You wrote: “I certainly do not have a problem with you having a "belief system" that is absolute for you.”
I cracked up when I read this. You don’t seem to realize that if a system is absolute only “for me” then it’s NOT ABSOLUTE at all. You are lost in the mumbo jumbo of new age psychobabble. What I mean, and stated, by an absolute system is that it’s absolute FOR EVERYONE.
If I were to be convinced that PFAL is only true FOR ME, then I’m ready to check out. This isn’t going to happen, because I put enough time and effort into thoroughly examining PFAL and many alternatives. I’m sure it’s the truth for everyone, and anyone who rejects it is rejecting God and is dead wrong.
I know this stand is detestable in the modern world.
I believe that God’s Word is truth even if NOBODY believes it. Sound familiar.
Isn't it amazing how so many of posers here will slam Dr, and then turn right around and talk of the deceased Ken Barden, or Donnie Fugit, or others like them, as a wonderful men of God who really walked with God, yet completely deny that it was Dr who led them into that lifestyle of love by way of PFAL. I sense a profound degree of denial here.
They only do this with the dead, because anyone alive like them would point right back to the Word they learned PFAL as the what gave them such greatness.
It's one thing to stand firm on your faith and take the consequenses of believing a certain way (as did Stephen. for example), it's quite another to want to stick with a system even after you know it's wrong, or to want to die if you find that your belief is false.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
I told someone on the phone the other day that if PFAL is wrong I WANT to die. Maybe I'd drop acid and go sky diving without a parachute if I knew for sure it was wrong, just to go out with a bang.
I think you're being a bit humorous, but I'm totally serious.
Just in case you'd planned on going back and editing it.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Give me a break! I only edit to clarify or correct, not to cover my a-s-s.
I see your point, though. I did go a step farther.
The reason for that is the very long and active shopping project I did. It was 27 years after I took the class, but befor that I spent some several years with Eastern religions, and before that I did the RC thing up bigtime. There were 11 years where I went to confession every Saturday in a row, and a few Wendesday “emergency” sessions to boot.
From MY perspective, if my shopping project didn’t get me to the True God then life is a joke.
I did say that I’d do some spectacularly fun things before check out time. This would be the equivalent of “Eat, drink, and be merry for TOMORROW we die” which Paul quoted in I Cor 15 from the Epicureans.
So, I combined “I’m willing to go down with the ship” with that even more well known saying.
I still think we all do this. I was a bit intense in the way I said it. It was a figure of speech to get your attention. It worked.
quote: Also, have you done an exhaustive search of all the appearances of this topic in Dr's writings to us?
As I skim over this topic, this just caught my eye. It sounds as if it should be "Saint" Dr.
IMHO and as a writter, if someone takes my writtings word-for-word and publishes them as his own without any notice that the "quote" is from my writtings, then that is stealing. vpw's writtings were not "God Breathed". They are not included in the "word". They are his or (and as we know) many others opinions on what he believed or wanted us to believe. For someone who regarded precision in words as so important, he forgot to apply it to himself.
Give God the glory. Not man, men, but God. What we did learn in twi I, II, III or whatever was because of our Father who loved/loves us. Seperate good from evil: cling to the good, abhor the evil.
*******************************
PS: Hey Brady B. Do you remember me? I was in Miami LONG time ago.
quote:When you see Christ in his glory he will be holding a PFAL book in his hand and teaching you from it.
Mike, I did not realize that you had such a good sense of humor. In fact, I am beginning to think that you are even funnier than Wierwille himself in all his glaawry.
One problem with this scenario which another poster has already brought up though. Since Jesus gets left out of a lot of TWI teachings and especially religious productions, for example "Athletes of the Spirit". Jesus may not be in good standing with TWI. In that case TWI would refuse to sell Jesus a copy of the PFAL book or any other TWI publication and they certainly would not just give him one. In this case how could Jesus get a copy? Oh, wait a minute. I know now. Jesus could buy a copy on E-Bay before that blessed day.
Never mind.
God Bless you Mike. You're the Best. Hold it high.
quote: P.S. Oak, I have seen some of your belief system as you have posted it. I know you like beer.
And what is wrong with beer? Mike, you come off as a looking-down-my-nose-at-you-poor-jerks-who-do-not-follow-the-god-man-"DR".
And what if your shopping trip did not come up with "the truth"? If the truth did come "on sale" you would not buy it because you are too blinded by the truthyou think you have.
I told someone on the phone the other day that if PFAL is wrong I WANT to die. Maybe I'd drop acid and go sky diving without a parachute if I knew for sure it was wrong, just to go out with a bang.
I think you're being a bit humorous, but I'm totally serious.
.....
Any questions? -->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Mike, how will I know that it will be an authentic version of PFAL? I mean with so many copy cat versions out there. I would be afraid that Jesus might be carrying another, much more inferior of course, written work.
Furthermore, V.P. is not still here with us to sign it so as to verify it's authenticity. Did you remember to sign the copy in Wierwille's absence? If not could you please get your copy back from Jesus, sign it and then return it to him? Thanks Mike. I know I can count on you. You're the best.
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Mike
Oh Zixar. You're SO earnest!
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Mike
Doze,
You wrote: “I certainly do not have a problem with you having a "belief system" that is absolute for you.”
I cracked up when I read this. You don’t seem to realize that if a system is absolute only “for me” then it’s NOT ABSOLUTE at all. You are lost in the mumbo jumbo of new age psychobabble. What I mean, and stated, by an absolute system is that it’s absolute FOR EVERYONE.
If I were to be convinced that PFAL is only true FOR ME, then I’m ready to check out. This isn’t going to happen, because I put enough time and effort into thoroughly examining PFAL and many alternatives. I’m sure it’s the truth for everyone, and anyone who rejects it is rejecting God and is dead wrong.
I know this stand is detestable in the modern world.
I believe that God’s Word is truth even if NOBODY believes it. Sound familiar.
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Mike
Brady,
Forgive me! I've got Cant-Stop-Posting-itus.
It's not my fault! Everyone here is making me do it. THEY gave me this disease.
I think I need some higher power that's right for me and a 12-step program to get healed.
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Mike
Oldiesman and WhatTheHay,
Isn't it amazing how so many of posers here will slam Dr, and then turn right around and talk of the deceased Ken Barden, or Donnie Fugit, or others like them, as a wonderful men of God who really walked with God, yet completely deny that it was Dr who led them into that lifestyle of love by way of PFAL. I sense a profound degree of denial here.
They only do this with the dead, because anyone alive like them would point right back to the Word they learned PFAL as the what gave them such greatness.
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Oakspear
If PFAL is wrong, isn't the truth; you don't want to change, to adjust to what is the truth? You want to DIE instead?
You don't see anything wrong with that mindset?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
Oakspear,
It's the equivalent to "I'm willing to go down with the ship."
You are doing it too, but just not admitting it, with your belief system.
We all do it. There's no alternative.
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Oakspear
No Mike, I'm not.
Do you know what my "belief system" is?
It's one thing to stand firm on your faith and take the consequenses of believing a certain way (as did Stephen. for example), it's quite another to want to stick with a system even after you know it's wrong, or to want to die if you find that your belief is false.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Oakspear
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
Oakspear,
Give me a break! I only edit to clarify or correct, not to cover my a-s-s.
I see your point, though. I did go a step farther.
The reason for that is the very long and active shopping project I did. It was 27 years after I took the class, but befor that I spent some several years with Eastern religions, and before that I did the RC thing up bigtime. There were 11 years where I went to confession every Saturday in a row, and a few Wendesday “emergency” sessions to boot.
From MY perspective, if my shopping project didn’t get me to the True God then life is a joke.
I did say that I’d do some spectacularly fun things before check out time. This would be the equivalent of “Eat, drink, and be merry for TOMORROW we die” which Paul quoted in I Cor 15 from the Epicureans.
So, I combined “I’m willing to go down with the ship” with that even more well known saying.
I still think we all do this. I was a bit intense in the way I said it. It was a figure of speech to get your attention. It worked.
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Oakspear
Does backpedaling require a specially constructed bicycle?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
P.S. Oak, I have seen some of your belief system as you have posted it. I know you like beer.
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Steve!
Well, mike, I don't see how saying "I'm totally serious" allows you the wiggle room to call it a figure of speech.
Either you told the truth or you were lying.
If you told the truth about skydiving if PFAL were wrong, then you'd better find a tab of acid and book a flight.
If you were lying and calling it a "figure of speech", there's absolutely no way that we can trust a single word you've said.
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ladycat
MIKE wrote:
As I skim over this topic, this just caught my eye. It sounds as if it should be "Saint" Dr.
IMHO and as a writter, if someone takes my writtings word-for-word and publishes them as his own without any notice that the "quote" is from my writtings, then that is stealing. vpw's writtings were not "God Breathed". They are not included in the "word". They are his or (and as we know) many others opinions on what he believed or wanted us to believe. For someone who regarded precision in words as so important, he forgot to apply it to himself.
Give God the glory. Not man, men, but God. What we did learn in twi I, II, III or whatever was because of our Father who loved/loves us. Seperate good from evil: cling to the good, abhor the evil.
*******************************
PS: Hey Brady B. Do you remember me? I was in Miami LONG time ago.
~~Cat
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Mike
Oak,
I was pretty cognizant of what I was saying, but in the rush of posting, I admittedly didn't write down all the angles.
I want to thank you for helping me in getting it all posted, or at least a more full version of it.
And now for my next trick......
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Oakspear
We could have trusted him before he made that statement?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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Mike
Steve!,
Trust every word that comes out of the mouth of God. That's PFAL!
Trust in man (me, yourself, or any other) and you'll be very disappointed.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Mike says,
Mike, I did not realize that you had such a good sense of humor. In fact, I am beginning to think that you are even funnier than Wierwille himself in all his glaawry.
One problem with this scenario which another poster has already brought up though. Since Jesus gets left out of a lot of TWI teachings and especially religious productions, for example "Athletes of the Spirit". Jesus may not be in good standing with TWI. In that case TWI would refuse to sell Jesus a copy of the PFAL book or any other TWI publication and they certainly would not just give him one. In this case how could Jesus get a copy? Oh, wait a minute. I know now. Jesus could buy a copy on E-Bay before that blessed day.
Never mind.
God Bless you Mike. You're the Best. Hold it high.
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Mike
Mark,
I gave him a copy.
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ladycat
And what is wrong with beer? Mike, you come off as a looking-down-my-nose-at-you-poor-jerks-who-do-not-follow-the-god-man-"DR".
And what if your shopping trip did not come up with "the truth"? If the truth did come "on sale" you would not buy it because you are too blinded by the truthyou think you have.
~~Cat
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Mike
I like beer.
:)-->
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GarthP2000
This is your mind on Smikeol ...
.....
Any questions?
-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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Steve!
Oh, Mike, I see now where I went wrong, you've totally convinced me!
And of course, you dodge and evade.
Enjoy your flight.
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Mark Sanguinetti
Mike, how will I know that it will be an authentic version of PFAL? I mean with so many copy cat versions out there. I would be afraid that Jesus might be carrying another, much more inferior of course, written work.
Furthermore, V.P. is not still here with us to sign it so as to verify it's authenticity. Did you remember to sign the copy in Wierwille's absence? If not could you please get your copy back from Jesus, sign it and then return it to him? Thanks Mike. I know I can count on you. You're the best.
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Mike
Steve! and Garth,
Every now and then I seem to throw a bone to the dogs. Have at it!
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