Thanks, Jard and TK...good to have some idea what's going on. Haven't heard much on the news about shortages except in the South.
They changed some laws to allow importation of refined oil temporarily, so it can go directly to the stations. refining is the bottleneck, even before katrina. I don't think we will see a shortage. Price is 3.09 in "downstate" Illinois (anywhere below chicago).
If you watch the market, oil by the barrel has come down a little after the storm, and even the refined has come down. "Buy the rumor, sell the news" is the maxim.
Haven't seen much on the state of refineries after the storm though, so it wouldn't hurt to at least keep the tank on the top half. Unfortunately, people get spooked and tend to stockpile at a time when the flow is interrupted, which just exacerbates the problem.
Is there access to Chicago from the Atlantic Ocean? I seem to recall that there is via the St. Lawrence Seaway - - but I would not take that to a game show and expect to win!
Yup --- if they can get here to Duluth, they can get to Chicago.
And when they get here, this is the bridge they go under. The center span rises vertically to allow passage of the salties, and other ships from around the great lakes..
I suggest everyone become familiar with the concept of "peak oil", and what that means for our petroleum dependent economy. Even though the damage of hurricane Katrina made the oil prices spike, it's expected that they would have gotten to this price eventually anyway, and that they will continue to rise even if they do go back down a little in the next few weeks.
This time next year, quite a few experts are saying that it would not be a suprise if we had to pay over $4 or $5 a gallon. Time to trade that Hummer in for a Prius, I suppose (just kidding.)
Actually, I'm part of a political group that meets to discuss issues related to oil and such. It's interesting to hear what people have to say and compare notes. Overall, it doesn't look good for the availability of oil for us, no matter what we do. India and China are paying more for oil that we used to buy, and many of the countries that we normally buy oil from are starting to sell more to China than to us. If you were to see this new big oil pipeline Canada is building, for example, it's clear in which direction their future oil sales are going to be headed. The rest of the world is pretty much doing the same thing. Even we do it. Our oil companies sell a lot of American oil to China because we can import it cheaper from the middle east than what it costs for us to use our own. International trade is weird.
This time next year, quite a few experts are saying that it would not be a suprise if we had to pay over $4 or $5 a gallon.
Actually, I'm part of a political group that meets to discuss issues related to oil and such.
It would not surprise me if it was under $2 either. Why is a political group meeting to discuss oil prices? And which group?
The price spike had occured before Katrina. Then it spiked again. The pump price has increased almost twice as much as the barrel price increase. Just from a trading perspective, when prices have spiked up incredibly, and you hear people talking about them going to the moon ... that is the time to sell (if you weren't smart enough to sell earlier lol).
$4 or $5 at the pump would be crippling to the US economy. Since we are still the engine for the world, who will China sell to if not us? Their (and the world's?) production machine depends on our economy.
Anyway, just wanted to present an alternative view. I could very well be wrong :)-->
Although the Chinese aren't ones to do "African Aid" concerts, they are one of the largest benefactors into building an infrastructure in Africa. Guess who is quietly setting themselves up to be a recipient of all those African natural resources????? hmmmmmmmm?
All these other places could take off I guess, but as I understand, they have been talking about that for at least 5 years, but it is still the US economy that is "the engine" for the world. Here is part of one article just from google...
"Low on fuel
But how can the world be weaned off its over-reliance on American spending without sending the global economy into recession?"
That was a couple years ago, but I think it is the same or worse now. The solution was for foreignors to buy more, and Americans less, but they thought that was unlikely.
Another article said many believe the economic slowdown point for the price of oil is $100, which is sorta what we have now because of the large "crack spread". :)--> I wish i could say I knew what that meant before about 5 minutes ago, but it is the spread between the barrel price and the refined price, which is extra wide right now. lol
Anyway, who knows? It would actually be good for everyone if all the world economies prospered, unless they do it by selling WMD's to terrorists.
Originally posted by Mister P-Mosh:This time next year, quite a few experts are saying that it would not be a suprise if we had to pay over $4 or $5 a gallon. Actually, I'm part of a political group that meets to discuss issues related to oil and such.
It would not surprise me if it was under $2 either. Why is a political group meeting to discuss oil prices? And which group? The price spike had occured before Katrina. Then it spiked again. The pump price has increased almost twice as much as the barrel price increase. Just from a trading perspective, when prices have spiked up incredibly, and you hear people talking about them going to the moon ... that is the time to sell (if you weren't smart enough to sell earlier lol).
$4 or $5 at the pump would be crippling to the US economy. Since we are still the engine for the world, who will China sell to if not us? Their (and the world's?) production machine depends on our economy. Anyway, just wanted to present an alternative view. I could very well be wrong :)
I thought I'd revive these bold predictions from a year ago, about gas prices in a year. p-mosh said $4-$5 for gas for 9/7/06 (although couched as "wouldn't be surprised if it was that") I said could be $2. At the time it was like $3.20 ... it is now $2.76 and they are talking about it heading to toward $2 for Thanksgiving.
Of course any action in Iran could take it to $4. Many feel barrel prices are heading up ...
One way to save a little on gas is to fill up early in the morning, before the sun gets its day rolling. You'll get more for your money.
I heard this before, something about the gasoline being cooler so denser ... but how much does the temperature swing in those huge underground tanks? I'd bet very little.
Actually I drove by a station in San Antonio yesterday where I paid .199. That was 34 years ago but whoes counting. Gas here dropped to $2.69 here yesterday. Down in SA it was only $2.58
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Linda Z
Here ya go, Krys:
http://www.greatlakes-seaway.com/en/seawaymap/#portinfo
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rhino
They changed some laws to allow importation of refined oil temporarily, so it can go directly to the stations. refining is the bottleneck, even before katrina. I don't think we will see a shortage. Price is 3.09 in "downstate" Illinois (anywhere below chicago).
If you watch the market, oil by the barrel has come down a little after the storm, and even the refined has come down. "Buy the rumor, sell the news" is the maxim.
Haven't seen much on the state of refineries after the storm though, so it wouldn't hurt to at least keep the tank on the top half. Unfortunately, people get spooked and tend to stockpile at a time when the flow is interrupted, which just exacerbates the problem.
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dmiller
Yup --- if they can get here to Duluth, they can get to Chicago.
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dmiller
And when they get here, this is the bridge they go under. The center span rises vertically to allow passage of the salties, and other ships from around the great lakes..
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rhino
That is pretty dm
:)-->
Do they keep it lit all the time?
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dmiller
Yea -- they do keep it lit up.
The Blatnik bridge from Superior Wisconsin, to Duluth Minnesota (Wisconsin is just a shot hop away from here) is lit up all the time too. Here it is.
David
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reikilady
Gasohol is $3.20 and so is Diesel! We can't tell people over the phone what our price is at the convenience store I work at.
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Mister P-Mosh
I suggest everyone become familiar with the concept of "peak oil", and what that means for our petroleum dependent economy. Even though the damage of hurricane Katrina made the oil prices spike, it's expected that they would have gotten to this price eventually anyway, and that they will continue to rise even if they do go back down a little in the next few weeks.
This time next year, quite a few experts are saying that it would not be a suprise if we had to pay over $4 or $5 a gallon. Time to trade that Hummer in for a Prius, I suppose (just kidding.)
Actually, I'm part of a political group that meets to discuss issues related to oil and such. It's interesting to hear what people have to say and compare notes. Overall, it doesn't look good for the availability of oil for us, no matter what we do. India and China are paying more for oil that we used to buy, and many of the countries that we normally buy oil from are starting to sell more to China than to us. If you were to see this new big oil pipeline Canada is building, for example, it's clear in which direction their future oil sales are going to be headed. The rest of the world is pretty much doing the same thing. Even we do it. Our oil companies sell a lot of American oil to China because we can import it cheaper from the middle east than what it costs for us to use our own. International trade is weird.
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rhino
It would not surprise me if it was under $2 either. Why is a political group meeting to discuss oil prices? And which group?
The price spike had occured before Katrina. Then it spiked again. The pump price has increased almost twice as much as the barrel price increase. Just from a trading perspective, when prices have spiked up incredibly, and you hear people talking about them going to the moon ... that is the time to sell (if you weren't smart enough to sell earlier lol).
$4 or $5 at the pump would be crippling to the US economy. Since we are still the engine for the world, who will China sell to if not us? Their (and the world's?) production machine depends on our economy.
Anyway, just wanted to present an alternative view. I could very well be wrong
:)-->
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jardinero
O.K. - - I'll bite
:)-->
How about that booming economy of the 1 billion people in India?
Although still rather crippled from the break up of the Soviet block, how about Russia???
In other words, "anyone but the U.S.".
Just a few thoughts from the rambling gardener
:D-->
J.
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jardinero
Oh yeah, one other thought.
Although the Chinese aren't ones to do "African Aid" concerts, they are one of the largest benefactors into building an infrastructure in Africa. Guess who is quietly setting themselves up to be a recipient of all those African natural resources????? hmmmmmmmm?
J.
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rhino
Oh good, Jardinero is here
:)-->
All these other places could take off I guess, but as I understand, they have been talking about that for at least 5 years, but it is still the US economy that is "the engine" for the world. Here is part of one article just from google...
"Low on fuel
But how can the world be weaned off its over-reliance on American spending without sending the global economy into recession?"
http://www.economist.com/surveys/showsurve...?issue=20030920
That was a couple years ago, but I think it is the same or worse now. The solution was for foreignors to buy more, and Americans less, but they thought that was unlikely.
Another article said many believe the economic slowdown point for the price of oil is $100, which is sorta what we have now because of the large "crack spread".
:)--> I wish i could say I knew what that meant before about 5 minutes ago, but it is the spread between the barrel price and the refined price, which is extra wide right now. lol
Anyway, who knows? It would actually be good for everyone if all the world economies prospered, unless they do it by selling WMD's to terrorists.
Must be time to chat
-->
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jardinero
So get movin
;)-->
J.
P.S. Not sure what the "crack spread" theory of economics is.....one can only imagine.
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rhino
I thought I'd revive these bold predictions from a year ago, about gas prices in a year. p-mosh said $4-$5 for gas for 9/7/06 (although couched as "wouldn't be surprised if it was that") I said could be $2. At the time it was like $3.20 ... it is now $2.76 and they are talking about it heading to toward $2 for Thanksgiving.
Of course any action in Iran could take it to $4. Many feel barrel prices are heading up ...
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likeaneagle
I paid 2.74 yesterday...THat would be nice to see 2 again...4-5 per gallon, glad we never saw that..that would hurt our economy in a very bad way..
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Sushi
One way to save a little on gas is to fill up early in the morning, before the sun gets its day rolling. You'll get more for your money.
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rhino
I heard this before, something about the gasoline being cooler so denser ... but how much does the temperature swing in those huge underground tanks? I'd bet very little.
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WhiteDove
It's $2.50 in Kansas
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Belle
$2.89 for regular in Orlando. :(
I'll be a happy camper when it goes down!
What's the lowest price you remember? I think it was .75 in Mississippi when I first got my license in 1983.
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Sushi
When I got to Michigan about five years ago, I remember being outraged that gas was 1.70 a gallon. Ah, to return to those halcyon days.
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dmiller
I'm still waiting for permission to fill up. :(
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Shellon
Permission?
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ex70sHouston
Actually I drove by a station in San Antonio yesterday where I paid .199. That was 34 years ago but whoes counting. Gas here dropped to $2.69 here yesterday. Down in SA it was only $2.58
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Linda Z
Woo hoo, $2.46 here (counting that pesky .9 as a penny). Lowest it's been a long time.
Oh, and David, you have my permission to fill up. :)
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