To anyone and everyone who feels the need to run to Paw and/or Pam or to push the yellow triangle button with any frequency at all,...I have to ask...Why? I really, really, really don't get it. If I were Paw and Pam I'd be pulling my hair out by this time.
Zix, you really, truly hit the button because Rocky posted in the wrong forum? Oh, wait, you say you did it because you figured out he was trying to circumvent the Rules? Well, good greasy grief, Paw made the rules, and I think he's quite capable of deciding when it's time to enforce them.
And Rocky, a "stalker"? C'mon, now. The so-called "stalker" lives about 2,500 miles from you. Internet "stalking" is the easiest kind to stop. Hit scroll. Turn off the machine. Take a walk. Smell a flower. Ignore the person who's a thorn in your side.
My idea of the alert button is that it's there so we point out something really offensive, in case the busy admin/moderators might have missed it. It's not the switch on a freekin' tattle-tale machine.
Linda: Yes, Paw can decide when to enforce the rules very well, and often does. All "reporting" does is alert the moderators that something's amiss.
Contrary to popular belief, Pawtucket doesn't read every single post, and he's certainly not on here 24 hours a day. Here's another news flash--Paw ignores most of the "reports" (including the majority of mine) because they aren't worth fooling with.
He could have just as easily ignored mine this morning. He doesn't particularly listen to me over anyone else--surprise! In this case, however, it appears that he agreed with me, moved it to the proper forum, and restored Rocky's right to post there.
AND THAT'S WHERE IT WOULD HAVE ENDED.
But, no! Rocky just had to start screeching "arbitrary and capricious", playing his poor, persecuted martyr for his "truth" card again, accusing Pawtucket (and me) yet AGAIN for his own jollies. So, here we are with yet another nasty thread, and, yet again, Rocky has managed to suck in a few do-good enablers to stick up for him so he once again doesn't have to take the blame for being a spoiled child who throws a hissy fit at whoever doesn't let him run things.
Rocky did not know he could participate in pol-lite when his thread was moved there.
Previously, he was restricted from there.
I read his question and some of the understandable stress it may have created as a reasonable deduction to his thread disappearing...to nowhere
(at the time)
since he didn't know his restriction to one area was lifted...
and his thread was put in pol-lite where he was, up till the hour he addressed it, restricted.
How would he be able to participate with others on this thread, especially from any secured area on GS where he was previously denied access?
How could he even tell where it went if he wasn't able to see it?
Where it went, he isn't allowed, or wasn't till after the fact.
Thankfully, the Adm. thought this out and gave him the privilige to access a political forum to continue hanging out ~ engaging people here as he has done for years.
Since he was restricted from accessing that forum for a time...there might be some feelings about it...and that's understandable, as well.
Zix,
I have clashes with a few here, and have also had them with you from time to time as well, and what I have found to be the better intention is to seek out a decent-enough civil manner while manuevering around this site (and not give those that favor a fray, the display of fighting, a show at my or anothers expense)
...and knowing my responses are 'my problem' and anothers 'theirs'
...I either don't read them or choose to think better about those 'people' (in regards to; I will respect these differences in the fashion of tolerence when I can) if I care enough ~ where hopefully, I can genuinely wish well instead of harm.
... anyway...for a brief time, it appears he did have good reason to question what happened to his thread, and why it was removed to where he thought he couldn't post or even see it or engage with others...
No one here is perfect, and perhaps the poster could have been clued in first.
I know that's not the way things always work out around here...but it could be a good usage of information if more in the practice of prohibiting people from such and thus will become a useful tool around here or whatever they call it.
Back to problems with disagrements ~ oh, I mean jumping into problems like that ~
Someone may want to ridicule and attack one's credibility as a person when a difference appears that triggers certain responses inside us ~ while others might want to try and understand what just happened and move on.
One good thing to know is that 'other' people reading along will perceive for themselves what 'is going on'.
It's not always the same thoughts the ones who are involved with an issue have either.
When we have our wits about us, and are feeling ok, in general, we personalize ALOT less.
With you Zix, I prefer or can choose to think positively about you on the board ~ and if I won't do this ~ I don't read your posts. At least, I try. Sorta a promise, huh? But to myself. Wish we practiced more of it here.
It's hard if one is too close to the flame though...in many ways.
Just a heads-up insight but you don't have to listen to me at all either.
I do think Rocky had a valid concern about his thread. From his perspective, I think we all would have wondered 'how' or 'what' can we do next here.
And in his case, not just do next...but what's next for him and others) down the line when the opposition won't change as readily either.
A little empathy can show alot of information about another persons experience.
~
Good luck on your getting a call back (fr the show)...I do hope you will be contacted as this newer take on a good show hits the top ten ~
Ginger: A concern about where the post went is perfectly reasonable. Bashing pawtucket publicly as if it were some grave social injustice is not. If I showed half the cowardice Rocky claims, I would have let Paw take the rap and said nothing. Paw probably would have done it anyway had he read the thread before I. [shrug] Who knows?
Even though the flap seems to have been settled, in that now Rocky can access his Goldwater thread where it got moved, you'd think that Rocky would at least apologize to Paw for flying off the handle. I'm not naive enough to expect one to me, but you'd think that someone who clamors for civility as much as he does would at least show some when it's clear he's made a fool of himself in public. But, as has happened on two other occasions, someone pipes up trying to equalize the blame, and Rocky skips off feeling completely justified in his tantrum.
It's quite disturbing that this trend continues. It almost seems as if, when someone is condemning Hitler, that these "it's all good" types would chime in with "Well, Hitler was naughty, but the Jews were just asking for it." Simply astounding.
I can't force people to read what I write without filtering it through their own feelings towards me, and no one else can, either. I would just hope that anyone who actually read what I wrote would try to do so objectively before jumping on my case. (Not that you were in this case, Ginger. Just people in general.)
BTW, thanks for your kind words about the Millionaire thing.
It's quite disturbing that this trend continues. It almost seems as if, when someone is condemning Hitler, that these "it's all good" types would chime in with "Well, Hitler was naughty, but the Jews were just asking for it." Simply astounding.
In comparing Rocky to Hitler, you have invoked Godwin's Law, so this conversation has been killed. You should know better than that.
I really hate that; "Oh, both sides made mistakes, so therefore no one was really at fault" argument. I hear that crapola from school teachers where our kids go all of the time. but hey, "It's all good......" (gagmee)
If you tell us will you have to break our glasses?
Here is something of an answer, although it directly answers none of your questions. This is also a G**k thing, as in the computer industry it is against the rules to give direct answers.
quote:
Godwin's Lawprov. (Usenet) "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups. However there is also a widely- recognized codicil that any intentional triggering of Godwin's Law in order to invoke its thread-ending effects will be unsuccessful.
I really hate that; "Oh, both sides made mistakes, so therefore no one was really at fault" argument. I hear that crapola from school teachers where our kids go all of the time. but hey, "It's all good......" (gagmee)
In this case though, it was true. QQ and Rocky were constantly at each others' throats (sometimes others such as myself, Zixar, hillsbro, etc are involved as well) and it would spill over into other forums. The arguing has gone on to the point where pretty much everyone involved at some point has done or said something wrong. I wouldn't specifically blame an individual because we all control our own mouths and fingers and what we say. Still, the fighting and arguing went on until QQ seems to have gotten bored of this site or something, leaving Rocky still ....ed off.
As far as Rocky's complaints go, I do think he may have taken it too far, but at the same time he had a good point when he first posted it because his thread was moved to a place where he couldn't see it at that moment, and I think he had a good point in his complaints about Zixar as well for taddling, in light of many other threads in the Open forum that belong in politics, doctrinal, etc.
I would say that I mostly agree with Rocky, except that he has stated his complaints in such a way that it rubs others wrong and frustrates people. It could just be his writing style and if the same conversations were had in real life people would not get upset at him.
In any case, this has become a big thread of whining, and I don't think I want to write another post about it. I'll happilly discuss Godwin's law and make jokes and such, but I don't want to contribute further to the negative stuff.
P-Mosh: As I've said before, it wasn't a case of "taddling[sic]" anything. Paw is under zero obligation to do anything about any reported post, and if he had thought it appropriate to leave the Goldwater thread in the Open forum, I could have screamed at him until I was blue in the keyboard and it would have done no good. I know from a previous unrelated incident this to be the case in fact.
And it's not just an ideological difference, I think you must be aware of that. If that were the motivation, I'd have been pestering Paw about you more than him! :)--> The difference is that while you and I are complete polar opposites in our political views, and ne'er the twain shall meet, you don't pull the ideological baggage into outside discussions. For what it's worth, I find you to be a rather genial fellow when we're not talking about politics, and it seems we share quite a few common interests otherwise. So, as long as you keep your Bush-hatred the same forum I keep my pro-Israel leanings, the rest of the site need never know how bad we go at each other in there, unless they go there by choice.
So much of Rocky's vendetta against the "evil ones" exists where no one else can see it--between his ears. That just makes the bits that spill over here all the more indecipherable. Having it go on in less-traveled forums is one thing. Trotting it out in the Open forum is downright disrespectful of the whole site.
again, if I engage in any rebuttals, I must be doing the same thing as the one who apparently is so obsessed about me.
again, I get it. I have no right to complain about this person's harassment targeting me, but he has a right to say all the bad things about me he wants.
it does appear that simple.
Telling the truth carries risk. I accept that risk.
No my dear, it wasn't the one armed man, for it was the Butler who did it!
To you all-
Yeah, I have seen the ugliness at times, and as you know, I have gotten into it a time or two. But I usually walk away or come back later as.....Someone Else...
I got really mad once when I was "Buck", and in a thread about VPW, someone said that they hoped that "Vee Pee was roasting like a spitted pig with his guts hanging out over the coals of hellfire" or something close to that, and a whole lot of the other posters jumped on the bandwagon and cheered that sentiment. So, when I read it I was so sickened, I just left the Grease Spot for about five or six months and came back as me, Jonny Lingo.
And ya know, we can all probably agree that our time spent here probably does detract somewhat from our daily lives and things that "we ought to be doing". I call it a "time stealer sometimes". But you get hooked on it, ya know? It's like; "I just made a post that disagrees with Rocky's theology or politics, so I just gotta go back and see what he or anyone else said. Did he agree with my "logic"? Did anybody else agree with my sterling "insight? My intellect?" Haw haw..
And when that happens, it's hard to stay away. I would think that it should be easier for us to walk away since we are mostly anonymous to eachother, but it is still hard, isn't it? I think we are all a bit too vain at times, and here our vanity gets in the way too much. And I mean no disrespect to anyone by saying that, I am just talking about human nature is all.
Anyway, it's a gorgeous day here in Haines, Alaska. The sun is shining bright and the crystal snow on the peaks is blinding. I'm out here and am going to go and split up some more firewood....Peace to you all! :)-->
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Linda Z
To anyone and everyone who feels the need to run to Paw and/or Pam or to push the yellow triangle button with any frequency at all,...I have to ask...Why? I really, really, really don't get it. If I were Paw and Pam I'd be pulling my hair out by this time.
Zix, you really, truly hit the button because Rocky posted in the wrong forum? Oh, wait, you say you did it because you figured out he was trying to circumvent the Rules? Well, good greasy grief, Paw made the rules, and I think he's quite capable of deciding when it's time to enforce them.
And Rocky, a "stalker"? C'mon, now. The so-called "stalker" lives about 2,500 miles from you. Internet "stalking" is the easiest kind to stop. Hit scroll. Turn off the machine. Take a walk. Smell a flower. Ignore the person who's a thorn in your side.
My idea of the alert button is that it's there so we point out something really offensive, in case the busy admin/moderators might have missed it. It's not the switch on a freekin' tattle-tale machine.
Linda Z
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Zixar
Linda: Yes, Paw can decide when to enforce the rules very well, and often does. All "reporting" does is alert the moderators that something's amiss.
Contrary to popular belief, Pawtucket doesn't read every single post, and he's certainly not on here 24 hours a day. Here's another news flash--Paw ignores most of the "reports" (including the majority of mine) because they aren't worth fooling with.
He could have just as easily ignored mine this morning. He doesn't particularly listen to me over anyone else--surprise! In this case, however, it appears that he agreed with me, moved it to the proper forum, and restored Rocky's right to post there.
AND THAT'S WHERE IT WOULD HAVE ENDED.
But, no! Rocky just had to start screeching "arbitrary and capricious", playing his poor, persecuted martyr for his "truth" card again, accusing Pawtucket (and me) yet AGAIN for his own jollies. So, here we are with yet another nasty thread, and, yet again, Rocky has managed to suck in a few do-good enablers to stick up for him so he once again doesn't have to take the blame for being a spoiled child who throws a hissy fit at whoever doesn't let him run things.
Yeah, I'M the bad guy here.
--> Thanks a lot.
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jezusfreaky
Ummmmmmmmmmmmm....fellas????
Shouldn't this be moved to the ''Soap Opera'' forum???
:D--> 
--> 
:P-->
Sometimes it's fun playing debil's advocate!
;)-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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Ginger Tea
Rocky did not know he could participate in pol-lite when his thread was moved there.
Previously, he was restricted from there.
I read his question and some of the understandable stress it may have created as a reasonable deduction to his thread disappearing...to nowhere
(at the time)
since he didn't know his restriction to one area was lifted...
and his thread was put in pol-lite where he was, up till the hour he addressed it, restricted.
How would he be able to participate with others on this thread, especially from any secured area on GS where he was previously denied access?
How could he even tell where it went if he wasn't able to see it?
Where it went, he isn't allowed, or wasn't till after the fact.
Thankfully, the Adm. thought this out and gave him the privilige to access a political forum to continue hanging out ~ engaging people here as he has done for years.
Since he was restricted from accessing that forum for a time...there might be some feelings about it...and that's understandable, as well.
Zix,
I have clashes with a few here, and have also had them with you from time to time as well, and what I have found to be the better intention is to seek out a decent-enough civil manner while manuevering around this site (and not give those that favor a fray, the display of fighting, a show at my or anothers expense)
...and knowing my responses are 'my problem' and anothers 'theirs'
...I either don't read them or choose to think better about those 'people' (in regards to; I will respect these differences in the fashion of tolerence when I can) if I care enough ~ where hopefully, I can genuinely wish well instead of harm.
... anyway...for a brief time, it appears he did have good reason to question what happened to his thread, and why it was removed to where he thought he couldn't post or even see it or engage with others...
No one here is perfect, and perhaps the poster could have been clued in first.
I know that's not the way things always work out around here...but it could be a good usage of information if more in the practice of prohibiting people from such and thus will become a useful tool around here or whatever they call it.
Back to problems with disagrements ~ oh, I mean jumping into problems like that ~
Someone may want to ridicule and attack one's credibility as a person when a difference appears that triggers certain responses inside us ~ while others might want to try and understand what just happened and move on.
One good thing to know is that 'other' people reading along will perceive for themselves what 'is going on'.
It's not always the same thoughts the ones who are involved with an issue have either.
When we have our wits about us, and are feeling ok, in general, we personalize ALOT less.
With you Zix, I prefer or can choose to think positively about you on the board ~ and if I won't do this ~ I don't read your posts. At least, I try. Sorta a promise, huh? But to myself. Wish we practiced more of it here.
It's hard if one is too close to the flame though...in many ways.
Just a heads-up insight but you don't have to listen to me at all either.
I do think Rocky had a valid concern about his thread. From his perspective, I think we all would have wondered 'how' or 'what' can we do next here.
And in his case, not just do next...but what's next for him and others) down the line when the opposition won't change as readily either.
A little empathy can show alot of information about another persons experience.
~
Good luck on your getting a call back (fr the show)...I do hope you will be contacted as this newer take on a good show hits the top ten ~
Ginger
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Ginger Tea
bringing this to the 'top'
sigh
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Zixar
Ginger: A concern about where the post went is perfectly reasonable. Bashing pawtucket publicly as if it were some grave social injustice is not. If I showed half the cowardice Rocky claims, I would have let Paw take the rap and said nothing. Paw probably would have done it anyway had he read the thread before I. [shrug] Who knows?
Even though the flap seems to have been settled, in that now Rocky can access his Goldwater thread where it got moved, you'd think that Rocky would at least apologize to Paw for flying off the handle. I'm not naive enough to expect one to me, but you'd think that someone who clamors for civility as much as he does would at least show some when it's clear he's made a fool of himself in public. But, as has happened on two other occasions, someone pipes up trying to equalize the blame, and Rocky skips off feeling completely justified in his tantrum.
It's quite disturbing that this trend continues. It almost seems as if, when someone is condemning Hitler, that these "it's all good" types would chime in with "Well, Hitler was naughty, but the Jews were just asking for it." Simply astounding.
I can't force people to read what I write without filtering it through their own feelings towards me, and no one else can, either. I would just hope that anyone who actually read what I wrote would try to do so objectively before jumping on my case. (Not that you were in this case, Ginger. Just people in general.)
BTW, thanks for your kind words about the Millionaire thing.
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Mister P-Mosh
In comparing Rocky to Hitler, you have invoked Godwin's Law, so this conversation has been killed. You should know better than that.
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Zixar
P-Mosh: There is some debate as to whether the ancient Usenet laws spill over into web-based forum etiquette...
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Tom Strange
who is Godwin?
and where is this Usenet?
Are these things only the Geeks know about?
If you tell us will you have to break our glasses?
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Zixar
Tom: I could tell you, but then I'd have to spam you...
:D-->
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah Zix,
I really hate that; "Oh, both sides made mistakes, so therefore no one was really at fault" argument. I hear that crapola from school teachers where our kids go all of the time. but hey, "It's all good......" (gagmee)
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Mister P-Mosh
Here is something of an answer, although it directly answers none of your questions. This is also a G**k thing, as in the computer industry it is against the rules to give direct answers.
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Tom Strange
All right then...
6er! come here! You have lost the argument. The thread is over. Thus sayeth Godwin's Law!
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Zixar
Tom: You'd better re-parse that codicil...
;)-->
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Mister P-Mosh
In this case though, it was true. QQ and Rocky were constantly at each others' throats (sometimes others such as myself, Zixar, hillsbro, etc are involved as well) and it would spill over into other forums. The arguing has gone on to the point where pretty much everyone involved at some point has done or said something wrong. I wouldn't specifically blame an individual because we all control our own mouths and fingers and what we say. Still, the fighting and arguing went on until QQ seems to have gotten bored of this site or something, leaving Rocky still ....ed off.
As far as Rocky's complaints go, I do think he may have taken it too far, but at the same time he had a good point when he first posted it because his thread was moved to a place where he couldn't see it at that moment, and I think he had a good point in his complaints about Zixar as well for taddling, in light of many other threads in the Open forum that belong in politics, doctrinal, etc.
I would say that I mostly agree with Rocky, except that he has stated his complaints in such a way that it rubs others wrong and frustrates people. It could just be his writing style and if the same conversations were had in real life people would not get upset at him.
In any case, this has become a big thread of whining, and I don't think I want to write another post about it. I'll happilly discuss Godwin's law and make jokes and such, but I don't want to contribute further to the negative stuff.
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Zixar
P-Mosh: As I've said before, it wasn't a case of "taddling[sic]" anything. Paw is under zero obligation to do anything about any reported post, and if he had thought it appropriate to leave the Goldwater thread in the Open forum, I could have screamed at him until I was blue in the keyboard and it would have done no good. I know from a previous unrelated incident this to be the case in fact.
And it's not just an ideological difference, I think you must be aware of that. If that were the motivation, I'd have been pestering Paw about you more than him!
:)--> The difference is that while you and I are complete polar opposites in our political views, and ne'er the twain shall meet, you don't pull the ideological baggage into outside discussions. For what it's worth, I find you to be a rather genial fellow when we're not talking about politics, and it seems we share quite a few common interests otherwise. So, as long as you keep your Bush-hatred the same forum I keep my pro-Israel leanings, the rest of the site need never know how bad we go at each other in there, unless they go there by choice.
So much of Rocky's vendetta against the "evil ones" exists where no one else can see it--between his ears. That just makes the bits that spill over here all the more indecipherable. Having it go on in less-traveled forums is one thing. Trotting it out in the Open forum is downright disrespectful of the whole site.
That's how I see it, at any rate.
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jezusfreaky
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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Rocky
again, if I engage in any rebuttals, I must be doing the same thing as the one who apparently is so obsessed about me.
again, I get it. I have no right to complain about this person's harassment targeting me, but he has a right to say all the bad things about me he wants.
it does appear that simple.
Telling the truth carries risk. I accept that risk.
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Tom Strange
hey guys!
Thread Over!
(besides, it was found right?)
Godwin's Law!
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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jezusfreaky
Ohhhhhhhhh GOODIE!!!!!!
Does that mean we can go out for recess, Mr. Strange?????
:D--> 
:P-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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J0nny Ling0
JZFKY-
No my dear, it wasn't the one armed man, for it was the Butler who did it!
To you all-
Yeah, I have seen the ugliness at times, and as you know, I have gotten into it a time or two. But I usually walk away or come back later as.....Someone Else...
I got really mad once when I was "Buck", and in a thread about VPW, someone said that they hoped that "Vee Pee was roasting like a spitted pig with his guts hanging out over the coals of hellfire" or something close to that, and a whole lot of the other posters jumped on the bandwagon and cheered that sentiment. So, when I read it I was so sickened, I just left the Grease Spot for about five or six months and came back as me, Jonny Lingo.
And ya know, we can all probably agree that our time spent here probably does detract somewhat from our daily lives and things that "we ought to be doing". I call it a "time stealer sometimes". But you get hooked on it, ya know? It's like; "I just made a post that disagrees with Rocky's theology or politics, so I just gotta go back and see what he or anyone else said. Did he agree with my "logic"? Did anybody else agree with my sterling "insight? My intellect?" Haw haw..
And when that happens, it's hard to stay away. I would think that it should be easier for us to walk away since we are mostly anonymous to eachother, but it is still hard, isn't it? I think we are all a bit too vain at times, and here our vanity gets in the way too much. And I mean no disrespect to anyone by saying that, I am just talking about human nature is all.
Anyway, it's a gorgeous day here in Haines, Alaska. The sun is shining bright and the crystal snow on the peaks is blinding. I'm out here and am going to go and split up some more firewood....Peace to you all!
:)-->
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Tom Strange
It sure keeps me from getting a lot of work done some days...
I'm on the outside, looking inside, what do I see? Much confusion, disillusion, all around me.
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Zixar
Well, I'm off to Florida for the weekend anyway, so you can have it all to yourselves.
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jezusfreaky
DAMN!!!!! I guess I'll just have to watch Springer reruns for my dose of drama this weekend! Geeze, thanks alot Zix!
;)-->
Soooooooo, Mr. Strange, is it recess yet?????
:D-->
Peace and Love.
Love y'all,
-Colleen
GO VOLS!!
''...show a little faith, there's magic in the night, you ain't a beauty, but hey, you're alright, oh, and that's alright with me...''
-Bruce Springsteen
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