No one's disputing that it's an ekklesia. That's not an opinion. It's an objective fact. My movie mistakes buddies are an ekklesia too.
It's just not a church. Ekklesia does not mean "church" the way we mean it in English.
That's kind of a joke.
dmiller had posted a URL which displayed a picture from my site of a forest. I swapped images in my site, which triggered an image change in that post because it was still pulling from my server under the first image address.
How about learning the Bhagavagita instead? What's wrong with that? Or maybe the Koran? Or the Tibetan Book of the Dead? O maybe the sayings of Bhudda? Or maybe...
There's nothing wrong with learning the bible and leaving The Way out of it, in fact, leaving The Way out of learning the bible is preferable to learning the bible while keeping The Way in it.
How about learning the Bhagavagita instead? What's wrong with that? Or maybe the Koran? Or the Tibetan Book of the Dead? O maybe the sayings of Bhudda? Or maybe...
Why would I want to read the "Koran" I would turn into Saddam or Osama
since I made you cry in chat I will try to explain.
If you want to me to read the bible and just believe everything it says.
It says God almighty the very one who created mankind kills and tortures for fun .
many do believe that as a matter of fact.
do you?
I do not, because I understand it to be a figure of speech Metonomy and hundreds if not thousand of figures of speech are employed in the scriptures. to tell a person to read the bible and get what god wants us to understand without a study of the many many facets it is about is just palin stupid and in the very least would discourage anyone from ever believing our Father is the loving precious God He really is.
God is protrayed in the old testiment as a heathen mass murderer. shocked well then just read it but do not study it and you will see why I can claim such .
figures of speech in thebible is amassive subject and without the knowledge of them no sane person would want a God as described in the old testiment .
many issues will come up if yu really want the bible to make sense to you like the new books being written in greek yet referring to many many hebrew idioms .
the list is long and without a consistent further study of language time, administration and most of all deep prayer the bible is a horrid book full of storys of mass murder and heartbreak.
it isnt that easy CK. ( I honestly wish it was) after 45 years of the life the book has given me as far as knowledge and know how and peace and hope for a better future , it takes a heck of alot more than just read it and understand what God means. it takes study and research and a want to spirit willing to listen to His heart and Spirit.
If your suggestion worked every person would be born again of Holy Spirit and God precious child , clearly you understand that is not the case right? It was written for His people , for those who chose to follow Jesus Christ as Lord.
since I made you cry in chat I will try to explain.
If you want to me to read the bible and just believe everything it says.
It says God almighty the very one who created mankind kills and tortures for fun .
many do believe that as a matter of fact.
do you?
I do not, because I understand it to be a figure of speech Metonomy and hundreds if not thousand of figures of speech are employed in the scriptures. to tell a person to read the bible and get what god wants us to understand without a study of the many many facets it is about is just palin stupid and in the very least would discourage anyone from ever believing our Father is the loving precious God He really is.
God is protrayed in the old testiment as a heathen mass murderer. shocked well then just read it but do not study it and you will see why I can claim such .
figures of speech in thebible is amassive subject and without the knowledge of them no sane person would want a God as described in the old testiment .
many issues will come up if yu really want the bible to make sense to you like the new books being written in greek yet referring to many many hebrew idioms .
the list is long and without a consistent further study of language time, administration and most of all deep prayer the bible is a horrid book full of storys of mass murder and heartbreak.
it isnt that easy CK. ( I honestly wish it was) after 45 years of the life the book has given me as far as knowledge and know how and peace and hope for a better future , it takes a heck of alot more than just read it and understand what God means. it takes study and research and a want to spirit willing to listen to His heart and Spirit.
If your suggestion worked every person would be born again of Holy Spirit and God precious child , clearly you understand that is not the case right? It was written for His people , for those who chose to follow Jesus Christ as Lord.
long enough.
since I made you cry in chat I will try to explain.
The only reason you did was because you said hi to everyone but me.
If you want to me to read the bible and just believe everything it says.
\
Yes the bible is the word of God which is truth.
It says God almighty the very one who created mankind kills and tortures for fun.
God allows the Devil to kill people in the Old Test when people sinned.
the bible is a horrid book
Why would you say that?? The book is also full of hope.
It was written for His people
This is right starting in Romans going through Thessalonians is written to his people of the new testiment.
Jesus christ paid for our sins when he died on the cross. Therefore God does not pass judgement till the end of time. If you think God will show mercy to the unbelievers at the end. Maybe you should read Revelations and see all the things that will happen. People die in the end all the time because the devil will have control, with the antichrist. In which Thessalonians has described how we (the believers) will be saved from the wrath to come.
It says God almighty the very one who created mankind kills and tortures for fun.
God allows the Devil to kill people in the Old Test when people sinned.
Can you document one place where it says that the Devil killed anybody? Look up "slew" in a concordance and see how many times it says God killed people.
If you're going to take the position that God didn't kill people in the OT, but "allowed the Devil" to do it, what's your documentation?
please do not quote me out of context! everyone can reread my post and see the rest of the sentence in which I say the "bible is a horrid book".
My post also testifies to the fact I have been reading it and studying it for decades.
You have not even been alive for decades yet.
it is well and good for you to defend the book of life, i love it as well , I was referring to you previous point in which you wanted to " help me."
your reply was
"just read the bible and believe what it has to say".
it isnt that easy .
As my post tries to demostrate to pick up the Holy Bible and I do not care which version you use you will find contradictions and errrors and different ideals, Yet God says He does not lie.
I do not believe god lies I believ it is in our study of the book .
I think that is why pfal is so helpful and attractive to people.. it gives answers were just reading the book is sketchy and leaves a person wondering just what it all means.
Oak has a great point .
if a person wants to understand (not just read) what the bible is saying it takes a life time. and study
God uses the word STUDY for a reason he knows it will take a reader on a journey that will last a life time and then another.
then people get stuck on defending their one point of research and forget it isnt even about the study as much as it is worship and loving.
the ot testiment believers did not know about the devil they had no way to fight against him so God took the heat and allowed them to believe it was HIM doing all the blood guts in gore in the book.
Job once refers to Satan but again satan is not the devil , they thought it was spirits , it is very complex and not one Im willing to teach here.
Jesus Christ brought the truth to mankind, about what was up with suffering and such.
correct.
my point is if a reader just picked up the bible and read it they may get a very very skewed idea of who is and what God our creator wants for His people , so just reading the bible and believing it will not work.
God allows the Devil to kill people in the Old Test when people sinned.Can you document one place where it says that the Devil killed anybody? Look up "slew" in a concordance and see how many times it says God killed people.
If you're going to take the position that God didn't kill people in the OT, but "allowed the Devil" to do it, what's your documentation?
Sure, I can remind you of John 10:10
The THEIF cometh not but for to steal, KILL, and destroy. I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly.
The Thief (Devil)
Kills and Destroys (murder)
I hope the bible is enough documentation
CK
Ck
one more point . do you believe in a God that ALLOWS anything eles to murder KILL and destroy his children?
your post indicates you do.
I do not. MY God is love , always and he does not give permission to anyone to hurt his children in any way shape or manner.
God is a just God .
Jesus Christ is our testimony of Gods love , he is sitting on the right hand of the Father.
How about NOAHS ARK where God himself made a covenant with Noah to never flood the earth again. God warned the believers of the Flood to come then the flood came and killed the unbelievers.
God allows the Devil to kill people in the Old Test when people sinned.Can you document one place where it says that the Devil killed anybody? Look up "slew" in a concordance and see how many times it says God killed people.
If you're going to take the position that God didn't kill people in the OT, but "allowed the Devil" to do it, what's your documentation?
Sure, I can remind you of John 10:10
The THEIF cometh not but for to steal, KILL, and destroy. I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly.
The Thief (Devil)
Kills and Destroys (murder)
I hope the bible is enough documentation
CK
Not bad CK, not bad. But what you've done is point out a major inconsistancy, or contradiction in the bible. The writer of the Gospel of John is claiming that Jesus said what you quoted above. Yet there are many, many clear verses where God slays people, or has his followers slay people.
Jesus is quoted as saying that The Thief (presumably the devil) comes for no other reason but for to steal, kill and destroy. Yet in every place in the bible where there's some killing done, other than one human killing another, the bible says that its God that did it.
Even in Job, one of the few places where Satan is actually clearly named in the OT, the bible says that it was God that smote Job.
PLEASE READ WHAT i HAVE WRITTEN , Jesus brought the truth of the situation , concerning Gods heart and thoughts and deeds towards His people all are His creation CK.
my only point is about your idea of just reading the bible and understanding it , it isnt that easy or you will get cnfused on whois who who can and does what.
lots of contradiction in the bible.
lots.
I can speak of noah but the isssue is that is a doctrinal discussion really and should be put in the forum for it.
God did and does not kill anyone nor does He allow anyone to be hurt in any way.
As oak pointed out you yourself are saying it is the devil and then it is God who kills.
cant have it both ways can you? so which is it?
see? why I say it will and does get confusing?
a good chunk of the bible does stand alone and you can read it and it will jive with all the rest of the story, but their are inconsistencys and what would appear as errors if a further study is not done .
"God CAUSES you to die as a RESULT of your continuing to commit deeds that you know your going to die if you continue doing".
so your God kills peopletakes pleasure in hurting His own creation because they are not good enough for HIM . the bible states SATAN the arch enemy of Our Father is the one capable of KILLING . it state God is LOVE, in no way shape or form is murder loving anyone.
What deed did that little child do to be the one that got run over by a car?
Why would a good man or woman who loves God die of cancer and not the raper inside the prison?
I do not like your God Temple not one bit.
The wages of sin is certainly death , on that I agree , who does the killing is the god of this world SATAN, not our heavenly father who is kind and very very patient and wish all men be saved from death unto everlasting glory and life.
it is not a big surprise many religous people believe that.. it is a big fat lie.
In the OT.
God need to preserve the line of christ 's Blood in the old tesitment or their woud have been no redeemer , of sodom God saved His line of blood.. the bible states every person left had nothing but evil , in the case of Moses and leaving town how many times did God warn pharoah??? many many many times and the people still l could have saved their child if they would have put the blood on the door. they did not, they CHOSE to follow a man instead.
these acts where done by God to save christ who saved us from death, with His obedience once and for all when God Raised HIM to be KING of KIngs.
Jesus Christ is alive today , saving us to the very very uttermost. God kills no one . God does not work in partnership with Satan to have His people killed like some mafiia hit man .
are you kidding me ? man this is why I do not do doctrinal discussions.
You're having a lot of fun with this, aren't you? You are so much like my son (from what I've learned of you here and in chat). It seems to be the way of youth to blast in the face of age. Which is good, imo, because age often leads to ruts that cause inability to learn and grow. Those ruts, however, had to start somewhere...and they usually start in our youth.
It is my hope that you are here to keep ruts from forming in your life.
Are you?
As concerns "what happened to the word??"...
Well, ck, the true Word was never a part of twi. That's what happened. Period.
If you don't or won't grasp that, then you're asking a rhetorical question...because you don't really want the answer, you just want to tell people what you believe.
***********************
pond,
"My god' this and "Your god" that...
Um...making 'god' in one's own image isn't biblical at all.
God kills. Simple.
You don't like that? So? It's biblical...if you read the whole bible.
Even you admit that.
Just because you happen to agree with His reason for killing in some situations (to preserve Jesus' bloodline is the example you gave, I believe) but not in others...well, pond, that just shows your desire to make god into your own image...
Can you back up and see the forest? It helps when having doctrinal discussions...imo...
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ex10
ckm, no offense intended, but "knowledge of the word" is what got everybody in trouble to start with. "Knowledge of the word"without a relationship with Jesus causes no end of pain and heartache. I
pond
I have thought this way before as well. Well if the "word" says it then lets just do it. Now I loook at who is saying when where and just how and could care less if the fact a chapter and ver
lindyhopper
As far as I know, the bird is still the word. If it has changed please let me know.
M. D. Vaden
That's kind of a joke.
dmiller had posted a URL which displayed a picture from my site of a forest. I swapped images in my site, which triggered an image change in that post because it was still pulling from my server under the first image address.
That was my doing - just being pesky.
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ckmkeon
Yep it was a nice location, but back to the subject. What went wrong with learning the bible and leaving the Way out of it
CK
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George Aar
How about learning the Bhagavagita instead? What's wrong with that? Or maybe the Koran? Or the Tibetan Book of the Dead? O maybe the sayings of Bhudda? Or maybe...
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Oakspear
There's nothing wrong with learning the bible and leaving The Way out of it, in fact, leaving The Way out of learning the bible is preferable to learning the bible while keeping The Way in it.
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ckmkeon
Why would I want to read the "Koran" I would turn into Saddam or Osama
CK
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TheEvan
Wow, that's quite an admission. Of all the Muslim you couldhave transmogrified into, you figure to be one of those two...
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alfakat
...maybe he has only heard of 2.....saddam kinda secular for a Muslim, though......
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pond
well I have reading the bible for 45 years.
and every since pfal and twi and then the off shoots I do not know if I am able to leave " it" out of it.
cant figure out how anymore.
like a mad angry echo in my brain seered in the skin and membrane.
I have tried .
not very successful .
every single time.. o never mind , good luck to you to late for me.
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ckmkeon
Let me try to help just read the bible and believe what it has to say.
CK
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pond
since I made you cry in chat I will try to explain.
If you want to me to read the bible and just believe everything it says.
It says God almighty the very one who created mankind kills and tortures for fun .
many do believe that as a matter of fact.
do you?
I do not, because I understand it to be a figure of speech Metonomy and hundreds if not thousand of figures of speech are employed in the scriptures. to tell a person to read the bible and get what god wants us to understand without a study of the many many facets it is about is just palin stupid and in the very least would discourage anyone from ever believing our Father is the loving precious God He really is.
God is protrayed in the old testiment as a heathen mass murderer. shocked well then just read it but do not study it and you will see why I can claim such .
figures of speech in thebible is amassive subject and without the knowledge of them no sane person would want a God as described in the old testiment .
many issues will come up if yu really want the bible to make sense to you like the new books being written in greek yet referring to many many hebrew idioms .
the list is long and without a consistent further study of language time, administration and most of all deep prayer the bible is a horrid book full of storys of mass murder and heartbreak.
it isnt that easy CK. ( I honestly wish it was) after 45 years of the life the book has given me as far as knowledge and know how and peace and hope for a better future , it takes a heck of alot more than just read it and understand what God means. it takes study and research and a want to spirit willing to listen to His heart and Spirit.
If your suggestion worked every person would be born again of Holy Spirit and God precious child , clearly you understand that is not the case right? It was written for His people , for those who chose to follow Jesus Christ as Lord.
long enough.
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ckmkeon
Yes the bible is the word of God which is truth.
God allows the Devil to kill people in the Old Test when people sinned.Why would you say that?? The book is also full of hope.
This is right starting in Romans going through Thessalonians is written to his people of the new testiment.
Jesus christ paid for our sins when he died on the cross. Therefore God does not pass judgement till the end of time. If you think God will show mercy to the unbelievers at the end. Maybe you should read Revelations and see all the things that will happen. People die in the end all the time because the devil will have control, with the antichrist. In which Thessalonians has described how we (the believers) will be saved from the wrath to come.
CK
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Oakspear
If you're going to take the position that God didn't kill people in the OT, but "allowed the Devil" to do it, what's your documentation?
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pond
ck
please do not quote me out of context! everyone can reread my post and see the rest of the sentence in which I say the "bible is a horrid book".
My post also testifies to the fact I have been reading it and studying it for decades.
You have not even been alive for decades yet.
it is well and good for you to defend the book of life, i love it as well , I was referring to you previous point in which you wanted to " help me."
your reply was
"just read the bible and believe what it has to say".
it isnt that easy .
As my post tries to demostrate to pick up the Holy Bible and I do not care which version you use you will find contradictions and errrors and different ideals, Yet God says He does not lie.
I do not believe god lies I believ it is in our study of the book .
I think that is why pfal is so helpful and attractive to people.. it gives answers were just reading the book is sketchy and leaves a person wondering just what it all means.
Oak has a great point .
if a person wants to understand (not just read) what the bible is saying it takes a life time. and study
God uses the word STUDY for a reason he knows it will take a reader on a journey that will last a life time and then another.
then people get stuck on defending their one point of research and forget it isnt even about the study as much as it is worship and loving.
the ot testiment believers did not know about the devil they had no way to fight against him so God took the heat and allowed them to believe it was HIM doing all the blood guts in gore in the book.
Job once refers to Satan but again satan is not the devil , they thought it was spirits , it is very complex and not one Im willing to teach here.
Jesus Christ brought the truth to mankind, about what was up with suffering and such.
correct.
my point is if a reader just picked up the bible and read it they may get a very very skewed idea of who is and what God our creator wants for His people , so just reading the bible and believing it will not work.
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pond
Ck
one more point . do you believe in a God that ALLOWS anything eles to murder KILL and destroy his children?
your post indicates you do.
I do not. MY God is love , always and he does not give permission to anyone to hurt his children in any way shape or manner.
God is a just God .
Jesus Christ is our testimony of Gods love , he is sitting on the right hand of the Father.
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ckmkeon
Sure, I can remind you of John 10:10
The THEIF cometh not but for to steal, KILL, and destroy. I am come that they might have life and that they might have it more abundantly.
The Thief (Devil)
Kills and Destroys (murder)
I hope the bible is enough documentation
CK
How about NOAHS ARK where God himself made a covenant with Noah to never flood the earth again. God warned the believers of the Flood to come then the flood came and killed the unbelievers.
CK
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Oakspear
Jesus is quoted as saying that The Thief (presumably the devil) comes for no other reason but for to steal, kill and destroy. Yet in every place in the bible where there's some killing done, other than one human killing another, the bible says that its God that did it.
Even in Job, one of the few places where Satan is actually clearly named in the OT, the bible says that it was God that smote Job.
I hope the bible is enough documentation
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Tom Strange
How do we know that the "thief" wasn't veepee??? hmmm...? how do we know that?
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pond
YES CK
PLEASE READ WHAT i HAVE WRITTEN , Jesus brought the truth of the situation , concerning Gods heart and thoughts and deeds towards His people all are His creation CK.
my only point is about your idea of just reading the bible and understanding it , it isnt that easy or you will get cnfused on whois who who can and does what.
lots of contradiction in the bible.
lots.
I can speak of noah but the isssue is that is a doctrinal discussion really and should be put in the forum for it.
God did and does not kill anyone nor does He allow anyone to be hurt in any way.
As oak pointed out you yourself are saying it is the devil and then it is God who kills.
cant have it both ways can you? so which is it?
see? why I say it will and does get confusing?
a good chunk of the bible does stand alone and you can read it and it will jive with all the rest of the story, but their are inconsistencys and what would appear as errors if a further study is not done .
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markomalley
Oak/Pond:
Perhaps it would do CK some good if he actually looked at all of John 10. Particularly verse 8.
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Oakspear
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templelady
Personally I have no problem with the concept that
You defy God,
God tells you if you continue to defy Him you will die,
God causes you to die as a result of your continuing to commit deeds that you know you are going to die for committing
Goodbye Sodom and Gomorrah
I mean, it's not like this is a BIG SURPRISE
He's been saying the same thing for all of human history.......
"the wages of sin is death"
God does Love
But God is also righteous
And God keeps His word
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pond
Temple lady says:
"God CAUSES you to die as a RESULT of your continuing to commit deeds that you know your going to die if you continue doing".
so your God kills peopletakes pleasure in hurting His own creation because they are not good enough for HIM . the bible states SATAN the arch enemy of Our Father is the one capable of KILLING . it state God is LOVE, in no way shape or form is murder loving anyone.
What deed did that little child do to be the one that got run over by a car?
Why would a good man or woman who loves God die of cancer and not the raper inside the prison?
I do not like your God Temple not one bit.
The wages of sin is certainly death , on that I agree , who does the killing is the god of this world SATAN, not our heavenly father who is kind and very very patient and wish all men be saved from death unto everlasting glory and life.
it is not a big surprise many religous people believe that.. it is a big fat lie.
In the OT.
God need to preserve the line of christ 's Blood in the old tesitment or their woud have been no redeemer , of sodom God saved His line of blood.. the bible states every person left had nothing but evil , in the case of Moses and leaving town how many times did God warn pharoah??? many many many times and the people still l could have saved their child if they would have put the blood on the door. they did not, they CHOSE to follow a man instead.
these acts where done by God to save christ who saved us from death, with His obedience once and for all when God Raised HIM to be KING of KIngs.
Jesus Christ is alive today , saving us to the very very uttermost. God kills no one . God does not work in partnership with Satan to have His people killed like some mafiia hit man .
are you kidding me ? man this is why I do not do doctrinal discussions.
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CoolWaters
ck,
You're having a lot of fun with this, aren't you? You are so much like my son (from what I've learned of you here and in chat). It seems to be the way of youth to blast in the face of age. Which is good, imo, because age often leads to ruts that cause inability to learn and grow. Those ruts, however, had to start somewhere...and they usually start in our youth.
It is my hope that you are here to keep ruts from forming in your life.
Are you?
As concerns "what happened to the word??"...
Well, ck, the true Word was never a part of twi. That's what happened. Period.
If you don't or won't grasp that, then you're asking a rhetorical question...because you don't really want the answer, you just want to tell people what you believe.
***********************
pond,
"My god' this and "Your god" that...
Um...making 'god' in one's own image isn't biblical at all.
God kills. Simple.
You don't like that? So? It's biblical...if you read the whole bible.
Even you admit that.
Just because you happen to agree with His reason for killing in some situations (to preserve Jesus' bloodline is the example you gave, I believe) but not in others...well, pond, that just shows your desire to make god into your own image...
Can you back up and see the forest? It helps when having doctrinal discussions...imo...
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Tom Strange
ummmm... pond... I don't think templelady said God was the ONLY one that kills... IIRC...
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