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Raising a Child as an Atheist


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56 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Rocky your apology was for contradicting me which 100% of the audience knows that wasn’t what I called you out on.  And in the same post as your “apology” you called out my mental health in question.  So you and your apology can ride out on the same horse.

Respectfully, on this thread, I don't find anywhere that I apologized to you for anything. I suppose you disagree with that. If so, please point it out, specifically.

Thank you.

I wish you nothing but health and happiness, all your days. (this is NOT related to anything I may have said that you believe contradicts what I said herein).

What causes me to scratch my head is that your words seem to be saying (what you believe) is going on inside my head. Please clarify how you may have come to search out and determine what's going on between my ears. Thank you.

Edited by Rocky
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20 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Respectfully, on this thread, I don't find anywhere that I apologized to you for anything. I suppose you disagree with that. If so, please point it out, specifically.

Thank you.

I wish you nothing but health and happiness, all your days. (this is NOT related to anything I may have said that you believe contradicts what I said herein).

What causes me to scratch my head is that your words seem to be saying (what you believe) is going on inside my head. Please clarify how you may have come to search out and determine what's going on between my ears. Thank you.

Yes the post was not on this thread but another.  So?  I suppose you could search for “apologize” and find it quickly.  It may only appear once or twice in your 14,000 post history.

Thanks for the well wishes.

I don’t know what is going on inside your head.  Just what you post.

Edited by chockfull
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13 minutes ago, Rocky said:

Please remember that. It's actually what I statements are ALL about.

Cool.  Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement?  I didn’t read much “I” in it.  It was mostly about what you were not saying about me.  Plus the gaslighting def #1.  The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement.  The content was not congruent to me.

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2 minutes ago, chockfull said:

Cool.  Can you clarify how your post about definition #1 is really an “I” statement?  I didn’t read much “I” in it.  It was mostly about what you were not saying about me.  Plus the gaslighting def #1.  The only thing I felt was representative of the post you linked to about the “I” statement was you saying it was an “I” statement.  The content was not congruent to me.

It's NOT about YOU. That's all I'm going to explain about it at this time.

Not everything you (might) take personally is actually about you.

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From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)

I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.

I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.

I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.

I thought of him as a fiction.

Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:

  1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
  2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
  3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
  4. Child rape. War. Etc.

And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.

 

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4 minutes ago, Rocky said:

It's NOT about YOU. That's all I'm going to explain about it at this time.

Not everything you (might) take personally is actually about you.

Oh so you CAN’T explain how your statement fulfills the characteristics of an “I” statement?

Interesting…

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Just now, chockfull said:

Oh so you CAN’T explain how your statement fulfills the characteristics of an “I” statement?

Interesting…

I don't wish to continue bickering with you at this time. Are you willing to leave it at that?

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Another excerpt from the WaPo article some of you may find this interesting:

Religion offers ready-made answers to our most difficult questions. It gives people ways to mark time, celebrate and mourn. Once I vowed not to teach my children anything I did not personally believe, I had to come up with new answers. But I discovered as I went what most parents discover: You can figure it out as you go.

Establishing a habit of honesty did not sap the delight from my children’s lives or destroy their moral compass. I suspect it made my family closer than we would have been had my husband and I pretended to our children that we believed in things we did not. We sowed honesty and reaped trust — along with intellectual challenge, emotional sustenance and joy.

Those are all personal rewards. But there are political rewards as well.

My children know how to distinguish fact from fiction — which is harder for children raised religious. They don’t assume conventional wisdom is true and they do expect arguments to be based on evidence. Which means they have the skills to be engaged, informed and savvy citizens.

We need citizens like that.

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2 hours ago, Rocky said:

From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)

I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.

I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.

I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.

I thought of him as a fiction.

Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:

  1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
  2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
  3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
  4. Child rape. War. Etc.

And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.

 

When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send me into a tail spin of condemnation, and as a young guy you can imagine the sinful thoughts I was having minute by minute, hour by hour, etc. I would pray and pray begging God to cleanse my mind. I even sheepishly went to my priest asking him what to do. He didn’t want to talk about sex, but said he would leave some church literature hidden  inside the confessional, for me to study. The promised readings never showed up. This really made be feel giulty that mymoriest forgot about me. 
So after high school graduation I dropped out of the church and never went back. 
Staying away from the church really left a hole in me spiritually for years,  and felt I was  hell bound, until one day a guy sat next to me in a cafe and started witnessing to me. He said if you believe Romans 10:9&10, you will go to heaven come hell or high water. Also God can work miracle through us….all we have to do is believe. I signed up for the PFAL class immediately and hurried through all the other classes so I could operate signs, miracle, and wonders. Even went WOW, WOW Ii, and signed up for the Way Corp. 

But along the way I didn’t see any signs, miracles, and wonders happening. Didn’t even see someone get over a cold by having hands laid on them. This really got started me doubting what TWI was all about and seriously wanting to leave. But by then they had their hooks in me saying if I leave all my rewards will be lost. Blah, blah, blah, you know the rest.

Thr reason I finally got out was gecause they marked and avoided me. 
So stumbling about again with God going to make me a grease spot by midnight, I felt terrible. Finding GSC was a life saver and got me at least on an even keel. 
Then seeing all the trouble my life had been in because of God, I began thinking what good had he done for me. Slowing I began reading articles about people who were happy not believing in God.
I have never been happier and more content since becoming an atheist.

My daughter was born and raised in TWI, and is currently a happy Catholic. But if I were raising her today I would steer her away from any religion or God.

Edited by Stayed Too Long
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18 minutes ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/06/religious-children-less-altruistic-secular-kids-study

The study found religious children, especially older ones, are meaner than their seculure counterparts.
 

 

That's sad, but I don't doubt the veracity of the study.

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I realize this is :offtopic:but I ask Stayed Too Long's indulgence.

More than a decade ago, I faced a hurricane of a storm in my life. My GSC posts at that time reflected the storm I was then immersed in.

I came out of the storm not the same person. I'm thankful for having gone through the storm and survived and grown as a person. :love3:

image.png

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36 minutes ago, Rocky said:

I realize this is :offtopic:but I ask Stayed Too Long's indulgence.

More than a decade ago, I faced a hurricane of a storm in my life. My GSC posts at that time reflected the storm I was then immersed in.

I came out of the storm not the same person. I'm thankful for having gone through the storm and survived and grown as a person. :love3:

image.png

The storm I was facing in life was not seeing all the promises of God in my life and those around me come true. I had no choice but to conclude all the promises I was taught from childhood to adulthood were fraudulent, and had to reject them. If you reject God all that is left is to be an atheist. Becoming an atheist was a very good choice for me.

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On 10/4/2023 at 10:23 PM, Rocky said:

From Washington Post, today October 3, 2023: (all readers are able to read the rest of this WaPo essay for no charge because I subscribe by clicking the link)

I like to say that my kids made me an atheist. But really what they did was make me honest.

I was raised Jewish — with Sabbath prayers and religious school, a bat mitzvah and a Jewish wedding. But I don’t remember ever truly believing that God was out there listening to me sing songs of praise.

I thought of God as a human invention: a character, a concept, a carry-over from an ancient time.

I thought of him as a fiction.

Today I realize that means I’m an atheist. It’s not complicated. My (non)belief derives naturally from a few basic observations:

  1. The Greek myths are obviously stories. The Norse myths are obviously stories. L. Ron Hubbard obviously made that stuff up. Extrapolate.
  2. The holy books underpinning some of the bigger theistic religions are riddled with “facts” now disproved by science and “morality” now disavowed by modern adherents. Extrapolate.
  3. Life is confusing and death is scary. Naturally, humans want to believe that someone capable is in charge and that we continue to live after we die. But wanting doesn’t make it so.
  4. Child rape. War. Etc.

And yet, when I was younger, I would never have called myself an atheist — not on a survey, not to my family, not even to myself.

 

So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper.  It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.

Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.

Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?  

 

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10 hours ago, Stayed Too Long said:

Atheists make better parents because they do not have their children do things out of fear of being punished by a god. Only do things because it is the right thing to do.

https://www.indy100.com/news/atheists-make-better-parents-parenting-study-research-7627036

My struggle with mine was avoiding the bondage that a fundamentalist Christian view brings and avoiding cult negative other impact.

Looking back I’m sure I could have been a better parent.  I keep talking to my kids though so it’s not over yet.

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Children eventually come to the realization that it is impossible for Santa Clause to deliver presents to all the good boys and girls around the world in one night.

Children also realize after a few years, that it is impossible for a rabbit to color and deliver millions of hard boiled eggs to parks and yards around the globe, every Easter morning.

These same children also arrive at the conclusion, that the tooth fairy did not actually replace a rotting tooth, places under their pillow,  with a few dollars.

However, these same children, who have read in a book that a man made the waters of a sea part, continue to believe it, after no concrete evidence exists to prove it.

And, when the sea parted a bunch of nice people marched across it. Once all the good folks reached the other side of the ocean, God made the waters once again to come together, thus killing all the bad guys chasing  them.

Then once all the good people gathered together on the other side of the sea, this same God, made them wonder about the desert for 40 years becuase they ....ed Him off. Of course, He did however, miraculously supply them with food for their entire 40 years of wondering. God also made them invisible to their enemies for the entire 40 years. 

And when this loving God was about to deliver them from the desert after 40 years, He once again was ....ed off because the leader did something God did not like, so the leader had to die before allowing all the good people to enter the promised land. 
 

Also, who can find someone that will change water into the finest wine? Or turn bread into fishes to feed thousands on a hillside? Or pray for a lame person and make him walk? I did a Google search for people cured of aids through prayer, but came up empty. Why has God not acted to free people of aids? People will say He has through medicine, but why did He wait so long and allow thousands to suffer and die from this hideous disease?

The Myth of life is Genesis to Revelations is a Myth. 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, chockfull said:

So after rereading some of all this your post here comes off like this is your personal story that was published in a paper.  It took reading through a couple times to determine that is not the case.

Your personal backstory which people can find on this site is you went through a contentious divorce heavily negatively influenced by the Way and relations to your one child were strained but now are healed over.

Did you have any detail to comment on this topic from your personal story?  

 

Why would I? Why would you care?

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