I know for my own life, I can't stand to go back there (20 years of TWI) because of how it makes me feel, and for two years I went on and on about it till I got it out of my system, now I want to distance myself as far as I can from it, that's what works for me and whatever works for you, the more power to you!
He just doesn't understand the gist of what's been said. He must somehow think that the posts are complimentary of docvic(praise be his name).
No Steve!, I think it's YOU who doesn't understand what has been said, about multiple experiences, which includes MINE.
Try reading those quotes (the ones I quoted) and try applying them to ME as you would with others you agree with. My guess is, you won't. But who knows, miracles happen.
Maybe some of us need to examine WHY we were vulnerable, WHY we put up with the abuse in order to PREVENT future abuse, be it from an ex spouse or a cult.....in order to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
Maybe it is healthy to analyse rather than just shove it in some back compartment.
Have you ever seen a person go from one damaging or abusive situation to the next...never aware of what it is that makes them vulnerable in the first place?
no no NO cowgirl, I am saying that it is necessary and needfull for some to continue....and that it would be incorrect to place others in a box by saying that we are in a rut or not getting over it simply because we contimue in discussion, annalysis, bitching whatever.....
This is an internet forum. Its virtual. No one is forced to come here. The effort required to post here is minimal. Its not like its a "life" investment. Maybe some people scour every post. I don't know and if they do then so be it. I don't care. People can work jobs , go to college, have families, go to a church, and still post here. In TWI the only possibility was to serve TWI. There was little time for anything else.
I don't see how GS Cafe can be represented as a place for people whose only function in life is to moan about TWI. Besides if a person doesn't like it here then why do they keep coming ? Who is twisting anyone's arm ? Seems to me that people get fed up only when they start encountering opinions that don't match their own. Debate, disagree, and discuss but when people "pick up their toys" and wanna leave its a sure bet they got their feelings hurt so they wanna make like the entire forum has a problem. Its a tired act.
Lots of posters have tried to dismiss Waydale and Gs Cafe as a collection of whiners, malcontents, infidels, reprobates, and lots of other names I can't recall at the moment. And almost all of these people still had some type of soft spot for TWI or its leaders. Of course there was always the "get over it" crowd who ,incidentally, were some of the most accusative posters ever. And some of them were former leaders and corps who were trying to get people to "forgive" them so they could rest easy.
Incidentally - lots of Way leaders (past and present) want you to "get over it" because they know they have done lots of horrible things to people and they are lookng for an easy way out.
LEt people talk about what they want. It doesn't cost anyone a dime to come here (expect maybe the monthly ISP bill) so how the hell is it a problem for someone if this place exists to discuss the problems with TWI ? Is it taking food out of someone's mouth ? Is it depriving someone of a job ? Peoples' lives were impacted by the evil perpetrated by TWI and its leaders Its not some damn joke. Some were heavily invested in an organization that turned on them and slandered them. So now they have a chance to talk about it yet someone else wants them to quit "being redundant" ? Who has the problem here ?
I think there is an incredibly huge canyon between "understanding" and "accepting".
A lot of people believe understanding = accepting.
I don't.
That being said, what might be really important is to find a way to accept something...without fully understanding.
Another (maybe too obviuos) point is that your need to understand is not so much a need to understand as it a need to feel like you are surrounded by people going in the same direction as you.
NO One person here is going in the same direction...some are similar ...some are very much NOT similar....none is less valued or purposeful, but how to accept that is not easy after working hard at rejecting what the Way had shoved down our throat.
I happen to have a difference of opinion that doesn't line up with your thinking and I get my head chewed off for it, like I'm being judgemental etc.
Isn't that the same crap that went on in TWI ?
If your thinking doesn't line up with us, well then let me blast you with what's right! You're not allowed to voice your opinion here unless we think it's acceptable and it lines up with our doctrine.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, it sounds like Twi all over again, only under a different name !
For what its worth Cowgirl I hardly ever come in the About The Way Forums.
When I first got here about 5 years ago there was alot of new information and a lot of things in me left to unscrew. There was alot of psychological manipulation in the Way and a lot of self understanding to gain by coming in here. I did that for a year or two then --for me - I was done..
The whole episode became just another chapter that was a part of my history that held no more sway over me than my grade school years or any other part of my life of equal length that is gone.
I found my time to let it all go and couldn't give a **** about it now-- I suppose that the timing is different for everybody depending on their personal experiences and makeup...
I happen to have a difference of opinion that doesn't line up with your thinking and I get my head chewed off for it, like I'm being judgemental etc.
Expressing your opinion ? The fact that you feel GS Cafe is reptitive is fine. The fact that you think others should feel that it is repetitive is *not* fine. You think that its "redundant" and that GS keeps plowing the same field over and over. People arrive here on thier own schedule, remain here as long as they see fit, and leave when they are ready. I don't recall that anyone generated a "its been long enough now" metric for this forum. There is no "sell by date" on the material here.
Thats cool that you've gotten what you wanted out of GSpot and now feel that you are done with it but don't try to make that decision for someone else. You crossed a line with that one.
Oh and this:
it sounds like Twi all over again, only under a different name !
>>
It sure does ! I can make my own decisions on the relevancy of GS Cafe. If its old news so be but let me make that my decision please
I understand what you meant, I think Cowgirl, about not needing to go over it anymore.
Truthfully, sometimes I feel like I don't want to think about my childhood anymore because it wasn't so great. So, for now I've decided just not to think about it for a while because it got to be like playing that tape over and over again. Now, I'm trying to think of the good parts about my childhood and have started a list so I can write those down and think about that whenever I want to by reading the list.
Because of this forum, I've gotten rid of a lot of my anger over being duped by twi, but not all of it, but I keep coming here now because I like the people. Hopefully, someday I'll have gotten over all of it regarding twi and my childhood. I hope so and believe so.
Anyway, coming here is very therapeutic for me, as some others have stated, and also, there are some very bright and interesting and talented people who post. So, I enjoy coming back.
So, I've got to go listen to some Leonard Skinner now. Take care Cowgirl. You're wonderful and you can disagree with me anytime and I'll still like you.
Well, cowgirl, my experience has been very healing. In fact, I go to a therapist and she thought it was the best thing ever. So even though you feel that it is redundant and isn't good for you it is good for some others. Depends on the individual.
Now I like my cow meat well done,but Dang could you take the bovine off the grill she is past well done!! It's safe to say that I know Cowgirl pretty well and I really don't think her intentions were to judge anyone. Her crime may well be poor composition. (I can relate been there done that) I think maybe this is what she was trying to convey.
One of the signs of spiritual abuse is that the abused person will feel like he or she is both on the verge of a breakthrough and on the verge of a breakdown. Most books on spiritual abuse have a chapter on stoping the mouth of the abuser or seperating yourself from the abuse and abusive environment. In the case of physical abuse the victims will be removed to a safe house. Most books encourage people to rid themselves of things that remind them of the abuse. This could be books tapes or anykind of things. often we do rid ourselves of physical things but hold on to the mental ones. The abusers mouth must be stopped. Quite often we can not get the abuser to actually shut up,but we can seperate ourselves from the influences of abuse This may take days or years depending on how bad you were abused. Maybe her frustrated intentions were that she likes you guys and wished it would not take years.
I'm being honest here, I just don't understand. All this stuff that keeps getting written about Twi and it's leadership day after day, post after post, doncha kind of of want to close that chapter in your life and not keep rehashing and reminding yourself of all the horrors about it?
I've heard people say they post cause they want the innies to see the garbage, but I really believe that there's already more than enough for them to read!
But what's it doing to your own life (something that you despised so much) to keep reliving it over and over again, day after day
?
Don't you honestly think it gets kind of redundant and kind of keeps you back instead of moving ahead?
Cowgirl -- David here, with what I hope you see as an honest answer to your question. :)-->
I've read the entire thread, and now may I say this.
Don't ever say the above quote, in an AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) meeting. The speakers at those meetings have had the *worst* experiences, and are called on to speak about them all the time, because of that reason.
The constant reminder of where they all once *were*, makes all in attendance thankful for where they now *are*. They (those in attendance) see the great difference that is evident in their lives, because they chose to be alcohol free, and the reminder (for each of them personally) of what they used to be like is a powerful incentive to never, ever return to what they once were.
Imo -- twi is the same (in a sense) -- in that we were duped, taken for a ride, whatever you want to call it, and speaking about our (collective) experiences from twi 1/2/3, helps the healing process, since we are all examining what we once were, versus what we are now -- just like the folks that attend those AA meetings who discuss how bad they were, how down-trodden their life was, how hopeless things seemed, and how they now have a promise of a future, since they have left that which has debilitated them.
Twi is a drug as powerful as alcohol. It messes with the mind, causes you to do things that you know are not right, yet you do them anyway.
In my humble opinion -- discussion is good. Even if it is re-hashing the old *injustices* that happened -- it gets it out of your system, and then you can move on. It works for the folks in AA to see how *bad* they were at one time, and to re-discover their freedom. Let's let it be just as *re-habilitating* for us, as well. :)-->
I was involved with TWI for quite some time and then I got involved in a spin off group. I went through an abusive home growing up. Because of these things, I needed a lot of healing. This site, the people here with their understanding ear has helped me. I stay because it continues to strengthen me and I hope to help others who might be swaying about whether or not to leave or stay. For some it takes longer to heal than others. For some, they did not have a voice for so looooooonng, but now they have found it and their not planning on shutting up. :)-->
Imo -- twi is the same (in a sense) -- in that we were duped, taken for a ride, whatever you want to call it, and speaking about our (collective) experiences from twi 1/2/3, helps the healing process, since we are all examining what we once were, versus what we are now -- just like the folks that attend those AA meetings who discuss how bad they were, how down-trodden their life was, how hopeless things seemed, and how they now have a promise of a future, since they have left that which has debilitated them.
Just a passing couple of questions on your comment David. I assume you were in AA meetings?
(1) How many former alcoholics do you think access endless blame to the liquor companies? Can you give a percentage?
(2) How many former alcoholics do you think accept personal responsibility for their past drinking? Can you give a percentage?
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Cowgirl
I know for my own life, I can't stand to go back there (20 years of TWI) because of how it makes me feel, and for two years I went on and on about it till I got it out of my system, now I want to distance myself as far as I can from it, that's what works for me and whatever works for you, the more power to you!
Cowgirl
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oldiesman
Try reading those quotes (the ones I quoted) and try applying them to ME as you would with others you agree with. My guess is, you won't. But who knows, miracles happen.
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WhiteDove
Cowgirl ole friend
For what it's worth I understood your question.
Is this the part where I say I told ya so?
:)-->
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rascal
Maybe some of us need to examine WHY we were vulnerable, WHY we put up with the abuse in order to PREVENT future abuse, be it from an ex spouse or a cult.....in order to avoid repeating the same mistakes.
Maybe it is healthy to analyse rather than just shove it in some back compartment.
Have you ever seen a person go from one damaging or abusive situation to the next...never aware of what it is that makes them vulnerable in the first place?
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Cowgirl
Sorry Rascal, I needed to delete this but I read your post, thanks.
Cowgirl
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waterbuffalo
Thanks for clarifying that, Cowgirl, and to answer your question, I think it's called validation, for some of us anyway.
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rascal
no no NO cowgirl, I am saying that it is necessary and needfull for some to continue....and that it would be incorrect to place others in a box by saying that we are in a rut or not getting over it simply because we contimue in discussion, annalysis, bitching whatever.....
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diazbro
This is an internet forum. Its virtual. No one is forced to come here. The effort required to post here is minimal. Its not like its a "life" investment. Maybe some people scour every post. I don't know and if they do then so be it. I don't care. People can work jobs , go to college, have families, go to a church, and still post here. In TWI the only possibility was to serve TWI. There was little time for anything else.
I don't see how GS Cafe can be represented as a place for people whose only function in life is to moan about TWI. Besides if a person doesn't like it here then why do they keep coming ? Who is twisting anyone's arm ? Seems to me that people get fed up only when they start encountering opinions that don't match their own. Debate, disagree, and discuss but when people "pick up their toys" and wanna leave its a sure bet they got their feelings hurt so they wanna make like the entire forum has a problem. Its a tired act.
Lots of posters have tried to dismiss Waydale and Gs Cafe as a collection of whiners, malcontents, infidels, reprobates, and lots of other names I can't recall at the moment. And almost all of these people still had some type of soft spot for TWI or its leaders. Of course there was always the "get over it" crowd who ,incidentally, were some of the most accusative posters ever. And some of them were former leaders and corps who were trying to get people to "forgive" them so they could rest easy.
Incidentally - lots of Way leaders (past and present) want you to "get over it" because they know they have done lots of horrible things to people and they are lookng for an easy way out.
LEt people talk about what they want. It doesn't cost anyone a dime to come here (expect maybe the monthly ISP bill) so how the hell is it a problem for someone if this place exists to discuss the problems with TWI ? Is it taking food out of someone's mouth ? Is it depriving someone of a job ? Peoples' lives were impacted by the evil perpetrated by TWI and its leaders Its not some damn joke. Some were heavily invested in an organization that turned on them and slandered them. So now they have a chance to talk about it yet someone else wants them to quit "being redundant" ? Who has the problem here ?
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DaddyHoundog
I think there is an incredibly huge canyon between "understanding" and "accepting".
A lot of people believe understanding = accepting.
I don't.
That being said, what might be really important is to find a way to accept something...without fully understanding.
Another (maybe too obviuos) point is that your need to understand is not so much a need to understand as it a need to feel like you are surrounded by people going in the same direction as you.
NO One person here is going in the same direction...some are similar ...some are very much NOT similar....none is less valued or purposeful, but how to accept that is not easy after working hard at rejecting what the Way had shoved down our throat.
just my .02
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Cowgirl
I happen to have a difference of opinion that doesn't line up with your thinking and I get my head chewed off for it, like I'm being judgemental etc.
Isn't that the same crap that went on in TWI ?
If your thinking doesn't line up with us, well then let me blast you with what's right! You're not allowed to voice your opinion here unless we think it's acceptable and it lines up with our doctrine.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, it sounds like Twi all over again, only under a different name !
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mstar1
For what its worth Cowgirl I hardly ever come in the About The Way Forums.
When I first got here about 5 years ago there was alot of new information and a lot of things in me left to unscrew. There was alot of psychological manipulation in the Way and a lot of self understanding to gain by coming in here. I did that for a year or two then --for me - I was done..
The whole episode became just another chapter that was a part of my history that held no more sway over me than my grade school years or any other part of my life of equal length that is gone.
I found my time to let it all go and couldn't give a **** about it now-- I suppose that the timing is different for everybody depending on their personal experiences and makeup...
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markomalley
(deleted due to being an ignorant response. My apologies to all)
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diazbro
Expressing your opinion ? The fact that you feel GS Cafe is reptitive is fine. The fact that you think others should feel that it is repetitive is *not* fine. You think that its "redundant" and that GS keeps plowing the same field over and over. People arrive here on thier own schedule, remain here as long as they see fit, and leave when they are ready. I don't recall that anyone generated a "its been long enough now" metric for this forum. There is no "sell by date" on the material here.
Thats cool that you've gotten what you wanted out of GSpot and now feel that you are done with it but don't try to make that decision for someone else. You crossed a line with that one.
Oh and this:
it sounds like Twi all over again, only under a different name !
>>
It sure does ! I can make my own decisions on the relevancy of GS Cafe. If its old news so be but let me make that my decision please
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Cowgirl
Diazbro, I was referring to the "Way Forum" not GS as a whole.
Ok, I'll go sit in my "time-out" chair...
:)-->
Cowgirl
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waterbuffalo
I understand what you meant, I think Cowgirl, about not needing to go over it anymore.
Truthfully, sometimes I feel like I don't want to think about my childhood anymore because it wasn't so great. So, for now I've decided just not to think about it for a while because it got to be like playing that tape over and over again. Now, I'm trying to think of the good parts about my childhood and have started a list so I can write those down and think about that whenever I want to by reading the list.
Because of this forum, I've gotten rid of a lot of my anger over being duped by twi, but not all of it, but I keep coming here now because I like the people. Hopefully, someday I'll have gotten over all of it regarding twi and my childhood. I hope so and believe so.
Anyway, coming here is very therapeutic for me, as some others have stated, and also, there are some very bright and interesting and talented people who post. So, I enjoy coming back.
So, I've got to go listen to some Leonard Skinner now. Take care Cowgirl. You're wonderful and you can disagree with me anytime and I'll still like you.
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rascal
I thought people were for the most part quite pleasant and tried very hard to explain cowgirl....
It would seem that you didn`t really want our answeres to your question after all.
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vickles
Well, cowgirl, my experience has been very healing. In fact, I go to a therapist and she thought it was the best thing ever. So even though you feel that it is redundant and isn't good for you it is good for some others. Depends on the individual.
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WhiteDove
Now I like my cow meat well done,but Dang could you take the bovine off the grill she is past well done!! It's safe to say that I know Cowgirl pretty well and I really don't think her intentions were to judge anyone. Her crime may well be poor composition. (I can relate been there done that) I think maybe this is what she was trying to convey.
One of the signs of spiritual abuse is that the abused person will feel like he or she is both on the verge of a breakthrough and on the verge of a breakdown. Most books on spiritual abuse have a chapter on stoping the mouth of the abuser or seperating yourself from the abuse and abusive environment. In the case of physical abuse the victims will be removed to a safe house. Most books encourage people to rid themselves of things that remind them of the abuse. This could be books tapes or anykind of things. often we do rid ourselves of physical things but hold on to the mental ones. The abusers mouth must be stopped. Quite often we can not get the abuser to actually shut up,but we can seperate ourselves from the influences of abuse This may take days or years depending on how bad you were abused. Maybe her frustrated intentions were that she likes you guys and wished it would not take years.
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dmiller
Cowgirl -- David here, with what I hope you see as an honest answer to your question.
:)-->
I've read the entire thread, and now may I say this.
Don't ever say the above quote, in an AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) meeting. The speakers at those meetings have had the *worst* experiences, and are called on to speak about them all the time, because of that reason.
The constant reminder of where they all once *were*, makes all in attendance thankful for where they now *are*. They (those in attendance) see the great difference that is evident in their lives, because they chose to be alcohol free, and the reminder (for each of them personally) of what they used to be like is a powerful incentive to never, ever return to what they once were.
Imo -- twi is the same (in a sense) -- in that we were duped, taken for a ride, whatever you want to call it, and speaking about our (collective) experiences from twi 1/2/3, helps the healing process, since we are all examining what we once were, versus what we are now -- just like the folks that attend those AA meetings who discuss how bad they were, how down-trodden their life was, how hopeless things seemed, and how they now have a promise of a future, since they have left that which has debilitated them.
Twi is a drug as powerful as alcohol. It messes with the mind, causes you to do things that you know are not right, yet you do them anyway.
In my humble opinion -- discussion is good. Even if it is re-hashing the old *injustices* that happened -- it gets it out of your system, and then you can move on. It works for the folks in AA to see how *bad* they were at one time, and to re-discover their freedom. Let's let it be just as *re-habilitating* for us, as well.
:)-->
David
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A la prochaine
Very well put Music Man.
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gladtobeout
CG
I was involved with TWI for quite some time and then I got involved in a spin off group. I went through an abusive home growing up. Because of these things, I needed a lot of healing. This site, the people here with their understanding ear has helped me. I stay because it continues to strengthen me and I hope to help others who might be swaying about whether or not to leave or stay. For some it takes longer to heal than others. For some, they did not have a voice for so looooooonng, but now they have found it and their not planning on shutting up.
:)-->
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Belle
Edited because I was being very rude.
I humbly apologize, CG.
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oldiesman
(1) How many former alcoholics do you think access endless blame to the liquor companies? Can you give a percentage?
(2) How many former alcoholics do you think accept personal responsibility for their past drinking? Can you give a percentage?
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waterbuffalo
(((Cowgirl)))
SHE SAID SHE WAS SORRY SO LEAVE HER ALONE, ALREADY, OK????
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