I test rode this model I really liked it.   Kia Sportage.    I've attached a copy of the window sticker... lemme know what you think.   Haven't received their trade-in offer for the Nissan yet but if its close to what the averages are online, I may go with this offer.   Bolshevik I agree with you on the inflation its better to use your cash right now than wait till cash is further devalued!

 

image_0.jpeg

Black inside black cherry sounds sweet.  

Fyi Google Scotty Kilmer, that is a guy who knows things about stuff, I decided.

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You may want to ask the dealer if they've figured out a way to keep them from getting stolen. Around here, it seems like hardly a day goes by that the news doesn't report a high speed chase involving teenagers stealing a Kia or a Hyundai. 

 

Looks like a pretty nice car, though.

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1 hour ago, waysider said:

You may want to ask the dealer if they've figured out a way to keep them from getting stolen. Around here, it seems like hardly a day goes by that the news doesn't report a high speed chase involving teenagers stealing a Kia or a Hyundai. 

 

Looks like a pretty nice car, though.

Well, "Kia" and "Hyundai" together with "high speed chase" caused me some skepticism.  Googling and finding out that they were stolen using USB ports made perfect sense though.

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On 5/29/2022 at 9:06 AM, waysider said:

If you're avoiding their pricing structure because you think you can "beat them at their own game", I may have some bad news for you. They do this day in and day out and know every trick in the book. They are there to make money. Plain and simple. They have months long waiting lists of potential buyers. If you don't buy the car, someone else will be more than happy to jump in and buy it instead. Their new car prices go up every day. Your trade-in value goes down every day. Repair part prices and labor go up every day. How important is it to you to know you won't be saddled with repair costs and inconveniences for the foreseeable future because you'll be covered by warrantees? Contrary to popular belief, car dealers don't make much profit on new cars, so there isn't a lot of wiggle room. They make their money on financing (and used cars). If you just feel a need to haggle, then haggle over financing terms.

 

edit: Offering to pay in cash is your worst option. The dealer knows he'll lose on financing and you, in turn, lose an opportunity to build your credit score. 

Conversations like this were impossible in The Way.  Because debt.  Saying being debt free is nice, but,

Money is debt.  When you boil it down.  There's no way to be debt free.  That's quite the illusion to take a position on, "debt free".

Sorry Oldies if that was off topic.

 

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On 5/31/2022 at 6:41 PM, Bolshevik said:

Black inside black cherry sounds sweet.  

Fyi Google Scotty Kilmer, that is a guy who knows things about stuff, I decided.

Yes I do like Scotty, he seems to know his stuff and is funny.   I subscribe to his YouTube channel.

So yesterday I went to the dealership to check out the Kia.    Turns out that the vehicle has been a dealership loaner and has 4000 miles on it.    But it is treated as new and has all the warranties of new.   I think its still a good deal without the surcharge  -- this dealer charges $3000 surcharge on a new one of this model; and the dealers trade-in offer for my Nissan was decent.     I didn't take it on the spot because it didn't come with remote start which is a must for me during winters in New York.    Plus, they told me that Kia remote starts are only good for about 90 feet distance, whereas I need one that is at least 400 ft which is the distance from where I park my car to my bedroom window.    So now they are calling two other companies they work with to find one with that distance.     

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They found a company that offers a remote start for the vehicle and said it would cost me $420.    I asked them to throw that in with the deal and they refused, so I told them no deal.   Meanwhile, a local Kia Dealer here in Dutchess County only yesterday offered me a brand new 2023 model with all the same features, but the 2023 is updated,  futuristic auto body and remote start, better gas mileage, for less money.    The main reason why its less money is, its front wheel drive.   All wheel drive is better in snow, but costs more and offers less gas mileage overall.

 

20220604_074117.jpg

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Wow, first car shows 23 mpg, second car shows 28 mpg.  

This is mileage claimed (with a quick google search) online Fuel economy: 32-55 mpg combined (29-52 city, 42-69 highway

It's priced for a UK car so it might be for UK gallon (bit larger than a US gallon). 

 

23mpg is appalling.  Dreadful.  Look for something that gives better fuel economy.  Especially with fuel prices rocketing up.  You can be sure they aren't going to go down at the same rate.

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Yes that was one reason why I picked this, the other reason its Front Wheel Drive; which is less expensive than All Wheel Drive plus Front Wheel Drive supposed to get better gas mileage.   Not as good in the snow but still ok.     I've been driving slower lately too, that helps a whole lot.

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