"Jean Luc Picard", a decidedly French name, but with a very nice, what is it Tref, a Scottish accent?"
I once worked for a guy: Pierre Flores. French first name, Spanish last name, he is a British Citizen [born and raised in the UK], and when I knew him a senior chief in the US Navy, serving in Italy.
Jean Luc does indeed have a classic RADA cultured accent. Why is a good question especially as I seem to remember a scene with his mother who speaks with a French accent.
No it's not a scottish accent Jonny though I expect Mr Stewart can do one, unlike "Scotty" (James Doohan) lol ;)-->
In fact several TNG cast members are Brits but they try to speak "merykan" :D--> .
just what exactly is RADA? Is that an acronym for something? Enlighten me please...
And Galen,
I can certainly see that in real life, but if the Next Generation bunch decided that the Captain of the Enterprise would have a very French sounding French name, then why the proper or RADa British accent?
Jean Luc does indeed have a classic RADA cultured accent. Why is a good question especially as I seem to remember a scene with his mother who speaks with a French accent.
Yup, sho nuff, and he called her "maman" (mah-maw, roughly) which is French for mama.
I had always assumed that most European folks who learned the English language would automatically learn it with a British accent, because of the nearness and colonialism of the Brits. I mean, before the world became the small place it is now, with everyone getting media from everyone else. I've met folks from India, Africa, etc. who certainly speak with a British accent. Am I wrong in my assumption?
Funny, I never noticed the different accents thing in STNG... didn't Jean Luc's brother have a French accent as well? I guess I have learned to expect a mix of accents in my movies. And I'd DEFINATELY rather listen to the wrong accent than a badly done one (aka Harrison Ford, etc.)
Does anyone know if Patrick Stewart's (Jean Luc) accent is natural or learned? I know he was trained as a Shakespearian performer. He may be one of those people who just don't have an ear for different accents. I can't remember ever seeing him in anything where he didn't sound like himself.
I saw him on a British interview show not too long ago, and he demonstrated his York accent and dialect for the audience, and he was nigh unintelligible.
I think we're confusing things with Harrison Ford:
Harrison Ford was TRYING to do a bad accent, and he succeeded. Indiana Jones (the character, not the actor) was TRYING to do a good accent, and failed. I don't fault Harrison Ford on that one. He did exactly what he was supposed to do.
Jean Luc does indeed have a classic RADA cultured accent. Why is a good question especially as I seem to remember a scene with his mother who speaks with a French accent.
I saw an episode where he returned to France to see his brother who had a winery, where he considered quitting as captain or something.
I understand, but since you wrote that, Tref countered and Highway's comment seemed to kind of presume that the actor tried for a good accent. So I tried to clarify between the character and the actor. But yes, in essence, I did repeat what you already writed.
I would have no problem understanding Patrick Stewart doing a Yorkshire accent and I can tell the world of diffence between an Indian English Accent and an African one just as maybe we don't get all the subtle nuances between American accents unless they are really blatently different.
I would find it strange that an actor like Harrison Ford would not try do do his character justice by doing a real as opposed to fake accent - guess we will have to wait for his next "kilted" performance! :D-->
I would find it strange that an actor like Harrison Ford would not try do do his character justice by doing a real as opposed to fake accent - guess we will have to wait for his next "kilted" performance!
Simple: If you're playing a character who can't speak with a Scottish accent, then you have to botch the Scottish accent. It's not that he's NOT doing his character justice. It's precisely the opposite. If I were to play someone who's never spoken Spanish before, but in playing that person, I spoke Spanish with ease and fluidity, I would NOT be doing that character justice. I would have to intentionally botch my Spanish in order to do the character justice, even though my Spanish accent is pretty good (vocabulary and grammar could use some help, but I know how it's supposed to sound).
It's one of those legends based upon the ancient highlanders and thier feile mhath (great kilt one piece plaid) and the modern feile beagh (little kilt which covers the loins only and is already pleated). I believe the tradition is still enforced in Scottish regiments but with everyone else you end up guessing! :D-->
(unless you know them well anyway)
Raf - if you have seen the Young Indiana Jones chronicles you will know that Indy is multi lingual and can speak each tongue with a perfect accent and diction. Somehow that kind of militates against your argument, although I can understand your reasoning, :P-->
You are correct: that weakens my argument. However, you presume that producers and directors are consistent with their material. Sometimes they forget (for example, Khan never met Chekhov, but that didn't stop him from remembering Chekhov in Star Trek II; speaking of Star Trek II, Saavik, a Vulcan, cries at Spock's funeral).
You may be right in that the Indiana Jones character should have done a fine job; but someone forgot to tell Spielberg and Ford. They played the scene for laughs, continuity be damned.
speaking of Star Trek II, Saavik, a Vulcan, cries at Spock's funeral).
Raf, I believe according to Trek canon (and the Trek experts can correct me if I'm wrong) Saavik is half-Romulan and spent some of her childhood in a rather harsh non-Vulcan setting, so she might not feel completely bound to the emotion-suppressing disciplines.
And neither of her two incarnations had a British accent (had to re-rail this somehow! :)--> )
That was a CYA for the blunder of having her cry. There's just nothing in the movie whatsoever to lead anyone to think she's anything but Vulcan, and nothing in any subsequent movie to address it. It was a blunder, pure and simple.
Pip pip!
Correction: I learned I was mistaken. There was a line of dialogue cut from STII establishing that Saavik was half-Romulan. Even though it was cut, it established that the producers did have this information. I still think it's a blunder, but there's evidence I was wrong.
Just because Chekov isn't shown in Space Seed doesn't mean he wasn't on the Enterprise at the time and that he didn't therefore encounter Khan "offscreen." You don't see some of the leading characters in every episode do you?
And Vulcans are capable of emotion even if they seek to suppress it with logic as even Sarek admits.
I read an interesting book about the bloopers and errors of every single episode of the original series - and boy do you have to be quick to actually spot some of them! -->
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Galen
Jonny Lingo:
"Jean Luc Picard", a decidedly French name, but with a very nice, what is it Tref, a Scottish accent?"
I once worked for a guy: Pierre Flores. French first name, Spanish last name, he is a British Citizen [born and raised in the UK], and when I knew him a senior chief in the US Navy, serving in Italy.
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Trefor Heywood
Jean Luc does indeed have a classic RADA cultured accent. Why is a good question especially as I seem to remember a scene with his mother who speaks with a French accent.
No it's not a scottish accent Jonny though I expect Mr Stewart can do one, unlike "Scotty" (James Doohan) lol
;)-->
In fact several TNG cast members are Brits but they try to speak "merykan"
:D--> .
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J0nny Ling0
So Trefor,
just what exactly is RADA? Is that an acronym for something? Enlighten me please...
And Galen,
I can certainly see that in real life, but if the Next Generation bunch decided that the Captain of the Enterprise would have a very French sounding French name, then why the proper or RADa British accent?
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Steve!
Yup, sho nuff, and he called her "maman" (mah-maw, roughly) which is French for mama.
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ChasUFarley
http://www.rada.org/
The Royal Academy of Dramatic Arts type-accent
Or, as my dad would have said, "Damn stuffed shirts!"
(in other words, an accent that will add 20 points to your actualy IQ, rather than the 10 points that a plain ol' Brit accent would...)
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masterherbalist
RAF-
I have to disagree with you.
Tallahassee and the Panhandle of Florida is L.A.
(lower alabama)
Geez.
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Raf
My mistake: lower Alabama (or South Alabama) is correct.
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Trefor Heywood
RADA is the Royal Academy of Dramatic Art Jonny, located in Gower St, London.
Many Brit actors have been through it's portals - perhaps the closest US equivalent would be The Actors Studio in NYC.
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TheHighWay
I had always assumed that most European folks who learned the English language would automatically learn it with a British accent, because of the nearness and colonialism of the Brits. I mean, before the world became the small place it is now, with everyone getting media from everyone else. I've met folks from India, Africa, etc. who certainly speak with a British accent. Am I wrong in my assumption?
Funny, I never noticed the different accents thing in STNG... didn't Jean Luc's brother have a French accent as well? I guess I have learned to expect a mix of accents in my movies. And I'd DEFINATELY rather listen to the wrong accent than a badly done one (aka Harrison Ford, etc.)
Does anyone know if Patrick Stewart's (Jean Luc) accent is natural or learned? I know he was trained as a Shakespearian performer. He may be one of those people who just don't have an ear for different accents. I can't remember ever seeing him in anything where he didn't sound like himself.
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Steve!
It's a learned accent. He grew up in Yorkshire.
I saw him on a British interview show not too long ago, and he demonstrated his York accent and dialect for the audience, and he was nigh unintelligible.
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Raf
I think we're confusing things with Harrison Ford:
Harrison Ford was TRYING to do a bad accent, and he succeeded. Indiana Jones (the character, not the actor) was TRYING to do a good accent, and failed. I don't fault Harrison Ford on that one. He did exactly what he was supposed to do.
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Mister P-Mosh
I saw an episode where he returned to France to see his brother who had a winery, where he considered quitting as captain or something.
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WordWolf
That was the point I was trying to make here, Raf...
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Raf
WW,
I understand, but since you wrote that, Tref countered and Highway's comment seemed to kind of presume that the actor tried for a good accent. So I tried to clarify between the character and the actor. But yes, in essence, I did repeat what you already writed.
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Cynic
First, it was "pair" juice. Now, it is "writed."
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Trefor Heywood
I would have no problem understanding Patrick Stewart doing a Yorkshire accent and I can tell the world of diffence between an Indian English Accent and an African one just as maybe we don't get all the subtle nuances between American accents unless they are really blatently different.
I would find it strange that an actor like Harrison Ford would not try do do his character justice by doing a real as opposed to fake accent - guess we will have to wait for his next "kilted" performance!
:D-->
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J0nny Ling0
Why do you want him to wear a kilt Trefor? For I hear that a true kilt wearer has nothing on beneath than that which he was born with..
:)-->
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Raf
Simple: If you're playing a character who can't speak with a Scottish accent, then you have to botch the Scottish accent. It's not that he's NOT doing his character justice. It's precisely the opposite. If I were to play someone who's never spoken Spanish before, but in playing that person, I spoke Spanish with ease and fluidity, I would NOT be doing that character justice. I would have to intentionally botch my Spanish in order to do the character justice, even though my Spanish accent is pretty good (vocabulary and grammar could use some help, but I know how it's supposed to sound).
Clearer?
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Trefor Heywood
It's one of those legends based upon the ancient highlanders and thier feile mhath (great kilt one piece plaid) and the modern feile beagh (little kilt which covers the loins only and is already pleated). I believe the tradition is still enforced in Scottish regiments but with everyone else you end up guessing!
:D-->
(unless you know them well anyway)
Raf - if you have seen the Young Indiana Jones chronicles you will know that Indy is multi lingual and can speak each tongue with a perfect accent and diction. Somehow that kind of militates against your argument, although I can understand your reasoning,
:P-->
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Raf
You are correct: that weakens my argument. However, you presume that producers and directors are consistent with their material. Sometimes they forget (for example, Khan never met Chekhov, but that didn't stop him from remembering Chekhov in Star Trek II; speaking of Star Trek II, Saavik, a Vulcan, cries at Spock's funeral).
You may be right in that the Indiana Jones character should have done a fine job; but someone forgot to tell Spielberg and Ford. They played the scene for laughs, continuity be damned.
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Kevlar2000
Raf, I believe according to Trek canon (and the Trek experts can correct me if I'm wrong) Saavik is half-Romulan and spent some of her childhood in a rather harsh non-Vulcan setting, so she might not feel completely bound to the emotion-suppressing disciplines.
And neither of her two incarnations had a British accent (had to re-rail this somehow!
:)--> )
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Raf
Kev,
That was a CYA for the blunder of having her cry. There's just nothing in the movie whatsoever to lead anyone to think she's anything but Vulcan, and nothing in any subsequent movie to address it. It was a blunder, pure and simple.
Pip pip!
Correction: I learned I was mistaken. There was a line of dialogue cut from STII establishing that Saavik was half-Romulan. Even though it was cut, it established that the producers did have this information. I still think it's a blunder, but there's evidence I was wrong.
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Trefor Heywood
Just because Chekov isn't shown in Space Seed doesn't mean he wasn't on the Enterprise at the time and that he didn't therefore encounter Khan "offscreen." You don't see some of the leading characters in every episode do you?
And Vulcans are capable of emotion even if they seek to suppress it with logic as even Sarek admits.
I read an interesting book about the bloopers and errors of every single episode of the original series - and boy do you have to be quick to actually spot some of them!
-->
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ChasUFarley
All HAIL to Trefor!
Long live the biggest geek here on GSC (that I know of...)
(I mean, you READ a BOOK about ST blunders... good grief....)
(Now if you tell me you own Leonard Nemoy's record album where he does the song about the Bilbo, I'll really be impressed!)
Here! Here! Ol' Chap!
Dal ati!, Daliwch ati!
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