When I was new in twi, we had WOWs come to our area. I loaned one family some old furniture, and 16-pc service of dishes, glasses, etc. with the understanding that they were to "steward" it for a year and return it to me. At the end of the year, I got the furniture ok, but only about 3 plates and 2 glasses back. I was like, "Where's my stuff?" and they were like, "That's it." I couldn't believe it... how can four people lose or destroy that much stuff in less than a year's time???? And it wasn't as if it had been fragile, dainty glass... it was regular ol' durable family dishware. Geez. I had to explain to the family members who had given it me that this SUPER religious group I was so excited about took lousy care of my stuff and no one cared or was gonna replace any of it. Nice.
And then, on my interim-corps year the state coord talked us into sending a newbie-grad out WOW. A gal who had been molested as a child, and who had developed a sexual addiction because of it. She wanted to become a better person; more in control of herself but didn't have a clue how to do it. We convinced her going WOW would be a big step in the right direction. (Can you say, holy crap!!!)
She was late arriving to the Rock because she stopped to have a fling with a trucker on the way there. She didn't last three months on the field before they cut her loose. Gave her no help. No guidance. No nothing. Just a boot out the door. Of all the people I did stupid things to, she is the one I feel the most guilty about.
So, while I wouldn't describe myself as ever being a corps-nazi, when I recall these types of happenings, I have to face up to the fact, as HWC has said... there was certainly a goodly amount of disconnect and willful blindness to what was going on around me... No, I wasn't a corps-nazi, but I was one of those "good little citizens" who enabled the nazi's to do what they did without stepping up to the plate and calling the foul.
Well, if it makes you feel even a little better, for some of us who did speak up and get into regular "disagreements" with our "leadership" it didn't usually matter. The problems were a lot bigger than a small number of voices.
Actually, after reading so many posts here of people who did speak up, I think there were quite a LOT of folks who did speak up, however enabling our behavior was the rest of the time.
quote:The W.O.W. program was an idiotic device designed to promote TWI and ultimately generate more income and bring more young girls into striking distance of the MOG and his minions.
The fact that people were put in untenable, or even downright dangerous situations couldn't have mattered less to them. They were getting theirs, and that's all that counted...
You know George;
Its really hard to argue against that point considering....
Y'all heard about the L.E.A.D accident? I've wondered for years what news hit the field concerning it. I was riding shotgun when it happened. For those who'd like to know, feel free to ask. Anyways....
My dear friend Rochelle Wajnb#%& was hit in the head w/ a piece of debris that sheared, I'd guess, about 30-40% of the skin from her skull. Although it was reattached and her hair eventually grew back, she was never quite the same after that. TWI paid for some, I repeat, only, some of our medical bills. Later that same year they NAZI'ed Rochelle out of the 11th Corps.... The ol' "you're not ready to graduate as Corps" WE have decided YOU will go LOA crap.
Within 24hrs of her leaving the campus, she was found dead in an Emporia motel... suicide.
How did they keep it out of the news? They DIDN'T TELL anybody. Not stuff like that. How many of us 11th knew about Rochelle? I found out directly from Don W. when I went to see him at the Trustee Apartment. My good friend January answered to door. (Thanks honey, you saved my life that night by doing that. I was just about to turn and walk away the moment before the door opened.)
I went to see Donnie because I felt I was being unfairly "NAZI'ed" out of the Corps. I told him, honestly and sincerely that I felt strongly in my heart like "things are closing in on me" and if I left the campus then, something would happen and I'd be killed. Plus. How could I NOT BE READY, after 3 more years of "training" go BACK to a job I'd already excelled in withOUT the "training.????"
He told me to sit down, January brought me something warm to drink and, he said sadly,
"I believe you son." He sighed a deep long sigh then said, "I need to tell you about your friend Rochelle...."
I recall Martindale blathering on about how if a person needed to be treated tenderly and needed to be healed...they should get the hell out of the corps and go to twig somewhere!
He often spoke of non-corps in a very disparaging way. Called them "part time believers", "spiritual hitch hikers" "cop outs", "too weak to really stand", etc, etc...It was clear that if you weren't corps, that Martindale looked at you as something less than what you were "supposed" to be. This attitude spread throughout all those who sat at the feet of loy and received spittle on their faces. This is the major reason why the corps became so cold hearted and nazi-like. They not only felt superior, but they felt that you were worthy of being trated like the "non-corps" that you were.
Wierwille institutionalized the "haves" and the "have nots", with all his nametags and titles...a pecking order that you didn't want to be at the bottom of. It was insideous and it was evil.
I've known Rochelle's brother for years and still cannot believe he's in a VP-worshipping splinter group.
Some of us on the field heard about Rochelle cuz we knew Al, but it was all very hush, hush about how she had died.
The accident at LEAD was mentioned on a SNS tape by LCM if I'm not mistaken - - but it was a blathering indictment of how unspiritual either the LEAD leadership or the corps folks involved were - - can't remember now.
Quote: I recall Martindale blathering on about how if a person needed to be treated tenderly and needed to be healed...they should get the hell out of the corps and go to twig somewhere!
Oh my... I remember him saying that... and I remember me thinking, "And if I needed healing and asked to bow out of corps training, you would be the first to tell me I wasn't believing God, and I was copping out on my commitment to be corps."
Jardinero-- thanks for the hugs! You are right, I've had the "what if I'd spoken up" debate with others here and it pretty much comes down do "damned if you do, damned if you don't" but at least those of you who spoke up know you tried.
PS---HWC, I too, would appreciate hearing the full story of the LEAD accident. I only vaguely remember it being mentioned, and blame being passed around. I was pretty new then and didn't pick up on things much.
HCW, I was a very good friend of RW. What they did to her was unconsionable. DW was not truthful. She did not have a guy in the room with her. She took her bottle of pain pills. She was thrown out of the corps, left with another guy, went to the limb of Indiana, they didn't want her around. She was supposed to drive east by herself to her brother's in CT. She was devasted. She had a history of suicide.
How they could chew her out, kick her out, then the limb let her go - boggles my mind. She got as far as Columbus, OH (the boy she dropped off at the Indiana limb was from KS). Since we were close, he told me the next year at the rock exactly what happened.
Anyway, she goes to the hotel right here on Rt. 33 and Grandview and committed suicide with her bottle of pain pills (she still had great pain from the LEAD accident) in room 34, I believe it was. I think of her everytime I see that place. There was an article about it in the Columbus Dispatch. My parents asked me about it.
If it makes you feel any better, when I learned the news, the next day after lunch I pulled MF (the corps coordinator aside), and asked him how he could have let her go like that? They knew her history. He didn't seem too perturbed. I was very angry, looked him in the eye and said, her blood is upon your head, and then walked away. He never would talk to me after that.
Yeah, but for us, the mess is over. Maybe we should count our blessings and walk away. Sart over. Not re-hash it. Let it slide onto the back burner so we can begin to rebuild, take care of the things in our lives that need attention, like our families and our loved ones...
We are out. We are not IN. That's good, not bad...Thank God that something we were involved with 10 years ago is something in the past, and not somethineg we are involved in in the present...
Oh man of maany languages, I am fairly certain most if not all of us realize we are no longer IN. And that we ARE thankful to be OUT. And also that we HAVE moved on, we HAVE rebuilt, we ARE taking care of our lives. Yes, the mess is indeed over. But I have NO PROBLEN reading these posts, hearing about other's "adventures in learning", and realizing the the majority of good-hearted believers were JUST LIKE US. We had our doubts, we had our suspicions. And you know what? WE WERE RIGHT. Our guts were true to us. That means we can trust our inner man, our OWN intuitions, our OWN evaluations. This builds SELF CONFIDENCE. And I believe this is a good thing. It's not an ego thing, to be used to glorify ones self. It can serve to direct those we are responsible for (family) toward a more authenic, rewarding and enriched life.
On the other hand, I agree we shouldn't DWELL on the negetive stuff. But that, I would assume, is obvious. Who the H*** has time to DWELL on this stuff?? I have a life to live. You know, people to see, places to go, things to do. But each one who reads these posts determines what is of value to him (all-inclusive noun).
I am not only thankful for, but entertained also(bullinger) by these our postings. May the fleas of one thousand camels infest the dwelling place of those who would thwart our liberty to "speak" via these threads.
Each one teach one, each one reach one, each one win one, each one have fun. Okie Dokie?
I see your point tomtuttle, but this is also a place for many to unload all that crap, and rehash it till it gets out of their system. And it can take some time to do that, months, even years to purge themselves and rid themselves of the effect of the abuse that they suffered.
To dwell on it, to search it out, to rid themselves of that slavery and bondage and abuse by talking it out.
Yes freedom to speak here and now finally at last in this little ole corner of the world called greasespotcafe.
quote:May the fleas of one thousand camels infest the dwelling place of those who would thwart our liberty to "speak" via these threads.
I agree! :D-->
Also, remember that there are still people who are IN reading these threads. Some have never heard this stuff before. Some still have questions. Some will be able to put the pieces together easier and better having the information, examples of our experiences and even banter to help them get OUT and enjoy a much better life like we do.
Some wc may need to know, also, that we've been where they are now and that it's never too late to apologize and that you don't have to go underground if you don't want to.
I agree Tom Tuttle. I guess I feel that some here just rehash the same old stuff over and over and continue to get "overly fired up" about stuff that they were "fired up" about many many moons ago. But I guess only God knows how much time it may take for a person to purge one's soul from the demons that harrass them. So, pardon me all of you all, I accept your admonishment Tom Tuttle..
quote:But I have NO PROBLEM reading these posts, hearing about other's "adventures in learning", and realizing that the majority of good-hearted believers were JUST LIKE US. We had our doubts, we had our suspicions. And you know what? WE WERE RIGHT. Our guts were true to us. That means we can trust our inner man, our OWN intuitions, our OWN evaluations. This builds SELF CONFIDENCE.
Tom-is there something bothering you about this place or what people say here? Seems like it. Just wondering, maybe someone here can help clear it up for you.
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excathedra
the cruelty of the corps program hurt me very much as a result i think i was kinder to others
alfakat
lesssee, watered garden, you were in Ft. Worth, right??? (I was in Albuquerque that same year) so I am thinkin' your wunnerful BC was a sewin' type o' gal, with a syrupy Southern accent and initials o
HCW
...It was. It DID happen A LOT. I'm thinking now that people being thrust into leadership roles they were not prepared for was more the norm than the exception. Even in "the old days" speak so fondly
TheHighWay
Whew!! You guys make me glad I never went WOW...
But I did have my share of WOW experiences...
When I was new in twi, we had WOWs come to our area. I loaned one family some old furniture, and 16-pc service of dishes, glasses, etc. with the understanding that they were to "steward" it for a year and return it to me. At the end of the year, I got the furniture ok, but only about 3 plates and 2 glasses back. I was like, "Where's my stuff?" and they were like, "That's it." I couldn't believe it... how can four people lose or destroy that much stuff in less than a year's time???? And it wasn't as if it had been fragile, dainty glass... it was regular ol' durable family dishware. Geez. I had to explain to the family members who had given it me that this SUPER religious group I was so excited about took lousy care of my stuff and no one cared or was gonna replace any of it. Nice.
And then, on my interim-corps year the state coord talked us into sending a newbie-grad out WOW. A gal who had been molested as a child, and who had developed a sexual addiction because of it. She wanted to become a better person; more in control of herself but didn't have a clue how to do it. We convinced her going WOW would be a big step in the right direction. (Can you say, holy crap!!!)
She was late arriving to the Rock because she stopped to have a fling with a trucker on the way there. She didn't last three months on the field before they cut her loose. Gave her no help. No guidance. No nothing. Just a boot out the door. Of all the people I did stupid things to, she is the one I feel the most guilty about.
So, while I wouldn't describe myself as ever being a corps-nazi, when I recall these types of happenings, I have to face up to the fact, as HWC has said... there was certainly a goodly amount of disconnect and willful blindness to what was going on around me... No, I wasn't a corps-nazi, but I was one of those "good little citizens" who enabled the nazi's to do what they did without stepping up to the plate and calling the foul.
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jardinero
Holy crap!
;)-->
Well, if it makes you feel even a little better, for some of us who did speak up and get into regular "disagreements" with our "leadership" it didn't usually matter. The problems were a lot bigger than a small number of voices.
((((((((TheHighway)))))))))
J.
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jardinero
Actually, after reading so many posts here of people who did speak up, I think there were quite a LOT of folks who did speak up, however enabling our behavior was the rest of the time.
J.
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HCW
And...
One more thing...
You know George;
Its really hard to argue against that point considering....
Y'all heard about the L.E.A.D accident? I've wondered for years what news hit the field concerning it. I was riding shotgun when it happened. For those who'd like to know, feel free to ask. Anyways....
My dear friend Rochelle Wajnb#%& was hit in the head w/ a piece of debris that sheared, I'd guess, about 30-40% of the skin from her skull. Although it was reattached and her hair eventually grew back, she was never quite the same after that. TWI paid for some, I repeat, only, some of our medical bills. Later that same year they NAZI'ed Rochelle out of the 11th Corps.... The ol' "you're not ready to graduate as Corps" WE have decided YOU will go LOA crap.
Within 24hrs of her leaving the campus, she was found dead in an Emporia motel... suicide.
How did they keep it out of the news? They DIDN'T TELL anybody. Not stuff like that. How many of us 11th knew about Rochelle? I found out directly from Don W. when I went to see him at the Trustee Apartment. My good friend January answered to door. (Thanks honey, you saved my life that night by doing that. I was just about to turn and walk away the moment before the door opened.)
I went to see Donnie because I felt I was being unfairly "NAZI'ed" out of the Corps. I told him, honestly and sincerely that I felt strongly in my heart like "things are closing in on me" and if I left the campus then, something would happen and I'd be killed. Plus. How could I NOT BE READY, after 3 more years of "training" go BACK to a job I'd already excelled in withOUT the "training.????"
He told me to sit down, January brought me something warm to drink and, he said sadly,
"I believe you son." He sighed a deep long sigh then said, "I need to tell you about your friend Rochelle...."
I spilled my drink.
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excathedra
poor rochelle, i'm so sorry
i would very much appreciate hearing your firsthand account of the LEAD accident, HCW
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GrouchoMarxJr
...And after Rochelle died, do you think any of them felt badly for booting her out?...In any way felt responsible?...HELL NO!
These so-called Christian leaders were about as uncaring and coldhearted as you can imagine...
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GrouchoMarxJr
I recall Martindale blathering on about how if a person needed to be treated tenderly and needed to be healed...they should get the hell out of the corps and go to twig somewhere!
He often spoke of non-corps in a very disparaging way. Called them "part time believers", "spiritual hitch hikers" "cop outs", "too weak to really stand", etc, etc...It was clear that if you weren't corps, that Martindale looked at you as something less than what you were "supposed" to be. This attitude spread throughout all those who sat at the feet of loy and received spittle on their faces. This is the major reason why the corps became so cold hearted and nazi-like. They not only felt superior, but they felt that you were worthy of being trated like the "non-corps" that you were.
Wierwille institutionalized the "haves" and the "have nots", with all his nametags and titles...a pecking order that you didn't want to be at the bottom of. It was insideous and it was evil.
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jardinero
I've known Rochelle's brother for years and still cannot believe he's in a VP-worshipping splinter group.
Some of us on the field heard about Rochelle cuz we knew Al, but it was all very hush, hush about how she had died.
The accident at LEAD was mentioned on a SNS tape by LCM if I'm not mistaken - - but it was a blathering indictment of how unspiritual either the LEAD leadership or the corps folks involved were - - can't remember now.
J.
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skyrider
In twi's twisted legalism........a strict obedience to going two-by-two
(at least) is DEMANDED.
Yet, if death occurs.............a twi follower dies ALONE.
ALWAYS......."the ministry be blameless" card is played. Sheeeeeeesh.
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TheHighWay
Quote: I recall Martindale blathering on about how if a person needed to be treated tenderly and needed to be healed...they should get the hell out of the corps and go to twig somewhere!
Oh my... I remember him saying that... and I remember me thinking, "And if I needed healing and asked to bow out of corps training, you would be the first to tell me I wasn't believing God, and I was copping out on my commitment to be corps."
Jardinero-- thanks for the hugs! You are right, I've had the "what if I'd spoken up" debate with others here and it pretty much comes down do "damned if you do, damned if you don't" but at least those of you who spoke up know you tried.
PS---HWC, I too, would appreciate hearing the full story of the LEAD accident. I only vaguely remember it being mentioned, and blame being passed around. I was pretty new then and didn't pick up on things much.
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Sunesis
HCW, I was a very good friend of RW. What they did to her was unconsionable. DW was not truthful. She did not have a guy in the room with her. She took her bottle of pain pills. She was thrown out of the corps, left with another guy, went to the limb of Indiana, they didn't want her around. She was supposed to drive east by herself to her brother's in CT. She was devasted. She had a history of suicide.
How they could chew her out, kick her out, then the limb let her go - boggles my mind. She got as far as Columbus, OH (the boy she dropped off at the Indiana limb was from KS). Since we were close, he told me the next year at the rock exactly what happened.
Anyway, she goes to the hotel right here on Rt. 33 and Grandview and committed suicide with her bottle of pain pills (she still had great pain from the LEAD accident) in room 34, I believe it was. I think of her everytime I see that place. There was an article about it in the Columbus Dispatch. My parents asked me about it.
If it makes you feel any better, when I learned the news, the next day after lunch I pulled MF (the corps coordinator aside), and asked him how he could have let her go like that? They knew her history. He didn't seem too perturbed. I was very angry, looked him in the eye and said, her blood is upon your head, and then walked away. He never would talk to me after that.
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tomtuttle
I am em-bare-assed to even be associated with the sub-human "corps" who do these things.
And I honestly thought I'd learn how to better HELP other people if I went into the corps.
Maybe naming names is not so bad after all. Don't they now publish and inform the public about sexual predators, who they are, where they live, etc.??
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skyrider
For reasons just like THAT.......many of those ex-region guys went underground.
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A la prochaine
Gaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwddddd what a f*cken mess!!
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J0nny Ling0
Yeah, but for us, the mess is over. Maybe we should count our blessings and walk away. Sart over. Not re-hash it. Let it slide onto the back burner so we can begin to rebuild, take care of the things in our lives that need attention, like our families and our loved ones...
We are out. We are not IN. That's good, not bad...Thank God that something we were involved with 10 years ago is something in the past, and not somethineg we are involved in in the present...
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tomtuttle
Oh man of maany languages, I am fairly certain most if not all of us realize we are no longer IN. And that we ARE thankful to be OUT. And also that we HAVE moved on, we HAVE rebuilt, we ARE taking care of our lives. Yes, the mess is indeed over. But I have NO PROBLEN reading these posts, hearing about other's "adventures in learning", and realizing the the majority of good-hearted believers were JUST LIKE US. We had our doubts, we had our suspicions. And you know what? WE WERE RIGHT. Our guts were true to us. That means we can trust our inner man, our OWN intuitions, our OWN evaluations. This builds SELF CONFIDENCE. And I believe this is a good thing. It's not an ego thing, to be used to glorify ones self. It can serve to direct those we are responsible for (family) toward a more authenic, rewarding and enriched life.
On the other hand, I agree we shouldn't DWELL on the negetive stuff. But that, I would assume, is obvious. Who the H*** has time to DWELL on this stuff?? I have a life to live. You know, people to see, places to go, things to do. But each one who reads these posts determines what is of value to him (all-inclusive noun).
I am not only thankful for, but entertained also(bullinger) by these our postings. May the fleas of one thousand camels infest the dwelling place of those who would thwart our liberty to "speak" via these threads.
Each one teach one, each one reach one, each one win one, each one have fun. Okie Dokie?
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CM
I see your point tomtuttle, but this is also a place for many to unload all that crap, and rehash it till it gets out of their system. And it can take some time to do that, months, even years to purge themselves and rid themselves of the effect of the abuse that they suffered.
To dwell on it, to search it out, to rid themselves of that slavery and bondage and abuse by talking it out.
Yes freedom to speak here and now finally at last in this little ole corner of the world called greasespotcafe.
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skyrider
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Belle
I agree!
:D-->
Also, remember that there are still people who are IN reading these threads. Some have never heard this stuff before. Some still have questions. Some will be able to put the pieces together easier and better having the information, examples of our experiences and even banter to help them get OUT and enjoy a much better life like we do.
Some wc may need to know, also, that we've been where they are now and that it's never too late to apologize and that you don't have to go underground if you don't want to.
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J0nny Ling0
I agree Tom Tuttle. I guess I feel that some here just rehash the same old stuff over and over and continue to get "overly fired up" about stuff that they were "fired up" about many many moons ago. But I guess only God knows how much time it may take for a person to purge one's soul from the demons that harrass them. So, pardon me all of you all, I accept your admonishment Tom Tuttle..
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skyrider
Thanks for speaking up, Tom.
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tomtuttle
Just taking care of mah twig, ya know??
SkyPilot, it is PROBLEN, not PROBLEM. Didn't you learn anything from the PLAF course???
Just read what is written. If it's wrong, Simon will tell you ...
Belle-dancer, bless your heart. I'm glad you agree with me. But what if it were God's will and you DIDN'T agree?
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CM
Tom-is there something bothering you about this place or what people say here? Seems like it. Just wondering, maybe someone here can help clear it up for you.
Peace
:)-->
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CM
Rehashing, smashing the same old stuff can help kill it off ya know, and help others too.
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