I am merely trying to get you to think for yourself. A difficult job at times, but someone has to do it. It is however, not without its rewards. Sorry, but I do not have the time to look through your 1,957 and counting posts. Besides, your writing style is far from concise and can be seen as laborious.
Koestler was a sensationalist kook, and the fact that Mike (ADDED LATER: it wasn't Mike, my mistake. See below.--Zix) would quote from a book about Immanuel Velikovsky is just icing on the crazy cake.
From Skepdic.com:
quote:Immanuel Velikovsky's Worlds in Collision
Reading something they can understand, that seems to make sense, that presents itself as technically competent, non-scientists are easily gulled by fake science. --Henry H. Bauer
The less one knows about science, the more plausible Velikovsky's scenario appears.... --Leroy Ellenberger
Velikovsky was a psychologist who took it upon himself to draw wild conclusions about astronomy in his 1950 book Worlds In Collision. He theorized that Venus had actually been spun out of Jupiter a few thousand years ago, and that most of the miracles of the Old Testament (parting of the Red Sea, manna from heaven, etc.) could be traced to Venus flying by the Earth before settling into its current orbit. Any competent astronomer can tell you the myriad problems with Velikovsky's ridiculous claims, and Carl Sagan thoroughly debunked this idiot.
Read the following entry about a condition called apophenia:
Koestler, who wrote The Thirteenth Tribe was accused of anti-Semitism for that particular work. He basically contended that the Jews that are in Israel now, are not the Jews or, Judaens of the Bible. He contends that these present day Jews are really European Jews who descended from the Russian Steppes, a bunch known as the Khazars. Koestler contends that these Khazars, a wild and unruly bunch needed a national religion to keep them under control.
Therefore, the leaders of these Khazars sent to Israel (sometime in the middle ages) some emmissaries in order to import some Rabbis to come back and teach the Jewish religion to the people of "Khazaria". Once this was done, these people who had nothing to do with the bloodline of the Twelve Tribes, contends Koestler, became the "Thirteenth Tribe" and had nothing to do with the bloodline of the original Twelve Tribes.
Furthermore, these Jews now in the geographic location of Israel are in fact imposters according to Koestler.
It is an extensive bit of research, and was fairly dry and boring. But it did seem to have some substance, providing his bibliographical material was in fact true. But who knows? It was something that VPW told us to read for the sake of accurate history. BUt like I said, it was dry and boring, and I don't think I even finished it.
George: You can praise Google for that bit. ;)--> Nah, whenever anyone brings up Velikovsky as an authority, it's an automatic Nutbar Alert in the astronomy field. Velikovsky is even less credible than JFK conspiracy theorists and UFO believers. According to Velikovsky, Venus passed so close to the Earth their atmospheres touched, and that's where manna came from. (That's impossible. If those two planets came that close to each other, they would both be destroyed by the gravitational forces.) Velikovsky and his adherents can only kindly be described as nucking futs.
Well, what do you know, Zixar made a mistake! It was WhatTheHay who quoted Koestler's Velikovsky book. Mike only praised Koestler in general. I was wrong.
See? That wasn't so hard. Some folks should learn a valuable lesson from that.
quote: We GSers ARE the masses that Koestler talks about. We don't have a vested interest in believing one Way or another, and we don't sit in a room and agree on theology.
So then, are you claiming to be a member of the ignorant masses Koestler talks about, rather than a professional who has a vested interest in tradition and thereby keeping a monopoly on learning? Is this what you are claiming Shaz? Frankly I really don't think so. I also think most GS'ers would be put off by the remark of someone lumping them in right along with the ignorant masses.
Koestler stated restistance to innovation was not caused by the ignorant masses, but rather it came by way of professionals - or "the establishment" as I have put it.
The tragedy of the system (the establishment) resistance to change is that it slows down innovation - for example, it slows down scientific and medical advancement which only translates into supporting human pain and suffering. There's not much difference in the biblical field I venture to say either.
History teaches us the individual MUST PARTICIAPATE or else the individual ends up an ignorant victim or a captive of the system. Likewise, the general public also participates as ignorant victims of the system. For example, many (the general public) still think of the medical profession very much in God-like terms. The diagnoisis from their doctor might as well be the voice of God to them.
How the highly educated, intelligent, well trained doctors and scientists of today find themselves in this same head-in-the-sand ostrich position that has always been adopted by their regulators is not difficult to understand. Both of their professions are extremely regulated and controlled by the system, with fatal threats for disobedience - as doctors without their licenses and scientists without their research funds find their professions are terminated. Thus they sucuumb to total control by their regulators who, because they have not learned the lessons of history, truly believe that they are doing the right thing.
How is that any different in the biblical field? I venture to say it's not any different at all. Although the regulators of the medical and scientific system enjoy the perks, the power, the money, the prestige, the regulators did not create the situation but many were born into it. Furthermore, the more they espouse their position, for which many have large sums of money, the more they believe in it and because they are human the less they know about a subject, the more sure they are about the position they are taking on it. Sounds very much like the biblical field to me as well.
These men of position and prestige all have good intentions I am sure. However they refuse to look at any facts - especially facts they perceive threatens their authority. The higher religious echelon is no different.
I am sure I upset the status quo of many of the VPW antagonists by claiming VPW will ultimately end up in the annals of history as a man of great faith. It is said one of the important reasons for learning history is because history repeats itself, and therefore, to know history is to know the future.
If it is any consolation to the VPW antagonists, don't fret yourself over my remark of VPW going down in the annals of history as a great man of faith. I'm sure both you and I will be long dead and gone before we'll ever see it happen!
[This message was edited by What The Hay on February 03, 2004 at 22:45.]
VPW a man of great faith????? The only way VPW will be remembered this way is if a denomination sprouts up that idolizes him as much as the Mormons do Joseph Smith. Which reminds me of Mike. He is working on this, but will never succeed with this on Grease Spot Cafe. Sorry Mike, but you do make a contribution to Grease Spot, but not in the way that you think.
Well, dangit, docvic(praise be his name) believed in koestler, therefore koestler had to be an intellectual giant! Everything docvic(praise be his name) said came straight from God's mouth to docvic(praise be his name)'s ear!
quote:It is an extensive bit of research, and was fairly dry and boring. But it did seem to have some substance, providing his bibliographical material was in fact true. But who knows? It was something that VPW told us to read for the sake of accurate history.
Mr. Lingo:
Koestler's conclusions were plain old-fashioned wrong. I'm not saying anti-Semitic. I'm saying factually incorrect. Modern Jews were not descended from the Khazars, and Yiddish is not the Khazar language written with Hebrew letters. This factor ALONE disqualifies Wierwille's works as "the God-breathed Word." Wierwille's stuff is interesting, and sometimes quite valuable. But to stake your life on it (I'm not saying you would) takes a healthy dose of idolatry mixed in with closed-mindedness masquerading as steadfastness. Not that I'm making accusations, mind you. Just an observation.
Ignorant? Only somewhat, speaking for myself, ignorant mass that I am. But definitely not the "professional who has a vested interest in tradition and thereby keeping a monopoly on learning" that you would have us to be. I am not a professional in the Christian faith. No one pays me to be a Christian, and I don't believe I hold the cornerstone on all truth. I have no vested interest in preventing learning -- in fact, I welcome learning, and am one who is promoting new learning in a particular area of the medical field as we speak. I have no ability to prevent others from disseminating any doctrine they please.
If there is a collective opinion about the words and work of Victor Paul Wierwille here at Greasespot, then it is only the opinion of a few, noteworthy only in that so many different people can come to such similar conclusions about the man.
Why should someones conclusions about VPW bother me Shaz? It has often been said that power corrupts. But it is perhaps equally important to realize that weakness, too, corrupts. Power corrupts the few, while weakness corrupts the many.
Hatred, malice, rudeness, intolerance, and suspicion are the faults of weakness. The resentment of the weak does not spring from any injustice done to them, but from their sense of inadequacy and impotence.
You cannot win the weak by sharing your wealth with them. They will feel your generosity as oppression.
[This message was edited by What The Hay on February 04, 2004 at 0:40.]
I love it when Mike quotes Wierwille's PFAL book to support his belief that PFAL is god-breathed.
He quotes from a book that we don't agree on the value of, let alone it's God-breathedness (yes, I made that word up), as if producing the written words of the man many of us consider a charlatan will convince us that he wasn't a charlatan and his word were god-breathed
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
What is this? Smikeol plays 'good cop' while What The Spew plays 'bad cop'? -->
quote: If you want to convince me of your humility and readiness to learn from me, then send me your phone number.
Whattadeal, Mark!! Go for it! Go for it! ..... But make sure that he calls collect, ... and person to person instead of station to station, where the rates are higher, .... and during the day too, .... and make him spend a LOT of time, .... AT&T rates even.
:D--> Can I come up with money making idea$ or what?! :D-->
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
I don’t trust the flawed versions of the Bible that abound. Neither do you if you correct any of the botched verses in them or augment any verses in the margins."
their the same flaws vp learned from. other than other peoples works on them.
"My belief is NOT in VPW, but in the God Who gave him the PFAL revelations."
thats fine and dandy.
"Many people here post a lot of words. Why single me out?"
sorry if I hurt your feelings, it was my way of making a joke. nothing harmful intended.
"I am honest and up front about my closed mind on these matters. Why don’t you criticize them for their closed minds as they pose and posture themselves as having an open mind."
because I think the same way they do. I can forgive the wrong things they did, and I do know I learned some things when I was in that have saved my life. our minds were open for gods word, when does someone close their mind to a bad thing? not god, I don't think anyone here has a closed mind to god.
"The earlier post by WhatTheHay nails them on how they don’t even consider trying out my message for even a second."
we did, we all took PFAL, your msg is it's great, not everyone thinks that way
"At least I’m honest in that I have finished shopping, closed my mind like a steel vault, and will not consider any attacks on the integrity of this Word of God’s which He gave to us in PFAL."
I am honest enough to tell you I keep what I found worked for me in PFAL and still do it today. would I recommend someone contact TWI and find a twig, no, because it was and is run by bad people. I am thankful for what I learned and now I live my life by being the best son of God "I" can be. if PFAL is that great revelation VPW couldn't have closed the door on it, and thats pretty much what he did. if God opens a window, can we close it? did God open a window with PFAL, and if he did, who closed it?
"Do YOU have an open mind to coming back to PFAL?"
do you have an open mind to allow me what you ask of me? you say your mind is shut on this matter, so do most of the posters here. you haven't talked about PFAL here only said the words. this started out saying was DR a real DR, well I guess we all know without telling a lie we can say yes. was he a good man, after all we've learned we know he would have liked to be a better man but he hurt alot of people in many ways, ways I'm sure even he didn't know what was going to be happening in a ripple affect. if you truly want me to understand, why sit in a thread and argue when you could start another thread and show me what your talking about. wouldn't that make more sence and wouldn't people be more receptive? wouldn't that have allowed you to teach what you say is so vital to us. it seems the dr.PFAL debate is really a distraction from a truth you say you have. do you have that open mind you ask of me to tell yourself, ok, these people are nonreceptive and I'm not going to change that. it seems odd to me that you would come to a place where almost 100% of the people were burned in one way or another and wonder why they feel they way they do. a dog bites me I walk away from him.
quote:Oldies, you can twist and turn and misrepreset what folks say all you want, but it changes nothing - nothing at all.
Goey,
You and Oakspear have taken issue with my statement of using the word "most" instead of "much" as characterizing your statement. Ok, no problem. So then are you saying that I was wrong that you believe "most" of what VP taught was erroneous and self-serving? Am I wrong? Are you saying that most of it was godly?
The impression I've gotten from you over the years is that you have nothing much good to say about VPW, TWI and PFAL. If you've said some things, I've certainly missed them. Am I wrong? Then when I point out your feelings, and excuse me, mistakenly use a different word you used, you accuse me of twisting the meaning.
Come off of it will you please? You've had virtually nothing good to say about PFAL and TWI and VPW since you been here. If I'm wrong, please give me the courtesy of correcting my error and tell me what godly things came from PFAL and TWI.
Otherwise, please stop accusing me of twisting your words and meanings.
Alfakat accused me of nit picking, but he didn't seem to see this desperate picking of nits and eating them too that your accusers have employed in accusing you.
Not only do your accusers have nothing substantial to criticize you of, they also have nothing substantial to say why they stayed in the ministry so long. Either they got blessed and hence stayed, or they were extremely stupid and stayed.
Then, they also lack anything substantial of a positive nature to proclaim of makes up their NEW way of life. ...unless I missed those posts of theirs.
When our opponents must resort to such desperate moves, we know we have stumped them.
Just for your information, the very great importance difference between the Word of God and the Bible (and even more so: the difference between the Word and the KJV) can be found in “The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW.”
I just learned that this thread, which is very much About The Way has been HIDDEN in the “Entertainment Forum.” So, this ubiquitously hidden teaching of VPW’s has been HIDDEN AGAIN!
The first page of this teaching can be (temporarily?) found at:
The Word of God is spiritual. The adversary was cast out of heaven, the spiritual realm, down to earth, the senses realm.
When we learn the Bible, accurately, we have a temporary handle on a very effective club to subdue the adversary. However, since the adversary was given the power to be god of this world, the senses world, our senses club is only temporarily effective. Sooner or later the adversary distorts that written Word in our minds, fills us with fear, and kills us. This not only happens to individuals (no exceptions) it’s exactly what happened to the first century church.
The adversary has the ability to distort the senses Bible, and the senses understanding of it. The written Word is in the senses realm.
The adversary has NO ability to mess with The Spiritual Word Of God.
Paul labored hard (Gal.4:19) to get Christ formed in the minds of his followers, but many things thwarted this on a mass scale. Only a few got it. With Christ formed in the mind, the old man nature there is overruled, and God can teach that mind The Word Of God SPIRITUALLY.
With only the Bible we only had a temporary set of victories over the adversary. Dr labored hard to get us to master the 5-sense written revealed accurate Word in the PFAL books, but we all resisted, thinking we had it all when we were only winging it. We had an impressive club, but not the sword of the spirit.
The first century church had their temporary victories, followed by stunning, swift, and total defeat. Ditto for us.
We were eventually surrounded and defeated by the adversary because we were content with a senses knowledge of the Bible (and THAT only in partially accurate form), and we never graduated to The Word of God, spiritually.
Mastering the PFAL books 5-senses wise is the prerequisite for getting to learn the spiritual Word of God.
We were taught this in the AC's 16 keys to walking in the spirit #4 "Study the Word (written*) much. What you can know by the five senses God expects you to know. Proverbs 29:18, II Timothy 2:15" __* my inserted parenthesis
The difference between the KJV, even a substantially corrected one with wide margin notes, and the Word of God is the difference between life and death. We are getting a second chance to take up the sword and slay the dragon.
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:43.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:47.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:49.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:50.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:54.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:57.]
rant on, mike--scream louder!!! Please!!! You are the one digging your own hole....
And, NO, I DON'T GIVE ONE GOOD G**-DAMN ABOUT WHAT OTHERS HERE SAY---I am NOT in COLLUSION with any of them. I speak my OWN mind, not THEIRS. I could care less what any one thinks; that is their OWN right...sheeesh, Mike--you are tilting at windmills better than any man of La Mancha.
You, sir, are nuts-- I would not go to your church if it were the last one standing on earth...
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Mark Sanguinetti
Hi Mike:
I am merely trying to get you to think for yourself. A difficult job at times, but someone has to do it. It is however, not without its rewards. Sorry, but I do not have the time to look through your 1,957 and counting posts. Besides, your writing style is far from concise and can be seen as laborious.
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Zixar
Koestler was a sensationalist kook, and the fact that Mike (ADDED LATER: it wasn't Mike, my mistake. See below.--Zix) would quote from a book about Immanuel Velikovsky is just icing on the crazy cake.
From Skepdic.com:
Read the rest at http://skepdic.com/velikov.htmlVelikovsky was a psychologist who took it upon himself to draw wild conclusions about astronomy in his 1950 book Worlds In Collision. He theorized that Venus had actually been spun out of Jupiter a few thousand years ago, and that most of the miracles of the Old Testament (parting of the Red Sea, manna from heaven, etc.) could be traced to Venus flying by the Earth before settling into its current orbit. Any competent astronomer can tell you the myriad problems with Velikovsky's ridiculous claims, and Carl Sagan thoroughly debunked this idiot.
Read the following entry about a condition called apophenia:
http://skepdic.com/apophenia.html
Briefly:
In other words, you'd pretty much have to have the same psychosis in order to see all the meaningfulness Mike seems to see in PFAL.
[This message was edited by Zixar on February 03, 2004 at 22:27.]
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J0nny Ling0
Koestler, who wrote The Thirteenth Tribe was accused of anti-Semitism for that particular work. He basically contended that the Jews that are in Israel now, are not the Jews or, Judaens of the Bible. He contends that these present day Jews are really European Jews who descended from the Russian Steppes, a bunch known as the Khazars. Koestler contends that these Khazars, a wild and unruly bunch needed a national religion to keep them under control.
Therefore, the leaders of these Khazars sent to Israel (sometime in the middle ages) some emmissaries in order to import some Rabbis to come back and teach the Jewish religion to the people of "Khazaria". Once this was done, these people who had nothing to do with the bloodline of the Twelve Tribes, contends Koestler, became the "Thirteenth Tribe" and had nothing to do with the bloodline of the original Twelve Tribes.
Furthermore, these Jews now in the geographic location of Israel are in fact imposters according to Koestler.
It is an extensive bit of research, and was fairly dry and boring. But it did seem to have some substance, providing his bibliographical material was in fact true. But who knows? It was something that VPW told us to read for the sake of accurate history. BUt like I said, it was dry and boring, and I don't think I even finished it.
I think I read that Koestler comitted suicide...
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George Aar
Zixar,
http://skepdic.com/
Since when did you start going to MY church?
geo.
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Zixar
George: You can praise Google for that bit.
;)--> Nah, whenever anyone brings up Velikovsky as an authority, it's an automatic Nutbar Alert in the astronomy field. Velikovsky is even less credible than JFK conspiracy theorists and UFO believers. According to Velikovsky, Venus passed so close to the Earth their atmospheres touched, and that's where manna came from. (That's impossible. If those two planets came that close to each other, they would both be destroyed by the gravitational forces.) Velikovsky and his adherents can only kindly be described as nucking futs.
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Zixar
Well, what do you know, Zixar made a mistake! It was WhatTheHay who quoted Koestler's Velikovsky book. Mike only praised Koestler in general. I was wrong.
See? That wasn't so hard. Some folks should learn a valuable lesson from that.
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What The Hay
So then, are you claiming to be a member of the ignorant masses Koestler talks about, rather than a professional who has a vested interest in tradition and thereby keeping a monopoly on learning? Is this what you are claiming Shaz? Frankly I really don't think so. I also think most GS'ers would be put off by the remark of someone lumping them in right along with the ignorant masses.
Koestler stated restistance to innovation was not caused by the ignorant masses, but rather it came by way of professionals - or "the establishment" as I have put it.
The tragedy of the system (the establishment) resistance to change is that it slows down innovation - for example, it slows down scientific and medical advancement which only translates into supporting human pain and suffering. There's not much difference in the biblical field I venture to say either.
History teaches us the individual MUST PARTICIAPATE or else the individual ends up an ignorant victim or a captive of the system. Likewise, the general public also participates as ignorant victims of the system. For example, many (the general public) still think of the medical profession very much in God-like terms. The diagnoisis from their doctor might as well be the voice of God to them.
How the highly educated, intelligent, well trained doctors and scientists of today find themselves in this same head-in-the-sand ostrich position that has always been adopted by their regulators is not difficult to understand. Both of their professions are extremely regulated and controlled by the system, with fatal threats for disobedience - as doctors without their licenses and scientists without their research funds find their professions are terminated. Thus they sucuumb to total control by their regulators who, because they have not learned the lessons of history, truly believe that they are doing the right thing.
How is that any different in the biblical field? I venture to say it's not any different at all. Although the regulators of the medical and scientific system enjoy the perks, the power, the money, the prestige, the regulators did not create the situation but many were born into it. Furthermore, the more they espouse their position, for which many have large sums of money, the more they believe in it and because they are human the less they know about a subject, the more sure they are about the position they are taking on it. Sounds very much like the biblical field to me as well.
These men of position and prestige all have good intentions I am sure. However they refuse to look at any facts - especially facts they perceive threatens their authority. The higher religious echelon is no different.
I am sure I upset the status quo of many of the VPW antagonists by claiming VPW will ultimately end up in the annals of history as a man of great faith. It is said one of the important reasons for learning history is because history repeats itself, and therefore, to know history is to know the future.
If it is any consolation to the VPW antagonists, don't fret yourself over my remark of VPW going down in the annals of history as a great man of faith. I'm sure both you and I will be long dead and gone before we'll ever see it happen!
[This message was edited by What The Hay on February 03, 2004 at 22:45.]
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What The Hay
For the record Zix, I was quoting from Arthur Koestler's The Age of Velikovsky, - not from Immanuel Velikovsky's - Worlds In Collision.
Please get your facts straight before you post.
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Mark Sanguinetti
VPW a man of great faith????? The only way VPW will be remembered this way is if a denomination sprouts up that idolizes him as much as the Mormons do Joseph Smith. Which reminds me of Mike. He is working on this, but will never succeed with this on Grease Spot Cafe. Sorry Mike, but you do make a contribution to Grease Spot, but not in the way that you think.
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excathedra
guess what mike
and other possibles
we're all gonna meet our maker in the sky
i can wait
:)-->
?
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ex10
What the Hay
I'm just curious....did you know VPW personally?
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Steve!
Umm, WhatTheHay, I don't see where Zixar made a mistake . . .
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Steve!
Well, dangit, docvic(praise be his name) believed in koestler, therefore koestler had to be an intellectual giant! Everything docvic(praise be his name) said came straight from God's mouth to docvic(praise be his name)'s ear!
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Raf
Mr. Lingo:
Koestler's conclusions were plain old-fashioned wrong. I'm not saying anti-Semitic. I'm saying factually incorrect. Modern Jews were not descended from the Khazars, and Yiddish is not the Khazar language written with Hebrew letters. This factor ALONE disqualifies Wierwille's works as "the God-breathed Word." Wierwille's stuff is interesting, and sometimes quite valuable. But to stake your life on it (I'm not saying you would) takes a healthy dose of idolatry mixed in with closed-mindedness masquerading as steadfastness. Not that I'm making accusations, mind you. Just an observation.
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shazdancer
WhatTheHay,
Ignorant? Only somewhat, speaking for myself, ignorant mass that I am. But definitely not the "professional who has a vested interest in tradition and thereby keeping a monopoly on learning" that you would have us to be. I am not a professional in the Christian faith. No one pays me to be a Christian, and I don't believe I hold the cornerstone on all truth. I have no vested interest in preventing learning -- in fact, I welcome learning, and am one who is promoting new learning in a particular area of the medical field as we speak. I have no ability to prevent others from disseminating any doctrine they please.
If there is a collective opinion about the words and work of Victor Paul Wierwille here at Greasespot, then it is only the opinion of a few, noteworthy only in that so many different people can come to such similar conclusions about the man.
Sorry if that bothers you.
Shaz
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What The Hay
Why should someones conclusions about VPW bother me Shaz? It has often been said that power corrupts. But it is perhaps equally important to realize that weakness, too, corrupts. Power corrupts the few, while weakness corrupts the many.
Hatred, malice, rudeness, intolerance, and suspicion are the faults of weakness. The resentment of the weak does not spring from any injustice done to them, but from their sense of inadequacy and impotence.
You cannot win the weak by sharing your wealth with them. They will feel your generosity as oppression.
[This message was edited by What The Hay on February 04, 2004 at 0:40.]
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Oakspear
I love it when Mike quotes Wierwille's PFAL book to support his belief that PFAL is god-breathed.
He quotes from a book that we don't agree on the value of, let alone it's God-breathedness (yes, I made that word up), as if producing the written words of the man many of us consider a charlatan will convince us that he wasn't a charlatan and his word were god-breathed
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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GarthP2000
What is this? Smikeol plays 'good cop' while What The Spew plays 'bad cop'?
-->
Whattadeal, Mark!! Go for it! Go for it! ..... But make sure that he calls collect, ... and person to person instead of station to station, where the rates are higher, .... and during the day too, .... and make him spend a LOT of time, .... AT&T rates even.
My own secret sign-off ====v,
Rational logic cannot have blind faith as one of its foundations.
Prophet Emeritus of THE,
and Wandering CyberUU Hippie,
Garth P.
www.gapstudioweb.com
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papajohn
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oldiesman
Goey,
You and Oakspear have taken issue with my statement of using the word "most" instead of "much" as characterizing your statement. Ok, no problem. So then are you saying that I was wrong that you believe "most" of what VP taught was erroneous and self-serving? Am I wrong? Are you saying that most of it was godly?
The impression I've gotten from you over the years is that you have nothing much good to say about VPW, TWI and PFAL. If you've said some things, I've certainly missed them. Am I wrong? Then when I point out your feelings, and excuse me, mistakenly use a different word you used, you accuse me of twisting the meaning.
Come off of it will you please? You've had virtually nothing good to say about PFAL and TWI and VPW since you been here. If I'm wrong, please give me the courtesy of correcting my error and tell me what godly things came from PFAL and TWI.
Otherwise, please stop accusing me of twisting your words and meanings.
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Mike
Oldiesman,
Alfakat accused me of nit picking, but he didn't seem to see this desperate picking of nits and eating them too that your accusers have employed in accusing you.
Not only do your accusers have nothing substantial to criticize you of, they also have nothing substantial to say why they stayed in the ministry so long. Either they got blessed and hence stayed, or they were extremely stupid and stayed.
Then, they also lack anything substantial of a positive nature to proclaim of makes up their NEW way of life. ...unless I missed those posts of theirs.
When our opponents must resort to such desperate moves, we know we have stumped them.
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Mike
alfakat,
Just for your information, the very great importance difference between the Word of God and the Bible (and even more so: the difference between the Word and the KJV) can be found in “The Ubiquitously Hidden Teaching of VPW.”
I just learned that this thread, which is very much About The Way has been HIDDEN in the “Entertainment Forum.” So, this ubiquitously hidden teaching of VPW’s has been HIDDEN AGAIN!
The first page of this teaching can be (temporarily?) found at:
http://gscafe.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=9...3772#5496073772
***
The Word of God is spiritual. The adversary was cast out of heaven, the spiritual realm, down to earth, the senses realm.
When we learn the Bible, accurately, we have a temporary handle on a very effective club to subdue the adversary. However, since the adversary was given the power to be god of this world, the senses world, our senses club is only temporarily effective. Sooner or later the adversary distorts that written Word in our minds, fills us with fear, and kills us. This not only happens to individuals (no exceptions) it’s exactly what happened to the first century church.
The adversary has the ability to distort the senses Bible, and the senses understanding of it. The written Word is in the senses realm.
The adversary has NO ability to mess with The Spiritual Word Of God.
Paul labored hard (Gal.4:19) to get Christ formed in the minds of his followers, but many things thwarted this on a mass scale. Only a few got it. With Christ formed in the mind, the old man nature there is overruled, and God can teach that mind The Word Of God SPIRITUALLY.
With only the Bible we only had a temporary set of victories over the adversary. Dr labored hard to get us to master the 5-sense written revealed accurate Word in the PFAL books, but we all resisted, thinking we had it all when we were only winging it. We had an impressive club, but not the sword of the spirit.
The first century church had their temporary victories, followed by stunning, swift, and total defeat. Ditto for us.
We were eventually surrounded and defeated by the adversary because we were content with a senses knowledge of the Bible (and THAT only in partially accurate form), and we never graduated to The Word of God, spiritually.
Mastering the PFAL books 5-senses wise is the prerequisite for getting to learn the spiritual Word of God.
We were taught this in the AC's 16 keys to walking in the spirit #4 "Study the Word (written*) much. What you can know by the five senses God expects you to know. Proverbs 29:18, II Timothy 2:15" __* my inserted parenthesis
The difference between the KJV, even a substantially corrected one with wide margin notes, and the Word of God is the difference between life and death. We are getting a second chance to take up the sword and slay the dragon.
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:43.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:47.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:49.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:50.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:54.]
[This message was edited by Mike on February 04, 2004 at 12:57.]
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alfakat
rant on, mike--scream louder!!! Please!!! You are the one digging your own hole....
And, NO, I DON'T GIVE ONE GOOD G**-DAMN ABOUT WHAT OTHERS HERE SAY---I am NOT in COLLUSION with any of them. I speak my OWN mind, not THEIRS. I could care less what any one thinks; that is their OWN right...sheeesh, Mike--you are tilting at windmills better than any man of La Mancha.
You, sir, are nuts-- I would not go to your church if it were the last one standing on earth...
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Oakspear
Old One:
Yeah, I was nitpicking
:D-->
But you know, I'm only going to do that to posters I disagree with, the folks I agree with can get called by the folks that disagree with them.
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice...but in practice there is
Oakspear
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