Why I reject belief in the Bible

[Mister P-Mosh]

quote:

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Originally posted by johniam:

In general: children are not innocent; they're inexperienced and relatively helpless, but not innocent.

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I believe that the verse which all of this stuff ended up being based on referenced babies specifically, at least those young enough to drink milk from their mothers.

While as a Christian you believe that people are born in sin, do you feel that it would ever be justified to mass-murder babies? I don't think you do, and that's more of what I am focused on than the verse where it talked about killing kids for calling a priest "baldy."

[Tom Strange]

Well johnyouare, you have a point there... now (for past indescretions) please go to your room and do one set of Renewing Your Mind retemories and one set of DWA retemories. OK? You'll be back in fellowship in no time.

[johniam]

PMosh:

quote:quote:

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Originally posted by johniam:

Refiner: There's no dual nature of God. The devil does all the mean stuff.

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However, Jehovah would have been responsible for both using his power to create Lucifer, as well as knowing that he would turn on him, yet doing nothing to prevent that. That makes Jehovah at least an accessory, if not directly responsible.

That's like saying I'm directly responsible for anything any of my kids does just because I fathered them.

[johniam]

PMosh:

quoteI believe that the verse which all of this stuff ended up being based on referenced babies specifically, at least those young enough to drink milk from their mothers.

While as a Christian you believe that people are born in sin, do you feel that it would ever be justified to mass-murder babies? I don't think you do, and that's more of what I am focused on than the verse where it talked about killing kids for calling a priest "baldy."

That thing with the she bears is covered in one of the orientalisms books. It was adults making fun of Elijah for worshipping God and the bears scared them only. Also, war is not murder. It is an extreme resort to solving diplomatic relations which actually works for the winner. If anyone is to be held accountable for war it's the Hitlers and Pol Pots and Sadaams who were already murdering and needed to be stopped. You're right. We don't think alike and a discussion can only go so far.

[excathedra]

raf, how do you know refiner posted what he posted just to see what the reaction is ?

that's what i started thinking last night and then realized how weird and paranoid i am, and then i felt bad about it

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johnnyam, in general children are not innocent, they inexperienced and relatively helpless, but not innocent

what do you mean ? sorry you might have explained it already. i'm replying before i finish reading all the posts

[excathedra]

quote:

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It's hard enough to see ex-TWI people rejecting Christ. It's a little harder, and I don't quite know how to explain it, to see someone with no TWI background come in here and, just to see what the reaction will be, attack a belief system we hold dear.

(P.S. Changing the thread title didn't help. We love our Bibles, too).

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what is the belief system "we" hold dear ?

and we love our bibles too ?

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sometimes i don't get how, your being in the way for, what was it, less than a year ? and you feel this extwi loyalty .....

i don't know quite how to explain (or rather, understand) that

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[Raf]

Do I really have to justify my belief that people start threads to see what the reaction will be?

quote:

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This logically, in my mind, extended over to an unwillingness to accept Jesus, as the Father and Son were the same entity, being a trinity.

This is why I do not accept Christ.

Can someone offer comment on these matters?

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Seeking reaction.

quote:

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Now as to TS saying that I "knew it would be inflammatory" , Ive thought on it and will conceed that he is right. I probably, (unconsciously mind) chose that title because i knew it would generate reads and lots of replies.

Fair enuff.

Im a bit inflammatory and have been in trouble online for it before.

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There's nothing wrong with seeking reactions.

[Raf]

quote:

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Originally posted by excathedra:

quote:

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It's hard enough to see ex-TWI people rejecting Christ. It's a little harder, and I don't quite know how to explain it, to see someone with no TWI background come in here and, just to see what the reaction will be, attack a belief system we hold dear.

(P.S. Changing the thread title didn't help. We love our Bibles, too).

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what is the belief system "we" hold dear ?

and we love our bibles too ?

--

sometimes i don't get how, your being in the way for, what was it, less than a year ? and you feel this extwi loyalty .....

i don't know quite how to explain (or rather, understand) that

.

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Excy, read the rest of my post before quoting it out of context and trying to make me sound like I was speaking for you.

quote:

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Everyone here was once a Christian. Some of us have held onto that and, speaking for myself, it hurts me to see people who once shared our faith now mock it or openly reject it. It's not easy, but it's also not my call. I'm sure other Christians here feel the same way.

It's hard enough to see ex-TWI people rejecting Christ. It's a little harder, and I don't quite know how to explain it, to see someone with no TWI background come in here and, just to see what the reaction will be, attack a belief system we hold dear.

(P.S. Changing the thread title didn't help. We love our Bibles, too).

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I was speaking as a Christian and trying to put voice to what other Christians feel, specifically those who are bothered by this thread. But I still think this thread should be here.

And I was in an offshoot for almost a decade, all right? Do I have your permission to be ex-TWI now?

[excathedra]

quote:

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That's like saying I'm directly responsible for anything any of my kids does just because I fathered them.

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i don't know there john, i'm not god and did not create all this crazy stuff to begin with. i don't have foreknowledge or whatever, i'm not perfect love, whatever, i don't know the past future etc etc.

i did like your amusement about mauling a new person

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[excathedra]

okay raf, i forgot

in the verse

in the context

used before

sowwy

and for your other post about refiner spelling out his own motives, i have to read that again

[Raf]

Sorry I'm being so testy.

[excathedra]

okay i think you mean it's fine to start a thread for reactions, which would be opinions ?

as far as the other, NO, you are an ex-ex-twi

[excathedra]

oh you're fine

but i was surprised when you told the new girl to stuff it

[Raf]

quote:

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Originally posted by excathedra:

as far as the other, NO, you are an ex-ex-twi

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As a grammar professor, I am obliged to notify you that you have technically placed me back in TWI.

An invitation I must happily decline. :)-->

[excathedra]

okay you don't have to go back

[Raf]

quote:

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Originally posted by excathedra:

okay i think you mean it's fine to start a thread for reactions, which would be opinions?

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Right. That's what I'm saying. I am ALSO saying that some people's reaction might be... bothered. Dot was bothered by this, as were some of the other Christians. Speaking only for myself, I was bothered but I concede that this forum is open for Refiner to voice whatever opinion he'd like to voice, even if (shudder) I don't like it. I'm not the judge who gets to decide what opinion gets posted, or who's entitled to post it. This is not a Christian forum.

[excathedra]

i'm bothered that some christians have to, for lack of a better word, protect their savior and god

[Refiner]

Het Raf. Do you think it is a forum that should be open to anyone who wants to post? Provided theyre polite? Even if say they are only interested in motor mechanics and movies.

Or do you think it should only be ex TWI?

Im curious.

[Refiner]

Actually if someone posted a thread asking that question Id be interested in the views.

But im not willing to post a thread starter at the moment.

[excathedra]

and why wouldn't you want to start a thread ?

[Raf]

Not my call.

[Refiner]

Het Raf, you must have an opinion, and im interested what it is.

exy, It has been said that I post too much and start too many threads. Ive decided this is true.

[johniam]

Exc: quote: johnnyam, in general children are not innocent, they inexperienced and relatively helpless, but not innocent

what do you mean ? sorry you might have explained it already. i'm replying before i finish reading all the posts

Some here say there is no God just because children got killed in the flood and in wars and stuff. My post was countering that.

[CKnapp3]

You know, I find all this bickering back and forth about "God is Good" vs "No God is not all Good", or "There is a God" vs "There is no God", etc, etc, etc, cheap entertainment. Now all you fellow skeptics listen up. Why waste your time arguing with these stupid narrow minded bigots? They are hell bent on their ideas and they think they are right and you are wrong. I also got involved in some heated arguements, not only here but also on the Usenet. But I started to get exhausted by the hard headedness of the people, besides I made my point, take it or leave it.

Garth, I agree with you. Why would we get upset over someone's notion that H20=water is a falsehood? We know the truth. I think these bigots are scared to death that they might actually be wrong, so they get on the defense. If they are so goddamn convinced, then let them walk in the truth and pay us no mind. I personally am not afraid to be wrong, and in many cases I hope I am wrong. But I don't respect the "in your face" attitude of many Christians. Why don't you Christians just believe what you will and let others believe what they will?

Hey guess what???? 2000 years from now people will believe in the resurrection of Elvis, while other's will say it was caca. They will also argue who really shot JFK. Jesus may just actually take a back seat at that point.

Well, I'm going to post this and continue reading this thread.

GO SKEPTICS!!!!!!!!!!! :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D--> :D-->

BOOOOOOOOO BELIEVERS!!!!!!!!!!!! :P--> :P--> :P--> :P--> :P--> :P-->

[The Girl From Oz]

quote:

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But I don't respect the "in your face" attitude of many Christians. Why don't you Christians just believe what you will and let others believe what they will?

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That would be too easy :)-->

Now, I used to be a firm believer in the Christian faith, because that is how I was brought up to be. I was also brought up to go door-knocking every Saturday morning to try to convert others to my faith. But even as a Christian, I didn't think it was right to be so "in your face" with others who didn't believe the same as you. And I still don't.

I believe that we should treat each other with respect. If I don't go preaching to Christians about alternative faiths, then why do Christians feel the need to preach to me? Or become so indignant when someone dares to question what they believe? As a Jw, I welcomed questions about my faith because I saw it as an opportunity to share my faith with others. But I only did that if I was asked. I didn't expect others to listen to me, whilst refusing to listen to others' points of view.