Cowgirl, print out a copy of this article and take it with you to the airport. If you see something going on, show them the article... if they don't do anything... you know what? take about 25 copies with you, if you see something suspicious, ask about it, and then pass out copies of the article! they'll have to do something!
quote: Coulter also writes that a few months later, at Mr. Mineta's behest, the Department of Transportation (DOT) filed complaints against United Airlines and American Airlines (who, combined, had lost 8 pilots, 25 flight attendants and 213 passengers on 9/11 - not counting the 19 Arab hijackers). In November 2003, United Airlines settled their case with the DOT for $1.5 million. In March 2004, American Airlines settled their case with the DOT for $1.5 million. The DOT also charged Continental Airlines with discriminating against passengers who appeared to be Arab, Middle Eastern or Muslim. Continental Airlines settled their complaint with the DOT in April of 2004 for $.5 million.
Mr Mineta seems to think that it is better to risk having a plane blown up than to risk hurting the feelings of a few people.
Goes to show what sort of world this has become, hm?
Mr Mineta seems to think that it is better to risk having a plane blown up than to risk hurting the feelings of a few people.
Goes to show what sort of world this has become, hm?
Same thing happened in our country (I think it was) in the last year or so, but the "risk" happened to concern a few fish, versus humans.
Wildfire was happening, out West, and out of control. Planes were in place to scoop water out of lakes in the area, and dump the water on the fire. Enter -- local envirionmentalists.
There was a fish (endangered) living in the lake that the water was to be "scooped" from, and because of that, the planes were grounded.
Because of this action, the fish lived, while (I think) 8 humans died.
I, for one, would never think twice about the "public good" over that of a few individuals, or even fish -- for that matter.
You pegged it right -- this world is going to hell-in-a-hand-basket.
Securtiy gets to be a tricky business, eh? And it isn't just about hurting someone's feelings, it is also about who you hire and how well paid they are. Frequent "changing of the guard" would probably help as well.
Here's another true story.
The attorney I work for was in trial last week. This meant I too was in and out of the courthouse quite a few times.
The courthouse is supposed to be a secured building. You have to go through a metal detector and your purse and briefcase are scanned.
I don't even recall how many times I passed myself and my things through those scanners last week.
Well, it turns out, for most of those passes, I had a rather large pair of scissors in my brief case and no one caught it, though one guard almost did.
This past spring I had been making fliers for the boys' school and had put the scissors in my briefcase so I could cut the paper in half. I had forgotten about them.
The only reason I even found them this past Thursday was because after one of my trips through the scanner, while I was waiting for the elevator, I noticed the security guard was looking over the picture of the contents of my briefcase. He stopped and zoomed in on an image that looked like a knife. I knew it was my briefcase and I kind of wondered what it was I had in there that looked like that.
The security guard never did stop me or ask me to empty my briefcase. I got on the elevator and proceeded to the courtroom.
Later, when I went home, I emptied my briefcase to figure out what it was that had made that image on the scanner, and there the scissors were.
Kind of spooky to think I spent four days making numerous trips in and out of the courthouse with those scissors in my bag and no one stopped me.
Dang, and I'm flying Northwest/KLM to Europe & on to Africa later this week!
You're right about security in Europe. They do a MUCH better job, are MUCH more thorough, and are at the same time, less intrusive than the TSA drones.
I've never been to NY, never seen the Twin Towers, and don't know anyone who died in the attack. I did make a trip to DC in Nov. 2001 and saw the Pentagon. That was enough to leave a lasting impression in my mind and heart for the rest of my life.
Part of the problem, I think, in dealing with terrorists, is that we want to deal with them on "American, civilized, everybody's got rights, politically correct" terms. They know that and they count on that. Terrorists (and I don't even like that term, it seems to give people of that mindset a sort of power and control and yes, even respect. Maybe we could call them annoying gnats) have absolutely no regard for human life, not their own, not anyone else's.
The people in that article were not paranoid, they were observant, and it seems rightfully so. Richard Reid, "the shoe-bomber" was stopped by observant passengers, who had to hold him down and physically stop him from trying to kill them. The annoying gnats are hell-bent on killing themselves and whoever else to further their cause. We have to continue to be observant, be sharp, speak up, and not be afraid. I won't give these people any place in my life but I also won't give them my life.
Part of the problem, I think, in dealing with terrorists, is that we want to deal with them on "American, civilized, everybody's got rights, politically correct" terms. They know that and they count on that.
How else are we supposed to act? You have to understand that if you take away their (meaning the people you are afraid of, not actual terrorists) rights, you lose your own as well. Freedom is not political correctness, it is about human rights and what so many people have died to protect for our nation.
quote:Originally posted by wwjesuslaughat:
The people in that article were not paranoid, they were observant, and it seems rightfully so.
Actually, the woman that wrote the article made the story up. The truth is that some Syrian musicians were travelling together to play at a hotel. They took turns getting up to pee, they talked to each other since they knew each other, and flew on an airplane. Nothing more, nothing less.
quote:Originally posted by wwjesuslaughat:
Richard Reid, "the shoe-bomber" was stopped by observant passengers, who had to hold him down and physically stop him from trying to kill them.
Richard Reid is a British guy, not an Arab, and if he had shaved his face and cut his hair, he would have blended in perfectly and many people would have died as a result. I don't know if you've seen the videos of the 9/11 hijackers who were forced to go through extra security, but in those photos they look like respectable average guys, which was their camoflauge. It's not easy to spot a terrorist because they come from all sorts of nationalities, religions, etc. I wouldn't feel any better knowing that my loved ones were killed by a white Christian American veteran like Timothy McVeigh than I would by an arab Muslim Saudi terrorist like Mohammad Atta. What bothers me is that while we're all fearful of sikhs or whatever, al Qaeda will have convinced some blond haired blue eyed guy with khakis and a polo shirt to hijack a plane and crash it into something.
quote:Originally posted by wwjesuslaughat:
The annoying gnats are hell-bent on killing themselves and whoever else to further their cause. We have to continue to be observant, be sharp, speak up, and not be afraid. I won't give these people any place in my life but I also won't give them my life.
We have to take away their motivation to attack us, and we have to take the personal responsibility to fight back if they come after us. There's nothing else we can do, and there's no reason to dwell on it. However, we can't let our desire to do something and our fear drive us to make stupid choices that go against what our country stands for. Without freedom, what is there left to protect?
quote: the woman that wrote it is a manipulator who is simply trying to make herself famous. Roll Eyes
How did you find this out? I'd like to know some of your sources - this way - I'm not only reading words, I'm understanding the intent behind them. That would save me a whole lotta trouble.
Well, here is another one on the same subject (sorry that it is from the Washington Times rather than the Post, but I don't think it is overly political):
Flight crews and air marshals say Middle Eastern men are staking out airports, probing security measures and conducting test runs aboard airplanes for a terrorist attack.
At least two midflight incidents have involved numerous men of Middle Eastern descent behaving in what one pilot called "stereotypical" behavior of an organized attempt to attack a plane.
"No doubt these are dry runs for a terrorist attack," an air marshal said.
Pilots and air marshals who asked to remain anonymous told The Washington Times that surveillance by terrorists is rampant, using different probing methods.
"It's happening, and it's a sad state of affairs," a pilot said.
A June 29 incident aboard Northwest Airlines Flight 327 from Detroit to Los Angeles is similar to a Feb. 15 incident on American Airlines Flight 1732 from San Juan, Puerto Rico, to New York's John F. Kennedy Airport.
The Northwest flight involved 14 Syrian men and the American Airlines flight involved six men of Middle Eastern descent.
"I've never been in a situation where I have felt that afraid," said Annie Jacobsen, a business and finance feature writer for the online magazine Women's Wall Street who was aboard the Northwest flight.
The men were seated throughout the plane pretending to be strangers. Once airborne, they began congregating in groups of two or three, stood nearly the entire flight, and consecutively filed in and out of bathrooms at different intervals, raising concern among passengers and flight attendants, Mrs. Jacobsen said.
One man took a McDonald's bag into the bathroom, then passed it off to another passenger upon returning to his seat. When the pilot announced the plane was cleared for landing and to fasten seat belts, seven men jumped up in unison and went to different bathrooms.
Her account was confirmed by David Adams, spokesman for the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement's Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS), who said officers were on board and checked the bathrooms several times during the flight, but nothing was found.
"The FAMS never broke their cover, but monitored" the activity, Mr. Adams said. "Given the facts, they had no legal basis to take an enforcement action. But there was enough of a suspicious nature for the FAMS, passengers and crew to take notice."
A January FBI memo says suicide terrorists are plotting to hijack trans-Atlantic planes by smuggling "ready-to-build" bomb kits past airport security, and later assembling the explosives in aircraft bathrooms.
On many overseas flights, airlines have issued rules prohibiting loitering near the lavatory.
"After seeing 14 Middle Eastern men board separately (six together and eight individually) and then act as a group, watching their unusual glances, observing their bizarre bathroom activities, watching them congregate in small groups, knowing that the flight attendants and the pilots were seriously concerned and now knowing that federal air marshals were on board, I was officially terrified," Mrs. Jacobsen said.
"One by one, they went into the two lavatories, each spending about four minutes inside. Right in front of us, two men stood up against the emergency exit door, waiting for the lavatory to become available. The men spoke in Arabic among themselves ... one of the men took his camera into the lavatory. Another took his cell phone. Again, no one approached the men. Not one of the flight attendants asked them to sit down."
In an interview yesterday with The Washington Times, Mrs. Jacobsen said she was surprised to learn afterward that flight attendants are not trained to handle terrorist attacks or the situation that happened on her flight.
"I absolutely empathize with the flight attendants. They are acting with no clear protocol," she said.
Other passengers were distraught and one woman was even crying as the events unfolded.
The plane was met by officials from the FBI, Los Angeles Police Department, Federal Air Marshal Service and Transportation Security Administration. The Syrians, who were traveling on one-way tickets, were taken into custody.
The men, who were not on terrorist watch lists, were released, although their information and fingerprints were added to a database. The group had been hired as musicians to play at a casino, and the booking, hotel accommodations and return flight to New York from Long Beach, Calif., also checked out, Mr. Adams said.
"We don't know if it was a dry run, that's why we are working together with intelligence and investigative agencies to help protect the homeland," he said.
Mrs. Jacobsen, however, is skeptical the 14 passengers were innocent musicians.
"If 19 terrorists can learn to fly airplanes into buildings, couldn't 14 terrorists learn to play instruments?" she asked in the article.
The pilot confirmed Mrs. Jacobsen's experience was "terribly alike" what flight attendants reported on the San Juan flight.
He said there is "widespread knowledge" among crew members these probes are taking place.
A Middle Eastern passenger attempted to videotape out the window as the plane taxied on takeoff and, when told by a flight attendant it was not permitted, "gave her a mean look and stopped taping," said a written report of the San Juan incident by a flight attendant.
The group of six men sat near one another, pretended to be strangers, but after careful observation from flight attendants, it was apparent "all six knew each other," the report said.
"They were very careful when we were in their area to seem separate and pretended to be sleeping, but when we were out of the twilight area, they were watching and communicating," the report said.
The men made several trips to the bathroom and congregated in that area, and were told at least twice by a flight attendant to return to their seats. The suspicious behavior was relayed to airline officials in midflight and additional background checks were conducted.
A second pilot said that, on one of his recent flights, an air marshal forced his way into the lavatory at the front of his plane after a man of Middle Eastern descent locked himself in for a long period.
The marshal found the mirror had been removed and the man was attempting to break through the wall. The cockpit was on the other side.
The second pilot said terrorists are "absolutely" testing security.
"There is a great degree of concern in the airline industry that not only are these dry runs for a terrorist attack, but that there is absolutely no defense capabilities on a vast majority of airlines," the second pilot said.
Dawn Deeks, spokeswoman for the Association of Flight Attendants, said there is no "central clearinghouse" for them to learn of suspicious incidents, and flight crews are not told how issues are resolved.
She said a flight attendant reported that a passenger was using a telephoto lens to take sequential photos of the cockpit door.
The passenger was stopped, and the incident, which happened two months ago, was reported to officials. But when the attendant checked back last week on the outcome, she was told her report had been lost.
Recent incidents at the Minneapolis-St. Paul international airport have also alarmed flight crews. Earlier this month, a passenger from Syria was taken into custody while carrying anti-American materials and a note suggesting he intended to commit a public suicide.
A third pilot reported watching a man of Middle Eastern descent at the same airport using binoculars to get airplane tail numbers and writing the numbers in a notebook to correspond with flight numbers.
"It's a probe. They are probing us," said a second air marshal, who confirmed that Middle Eastern men try to flush out marshals by rushing the cockpit and stopping suddenly
This is a major topic right now on our local (Washington DC) talk radio station. Had a pilot for a "major airline" on as a guest and he provided confirmation that these things are happening more and more in recent months. (FWIW)
How did you find this out? I'd like to know some of your sources - this way - I'm not only reading words, I'm understanding the intent behind them. That would save me a whole lotta trouble.
A good place talking about it was an article on Salon.com (sorry, I haven't bookmarked the URL but I may be able to find it later.)
I'm with P-Mosh on this one all the way. That woman is an idiot looking to gain an audience and these days more than ever fearmongering is the way to do it.
I learned to recognize fearmongering over twelve years of observation in a pathetic cult and my BS meter goes beyond the red zone when I see something like this. I hit Google and/or the "what's new" page on Snopes and suspicions are generally confirmed.
If you're one of the thousands who's been sending this by e-mail, please read the articles first (and there are more; Google is your other friend) and be sure that what you're sending is accurate. I have seen ONE (1) fear-spreading e-mail that has proven to be true in my years of receiving them and that one had inaccuracies and exaggerations.
Amusing observation: Whenever I point out that the latest rumor or the most recent recycled rumor is untrue, whoever's spreading the fearladen crud inevitably asks me for proof. However, the offended party rarely has anything to show to back up the original story. Unfortunately, this story was printed in a "credible" place and was repeated enough that it does almost carry a whiff of reliability. It's the hysterical, exaggerated tone of the thing in the first place that sets off the alarm bells. I truly hope the woman who wrote that and her editor are hunting for new jobs because that was... irresponsible is the nicest word I can think of.
I KNOW that the Muslim Terroista are doing dry runs.
They have one ultimate goal. To kill all who do not worship the pagan allah god.
If I were a "flyer" and I saw more than 2,
yes TWO, middle eastern men, I would get off the plane and catch the next one.
But I don't fly.
I have way too much to accomplish now to allow some muslim bastard to kill me.
And yes they had expired visas and they were allowed to board the plane because we have to be NIIIIIICe to the muslim terrorists and their RELIIIIIGION of PEEEEEEEEEACE
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Tom Strange
I read that too Cowgirl! (were you lurking about at that other site?)
:D-->
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Cowgirl
Tom, You've lost me, I got it off some news site.
Cowgirl
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Tom Strange
OK then! nevermind! It is an interesting article... and thought provoking!
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Oakspear
Thanks, I'm flying next Saturday
:(-->
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Cowgirl
Sorry Oakspear, I'm flying with Northwest out of Detroit in a matter of weeks..............
Cowgirl
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Tom Strange
Cowgirl, print out a copy of this article and take it with you to the airport. If you see something going on, show them the article... if they don't do anything... you know what? take about 25 copies with you, if you see something suspicious, ask about it, and then pass out copies of the article! they'll have to do something!
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dmiller
Now if that was a banjo case the one brought on, I'd have declared them terrorists immediately!!!
:D--> 
:D-->
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searcher
Mr Mineta seems to think that it is better to risk having a plane blown up than to risk hurting the feelings of a few people.
Goes to show what sort of world this has become, hm?
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dmiller
Same thing happened in our country (I think it was) in the last year or so, but the "risk" happened to concern a few fish, versus humans.
Wildfire was happening, out West, and out of control. Planes were in place to scoop water out of lakes in the area, and dump the water on the fire. Enter -- local envirionmentalists.
There was a fish (endangered) living in the lake that the water was to be "scooped" from, and because of that, the planes were grounded.
Because of this action, the fish lived, while (I think) 8 humans died.
I, for one, would never think twice about the "public good" over that of a few individuals, or even fish -- for that matter.
You pegged it right -- this world is going to hell-in-a-hand-basket.
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dmiller
And for the record -- I used to be a firefighter with the Forest Service. I'm not "blowing smoke" about this here.
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oilfieldmedic
I fly 100,000+ miles a year, in & out of the Middle East...The food isn't bad either!
I SHALL not allow these people to dictate what I do and don't do...Fear will not rule my life.
side note:I have many muslim friends over here(there) and many of them feel the same way.
Live your life, trust God, heck...we're His!
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excathedra
my friends living their lives and going to work in the twin towers that day were "His" too
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Abigail
Securtiy gets to be a tricky business, eh? And it isn't just about hurting someone's feelings, it is also about who you hire and how well paid they are. Frequent "changing of the guard" would probably help as well.
Here's another true story.
The attorney I work for was in trial last week. This meant I too was in and out of the courthouse quite a few times.
The courthouse is supposed to be a secured building. You have to go through a metal detector and your purse and briefcase are scanned.
I don't even recall how many times I passed myself and my things through those scanners last week.
Well, it turns out, for most of those passes, I had a rather large pair of scissors in my brief case and no one caught it, though one guard almost did.
This past spring I had been making fliers for the boys' school and had put the scissors in my briefcase so I could cut the paper in half. I had forgotten about them.
The only reason I even found them this past Thursday was because after one of my trips through the scanner, while I was waiting for the elevator, I noticed the security guard was looking over the picture of the contents of my briefcase. He stopped and zoomed in on an image that looked like a knife. I knew it was my briefcase and I kind of wondered what it was I had in there that looked like that.
The security guard never did stop me or ask me to empty my briefcase. I got on the elevator and proceeded to the courtroom.
Later, when I went home, I emptied my briefcase to figure out what it was that had made that image on the scanner, and there the scissors were.
Kind of spooky to think I spent four days making numerous trips in and out of the courthouse with those scissors in my bag and no one stopped me.
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TheEvan
Dang, and I'm flying Northwest/KLM to Europe & on to Africa later this week!
You're right about security in Europe. They do a MUCH better job, are MUCH more thorough, and are at the same time, less intrusive than the TSA drones.
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imbus
That settles it... I'm walking.
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wwjesuslaughat
I've never been to NY, never seen the Twin Towers, and don't know anyone who died in the attack. I did make a trip to DC in Nov. 2001 and saw the Pentagon. That was enough to leave a lasting impression in my mind and heart for the rest of my life.
Part of the problem, I think, in dealing with terrorists, is that we want to deal with them on "American, civilized, everybody's got rights, politically correct" terms. They know that and they count on that. Terrorists (and I don't even like that term, it seems to give people of that mindset a sort of power and control and yes, even respect. Maybe we could call them annoying gnats) have absolutely no regard for human life, not their own, not anyone else's.
The people in that article were not paranoid, they were observant, and it seems rightfully so. Richard Reid, "the shoe-bomber" was stopped by observant passengers, who had to hold him down and physically stop him from trying to kill them. The annoying gnats are hell-bent on killing themselves and whoever else to further their cause. We have to continue to be observant, be sharp, speak up, and not be afraid. I won't give these people any place in my life but I also won't give them my life.
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krys
This story was just on the 5:00 o'clock news.
It turns out that all the men who were detained and questioned had expired visa from Syria.
They had expired visas......and they let them go!
Gimme a break!!!!
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Mister P-Mosh
These guys were a music group contracted by a hotel, and the woman that wrote it is a manipulator who is simply trying to make herself famous.
-->
There are plenty of real terrorists out there to deal with, we don't need hysterical morons inventing stories to make everyone scared.
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Mister P-Mosh
How else are we supposed to act? You have to understand that if you take away their (meaning the people you are afraid of, not actual terrorists) rights, you lose your own as well. Freedom is not political correctness, it is about human rights and what so many people have died to protect for our nation.
Actually, the woman that wrote the article made the story up. The truth is that some Syrian musicians were travelling together to play at a hotel. They took turns getting up to pee, they talked to each other since they knew each other, and flew on an airplane. Nothing more, nothing less.
Richard Reid is a British guy, not an Arab, and if he had shaved his face and cut his hair, he would have blended in perfectly and many people would have died as a result. I don't know if you've seen the videos of the 9/11 hijackers who were forced to go through extra security, but in those photos they look like respectable average guys, which was their camoflauge. It's not easy to spot a terrorist because they come from all sorts of nationalities, religions, etc. I wouldn't feel any better knowing that my loved ones were killed by a white Christian American veteran like Timothy McVeigh than I would by an arab Muslim Saudi terrorist like Mohammad Atta. What bothers me is that while we're all fearful of sikhs or whatever, al Qaeda will have convinced some blond haired blue eyed guy with khakis and a polo shirt to hijack a plane and crash it into something.
We have to take away their motivation to attack us, and we have to take the personal responsibility to fight back if they come after us. There's nothing else we can do, and there's no reason to dwell on it. However, we can't let our desire to do something and our fear drive us to make stupid choices that go against what our country stands for. Without freedom, what is there left to protect?
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krys
How did you find this out? I'd like to know some of your sources - this way - I'm not only reading words, I'm understanding the intent behind them. That would save me a whole lotta trouble.
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markomalley
Well, here is another one on the same subject (sorry that it is from the Washington Times rather than the Post, but I don't think it is overly political):
http://www.washtimes.com/national/20040721-101403-1508r.htmThis is a major topic right now on our local (Washington DC) talk radio station. Had a pilot for a "major airline" on as a guest and he provided confirmation that these things are happening more and more in recent months. (FWIW)
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Mister P-Mosh
A good place talking about it was an article on Salon.com (sorry, I haven't bookmarked the URL but I may be able to find it later.)
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Jason P
Snopes is your friend:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/skyterror.asp
Here's the Salon article P-Mosh mentioned, and it's good indeed:
http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2004/0.../askthepilot95/
Here's one from the National Review, not exactly a bastion of liberalism and/or terrorist coddling:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/taylor200407211921.asp
I'm with P-Mosh on this one all the way. That woman is an idiot looking to gain an audience and these days more than ever fearmongering is the way to do it.
I learned to recognize fearmongering over twelve years of observation in a pathetic cult and my BS meter goes beyond the red zone when I see something like this. I hit Google and/or the "what's new" page on Snopes and suspicions are generally confirmed.
If you're one of the thousands who's been sending this by e-mail, please read the articles first (and there are more; Google is your other friend) and be sure that what you're sending is accurate. I have seen ONE (1) fear-spreading e-mail that has proven to be true in my years of receiving them and that one had inaccuracies and exaggerations.
Amusing observation: Whenever I point out that the latest rumor or the most recent recycled rumor is untrue, whoever's spreading the fearladen crud inevitably asks me for proof. However, the offended party rarely has anything to show to back up the original story. Unfortunately, this story was printed in a "credible" place and was repeated enough that it does almost carry a whiff of reliability. It's the hysterical, exaggerated tone of the thing in the first place that sets off the alarm bells. I truly hope the woman who wrote that and her editor are hunting for new jobs because that was... irresponsible is the nicest word I can think of.
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valerie52
I dont' fly.
I KNOW that the Muslim Terroista are doing dry runs.
They have one ultimate goal. To kill all who do not worship the pagan allah god.
If I were a "flyer" and I saw more than 2,
yes TWO, middle eastern men, I would get off the plane and catch the next one.
But I don't fly.
I have way too much to accomplish now to allow some muslim bastard to kill me.
And yes they had expired visas and they were allowed to board the plane because we have to be NIIIIIICe to the muslim terrorists and their RELIIIIIGION of PEEEEEEEEEACE
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