How about the cleaning out of the pond at HQ in 1987? Thank GOD I wasn't in the corps, just on staff, so I didn't have to get into the stinking muck and mire!
Watered Garden, I know many people who played by the rules in preparation to go full time and were scr*w*d out of homes, jobs, businesses, etc. The really sad thing is many of these people still feel bad about not being "good enough" to be full time wc.
Linda, I heard that one of the advanced classes actually had "the privilege" of doing the same thing.
quote:And speaking of misrepresentation, with all due respect to the Cafe management, I have way more than 75 posts and did not "register" June 13 2002. I crossed over from WayDale. Whenvever that was. Whatever.
I have not misrepresented you, Catcup. You DID register on this board in 2002 about a week after it opened. You have barely posted in the past 18 months, so I think that number is probably accurate. You could always send a simple email to me, to find an answer to a question instead of publicly declaring a misrepresentation.
Paw... also, aren't PT posts counted in that total? And if you (Paw) have gone and 'cleaned out' the old garbage from our PT sections, the number of posts goes down? Isn't that correct?
Not that it matters to those who drink tea in China...
It's hard to make that change, When life and love turns strange. And old.
To give a love, you gotta live a love. To live a love, you gotta be "part of". When will I see you again?
Oh, and what do you do with this love of God? We run classes.
Hokay.
It's tough to get people to just mail in their cash without pretending to give them something worthwhile. Even if it's just hackneyed Bible teaching with no pastoral care, no organized mission work (that might give people's life some meaning outside of, well, running classes).
inject truth serum now:
"We sell easy answers that inflate your ego.
Soon, you can be telling your family and friends -- along with all of us -- our MOTTO:
I've got something you don't got and
I know things that you don't know."
Oh isn't it glorious?!
Fans, how often are they open with you about collections (amount and use)? Any reputable non-profit organization publishes it all for their supporters annually. Seen it? Warning: Fans, don't ask for this info. if you want to remain a Waybot in good-standing (so you can run classes, so you can stay in good standing, so you can run classes).
"I can tell how hot a person is spiritually by the amount of work he does in the physical realm" - Scammed us into busting our asses so as to appear spiritual.
"5 minuter of speaking in tongues is as restful as 8 hours of sleep" - Scammed us out of thousands of hours of sleep as we put in 20 hour days.
"God gives a man one big chance in life" - Scammed us into believing that if we walked away from TWI, we'd be walking away from the only big chance God would give us in our lifetime. I'm living proof that God gives a man more than one big chance.
"The only way the Word will move is with door-to-door witnessing" - Scammed us into pushing green cards like a bunch of Kirby salesmen.
Then later in our first year in residence, when they told us that The Way Corps was for training TWIG LEADERS.
When I signed up for The Way Corps, TWI represented to me that I would be training for upper leadership responsibilities that I had not yet held, and that when I graduated, I would hold an accredited degree.
TWI misrepresented The Way Corps program specifically to those of us who went into the 6th Corps, revealing only AFTER we were already in residence, that we would NOT have a recognized accredited degree, and that they were training us to be twig leaders.
[This message was edited by Catcup on March 07, 2004 at 13:20.]
TWI’s scams are actually too numerous to mention because corporate TWI is essentially one BIG scam with multiple mini-scams of which there are mini-mini-scams, etc.
TWI’s modus operandi consists of: fraud, misrepresentation, negligence, breach of fiduciary duties, strategically coordinated programs of covert coercive packaged persuasion, among others. I would consider it a form of ‘rape’ of the mind.
TWI is not a ‘ministry’ but is simply a corporate con for generating cash. It considers human casualties as the cost of doing cultic cornfield business.
One could go down WordWolf’s timeline in the TWLIW thread & almost every entry has a scam associated with it.
Several of my personal raw nerve scams are the cover-ups of 1986 & 1999.
In 1986, after the general distribution of POP & Schoenheit’s discourse on TWI’s institutionalized debauchery, corporate TWI made every attempt to conceal the numerous major problems it was having, most if not all originating in the first 4 items I just noted above. TWI made no attempts to ‘come clean’ with all that had been exposed.
In 1999, with the Allen & Parker lawsuits, it was gut-wrenching déjà vu. Corporate TWI made every effort to conceal the pertinent issues while practicing corporate-image damage control. No serious consideration of ‘coming clean’ or apologies was ever given by corporate TWI / Board of Directors to the rank & file member believers.
The WAY“MINISTRY” in actuality is nothing more than a cultic, racketeering scam with a thin veneer of Hermitically oriented, ‘ white-washed’ & ‘ redefined’ biblical terms. Quite probably The Way International has been involved with criminal activities as well. I have concluded that NO genuine, lasting virtue has come about due to the existence of TWI.
It did in fact between ~1967 to ~1972 attract some people who had a desire to serve God, but a critical mass of these people had been witnessed to by non-TWI people such as Jimmy Doop, Steve Heefner, Tim Wise, & Lonnie Frisbee. These movements were later invaded by narcissistic, megalomaniacal Wierwille. Then Wierwille-TWI essentially stole these people from those simple, grassroots ministries. In significant part due to the presence of Doop, Heefner, their followers, & the exuberance of their unmistakable presence, many of the PFAL classes of this time period generated a great excitement, much more so in spite of Wierwille rather than due to him & to his supposed original “research” (which was largely plagiarized).
Certain honest individuals, comprised of the Doop & Heefner derivatives as well as many who became involved via Wierwille’s PFAL series, were the pure-hearted people in our local areas that created the positive environment that appealed to the transient vulnerabilities of so many of us.
Then TWI, primarily via Wierwille & later Martindale, those despicable wolves in sheep’s clothing, surreptitiously ‘ taught & trained’ us by way of various exploitative, strategic programs, { via the PFAL series, the WOW program, the Fellowlaborers’ program, the in-residence College Division & Way Corps programs, & the WAP series, TWI-II, & many other scenarios} which were nothing more than strategically coordinated programs of covert packaged persuasion. These programs did not grant us release from our prisons for the most part in a permanent fashion, but rather corporate TWI’s coercive programs led us into mental enslavement.
The proceeds & benefits of these clandestine programs went not to the TWI-claimed beneficiaries, the rank-and-file members of TWI, but rather went to the TWI Board of Trustees & other high level TWI leadership for their own selfish interests. TWI ‘redefined’ & hence contaminated the supposed grace of God as a hook of vulnerability on the front side, only to later bait & switch it to oppressive hyper-legalism replete with TWI-exit phobia on the far side of the victimization.
This oppressive legalism (the supposed ‘teeth’ Wierwille began speaking of around 1967 to 1972) was originally most visible in the Way Corps in the 1970’s & early 1980’s, but in/after the Fall of 1995 with the advent of 'TWI-II,' when L. Craig Martindale began his ‘mark & avoid’- enforced extreme obedience & loyalty demands (among many other abusive & harmful tactics), the end result for those of us who in good faith held out to the bitter end, is that we have essentially nothing of enduring significance to show for our TWI servitude except for the psychological & emotional wounds (damages) with which TWI has so disgracefully left us. This does not even begin to account for all of our good-faith financial contributions (tithing & abundant sharing) & our irreversibly lost time (both economic & emotional equivalents implied) stolen from us during our affiliation with TWI.
All you say is true...what amazes me is that it could appear so wholesom....that the methods in which we were trained to ignore our feelings and desires ....substituting ministry goals for our own, all were presented in a way that made us feel so noble about what we were doing....
I am amazed at how in just a few weeks after becoming involved, I was able to entirely close out the deep concernes of my family annd life long friends....In just a few short weeks, I completely changed my lifes direction....ie college and the military.
It amazes me what they were able to convince me that God required of my life.
I remain agahst at what I did believing it to be the requirement of God.
jkboehme, it helps to understand how they accomplished this, that there is a identifiable process....Thankyou.
"TWI is not a ‘ministry’ but is simply a corporate con for generating cash. It considers human casualties as the cost of doing cultic cornfield business."
I thought this line would bear repeating. Well said...
I couln't resist copying HCW's excellent post from the Geer thread because it seems pertinent in this thread as well.
TWI tried to cover up what POP did shake out of the bushes. But the problem at the time was, what info from POP was accurate? The TWI BOT would not come clean in order to clarify, qualify, or apologize. Later martinpuke taught the Galatians Leadership tapes, blaming the 'd.s.' in Geer as the cause of the upheaval. King Oakie Martinpuke never publically took responsibility for any of his multiple, profound failures
Per HCW:
Chris was considered to be one of the top guys, arguably THE top guy, in what was the consensus "best" group of WC ever at the time. He earned the position as VPW valet and driver. He succeeded Howard Allen (VP's best friend) in that position. It was inevitable that CG and VP would become close. He spent more time w/VPW than anyone, even Mrs. Chris is the type of guy that people generally either like him or hate him.
Water cooler talk about CG was that some didn't like his "superior attitude." In my experience w/ him I found him to be a little formal for most people's taste. Where HA was like VP's buddy who drove him around CG was like "Alfred", Batman's butler. My east coast attitude wasn't fazed by his being a little curt at times. He didn't have a problem telling folks no, he'd just look you in the the eye and say things that maybe you didn't want to hear. Plus he didn't seem to care or be fazed at all if you didn't like him. That itself didn't do much to endear people to him. Basically everone respected him though.
The Trustees approved of CG's presentation of POP. LCM even introduced him as their guest and acknowledged that they were aware of the content of the document. He said they agreed unanimously that the content contained therein was true and that the accounts mentioned were factual representations of the events. They went into some detail to confirm that VP and Chris were, in fact together during the times mentioned. All of us who were on staff at HQ at the time were aware that VP was away but we didn't know where he was, which was unusual we "always" knew VP's inerary and in the old days we'd actually get off work to line the driveway to welcome him home.
They didn't buy into POP because of being manipulated in CG's coup attempt. They said, "We are signing our names to this document to confirm it as being true and our signatures represent our commitment as a united Board of trustees to turn the ministry back toward God."
The "famous leaders meetings" were where they exposed and discussed in detail the events and attitudes referred to in POP. It wasn't about nebulous worldly behavior. It was supposedly names, dates, activities, etc. all undeniable evidence that the trustees were up to no good. I say supposedly only because I didn't attend the leaders meetings. Dept. Coordinators and trustee cabinet members did. They were told to take notes and relate what was said to us staff because we didn't want to shut HQ down so everyone coud attend.
My dept Coordinator admittedly wimped out and refused to tell us all of the details. He said it was too personally shocking for him to repeat and that it should suffice for us that what Chris said was true and that the trustees had done "some really bad stuff." This P,O'ed me, of course. I wanted to know everything. I felt that if they had done some criminal stuff they should fry for it. He said "the word says we shouldn't take believers to court. I said B.S! We argued, I lost.
During the POP fallout, "everybody who was anybody" in the ministry went to Gartmore and they ALL came back singing the praises of CG and how God lived there like He once did at HQ. They shared at night owls, Sunday AM fellowships, hoot owls etc, ad nausium of how they had forgotten what living in the presence of God felt like and how it had eroded from HQ and how HQ had become "cold and corporate."
LCM said stuff like that too. I got sick of hearing of how bad I was and how I had turned away from God with their blanket reasoning. I was like "speak for yourself," you jerk. Don't accuse ME of the crap you've somehow been blind to in your own life and had to fly accross the darn ocean to "see."
Point being that CG had an endorsement that went WAY beyond LCM. Literally hundreds of top leadership heard the crap, confirmed the BS, and endorsed CG. It was well after literally hundreds of HQ staff were fired and about 75% of active WC had voluntarily left TWI when we refused to swear allegiance to LCM and the BOT, as opposed to GOD and Jesus Christ... basically EVERYONE who would stand up and call LCM a liar to his face was GONE from the ministry when LCM declared Chris to be possessed with general level devil spirits and a manipulator of a regiment of spirits who decieved him, them and everyone who agreed that POP was true.
I'm not defending Chris, but LCM HAD to villify him in the worst of ways to salvage his Presidency. There were people left on staff who had sworn his allegience, WC on the field and rank & file believers who knew of his endorsement of Cg and confirmation of Chris' allegations of trustee wrongdoings including the ATTEMPTED MURDER of Ricardo Caballero. I was up front at Corps week with my camera, as usual, when CG came in, interrupted the goings on and busted them with...
"You not only have NOT turned back to God, You haven't even attempted to... AND you've covered up your activities. You have sabotauged (sp?) the efforts of the new trustees to set things straight and even made things WORSE than they were. There has even been an attempted murder that General Caballero had to dispatch a military unit to safe the life of the target!..."
The BOT admitted to THAT too, right there, main stage during Corps week in front of about 8,000 WC. (About 7,950 of whom are now M&A.)
I don't know for a fact that CG wasn't trying to sieze "the throne" of TWI. I do know he already had the "throne" in Europe. He was the leader of the second "trunk" in what was generally considered to be the place where God had turned his favor to. The trunk of Europe was supposedly unaffected bu the BOT's transgressions, as was the work in Africa and South America which was continuing to grow at rates like the US had grown. They were seeing book of Acts types of signs miracles amd wonders all over TWI ministries in Zaire and where Ricardo lived in South America. While the US growth had leveled off they were still on a steady upwards path.
I don't know what CG's doing these days. I know that Ricardo C. and Johnny T. both resigned from the BOT after throwing their hands up. If CG was only a power mad A-hole, there still were events that occurred, people that were hurt that he gave factual accounts of. I, for one am glad he tore the lid off the sucka.
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Linda Carter
How about the cleaning out of the pond at HQ in 1987? Thank GOD I wasn't in the corps, just on staff, so I didn't have to get into the stinking muck and mire!
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JustThinking
UR,
I once extended that metaphor to death by saying "Christ's kidneys behind our kidneys", etc. Local leadership wasn't amused. :-)
If you keep going with other body parts, it gets kind of creepy.
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insurgent
Watered Garden, I know many people who played by the rules in preparation to go full time and were scr*w*d out of homes, jobs, businesses, etc. The really sad thing is many of these people still feel bad about not being "good enough" to be full time wc.
Linda, I heard that one of the advanced classes actually had "the privilege" of doing the same thing.
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pawtucket
I have not misrepresented you, Catcup. You DID register on this board in 2002 about a week after it opened. You have barely posted in the past 18 months, so I think that number is probably accurate. You could always send a simple email to me, to find an answer to a question instead of publicly declaring a misrepresentation.
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Tom Strange
Paw... also, aren't PT posts counted in that total? And if you (Paw) have gone and 'cleaned out' the old garbage from our PT sections, the number of posts goes down? Isn't that correct?
Not that it matters to those who drink tea in China...
It's hard to make that change, When life and love turns strange. And old.
To give a love, you gotta live a love. To live a love, you gotta be "part of". When will I see you again?
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Juan Cruz
"TWI SCAMS"
Isn't that like:
Department of Sanitation -trash collection?
IRS -tax collection?
Grocery store -food sales?
Department of Correction -prisoner room & board?
Schools -education?
Ebay - on-line auctions?
Hollywood -movies?
TWI, why do you run classes?
TWI, why do you organize home fellowships?
Tell them, won't you Willy?
"Because that's where the money is."
No! Because that's how we spread the love of God.
Oh, and what do you do with this love of God? We run classes.
Hokay.
It's tough to get people to just mail in their cash without pretending to give them something worthwhile. Even if it's just hackneyed Bible teaching with no pastoral care, no organized mission work (that might give people's life some meaning outside of, well, running classes).
inject truth serum now:
"We sell easy answers that inflate your ego.
Soon, you can be telling your family and friends -- along with all of us -- our MOTTO:
I've got something you don't got and
I know things that you don't know."
Oh isn't it glorious?!
Fans, how often are they open with you about collections (amount and use)? Any reputable non-profit organization publishes it all for their supporters annually. Seen it? Warning: Fans, don't ask for this info. if you want to remain a Waybot in good-standing (so you can run classes, so you can stay in good standing, so you can run classes).
"Get a new plan, Stan."
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Jim
"I can tell how hot a person is spiritually by the amount of work he does in the physical realm" - Scammed us into busting our asses so as to appear spiritual.
"5 minuter of speaking in tongues is as restful as 8 hours of sleep" - Scammed us out of thousands of hours of sleep as we put in 20 hour days.
"God gives a man one big chance in life" - Scammed us into believing that if we walked away from TWI, we'd be walking away from the only big chance God would give us in our lifetime. I'm living proof that God gives a man more than one big chance.
"The only way the Word will move is with door-to-door witnessing" - Scammed us into pushing green cards like a bunch of Kirby salesmen.
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Tom Strange
Jim... OR the 'big chance' God gave you was getting out!
It's hard to make that change, When life and love turns strange. And old.
To give a love, you gotta live a love. To live a love, you gotta be "part of". When will I see you again?
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Jim
Good point.
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pfalbmo
ouch
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WordWolf
I thought it was time for another trip down Amnesia Lane...
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jkboehme
TWI’s scams are actually too numerous to mention because corporate TWI is essentially one BIG scam with multiple mini-scams of which there are mini-mini-scams, etc.
TWI’s modus operandi consists of: fraud, misrepresentation, negligence, breach of fiduciary duties, strategically coordinated programs of covert coercive packaged persuasion, among others. I would consider it a form of ‘rape’ of the mind.
TWI is not a ‘ministry’ but is simply a corporate con for generating cash. It considers human casualties as the cost of doing cultic cornfield business.
One could go down WordWolf’s timeline in the TWLIW thread & almost every entry has a scam associated with it.
Several of my personal raw nerve scams are the cover-ups of 1986 & 1999.
In 1986, after the general distribution of POP & Schoenheit’s discourse on TWI’s institutionalized debauchery, corporate TWI made every attempt to conceal the numerous major problems it was having, most if not all originating in the first 4 items I just noted above. TWI made no attempts to ‘come clean’ with all that had been exposed.
In 1999, with the Allen & Parker lawsuits, it was gut-wrenching déjà vu. Corporate TWI made every effort to conceal the pertinent issues while practicing corporate-image damage control. No serious consideration of ‘coming clean’ or apologies was ever given by corporate TWI / Board of Directors to the rank & file member believers.
:unsure: :blink:
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rascal
All you say is true...what amazes me is that it could appear so wholesom....that the methods in which we were trained to ignore our feelings and desires ....substituting ministry goals for our own, all were presented in a way that made us feel so noble about what we were doing....
I am amazed at how in just a few weeks after becoming involved, I was able to entirely close out the deep concernes of my family annd life long friends....In just a few short weeks, I completely changed my lifes direction....ie college and the military.
It amazes me what they were able to convince me that God required of my life.
I remain agahst at what I did believing it to be the requirement of God.
jkboehme, it helps to understand how they accomplished this, that there is a identifiable process....Thankyou.
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And people wonder why I am so cynical and harsh towards towards twi ?...
...It's one thing to be a con artist and scam people...but it falls into another "category" when you do it in God's name.
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George Aar
JK Boehme, re:
"TWI is not a ‘ministry’ but is simply a corporate con for generating cash. It considers human casualties as the cost of doing cultic cornfield business."
I thought this line would bear repeating. Well said...
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jkboehme
I couln't resist copying HCW's excellent post from the Geer thread because it seems pertinent in this thread as well.
TWI tried to cover up what POP did shake out of the bushes. But the problem at the time was, what info from POP was accurate? The TWI BOT would not come clean in order to clarify, qualify, or apologize. Later martinpuke taught the Galatians Leadership tapes, blaming the 'd.s.' in Geer as the cause of the upheaval. King Oakie Martinpuke never publically took responsibility for any of his multiple, profound failures
Per HCW:
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