I want everyone to be happy. Just, why are people here?
To shine LIGHT on the darkness we've seen. Why would that be a bad thing?
2 hours ago, Joe Maslow said:
The Way has changed in the recent years? For sure, ¿ real changes? Not at all. TWI is bringing back the "good old years", uploading VPW teachings on their Youtube Channel, offering basically the same content. And hiding some of their core teachings in order to look more appealing to a younger crowd.
Good people in TWI? For sure, you can find good people everywhere.
You'll receive a lot of love in the beginning (Love-bombing uhh) ; as long as you don't commit to the ministry, they won't ask much of you. When you become deeply involved with TWI, the hell and abuse begin. And even though LCM's abusive tactics are no longer as prevalent, the emotional and psychological manipulation persists.
And, thank you, Joe. Somehow I imagined us all as seniors, I think it's fascinating to hear from someone recently with The Way. I'd love to hear your story, too.
Just got my call from the "Limb Coordinator", if that's what we're still saying.
Wonderful, fascinating conversation. He's 65 and he's been around his whole life...I mean, he's telling me about VPW's tangential real life relationship with the people in the recent movie, Jesus Revolution. Yep, both of us, doing a comparison of Lonnie Frisbee and VPW. Along those lines, Ted Haggard, ever heard of him? I had the opportunity to speak to him after church once.
I'm pretty much full. Gotta process. Gotta 'hear' from God. Still hope to hit the Rock and maybe now a "limb" meeting.
If you spill your story out here, Joe, I'll be listening.
It's too early for me to share the personal and painful details of my life. I can tell you that with the support of God , my family, a psychiatrist, and a psychologist, I've been able to move forward. Although I don't resent TWI, I wouldn't recommend anyone attend TWI unless it's ONLY to receive information about Romans 10:9 and then leave in peace.
Where do I start? Lies about the ministry's origin, lies about the content they teach, plagiarism, abuse. Leaders believe they are chosen by God because of VPW's misuse of Romans 13, and those leaders believe that since they are called by God, they can do whatever they please. If you are with the ministry, they will be with you; if you walk away from the ministry, all those friends.. will stop talking to you. They use people, they don't love them.
They "research" the WORD OF God only to the extent that it doesn't contradict VPW. (CULT-RED FLAG)
They have abused thousands of people around the world, and now that Martindale and Rivenbark are gone... they go around telling people to "forgive" and move forward with the "Love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." It's not an honest organization that publicly and openly acknowledges mistakes; they only do so privately (at some point the will do) TIME TO COME HOME uhh?
They don't teach people not to harm; They don't teach people not to harm; they demand that victims forgive abusers, and they keep the abusers in power.
If you want details, send me a PM.
God Bless U,
PD: Vern seems like a good man, with good intentions. But he doesn't have the strength to weed out TWI's sectarian practices. (I met him 3 times)
To shine LIGHT on the darkness we've seen. Why would that be a bad thing?
I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on.
As a ministry I can better understand it, giving others the opportunity to talk over their issues. But, that would be ministry. Service.
Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh.
About that, I think I've learned there's only one thing in the world that never gets old and that's the Holy Spirit. That's true. Songs get old, the presence of God never gets old.
I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on.
Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh.
Do you not see a parallel with a certain religiopolitical ideology to which you are so fervently opposed? You haven’t moved on from that, even though you’ve got it all worked out.
What if someone told you to quit crying and move on?
I don't care how he spends he spends his time. Just saying, that wouldn't be for me.
Now you're going to start that again and act like I started it again!?
At this point I'm ready to listen to somebody else talk about what they want to talk about. 5 pages of this thread, here. I'm ready to follow the wind of the spirit where it blows.
When someone so wildly misses the point, it seems to me there are at least three reasons. 1. They are incapable of understanding. 2. They willfully ignore the point. 3. I failed to articulate.
I always assume #3 first.
You asked why people are here at Greasespot. Rocky said to shed light on darkness. Then you said, "I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on. Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh."
I attempted to illustrate a parallel to a familiar, yet vague, concept to encourage you to examine your own dismissiveness of the value people derive from this board. Try this. You've already talked out your views on the trinity. Yet, I assume, you still talk about it, you still make your case against it. (I'm not a trinitarian, btw.)
What if someone told you to quit crying about the trinity and move on?
Can you not see you dismissed and minimized in the exact same way a reason why people are here at Greasespot?
No one is being combative with you. You asked questions and answers were provided. You've accused people, at least implicitly, of crying and not moving on. I tried to help you understand that your dismissiveness is not merely a childish cop out, it's a form of gaslighting. Perhaps my showing you this caused you discomfort, causing you to falsely accuse me of trying to start a forbidden topic while blaming you for it.
After admittIng the possibility of my own failure at communicating, I offered a different illustration. Now you 're gaslighting again accusing people of being combative. This is how you react when you are challenged and corrected?
It's a discussion. You aren't the only one allowed to take a passionate position for or against an idea.
Raf can answer for himself, obviously, but I read his post as just showing you around - what's available, how to get it, and what to do with it once you've got it. Different forums for different topics. Discuss whatever you want.
Only politics is out of bounds. Avoid politics and you're good.
Pretty much.
Categories are supposed to facilitate discussion, not hamper it.
Whether something belongs in Doctrinal or About the Way is sometimes a matter of nuance and emphasis. And yes, there will be overlap. Our discussion about Speaking in Tongues was about all of the above. It was impossible to discuss whether TWI taught us all to fake SIT without at least agreeing on what SIT means in TWI and in Christianity. So a lot of the debate was whether the thread belonged in About the Way or doctrinal, and no one was really wrong.
Point is, put your thread where you think it goes. If we feel a need to move it, we will, and we will explain why.
Politics is a problem because folks on both sides proved incapable of having a conversation without it degenerating into namecalling and personal attacks, and no one trusted the moderators to be neutral or consistent.
Yes, sometimes religion and politics cross paths. TWI's right wing identity is a part of who they are. But so is their pro-choice stand.
Tread carefully and respectfully, and we will do our best to do the same.
There's one story of TWI I haven't told. I forget about it. Now, it comes back.
After my two wonderful ROAs, I eventually wound up in the Army. I got back out and joined a twig. Some of us went together to some fall Harvest weekend at HQ.
Everything felt different. There was a malaise over the place. As a relative outsider I was used to the kind of music you hear from the platform. This more informal weekend, the Fresh Prez was DJing a dance with music like ZZ Top, Legs.
On Sunday we were sitting third row center in the WOW auditorium. LCM looked down into my eyes, I looked up at him expectantly, then BAM! A demonic transference took place, I had been hit. That thing hit my brain coiling itself around like Battling Tops.
I didn't know what to do. Should I get out of there fast, speaking in tongues, rebuking it, making a scene? How would I explain that to my twig coordinator and the people with whom I was trying to fit in? I had never experienced anything like this, just how serious is this?
That demonic bondage has been with me since. I feel it right now as I type. It's always there but I forget about it. I didn't run out of the auditorium. I stayed as we sang something like How Firm a Foundation.
Only God knows how this has impacted me for 30 years. All the churching I mentioned I did in this current state. Once, when a man named Bobby Connor was preaching, it started making noises. I got up and walked out of the room.
So, I apologize to anyone with fresh wounds I may have offended. I've sought deliverance and been told to get over it myself. I'm trying... I have. Laying on the floor, speaking in tongues trying to rebuke it. Some long fasts. Go here, go there, sitting in deliverance class.
I sat through Exercising Spiritual Authority, or whatever it's called with Dr Dale Sides of LMCI. In earlier days he'd do a mass deliverance of everyone in the room. Hacking, coughing, shrieking, it was quite a spectacle. I was not affected, however.
Yeah, it can get bad. Freedom for me has been coping. Pushing on. And, having recalled all this and spoken it openly (there are a few people on the planet who could figure out who I am) I have to rethink my plans
And just for my own benefit, I like women, OK? Thank you Jesus that's not what I wrestle with.
True story. And, I dropped out of the intermediate class.
I dropped in for the weekend. What about all the people who took all the classes and lived there in training? Those demons had a lot more time to work.
As I said, I dropped out of the Intermediate Class. I just didn't feel comfortable saying whatever came to mind. Doubtless, demons started with me maybe in the womb, who knows?
I'd hear a guy in twig proclaiming, once again, 'walk forth boldly on my word...'. You could predict it. I just wasn't settled with it. Wasn't even allowed to take CFS.
Dale Sides was a Corp graduate, I believe. Deliverance, that was his thing (one of his things). Been prayed over by a lot of people. Unless someone truly has experience and insight, I don't take this matter to men anymore. For 30 years I've just been going and doing best I can.
I spoke of a malaise, though. That was real. Seems everyone was affected by. Idk, I 'see' the Holy Spirit working right next to demons all the time. All over the place. Paul writes of the disarray in the assemblies sitting alone in prison in his latter years.
There's one story of TWI I haven't told. I forget about it. Now, it comes back.
After my two wonderful ROAs, I eventually wound up in the Army. I got back out and joined a twig. Some of us went together to some fall Harvest weekend at HQ.
Everything felt different. There was a malaise over the place. As a relative outsider I was used to the kind of music you hear from the platform. This more informal weekend, the Fresh Prez was DJing a dance with music like ZZ Top, Legs.
On Sunday we were sitting third row center in the WOW auditorium. LCM looked down into my eyes, I looked up at him expectantly, then BAM! A demonic transference took place, I had been hit. That thing hit my brain coiling itself around like Battling Tops.
I didn't know what to do. Should I get out of there fast, speaking in tongues, rebuking it, making a scene? How would I explain that to my twig coordinator and the people with whom I was trying to fit in? I had never experienced anything like this, just how serious is this?
That demonic bondage has been with me since. I feel it right now as I type. It's always there but I forget about it. I didn't run out of the auditorium. I stayed as we sang something like How Firm a Foundation.
Only God knows how this has impacted me for 30 years. All the churching I mentioned I did in this current state. Once, when a man named Bobby Connor was preaching, it started making noises. I got up and walked out of the room.
So, I apologize to anyone with fresh wounds I may have offended. I've sought deliverance and been told to get over it myself. I'm trying... I have. Laying on the floor, speaking in tongues trying to rebuke it. Some long fasts. Go here, go there, sitting in deliverance class.
I sat through Exercising Spiritual Authority, or whatever it's called with Dr Dale Sides of LMCI. In earlier days he'd do a mass deliverance of everyone in the room. Hacking, coughing, shrieking, it was quite a spectacle. I was not affected, however.
Yeah, it can get bad. Freedom for me has been coping. Pushing on. And, having recalled all this and spoken it openly (there are a few people on the planet who could figure out who I am) I have to rethink my plans
And just for my own benefit, I like women, OK? Thank you Jesus that's not what I wrestle with.
The are NO SUCH THING as devil spirits. You learned about them while in twi and this explains why you thought of one when LCM looked at you with all the pride and evil that were behind those eyes of his. Being involved with the other ministries you've mentioned only cemented your belief in demons because they are steeped in teaching about them and falsely claiming to rebuke them.
Christianity is a fear-based doctrine that ministries/religions feed off of and become rich from because of the hold this doctrine has on keeping people in line. If you want to be free of having to cope with such a mythical being as an evil spirit, start deconstructing from what the bible teaches about them. Begin with the whole concept of the fall of Lucifer and then go straight to the most inane story of the serpent with Adam and Eve in the garden whereby all mankind supposedly inherited an evil and sinful nature and Satan became the god of this world.
I appreciate your kind concern. So, when I wrote about those people talking about their out of body experiences, you don't think that's real either?
When it comes to the supernatural realm, I'm long gone out there. I've experienced a lot, but I've heard a lot more and frankly, I'm jealous. Take Will, for instance, I believe every word:
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Junior Corps Surviver
The foolish man built his house upon the sand and the rains came down and the floods came up... Glad they were nice to you. They are a poorly researched, mean spirited cult who worshipped a man a
Rocky
Glad you had a good experience Joyful. For many of us here, it would take a lot more than people being friendly and joyful to overcome the darkness the organization embraced for many years.
Joe Maslow
No, thanks.
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Rocky
To shine LIGHT on the darkness we've seen. Why would that be a bad thing?
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Joe Maslow
It's too early for me to share the personal and painful details of my life. I can tell you that with the support of God , my family, a psychiatrist, and a psychologist, I've been able to move forward. Although I don't resent TWI, I wouldn't recommend anyone attend TWI unless it's ONLY to receive information about Romans 10:9 and then leave in peace.
Where do I start? Lies about the ministry's origin, lies about the content they teach, plagiarism, abuse. Leaders believe they are chosen by God because of VPW's misuse of Romans 13, and those leaders believe that since they are called by God, they can do whatever they please. If you are with the ministry, they will be with you; if you walk away from the ministry, all those friends.. will stop talking to you. They use people, they don't love them.
They "research" the WORD OF God only to the extent that it doesn't contradict VPW. (CULT-RED FLAG)
They have abused thousands of people around the world, and now that Martindale and Rivenbark are gone... they go around telling people to "forgive" and move forward with the "Love of God in the renewed mind in manifestation." It's not an honest organization that publicly and openly acknowledges mistakes; they only do so privately (at some point the will do) TIME TO COME HOME uhh?
They don't teach people not to harm; They don't teach people not to harm; they demand that victims forgive abusers, and they keep the abusers in power.
If you want details, send me a PM.
God Bless U,
PD: Vern seems like a good man, with good intentions. But he doesn't have the strength to weed out TWI's sectarian practices. (I met him 3 times)
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waysider
And as the sun set slowly in the west and the cows mosied toward the safety of the barn...
EDIT: Oops. I forgot the part about the smiling driver, waving gleefully as he sped past and continued down the road.
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JoyfulSoul
I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on.
As a ministry I can better understand it, giving others the opportunity to talk over their issues. But, that would be ministry. Service.
Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh.
About that, I think I've learned there's only one thing in the world that never gets old and that's the Holy Spirit. That's true. Songs get old, the presence of God never gets old.
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Nathan_Jr
lol. I almost forgot how privately interpreted this was.
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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Nathan_Jr
Do you not see a parallel with a certain religiopolitical ideology to which you are so fervently opposed? You haven’t moved on from that, even though you’ve got it all worked out.
What if someone told you to quit crying and move on?
See?
It’s kinda like that.
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JoyfulSoul
I don't care how he spends he spends his time. Just saying, that wouldn't be for me.
Now you're going to start that again and act like I started it again!?
At this point I'm ready to listen to somebody else talk about what they want to talk about. 5 pages of this thread, here. I'm ready to follow the wind of the spirit where it blows.
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Nathan_Jr
When someone so wildly misses the point, it seems to me there are at least three reasons. 1. They are incapable of understanding. 2. They willfully ignore the point. 3. I failed to articulate.
I always assume #3 first.
You asked why people are here at Greasespot. Rocky said to shed light on darkness. Then you said, "I can kind of understand that for awhile but then I'd be moving on. Once I've talked something out I'm looking for fresh."
I attempted to illustrate a parallel to a familiar, yet vague, concept to encourage you to examine your own dismissiveness of the value people derive from this board. Try this. You've already talked out your views on the trinity. Yet, I assume, you still talk about it, you still make your case against it. (I'm not a trinitarian, btw.)
What if someone told you to quit crying about the trinity and move on?
Can you not see you dismissed and minimized in the exact same way a reason why people are here at Greasespot?
Edited by Nathan_JrGloves
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waysider
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Rocky
Gosh golly gee... is it OUR job to convince the JoyfulSoul guy to be less judgmental? I kinda doubt it.
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Nathan_Jr
Of course not. Just shedding light on darkness.
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JoyfulSoul
Some on this board have been consistently kind and welcoming.
Others of you have been consistently combative.
Gentlemen, I have no interest in this. Where's the prize? What would make a ....ing contest worthwhile?
I've probably stepped on toes. Sorry about that. If I'm going to be combative with anyone there better be something worth winning.
https://x.com/TopGResistance/status/1920262595455357177?t=r2Ene5aPv5pHM4VSHYR6hQ&s=19
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Nathan_Jr
No one is being combative with you. You asked questions and answers were provided. You've accused people, at least implicitly, of crying and not moving on. I tried to help you understand that your dismissiveness is not merely a childish cop out, it's a form of gaslighting. Perhaps my showing you this caused you discomfort, causing you to falsely accuse me of trying to start a forbidden topic while blaming you for it.
After admittIng the possibility of my own failure at communicating, I offered a different illustration. Now you 're gaslighting again accusing people of being combative. This is how you react when you are challenged and corrected?
It's a discussion. You aren't the only one allowed to take a passionate position for or against an idea.
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waysider
Some perspective on "the OTHER side of the story".
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Rocky
It's JUST a discussion. It's not a competition.
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modcat5
Pretty much.
Categories are supposed to facilitate discussion, not hamper it.
Whether something belongs in Doctrinal or About the Way is sometimes a matter of nuance and emphasis. And yes, there will be overlap. Our discussion about Speaking in Tongues was about all of the above. It was impossible to discuss whether TWI taught us all to fake SIT without at least agreeing on what SIT means in TWI and in Christianity. So a lot of the debate was whether the thread belonged in About the Way or doctrinal, and no one was really wrong.
Point is, put your thread where you think it goes. If we feel a need to move it, we will, and we will explain why.
Politics is a problem because folks on both sides proved incapable of having a conversation without it degenerating into namecalling and personal attacks, and no one trusted the moderators to be neutral or consistent.
Yes, sometimes religion and politics cross paths. TWI's right wing identity is a part of who they are. But so is their pro-choice stand.
Tread carefully and respectfully, and we will do our best to do the same.
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JoyfulSoul
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waysider
Have you tried to turn counterclockwise, look in the mirror and say "Mary Worth" 3 times?
Well, you just never know until you try.
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JoyfulSoul
True story. And, I dropped out of the intermediate class.
I dropped in for the weekend. What about all the people who took all the classes and lived there in training? Those demons had a lot more time to work.
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Nathan_Jr
Have you taken the Advanced Class?
It’s all about devils. I believe the counterclockwise method Waysider mentioned is explained in the AC.
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JoyfulSoul
I thought that was a joke.
As I said, I dropped out of the Intermediate Class. I just didn't feel comfortable saying whatever came to mind. Doubtless, demons started with me maybe in the womb, who knows?
I'd hear a guy in twig proclaiming, once again, 'walk forth boldly on my word...'. You could predict it. I just wasn't settled with it. Wasn't even allowed to take CFS.
Dale Sides was a Corp graduate, I believe. Deliverance, that was his thing (one of his things). Been prayed over by a lot of people. Unless someone truly has experience and insight, I don't take this matter to men anymore. For 30 years I've just been going and doing best I can.
I spoke of a malaise, though. That was real. Seems everyone was affected by. Idk, I 'see' the Holy Spirit working right next to demons all the time. All over the place. Paul writes of the disarray in the assemblies sitting alone in prison in his latter years.
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Nathan_Jr
Kinda, but not really.
You can watch the whole thing at Internet Archive.
Advanced Class transcripts can also be found there.
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Charity
The are NO SUCH THING as devil spirits. You learned about them while in twi and this explains why you thought of one when LCM looked at you with all the pride and evil that were behind those eyes of his. Being involved with the other ministries you've mentioned only cemented your belief in demons because they are steeped in teaching about them and falsely claiming to rebuke them.
Christianity is a fear-based doctrine that ministries/religions feed off of and become rich from because of the hold this doctrine has on keeping people in line. If you want to be free of having to cope with such a mythical being as an evil spirit, start deconstructing from what the bible teaches about them. Begin with the whole concept of the fall of Lucifer and then go straight to the most inane story of the serpent with Adam and Eve in the garden whereby all mankind supposedly inherited an evil and sinful nature and Satan became the god of this world.
I sincerely hope you do.
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JoyfulSoul
I don't know if I should laugh or cry, Charity?
I appreciate your kind concern. So, when I wrote about those people talking about their out of body experiences, you don't think that's real either?
When it comes to the supernatural realm, I'm long gone out there. I've experienced a lot, but I've heard a lot more and frankly, I'm jealous. Take Will, for instance, I believe every word:
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