Because it would be a real response that could have personal insight in the subject matter. The more authentic you are the more you are believable.
Why I would care is that as an introvert I desire real connection and fake or inauthentic connection is irritating to me.
Why would you believe you have a right to demand or expect obedience or compliance or anything else from anyone?
As I understand it, that's not how life works.
Whether or not I am authentic is not something, from my perspective, that's at all dependent on whether I ever meet your expectations.
In case you MIGHT be interested, here's a gentle reminder of something someone important to me shared recently on FB. If you're not interested, by all means, disregard it.
"When someone is at war with themselves, it will be very hard for them to be peaceful with you. Remember that."
If you want "real connection" with me, you've been going about it all wrong.
As far as what I want, from you or anyone else, is to honor emotional boundaries. I can't expect if from you by demanding it of you. I am NOT trying to woo or control or influence or manipulate you for ANY kind of relationship.
As I DID say to you recently, you and I have NO relationship of any kind that would cause me to want to manipulate you for any reason. My wholeness (emotional or otherwise) is in no way dependent on you or anyone else, either here or IRL.
Right. Not in exactly the same way. But Hellenized Jews and pagans would have recognized the implications and connections. Jesus did it better, so the story goes, effectively superseding Dionysus.
From my point of view, as an athiest, all the mythical gods, and Alluh, Elohim, etc….., the names of which are endless, are a myth. They never existed, they do not exist now, and they will not exist in the future.
Once you accept the fact that once you die, and you will go to the grave and decay like any other life on earth, you no longer have to be concerned about gaining or loosing rewards from an angry or loving God. Whew!!! Thank God. Lol.
You are going with your comments. Please start a thread dealing with your concerns.
I have no concerns to need to start a new thread. I was answering a direct question. Or maybe a rhetorical one depending on how it was presented 100%. If that triggers you then maybe you should ask yourself why.
I have no concerns to need to start a new thread. I was answering a direct question. Or maybe a rhetorical one depending on how it was presented 100%. If that triggers you then maybe you should ask yourself why.
To to all posters.
This is the atheist forum and this particular thread is about raising children as atheists. Please do not go
From my point of view, as an athiest, all the mythical gods, and Alluh, Elohim, etc….., the names of which are endless, are a myth. They never existed, they do not exist now, and they will not exist in the future.
Once you accept the fact that once you die, and you will go to the grave and decay like any other life on earth, you no longer have to be concerned about gaining or loosing rewards from an angry or loving God. Whew!!! Thank God. Lol.
Why would you believe you have a right to demand or expect obedience or compliance or anything else from anyone?
As I understand it, that's not how life works.
Whether or not I am authentic is not something, from my perspective, that's at all dependent on whether I ever meet your expectations.
In case you MIGHT be interested, here's a gentle reminder of something someone important to me shared recently on FB. If you're not interested, by all means, disregard it.
"When someone is at war with themselves, it will be very hard for them to be peaceful with you. Remember that."
If you want "real connection" with me, you've been going about it all wrong.
As far as what I want, from you or anyone else, is to honor emotional boundaries. I can't expect if from you by demanding it of you. I am NOT trying to woo or control or influence or manipulate you for ANY kind of relationship.
As I DID say to you recently, you and I have NO relationship of any kind that would cause me to want to manipulate you for any reason. My wholeness (emotional or otherwise) is in no way dependent on you or anyone else, either here or IRL.
Calm down. Nobody is demanding anything. I was answering a question directly. Your post does seem to reflect what you have quoted in bold pretty well. The reason you would manipulate would be within yourself nothing to do with me at all.
It might have to do with the stats showing you have 14,000 plus posts when nobody else has even half that many.
I have noticed and did mention this to you that whenever the frequency of my posting increases so does the frequency of you correcting, contradicting or attacking my posts basically. So maybe your perceived status on this site threatened or I don’t even care enough to need to know why. I just know when the behavior occurs I am not caving in to it any more.
I was speaking in general terms regarding why I would care.
You are going with your comments. Please start a thread dealing with your concerns.
1 hour ago, chockfull said:
Calm down. Nobody is demanding anything. I was answering a question directly. Your post does seem to reflect what you have quoted in bold pretty well. The reason you would manipulate would be within yourself nothing to do with me at all.
It might have to do with the stats showing you have 14,000 plus posts when nobody else has even half that many.
I have noticed and did mention this to you that whenever the frequency of my posting increases so does the frequency of you correcting, contradicting or attacking my posts basically. So maybe your perceived status on this site threatened or I don’t even care enough to need to know why. I just know when the behavior occurs I am not caving in to it any more.
I was speaking in general terms regarding why I would care.
Reiterating STL's gentle request regarding you again seeming to think you (might) know what's going on inside my head.
Quote
...whenever the frequency of my posting increases so does the frequency of you correcting, contradicting or attacking my posts...
In case you would like to actually know, you could start that other thread as STL so gently requested, and ask me for clarification. In which case, I would simply add that it is my understanding that it is NOT contrary to GSC rules to DISAGREE with points you make, positions you take, claims you state. If YOU feel attacked, that's something YOU might do or feel, not something I do to you.
Reiterating STL's gentle request regarding you again seeming to think you (might) know what's going on inside my head.
In case you would like to actually know, you could start that other thread as STL so gently requested, and ask me for clarification. In which case, I would simply add that it is my understanding that it is NOT contrary to GSC rules to DISAGREE with points you make, positions you take, claims you state. If YOU feel attacked, that's something YOU might do or feel, not something I do to you.
Ok if it's not against GSC terms to pick at my posts and you will not agree to any modifications of your approach then I guess GSC is going to read a lot of me telling you what I think of that approach.
This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.
"This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think."
I have to deal with this? News to me, and I'm confident it would be news to a LOT of Christians. There's a common saying- "Christians aren't perfect- just forgiven!" I'm sure there's SOME Christians SOMEWHERE who think like this, but I'm confident the majority do not- certainly the majority of GSC posters haven't thought that way.
On an unrelated note, we all have to "deal with every thought"- or we should. I like to do my own thinking, thank you, whether or not it matches a particular political party, organization, group, etc. Everyone actually IS responsible for their own actions- responsible to their own selves and responsible to society and societies, whether or not there's anyone above that. As for our thoughts, yes, we should take responsibility for our own thoughts, for good or bad. Our actions are based on our thoughts. Sow a bad thought, reap a bad action. Freedoms comes with responsibility- the freedom to think for yourself and act for yourself comes with the responsibility to think and act responsibly.
From birth I would reinforce with my child he or she should make the world a better place.
At work, I once had an acquaintance who was an atheist and I was a Wayfer. Of course, I felt he was a complete counterfeit using the devil to mimic God’s good works. He was doing goodworks but not for the glory of God. Especially, why should I be concerned about helping anyone other than active believers in the household of God?
He explained that everyday he walked about the earth looking to do good. That might include helping a person, working with a group that he felt was important, reading a book, doing a good job at work, or visiting with friends. A person’s religious belief did not enter into his reason for doing anything.
I doubt if he was concerned about acquiring rewards, or losing rewards, by impressing or disappointing a god.
You might find it interesting to consider that the Bible says that Jesus recommended that for UNBELIEVERS. (Not that helping others and doing good isn't recommended for believers, but I hardly think that qualifies as news by now.)
"This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.
On an unrelated note, we all have to "deal with every thought"- or we should. I like to do my own thinking, thank you, whether or not it matches a particular political party, organization, group, etc. Everyone actually IS responsible for their own actions- responsible to their own selves and responsible to society and societies, whether or not there's anyone above that. As for our thoughts, yes, we should take responsibility for our own thoughts, for good or bad. Our actions are based on our thoughts. Sow a bad thought, reap a bad action. Freedoms comes with responsibility- the freedom to think for yourself and act for yourself comes with the responsibility to think and act responsibly.
I agree we should evaluate our thoughts and take responsibility for them, good or bad. That is how we grow mentally and ultimately in our actions.
However, I no longer give a second mention to see if the thought lines up with God, which for me is very freeing. I used to evaluate my thoughts with what God said, and it resulted in considerable condemnation.
You might find it interesting to consider that the Bible says that Jesus recommended that for UNBELIEVERS. (Not that helping others and doing good isn't recommended for believers, but I hardly think that qualifies as news by now.)
I searched google for God recommending doing good for the unbeliever, but found no results. Would you please provide a link? Thank you.
I agree we should evaluate our thoughts and take responsibility for them, good or bad. That is how we grow mentally and ultimately in our actions.
However, I no longer give a second mention to see if the thought lines up with God, which for me is very freeing. I used to evaluate my thoughts with what God said, and it resulted in considerable condemnation.
I noticed earlier in the thread, you mentioned growing up Roman Catholic, and that there was a lot of guilt and condemnation served up with everything else. That's a shame, but hardly universal among Christians, let alone Roman Catholics. I do think Catholicism has lost large numbers to other Christian groups without all the condemnation- from those who actually teach the condemnation. (There's other reasons too, but going to church AND feeling bad is a senseless combination.)
The section I was thinking of at the time was Matthew 25: 31-46.
Let me know if you need me to "enable the help files" on that.
If, as I suggested, that people should go about the world doing good works, they would be placed on God’s right hand, and counted as the sheep. It appears to me, as an atheist, I’ll spend eternity with God…assuming that there is a God.
All my bases are covered….if there is a God I’ll be in His hip pocket. If there is no God, I’ll have made the world a better place, and will be thankful for my works benefiting someone.
I will not your assistance to enable the help files.
If, as I suggested, that people should go about the world doing good works, they would be placed on God’s right hand, and counted as the sheep. It appears to me, as an atheist, I’ll spend eternity with God…assuming that there is a God.
All my bases are covered….if there is a God I’ll be in His hip pocket. If there is no God, I’ll have made the world a better place, and will be thankful for my works benefiting someone.
I will not your assistance to enable the help files.
I'll agree conditionally. Mainly, I'd like to add the caveat of actually DOING good works. Plenty of people can claim they do but don't do them. I'm well aware of at least one diehard agnostic who went out of his way to do the right thing, avoid doing the wrong thing, and helped people. In his case, at least, I'm confident this applies. He was rather vocal about doing the right thing because it was right.
I would say that, if there is no God, then doing good works and making the world a better place would be laudable in themselves, and worthwhile tasks. I would also say that, if there is a God, then doing the same has the additional benefit of pleasing Him, and He has the ability to reward people for good works.
It's also very easy to consider oneself a good person, and so on. Even a demonstrably evil person rarely calls himself such- he spins rationalizations that everyone else is just as evil as he is, and so on, or that there are no such things as real good deeds, and so on. By the time they're done, they've convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is- whatever evil thing they'd set their heart to do in the first place. If one fills one's heart with lies, that's what one is going to believe and think. The heart knows right from wrong- providing that's what the person has put in their heart.
It's also very easy to consider oneself a good person, and so on. Even a demonstrably evil person rarely calls himself such- he spins rationalizations that everyone else is just as evil as he is, and so on, or that there are no such things as real good deeds, and so on. By the time they're done, they've convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is- whatever evil thing they'd set their heart to do in the first place. If one fills one's heart with lies, that's what one is going to believe and think. The heart knows right from wrong- providing that's what the person has put in their heart.
You can certainly put VPW into this catagory, also. As far as being evil goes, folks who believe in God can be as evil as any unbeliever. RC priests have committed some of the most heinous sins and crimes against children. I’m sure they convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is whatever evil thing they’d set in their heart to do in the first place. Is God going to consider them sheep or goats?
You can certainly put VPW into this catagory, also. As far as being evil goes, folks who believe in God can be as evil as any unbeliever. RC priests have committed some of the most heinous sins and crimes against children. I’m sure they convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is whatever evil thing they’d set in their heart to do in the first place. Is God going to consider them sheep or goats?
Trick question, since there's nothing saying they will be considered either, or that there's only 2 options here. However, in case this question was asked sincerely, I will give a sincere answer with information.
For those people, and people like them, I would consider Matthew 18:6-7.
"6 but whoever*causesone of theselittleones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavymillstonehungaround his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
7"Woe to the worldbecause of its stumblingblocks! For it is inevitable that stumblingblockscome; but woe to that manthroughwhom the stumblingblockcomes!"
There's a considerable lack of detail and specifics there. However, the generalities are pretty clear that they should not look forward to rewards or approval- to put it very mildly. It sounds like they will be in a lot of trouble.
Hebrews 10:17 Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Going to the bible one can pull a verse to prove just about anything.
WW’s verse is quite damning and declares it would be better for a person to die than cause a little one to sin.
My two verses show a God that is very forgiving, and willing to forgive all indiscretions.
I guess it all depends on how you might feel on any given day. Do you want to come down hard on someone, or is your plan to exercise discretion and treat the sinner gently?
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Nathan_Jr
Maybe they WOULD be free to inquire, free to find out. ------ This topic hit hard for me recently. It's an issue that I've been concerned about for years. My son, 14, has been forced to g
Stayed Too Long
When I was a young man raised in the Catholic Church I so much wanted to please God. But the biggest thing the church taught me was condemnation. When ever I would have a sinful thought it would send
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chockfull
Because it would be a real response that could have personal insight in the subject matter. The more authentic you are the more you are believable.
Why I would care is that as an introvert I desire real connection and fake or inauthentic connection is irritating to me.
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Rocky
Why would you believe you have a right to demand or expect obedience or compliance or anything else from anyone?
As I understand it, that's not how life works.
Whether or not I am authentic is not something, from my perspective, that's at all dependent on whether I ever meet your expectations.
In case you MIGHT be interested, here's a gentle reminder of something someone important to me shared recently on FB. If you're not interested, by all means, disregard it.
"When someone is at war with themselves, it will be very hard for them to be peaceful with you. Remember that."
If you want "real connection" with me, you've been going about it all wrong.
As far as what I want, from you or anyone else, is to honor emotional boundaries. I can't expect if from you by demanding it of you. I am NOT trying to woo or control or influence or manipulate you for ANY kind of relationship.
As I DID say to you recently, you and I have NO relationship of any kind that would cause me to want to manipulate you for any reason. My wholeness (emotional or otherwise) is in no way dependent on you or anyone else, either here or IRL.
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Stayed Too Long
From my point of view, as an athiest, all the mythical gods, and Alluh, Elohim, etc….., the names of which are endless, are a myth. They never existed, they do not exist now, and they will not exist in the future.
Once you accept the fact that once you die, and you will go to the grave and decay like any other life on earth, you no longer have to be concerned about gaining or loosing rewards from an angry or loving God. Whew!!! Thank God. Lol.
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Stayed Too Long
You are going
with your comments. Please start a thread dealing with your concerns.
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chockfull
I have no concerns to need to start a new thread. I was answering a direct question. Or maybe a rhetorical one depending on how it was presented 100%. If that triggers you then maybe you should ask yourself why.
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Stayed Too Long
To to all posters.
This is the atheist forum and this particular thread is about raising children as atheists. Please do not go
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Nathan_Jr
I don’t disagree.
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chockfull
Calm down. Nobody is demanding anything. I was answering a question directly. Your post does seem to reflect what you have quoted in bold pretty well. The reason you would manipulate would be within yourself nothing to do with me at all.
It might have to do with the stats showing you have 14,000 plus posts when nobody else has even half that many.
I have noticed and did mention this to you that whenever the frequency of my posting increases so does the frequency of you correcting, contradicting or attacking my posts basically. So maybe your perceived status on this site threatened or I don’t even care enough to need to know why. I just know when the behavior occurs I am not caving in to it any more.
I was speaking in general terms regarding why I would care.
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Rocky
Reiterating STL's gentle request regarding you again seeming to think you (might) know what's going on inside my head.
In case you would like to actually know, you could start that other thread as STL so gently requested, and ask me for clarification. In which case, I would simply add that it is my understanding that it is NOT contrary to GSC rules to DISAGREE with points you make, positions you take, claims you state. If YOU feel attacked, that's something YOU might do or feel, not something I do to you.
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chockfull
Ok if it's not against GSC terms to pick at my posts and you will not agree to any modifications of your approach then I guess GSC is going to read a lot of me telling you what I think of that approach.
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chockfull
All right spongebob. I'm out. Talk to yourself
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Stayed Too Long
This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think.
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cman
you have no clue
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WordWolf
"This is the fear Christians must deal with every thought. Not only must a Christian be aware of physical sins they have performed, but also must be aware their God keeps track of every nasty thought they think."
I have to deal with this? News to me, and I'm confident it would be news to a LOT of Christians. There's a common saying- "Christians aren't perfect- just forgiven!" I'm sure there's SOME Christians SOMEWHERE who think like this, but I'm confident the majority do not- certainly the majority of GSC posters haven't thought that way.
On an unrelated note, we all have to "deal with every thought"- or we should. I like to do my own thinking, thank you, whether or not it matches a particular political party, organization, group, etc. Everyone actually IS responsible for their own actions- responsible to their own selves and responsible to society and societies, whether or not there's anyone above that. As for our thoughts, yes, we should take responsibility for our own thoughts, for good or bad. Our actions are based on our thoughts. Sow a bad thought, reap a bad action. Freedoms comes with responsibility- the freedom to think for yourself and act for yourself comes with the responsibility to think and act responsibly.
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WordWolf
You might find it interesting to consider that the Bible says that Jesus recommended that for UNBELIEVERS. (Not that helping others and doing good isn't recommended for believers, but I hardly think that qualifies as news by now.)
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Stayed Too Long
I agree we should evaluate our thoughts and take responsibility for them, good or bad. That is how we grow mentally and ultimately in our actions.
However, I no longer give a second mention to see if the thought lines up with God, which for me is very freeing. I used to evaluate my thoughts with what God said, and it resulted in considerable condemnation.
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Stayed Too Long
I searched google for God recommending doing good for the unbeliever, but found no results. Would you please provide a link? Thank you.
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WordWolf
I noticed earlier in the thread, you mentioned growing up Roman Catholic, and that there was a lot of guilt and condemnation served up with everything else. That's a shame, but hardly universal among Christians, let alone Roman Catholics. I do think Catholicism has lost large numbers to other Christian groups without all the condemnation- from those who actually teach the condemnation. (There's other reasons too, but going to church AND feeling bad is a senseless combination.)
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WordWolf
The section I was thinking of at the time was Matthew 25: 31-46.
Let me know if you need me to "enable the help files" on that.
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Stayed Too Long
If, as I suggested, that people should go about the world doing good works, they would be placed on God’s right hand, and counted as the sheep. It appears to me, as an atheist, I’ll spend eternity with God…assuming that there is a God.
All my bases are covered….if there is a God I’ll be in His hip pocket. If there is no God, I’ll have made the world a better place, and will be thankful for my works benefiting someone.
I will not your assistance to enable the help files.
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WordWolf
I'll agree conditionally. Mainly, I'd like to add the caveat of actually DOING good works. Plenty of people can claim they do but don't do them. I'm well aware of at least one diehard agnostic who went out of his way to do the right thing, avoid doing the wrong thing, and helped people. In his case, at least, I'm confident this applies. He was rather vocal about doing the right thing because it was right.
I would say that, if there is no God, then doing good works and making the world a better place would be laudable in themselves, and worthwhile tasks. I would also say that, if there is a God, then doing the same has the additional benefit of pleasing Him, and He has the ability to reward people for good works.
It's also very easy to consider oneself a good person, and so on. Even a demonstrably evil person rarely calls himself such- he spins rationalizations that everyone else is just as evil as he is, and so on, or that there are no such things as real good deeds, and so on. By the time they're done, they've convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is- whatever evil thing they'd set their heart to do in the first place. If one fills one's heart with lies, that's what one is going to believe and think. The heart knows right from wrong- providing that's what the person has put in their heart.
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Stayed Too Long
You can certainly put VPW into this catagory, also. As far as being evil goes, folks who believe in God can be as evil as any unbeliever. RC priests have committed some of the most heinous sins and crimes against children. I’m sure they convinced themselves that the only proper thing to do is whatever evil thing they’d set in their heart to do in the first place. Is God going to consider them sheep or goats?
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WordWolf
Trick question, since there's nothing saying they will be considered either, or that there's only 2 options here. However, in case this question was asked sincerely, I will give a sincere answer with information.
For those people, and people like them, I would consider Matthew 18:6-7.
"6 but whoever * causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.
7 "Woe to the world because of its stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!"
There's a considerable lack of detail and specifics there. However, the generalities are pretty clear that they should not look forward to rewards or approval- to put it very mildly. It sounds like they will be in a lot of trouble.
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Stayed Too Long
Hebrews 10:17
Then he adds, “I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more.”
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Going to the bible one can pull a verse to prove just about anything.
WW’s verse is quite damning and declares it would be better for a person to die than cause a little one to sin.
My two verses show a God that is very forgiving, and willing to forgive all indiscretions.
I guess it all depends on how you might feel on any given day. Do you want to come down hard on someone, or is your plan to exercise discretion and treat the sinner gently?
You can choose A,B, or C, or all of the above.
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