quote: I always thought it was pretty stupid the way Wierwille inserted the 'K' sound when there were two consecutive vowels: exogekomai, pleroko, for exe¯geomai, pleroo¯.
I always pronounced "exegeomai" as ex-ayh-gay-oh-my, and "pleroo" as play-raw-oh.
Shoulda gone corps, and learned coy-rect pro-noun-see-ation. --> :D-->
quote: I always thought it was pretty stupid the way Wierwille inserted the 'K' sound when there were two consecutive vowels: exogekomai, pleroko, for exe¯geomai, pleroo¯.
I always pronounced "exegeomai" as ex-ayh-gay-oh-my, and "pleroo" as play-raw-oh.
Shoulda gone corps, and learned coy-rect pro-noun-see-ation. --> :D-->
Man, that really got on my nerves. I kept checking in my first pfal to make
sure I was reading correctly, since I kept missing the "k" in
"exegeomai" when he said it. Every time, I kept picturing that little
lizard that's now doing commercials. Except I pictured him with a red tinge
You're right, Oak. A short course in Koin?reek showed me that. How come I could figure it out in 2 months, and Wierwille couldn't learn it in YEARS? Wierwille got it wrong, over and over again. He couldn't even READ the thing, and we were supposed to trust his ability to make sense of it?
Not that I'm an authority on it by any means, but some vowels in Greek have an accent mark to indicate a "rough" breathing, which is kind of equivalent to adding an "H" before it. The pronouns ho and hos look like "o" and "os". Rough breathing is used for some adjacent vowels to show they don't join into a diphthong. That's why pleroo is three syllables and doesn't rhyme with "Peru".
Wierwille was probably trying to over-enunciate the rough "h" so much that he mangled it into a "k" sound.
I taught Greek to a lot of folks and correct Greek pronunciation is important to me. It is just like being able to pronounce other Biblical names, etc. without stumbling over them. (If you intend to teach a passage containing Biblical names, practice them ahead of time so you can pronounce them accurately without stumbling over them.) If you are able to pronounce them correctly, it lends to your credibility. (Although, of course, one could murder the correct pronounciation and still be more accurate on the correct application of a Greek word than someone who pronounced it perfectly, and vice versa...)
The most common mispronounciation mistake is to try to pronounce Greek words the way that Americans would. Usually diphthongs (combinations of vowels, or thongs that diphths thing) suffer the most.
The pleroo thing is different. Zix, that insertion of an H for a "rough breathing" only applies at the beginning of words or with a doubled r (rho) in the middle of a word. What we have with pleroo is what is referred to as a "glottal stop". This is where one should separate the pronounciation of the two vowels as two separate sounds. Pleroo actually ends with an omicron (short o) and an omega (long o) in Greek, and because the English equivalent may not be represented by a long mark over the final o, some might be inclined to pronounce it with an oo sound like in the word loose. But it is actually two sounds like ah-oh.
Exegeomai is made up of ex plus hegeomai, but there should be no h sound between the x and e, but there is a glottal stop between the e and o. As a rule of thumb, if the vowel combination is a valid diphthong, it should usually be pronounced as a single sound. If it is not a diphthong, the vowels should be separated by a glottal stop.
The Greek diphthongs are the vowels plus i or u as follows:
ai = ai as in aisle
au = au as in sauerkraut
ei = ei as in eight
eu = eu as in feud
oi = oi as in oil
ou = ou as in group
ui - ui as in suite
all other vowel combinations should be pronounced as two separate vowel sounds. I hope this helps you keep your vowels loose and not become consonated...
wow geek! thanks... I guess that's why "it's Greek to me"...
and Golfie, pronouncing 'wash' as 'warsh' is just a midwest thing... my Mom (who grew up in small town Kansas) still pronounces it that way and she's got a degree from a legitimate university!
yep Gek... for the most part... except when he was trying to impress us with his "rich German heritage" and "learned advanced degrees"... in those cases he was just a showoff... and not a very good one... (IMO)
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imbus
It's all greek to me!
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dmiller
Imbus --
:D--> 
:D--> 
:D-->
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dmiller
Oak -- I remember that thing!!
Think I even had a copy of it one time -- but if I did then, I don't now.
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dmiller
I always pronounced "exegeomai" as ex-ayh-gay-oh-my, and "pleroo" as play-raw-oh.
Shoulda gone corps, and learned coy-rect pro-noun-see-ation.
--> 
:D-->
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WordWolf
Man, that really got on my nerves. I kept checking in my first pfal to make
sure I was reading correctly, since I kept missing the "k" in
"exegeomai" when he said it. Every time, I kept picturing that little
lizard that's now doing commercials. Except I pictured him with a red tinge
on his skin.
:)-->
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shazdancer
You're right, Oak. A short course in Koin?reek showed me that. How come I could figure it out in 2 months, and Wierwille couldn't learn it in YEARS? Wierwille got it wrong, over and over again. He couldn't even READ the thing, and we were supposed to trust his ability to make sense of it?
LOL about the K thing... so true, so irritating.
Regards,
Shaz
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Tom Strange
shaz? oak? you mean it's not pronounced "gek-om-etry" or "gek-og-ra-phy"???
oh... I feel like such a fool...
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George Aar
Tom Odd,
Re:"oh... I feel like such a fool..."
You? How about me, I'm such a devoted Wierwillite, I've been callling myself "Ge-korge" for years now.
Oh, the shame of it all...
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Tom Strange
aww... don't feel so bad Gek... at least we're in good company!
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Ham
It was my understanding that Wierwille pronounced
some of the words with a K because he could not
frame the word with the correct pronunciation, no
matter how hard he tried.
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WaywardWayfer
Kind of like pasgetti?
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Zixar
Not that I'm an authority on it by any means, but some vowels in Greek have an accent mark to indicate a "rough" breathing, which is kind of equivalent to adding an "H" before it. The pronouns ho and hos look like "o" and "os". Rough breathing is used for some adjacent vowels to show they don't join into a diphthong. That's why pleroo is three syllables and doesn't rhyme with "Peru".
Wierwille was probably trying to over-enunciate the rough "h" so much that he mangled it into a "k" sound.
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dmiller
That would be typical for a man from "OKIO".
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Research Geek
Hi everybody.
I taught Greek to a lot of folks and correct Greek pronunciation is important to me. It is just like being able to pronounce other Biblical names, etc. without stumbling over them. (If you intend to teach a passage containing Biblical names, practice them ahead of time so you can pronounce them accurately without stumbling over them.) If you are able to pronounce them correctly, it lends to your credibility. (Although, of course, one could murder the correct pronounciation and still be more accurate on the correct application of a Greek word than someone who pronounced it perfectly, and vice versa...)
The most common mispronounciation mistake is to try to pronounce Greek words the way that Americans would. Usually diphthongs (combinations of vowels, or thongs that diphths thing) suffer the most.
The pleroo thing is different. Zix, that insertion of an H for a "rough breathing" only applies at the beginning of words or with a doubled r (rho) in the middle of a word. What we have with pleroo is what is referred to as a "glottal stop". This is where one should separate the pronounciation of the two vowels as two separate sounds. Pleroo actually ends with an omicron (short o) and an omega (long o) in Greek, and because the English equivalent may not be represented by a long mark over the final o, some might be inclined to pronounce it with an oo sound like in the word loose. But it is actually two sounds like ah-oh.
Exegeomai is made up of ex plus hegeomai, but there should be no h sound between the x and e, but there is a glottal stop between the e and o. As a rule of thumb, if the vowel combination is a valid diphthong, it should usually be pronounced as a single sound. If it is not a diphthong, the vowels should be separated by a glottal stop.
The Greek diphthongs are the vowels plus i or u as follows:
ai = ai as in aisle
au = au as in sauerkraut
ei = ei as in eight
eu = eu as in feud
oi = oi as in oil
ou = ou as in group
ui - ui as in suite
all other vowel combinations should be pronounced as two separate vowel sounds. I hope this helps you keep your vowels loose and not become consonated...
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Oakspear
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Golfie
Thanx Geek.
Why did VP pronounce problem as "problen",
God as "Gawd", wash as "warsh"?
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JustThinking
Why Golfie, for the glowry of Gawd, of course!
JT
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Tom Strange
wow geek! thanks... I guess that's why "it's Greek to me"...
and Golfie, pronouncing 'wash' as 'warsh' is just a midwest thing... my Mom (who grew up in small town Kansas) still pronounces it that way and she's got a degree from a legitimate university!
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George Aar
How about "bidness" instead of "business",
or "athalete" for "athlete", or a gazillion others.
Ohio accent or hillbilly?
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Tom Strange
yep Gek... for the most part... except when he was trying to impress us with his "rich German heritage" and "learned advanced degrees"... in those cases he was just a showoff... and not a very good one... (IMO)
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JustThinking
George,
How about LCM saying "Hover" with a long "O" sound? As in "the spirit hoavered..."
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WordWolf
The one that bothered me least was "gaught" as in
"what to do with it after you've gaught it."
The one that bothered me most was
"hexegeckomai", which I thought involved a 6-sided lizard or something.
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JustThinking
Is it my imagination or are we saying even their command of ENGLISH wasn't very good?!
JT
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JustThinking
Martindale
Ought to
Go
Find
One
Dictionary
And
Try it.
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