Why are they suing? To get back at TWI for actual or perceived wrongs done to them. They have the right to seek relief through the courts and I support them doing so, if they wish.
quote:
Will they settle? All I can say is a year or two ago, when this all began, they were very firm in their conviction that this should go to trial …
I would expect them, and most others who file suit, to say no less. But most suits end with a settlement and I suspect that they would settle, if they believed that was to their advantage. TWI might not be willing to settle. Unless there was something unusual in TWI’s dealings with the Peelers, as opposed to their dealings with “believers” in general, I don’t see how TWI could afford to settle this one. To do so would invite a flood of similar suits.
quote:
And why should you blame them? It's their deal-not yours or mine.
I’m not blaming them for anything. I don’t even think about them, unless I happen to read something here. If I do, and if I have a comment about what I’ve read, I post it.
quote:
We should all wish the best for them rather than continuously criticize them for what they are attempting to do.
I wouldn’t say that “we should all” do anything. This is a discussion forum. I would expect people to post whatever thoughts they wish, within the bounds of GS rules. Most people haven’t criticized them.
quote:
How about we wish them the best in their efforts and let them know we stand behind them in all they are attempting?
I don’t stand behind them. Neither do I stand in opposition to them. The most I’ll do that will have anything to do with them will be to occasionally post a few thoughts on threads other people start.
Why can't people quit picking on others who have the GUTS to take action rather than try to discredit them?
LearnedTooLate, it really doesn't take a lot of guts to start a lawsuit. All it takes is money. One may start a frivilous lawsuit if they have money, as well.
quote:
You're right. They (TWI) won't change until they are hit in the pocketbook. I, personally, am thankful for people like the Allens & the Peelers who put themselves at more risk of heartache to set TWI straight. I wish I had it in me. It's not so much about personal gain, although who can blame them for wanting financial restitution for the trauma they are putting themselves through to go through the process of a lawsuit.
The Allen's never went thru a trauma of a twi lawsuit. I, and I'm guessing many of us, wish they had followed thru with their original intentions to go thru with the lawsuit so that all the facts would have been exposed under oath. But, you know when you have that green stuff shoved in your face, the temptation can be overwhelming.
quote:
It's about making TWI stop and think about what they are doing. It's also about making the remaining followers take notice of where their ABS money is now going! Gosh, how much did it cost them to defend LCM in the Allen's lawsuit? And the Peeler's suit is costing a whole lot more, I bet, because they are going to the end. They aren't going to settle (or so I've heard).
Gosh, let's hope that's true. But that green stuff does have a sweet smell to it, doncha think? But if they decide to follow thru and not settle, and lose, THEN I'd say they will have something to complain about.
Well as a giver of some of the *green stuff* that twi accrued, I`d have to say that I would prefer for ANYBODY else to have it and utilize it than twi.
I doubt that the peelers or their attornies could misspend it anymore spectacularly than twi does/did.
It isn`t their money that the peelers stand to gain anyway, no more than the campuses that they sold off or any of the assets. It is ours, the folks whom they took the money and labor from all of these years.
Well I think of the vacations they enjoyed, the best quality of food and *toys*
I know that twi financed an abortion or two.
How many millions have been lost in settled lawsuits and attornies fees protecting craigs fanny....all REAL Godly uses for that money extorted from us in his name.
This lawsuit, if found favorable by the courts, can and will open the door for many of us whose hearts and lives have been destroyed by a group CLAIMING to be teaching us about God and His love for us, but who were only taking advantage of us.
LearnedTooLate, this is a reason why I'm against the Peelers lawsuit, as I do not agree with their premise as touching "us". That's a conclusion that's very very hard to prove. If the Peelers can prove in open court that THEIR OWN hearts and lives were destroyed by TWI who "CLAIMED" to THEM to teach THEM about God and his love for THEM, but who were only taking advantage of THEM, then more power to them. I doubt they can prove that but I wasn't there to witness their involvement in TWI or how they may have been "abused".
But I do know that they can't prove abuse touching MY involvement, and I'm guessing, many folks' involvement. I won't speak for others although I know of few who were not abused and they'd say so.
That's one of the problems with the whole case, this idea of some collective abuse, like we were all victims because of our involvement. The Peeler's don't speak for everyone, and should stop trying to suggest that we were abused "as a group".
I'm sure twi, if need be, could bring forth more than enough witnesses who will rebut the claim of some massive, community abuse.
Their claim sort of reminds me of something that might be similar to a cigarette smoker who smoked for years, who then had developed massive health problems, and the courts ruling that the massive health problems were caused by involuntary smoking and the smoker gets a huge award for smoking for years.
They'd first need to prove that the smoking was not voluntary. Very very hard to prove.
Next they'd have to prove damages. That their smoking was the cause of their massive illnesses.
How were the Peeler's involvement involuntary?
And what specifically are the Peeler's abuses/damages? Anything ongoing? Anything terminal?
They have to prove these things to some pretty smart folks. My guess is, they can't.
The Peeler's ARE speaking for themselves and attempting to show that TWI failed in their fiduciary responsibility to "the Peeler's"...Not "us".
This discussion would be a whole lot easier if you'd quit taking my opinions and thoughts and attributing them to the Peeler's lawsuit. I am using "us" in an attempt to clarify just what it is they are suing about. Sorry to confuse you, but then I'll bet you are trying to be confused just to have something to argue and be a sourpuss about.
There is nothing, to my knowledge (and my knowledge is very limited, I don't think I've even read the lawsuit) that says the Peeler's are suing TWI for any "collective abuse". It is an individual case from and about them.
When speaking with Ron, and his attorney, (ah, Lawrence Levy! THAT'S his name. Slow memory!) I got the distinct impression that they wanted this case to possibly lay the ground work for future claims/lawsuits by making public the depositions and court records after it was done. Yes, they could change their mind and settle. That's their deal. And I wouldn't blame them one bit, especially since some people are so freaking ungrateful for any little headway we make against TWI. Good God, the Allen's poured blood into THEIR lawsuit (as I'm sure the Peeler's are) and it's easy to see how they got tired of it all and decided to walk away with the cash. I hope they are enjoying it in grand fashion!
It is my hope that the Peeler's are able to hold out and stand strong until the end so more of TWI's lies and atrocities are exposed. But if they decide not to then I'll sure be thankful for how hard they worked for what they attempted because it means TWI WASTED their money fighting this and WASTED their time and attention that they might have used otherwise hurting other innocent God-seeking people.
The Peeler's (and the Allen's) are already victorious in that they have brought A LOT of attention to 'supposed' wrong doings of TWI and that's making many people take notice. Good for them!
So, to the Peeler's, Allen's & anyone else who has ever stood against TWI and said, "Hey, wait a minute there..." YAHOO to you all and thanks a bunch! I sure appreciate it. I'll betcha many others do, too. Except for LongGone. He's taking sourpuss pills regularly and can't seem to see the good in the situation.
Yep.. folks I heard talking said the guy who sued the tobacco conglomerates didn't have a leg to stand on either..
I wonder how far the damages can be assessed. Seems if there is some kind of conspiracy proven, no amount of corporate protection would stand between the Peelers and any assests any of those numbnuts have hid anywhere, private or not.
"poor" old Rosie and Donna probably have to go out in the real world, "borrow" a couple of shopping carts and "work" the dumpsters..
I don't think they'd find very many wayfers willing to support them.
WAYGB- If I was you, I'd start circulating a few resumes- don't know how well "worked twenty-five years in a stinking cult for two dollars an hour" is gonna read with a prospective employer though.
Yup, and I would imagine that there will come a day when they will have to answere for what they have done...and the excuse that *I was just doing my job* is not going to cut em any slack.
Yep. Thing I don't understand, why stay in that cesspool? Holy cow.. despite my sarcasm, I'd be willing to lend a hand, or at least point you in the right direction. Do SOMETHING- if not for your own stinking hide, think about your FAMILY.
Think the Peeler's don't stand a chance? Go ahead- gamble all you want- its not MY life.
Do u think it was G-dly for the TWI to promise that man in the wheelchair that he would walk again if he bought leadership a snappy new BMW?
And before you say it yes they did admit guilt,
if they where innocent would they have settled? Doubt it!!! As a matter of a fact another question why don't TWI/BOT, file a counter claim for slander. (Which if all of these suits were as frivolous as u seem to feel they would win).
I don't know the Peeler's or the Allen's never met them once, don't need to, I full heartly believe in the system, and I question why TWI settles with everyone? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...
If they are beyond reproach, have them open their books get a forensic account to go thru it, hell make it a condition of the law suit that if they are found to be innocent (ok, i'm laughing 2)the Peeler's or whomever is responsible for their cost. I feel this is fair.
On another note do u try to be as offensive as u are? Cause if u do hats off! You have never address the points,
1. The way international has promised to heal people for $$, and not come thru.
2. Maybe, when u where there this wasn't the case but when I was in TWI, (84-95) it was the norm, to be pressued to give more "abundantly"
and if u did not you dissapointed TMOGFOT, and who would want that. Oh, and if u want me to believe that these things never happened to u, then I demand the same in return.
3. If u did not do what TWI wanted they would hold above your head the threat of being "M&A", and if u were m&a, you stood to lose a lot, again if this didn't happen while you where in TWI I'm glad, but it did while I was there.
Now notice Oldsie I only used singular pronouns, and asked you direct questions,
my last one being...
I want to know if YOU BELIEVE that it was moraly correct on any level for TWI, to tell someone how to run their personal finances?
And again was it G-dly in any way shape or form for someone in leadership to promise a man in a wheelchair, that if he gave them money and gifts, G-d would heal him?
PLEASE ANSWER.
so you don't think I am afraid to put my name on this.
Sharon Langer Mercado Lustig.(every name I've ever had, although u question that)
ps. the dancing money is offensive at best insulting to me.
You know oldsie, you are being mean. no other word but mean.
You expect everyone to believe that your time spent in the Way was filled with wine and roses. Fair enough I don't know you, I believe you, why would you waste your energy and your time bs. the collective forum post.
So therefore you should in fact give other people that same respect. Not only that but, YOU are in the minority, not to say that I don't have some (1/2) good as a matter of fact very good memories of my time in TWI. I posted on an earlier forum, how much one of Mich**l F*rts teachings ment to me. I love some of the people who are still in. I love more who got out.
In case you haven't heard, at a very low point in my life I decided to take the PFAL class again, to renew my mind on G-d's word. I spoke with HQ., because I was not sure of my status as my then husband family had just been austed.
Got permission to take class, and joined with a glad heart. Because I am who I am I made cookies, (I was VERY pregnant at the time), peanut butter and chocolate chip cookies, and I took them...
Got there and these fools running the class told me that my friggin cookies where a distraction to the new students, that I was taking the focus off of G-d's word and putting it on wordly needs. What a crock of ....!!!
I do not give a rat's tookes wether u believe me or not, but if everything was as wonderful as you would like ME to believe I guess the obvious question is WHY DID U LEAVE?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Or perhaps did i find something else to agree with TWI, that u are mean.
Don't worry, you can change you can be healed, you can get those self loving devil spirits out of you, me I'm keeping mine! I'm making cookies, and if anyone wants one they know my name.
again for the record:
Sharon Langer Mercado Lustig
(oh yea checked with ex-husband, who was holding said cookies and that is exactly, what was said when I gave the woman the cookies.
I don't know all the reasons why TWI has settled some claims out of court. It all depends on the complaint but I guess it's because they see it as more costly for them, both in perception and finances, if there were a trial than not. But twi settling a case doesn't mean they couldn't win, or that the ones suing have a great case. TWI most likely settles because of what they are afraid of losing.
This discussion would be a whole lot easier if you'd quit taking my opinions and thoughts and attributing them to the Peeler's lawsuit.
I’m not. I attribute them to you, and only you.
quote:
There is nothing, to my knowledge (and my knowledge is very limited, I don't think I've even read the lawsuit) that says the Peeler's are suing TWI for any "collective abuse".
Nobody suggested that they are, or that you said they are. I addressed your statements that the suit is about “making TWI stop and think about what they are doing” and ”making the remaining followers take notice of where their ABS money is now going.” I also addressed your statement that the Peelers “aren’t going to settle.” I said nothing negative about the Peelers, but you read blame and criticism of them into my response to you. I addressed that, again without negativity, blame, or criticism. I see no point in continuing.
Phil (oldiesman) has said on more than one occasion that he *would* return to TWI if there were a twig within convenient distance of him.
He is more pro-TWI than half the innies out there, and that's saying something.
He sings only 2 songs - one of them is "my time with TWI was all sun and roses", and the other is "you women always claim to be the victims".
Steve!, just so there are no misunderstandings and false impressions repeatedly asserted:
1) I said that if someone invited me back to a fellowship, I would go and check it out. I didn't say I would remain or be a regular, and if you recall, I said if I attended a fellowship, I wouldn't give a dime. Remember that, Steve!?
2) I am pro-twi-1. that covers my experience with TWI-1. I am NOT pro-twi-2. Although I will say that in some cases, I take their side because of the obnoxious and unrelenting attacks against them.
3) My time with twi-1 wasn't all sun and roses, so you misrepresent what I've said. And regarding the women being victims, some of them were, some of them weren't. And that's really old stuff, we haven't discussed that stuff in probably over a year yet you're still thinking about those really old posts.
Got there and these fools running the class told me that my friggin cookies where a distraction to the new students, that I was taking the focus off of G-d's word and putting it on wordly needs. What a crock of ....!!!
Sharon I bet you make great cookies and I would have been blessed to have some. They were off the wall to refuse them.
You ask some good questions and I don't have answers to them. But I'd love some cookies. mmmmmmm
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LG
Why are they suing? To get back at TWI for actual or perceived wrongs done to them. They have the right to seek relief through the courts and I support them doing so, if they wish.
I would expect them, and most others who file suit, to say no less. But most suits end with a settlement and I suspect that they would settle, if they believed that was to their advantage. TWI might not be willing to settle. Unless there was something unusual in TWI’s dealings with the Peelers, as opposed to their dealings with “believers” in general, I don’t see how TWI could afford to settle this one. To do so would invite a flood of similar suits. I’m not blaming them for anything. I don’t even think about them, unless I happen to read something here. If I do, and if I have a comment about what I’ve read, I post it. I wouldn’t say that “we should all” do anything. This is a discussion forum. I would expect people to post whatever thoughts they wish, within the bounds of GS rules. Most people haven’t criticized them. I don’t stand behind them. Neither do I stand in opposition to them. The most I’ll do that will have anything to do with them will be to occasionally post a few thoughts on threads other people start.Link to comment
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oldiesman
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rascal
Well as a giver of some of the *green stuff* that twi accrued, I`d have to say that I would prefer for ANYBODY else to have it and utilize it than twi.
I doubt that the peelers or their attornies could misspend it anymore spectacularly than twi does/did.
It isn`t their money that the peelers stand to gain anyway, no more than the campuses that they sold off or any of the assets. It is ours, the folks whom they took the money and labor from all of these years.
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Ham
Yep. Supposed to be resources for "God's people".
Not a generous retirement package for a small group of numbnuts in podunk ohio.
It makes me even wonder if the bast***s are even really "born again". Just a thought..
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rascal
Well I think of the vacations they enjoyed, the best quality of food and *toys*
I know that twi financed an abortion or two.
How many millions have been lost in settled lawsuits and attornies fees protecting craigs fanny....all REAL Godly uses for that money extorted from us in his name.
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oldiesman
LearnedTooLate, this is a reason why I'm against the Peelers lawsuit, as I do not agree with their premise as touching "us". That's a conclusion that's very very hard to prove. If the Peelers can prove in open court that THEIR OWN hearts and lives were destroyed by TWI who "CLAIMED" to THEM to teach THEM about God and his love for THEM, but who were only taking advantage of THEM, then more power to them. I doubt they can prove that but I wasn't there to witness their involvement in TWI or how they may have been "abused".
But I do know that they can't prove abuse touching MY involvement, and I'm guessing, many folks' involvement. I won't speak for others although I know of few who were not abused and they'd say so.
That's one of the problems with the whole case, this idea of some collective abuse, like we were all victims because of our involvement. The Peeler's don't speak for everyone, and should stop trying to suggest that we were abused "as a group".
I'm sure twi, if need be, could bring forth more than enough witnesses who will rebut the claim of some massive, community abuse.
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oldiesman
Their claim sort of reminds me of something that might be similar to a cigarette smoker who smoked for years, who then had developed massive health problems, and the courts ruling that the massive health problems were caused by involuntary smoking and the smoker gets a huge award for smoking for years.
They'd first need to prove that the smoking was not voluntary. Very very hard to prove.
Next they'd have to prove damages. That their smoking was the cause of their massive illnesses.
How were the Peeler's involvement involuntary?
And what specifically are the Peeler's abuses/damages? Anything ongoing? Anything terminal?
They have to prove these things to some pretty smart folks. My guess is, they can't.
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Belle
Didn't some guy in a wheelchair successfully sue the TWIts because they promised he would be healed if he gave enough dough to them?
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LearnedTooLate
LongGone,
The Peeler's ARE speaking for themselves and attempting to show that TWI failed in their fiduciary responsibility to "the Peeler's"...Not "us".
This discussion would be a whole lot easier if you'd quit taking my opinions and thoughts and attributing them to the Peeler's lawsuit. I am using "us" in an attempt to clarify just what it is they are suing about. Sorry to confuse you, but then I'll bet you are trying to be confused just to have something to argue and be a sourpuss about.
There is nothing, to my knowledge (and my knowledge is very limited, I don't think I've even read the lawsuit) that says the Peeler's are suing TWI for any "collective abuse". It is an individual case from and about them.
When speaking with Ron, and his attorney, (ah, Lawrence Levy! THAT'S his name. Slow memory!) I got the distinct impression that they wanted this case to possibly lay the ground work for future claims/lawsuits by making public the depositions and court records after it was done. Yes, they could change their mind and settle. That's their deal. And I wouldn't blame them one bit, especially since some people are so freaking ungrateful for any little headway we make against TWI. Good God, the Allen's poured blood into THEIR lawsuit (as I'm sure the Peeler's are) and it's easy to see how they got tired of it all and decided to walk away with the cash. I hope they are enjoying it in grand fashion!
It is my hope that the Peeler's are able to hold out and stand strong until the end so more of TWI's lies and atrocities are exposed. But if they decide not to then I'll sure be thankful for how hard they worked for what they attempted because it means TWI WASTED their money fighting this and WASTED their time and attention that they might have used otherwise hurting other innocent God-seeking people.
The Peeler's (and the Allen's) are already victorious in that they have brought A LOT of attention to 'supposed' wrong doings of TWI and that's making many people take notice. Good for them!
So, to the Peeler's, Allen's & anyone else who has ever stood against TWI and said, "Hey, wait a minute there..." YAHOO to you all and thanks a bunch! I sure appreciate it. I'll betcha many others do, too. Except for LongGone. He's taking sourpuss pills regularly and can't seem to see the good in the situation.
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oldiesman
I think they settled the case and it didn't go to court. This was written about in "The Cult That Snapped."
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Ham
Yep.. folks I heard talking said the guy who sued the tobacco conglomerates didn't have a leg to stand on either..
I wonder how far the damages can be assessed. Seems if there is some kind of conspiracy proven, no amount of corporate protection would stand between the Peelers and any assests any of those numbnuts have hid anywhere, private or not.
"poor" old Rosie and Donna probably have to go out in the real world, "borrow" a couple of shopping carts and "work" the dumpsters..
I don't think they'd find very many wayfers willing to support them.
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Ham
WAYGB- If I was you, I'd start circulating a few resumes- don't know how well "worked twenty-five years in a stinking cult for two dollars an hour" is gonna read with a prospective employer though.
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rascal
Yup, and I would imagine that there will come a day when they will have to answere for what they have done...and the excuse that *I was just doing my job* is not going to cut em any slack.
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Ham
Yep. Thing I don't understand, why stay in that cesspool? Holy cow.. despite my sarcasm, I'd be willing to lend a hand, or at least point you in the right direction. Do SOMETHING- if not for your own stinking hide, think about your FAMILY.
Think the Peeler's don't stand a chance? Go ahead- gamble all you want- its not MY life.
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oldiesman
I have a better idea. Why don't some of you folks join in the Peeler lawsuit?
How about contributing some money to the cause, as a silent, or not-so-silent, partner?
I mean, why should only the Peelers bear all of the financial burden for this noble cause?
Hmmmmmmmmmmm?
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sharon
Oldsie,
Do u think it was G-dly for the TWI to promise that man in the wheelchair that he would walk again if he bought leadership a snappy new BMW?
And before you say it yes they did admit guilt,
if they where innocent would they have settled? Doubt it!!! As a matter of a fact another question why don't TWI/BOT, file a counter claim for slander. (Which if all of these suits were as frivolous as u seem to feel they would win).
I don't know the Peeler's or the Allen's never met them once, don't need to, I full heartly believe in the system, and I question why TWI settles with everyone? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...
If they are beyond reproach, have them open their books get a forensic account to go thru it, hell make it a condition of the law suit that if they are found to be innocent (ok, i'm laughing 2)the Peeler's or whomever is responsible for their cost. I feel this is fair.
On another note do u try to be as offensive as u are? Cause if u do hats off! You have never address the points,
1. The way international has promised to heal people for $$, and not come thru.
2. Maybe, when u where there this wasn't the case but when I was in TWI, (84-95) it was the norm, to be pressued to give more "abundantly"
and if u did not you dissapointed TMOGFOT, and who would want that. Oh, and if u want me to believe that these things never happened to u, then I demand the same in return.
3. If u did not do what TWI wanted they would hold above your head the threat of being "M&A", and if u were m&a, you stood to lose a lot, again if this didn't happen while you where in TWI I'm glad, but it did while I was there.
Now notice Oldsie I only used singular pronouns, and asked you direct questions,
my last one being...
I want to know if YOU BELIEVE that it was moraly correct on any level for TWI, to tell someone how to run their personal finances?
And again was it G-dly in any way shape or form for someone in leadership to promise a man in a wheelchair, that if he gave them money and gifts, G-d would heal him?
PLEASE ANSWER.
so you don't think I am afraid to put my name on this.
Sharon Langer Mercado Lustig.(every name I've ever had, although u question that)
ps. the dancing money is offensive at best insulting to me.
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sharon
Sorry, I'm not done.
You know oldsie, you are being mean. no other word but mean.
You expect everyone to believe that your time spent in the Way was filled with wine and roses. Fair enough I don't know you, I believe you, why would you waste your energy and your time bs. the collective forum post.
So therefore you should in fact give other people that same respect. Not only that but, YOU are in the minority, not to say that I don't have some (1/2) good as a matter of fact very good memories of my time in TWI. I posted on an earlier forum, how much one of Mich**l F*rts teachings ment to me. I love some of the people who are still in. I love more who got out.
In case you haven't heard, at a very low point in my life I decided to take the PFAL class again, to renew my mind on G-d's word. I spoke with HQ., because I was not sure of my status as my then husband family had just been austed.
Got permission to take class, and joined with a glad heart. Because I am who I am I made cookies, (I was VERY pregnant at the time), peanut butter and chocolate chip cookies, and I took them...
Got there and these fools running the class told me that my friggin cookies where a distraction to the new students, that I was taking the focus off of G-d's word and putting it on wordly needs. What a crock of ....!!!
I do not give a rat's tookes wether u believe me or not, but if everything was as wonderful as you would like ME to believe I guess the obvious question is WHY DID U LEAVE?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Or perhaps did i find something else to agree with TWI, that u are mean.
Don't worry, you can change you can be healed, you can get those self loving devil spirits out of you, me I'm keeping mine! I'm making cookies, and if anyone wants one they know my name.
again for the record:
Sharon Langer Mercado Lustig
(oh yea checked with ex-husband, who was holding said cookies and that is exactly, what was said when I gave the woman the cookies.
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Steve!
Sharon -
Phil (oldiesman) has said on more than one occasion that he *would* return to TWI if there were a twig within convenient distance of him.
He is more pro-TWI than half the innies out there, and that's saying something.
He sings only 2 songs - one of them is "my time with TWI was all sun and roses", and the other is "you women always claim to be the victims".
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oldiesman
Hi Sharon, my my aren't we perturbed today?
I don't know all the reasons why TWI has settled some claims out of court. It all depends on the complaint but I guess it's because they see it as more costly for them, both in perception and finances, if there were a trial than not. But twi settling a case doesn't mean they couldn't win, or that the ones suing have a great case. TWI most likely settles because of what they are afraid of losing.
What dancing money are you talking about?
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LG
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oldiesman
Steve!, just so there are no misunderstandings and false impressions repeatedly asserted:
1) I said that if someone invited me back to a fellowship, I would go and check it out. I didn't say I would remain or be a regular, and if you recall, I said if I attended a fellowship, I wouldn't give a dime. Remember that, Steve!?
2) I am pro-twi-1. that covers my experience with TWI-1. I am NOT pro-twi-2. Although I will say that in some cases, I take their side because of the obnoxious and unrelenting attacks against them.
3) My time with twi-1 wasn't all sun and roses, so you misrepresent what I've said. And regarding the women being victims, some of them were, some of them weren't. And that's really old stuff, we haven't discussed that stuff in probably over a year yet you're still thinking about those really old posts.
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Steve!
In the interest of returning this thread to its original purpose -
Okay, fine, whatever, I misrepresented you.
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sharon
Oldsie,
Notice something...u still have not answered my very simple very direct questions.
I wonder why?
sfl
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oldiesman
Sharon I bet you make great cookies and I would have been blessed to have some. They were off the wall to refuse them.
You ask some good questions and I don't have answers to them. But I'd love some cookies. mmmmmmm
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