Guitar Talk

[A la prochaine]

Socks,

nice thoughts...

very nice thoughts...

I work with words all day long... breaking them apart piece by piece, sound by sound and then building them back up again in order to get children to read. One of the tools we use to teach children to read, is to read words that MAKE no sense... called NONSENSE words... like brept, dreb, greb, glin, and so on ... so the children can learn their sounds (which most are weak in) and then build the word up one sound at time and not depend on their memory of the word to read it. For example, let's say they know the work 'table' ... well they do not use any sound skills to read that word. They recognize the word as a whole and then just read it. Like you recognizing a picture and saying ... oh that's a tree. Same idea. But that can only go so far when you are dealing with the tools needed for reading. If the other skills are not in place, they're up poop creek with no paddle once they stumble upon a word they've never seen before. Sorta' like what you mentioned about words needing a reference in order to have meaning.

Reading nonsense words forces them to depend on the sounds they know and blending those sounds to put the word together. It sorta' what we call rewiring them neurologically.

The concept of music not being defined by any other thing than the notes (sound) struck a chord with me (no pun intended). That is a very strong and pure medium of communication. It needs no reference, no previous knowledge of which sounds are what or so on. It just needs someone to listen and take it all in...add words to the mix and you have a very, very powerful form of communication.

And, to think that when we listen to music, we are basically just listening to certain vibrations and frequency of those vibrations in the air. ( I think?) It's mind boggling. :huh:

Edited February 14, 2007 by A la prochaine

[A la prochaine]

New concert added to Wolfgang's Vault...

Van the man...

just wayyyyy tooo much music for one little froggie to take in...

i'm exhausted

i think this music junkie is overdosing

[waysider]

-------------- --------

"Jaberwocky" by Lewis Carroll(from the novel "Through The Looking Glass and What Alice Found")

Twas brillig, and the slither toves

Did gyre and gimble in the wabe

All wimsy were the borgroves

And the mome raths outgrabe

"Beware the Jabberwock, my son

The jaws that bite, the claws that catch!

Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun

The frumious Bandersnatch!"

Etc. Etc. Etc.

This poem is often used as a teaching tool in understanding context.

[ChattyKathy]

Man I could just see me trying to understand the context of that, I don't even know what most of it is saying.

btw....was that eating rats in the snow while speaking French? (not this....that)

[socks]

Innerstin' A la, now you've got me thinking.

One of the tools we use to teach children to read, is to read words that MAKE no sense... called NONSENSE words... like brept, dreb, greb, glin, and so on ... so the children can learn their sounds (which most are weak in) and then build the word up one sound at time and not depend on their memory of the word to read it. For example, let's say they know the work 'table' ... well they do not use any sound skills to read that word. They recognize the word as a whole and then just read it. Like you recognizing a picture and saying ... oh that's a tree. Same idea.

That reminded me of our kids, when they were very young. Our son Jesse had his own words for things when he started to converse. "Botch" (my spellings here) was "banana". "Geezoo" was "give me" or "I want that". There were many I don't remember, but they were both pretty active for awhile. Jennifer would say "yama" and I think it meant "Yeah!" And her best one, although based on the real word was "sweetyheart" for "sweetheart. Your daughter says you're her "sweetyheart" and you know what she means.

Is that similar? I've read kids all do that, not sure.

One of my fav philoso-reads is Henri Bergson, who wrote "The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend".

When we see something, we comprehend to the degree we're able.

When we hear something, we hear, it's similar I think but in a different way. We hear things and can understand them, regardless of whether we understand what's being played, or how. There's a point of communication there, and one that can expand the more we come to know what we're listening to. But the ear hears, regardless of whether we know what we're hearing.

Like words - the words may not have definition but when we hear them we do get a sense of what's being said. The power of words may have to do with that - the meaning and bearing of the speaker and listener. It goes beyond belief...I think, but to some degree what we infuse into words gives them power. Is it the same with sound, music? I'm not sure.

I know a great deal of religious and philo-thought has developed around "art for arts sake". Lots. - like Walter Pater, (late 1800's) I was just reading, really developed the critical analysis of art as a means to expanding one's understanding.

I guess - I know when I hear Portugese it's like hearing some wonderful language of sounds and beautiful stuff. They could be saying the garbage stinks and is full of rats heads, and it would sound great.

Edited February 14, 2007 by socks

[ChattyKathy]

Why do rats keep coming up. :blink:

:)

[socks]

Mickey Rat! Sorry, I keep editing. I edit, therefore I am!

[ChattyKathy]

You could make a grouch smile!

[waysider]

Rats eat snow?

We could use a few in Tomato Town. :blink:

[ChattyKathy]

You were the one that started that rat snow thing over in the snow thread.

Honest to Gawd I am going to pee from laughing over that one waysider...... :biglaugh:

[A la prochaine]

Socks...

Phewww... i could go on and on and on here... scary thought ... since I go on and on and on with very little prompting around these parts on a good day and now you've just made it a VERY good day... So it's all SOCK's FAULT EVERYONE!!! <------ :P

Yes, children do make up various words for certain things.... I'm sure it's their brain development and how they are processing sounds at that time in that particular stage of their personal development.

I'm no Dr. ... but I do work for one and we work with children who have difficulty with reading. These children are usually very very bright in most other aspects of learning.. it's just the 'reading' thing isn't happening. To compensate for their lack of reading abilities they sometimes develop great skills in memory (whole reading... just memorizing the word and what it looks like.. combination of certain letters in certain patterns.)

These students are usually very weak in phonological memory... meaning... the ability to remember sound. Now when you break it down to the most commom denominator, basically all reading is sound. Our language we speak is based on a code.. meaning... certain sounds put together to form certain words. All letters are symbols, pictures, squiggles on a page representing a certain sound. It is remarkable how we are able to get these children to read who were otherwise on a spiral downward path to failure.

Failure I say because without have the ability to read they are bound to a life of hell academically and of course we know that will impact them in every way shape and form.

Now... music is something that comes up alot during my tutoring sessions.. meaning I'm talking about sounds ... sounds that are loud, quiet, long and short... we talk about opera singers... about centering a note... and so forth. Much difficulty occurs in reading when a child is unable center the vowel 'notes'. They fluctuate in sounds between the short 'i' sound and the short 'e' sounds... or the short 'o' sound or the 'short 'u' sounds... since these sounds are very close in formation (articulation) in the mouth they are easily confused. That and having poor ability to recall sound is a nightmare happening within their ears.

OK... I"M STOPPPING>... bottom line... it's sound ... and music is sound... very powerful sound and put in the right order and combination it can move the human soul like nothing else. (thinking of Mozart here). I wish I understood it more deeply. I'm sure the whole science behind the structure of sound would absolute melt the very few 'neurons' i still have left floating around between my ears. I'm sure it's infinite beauty would almost be too much to grasp!

:wacko:

[dmiller]

Ala -- I hear ya about the *sound*

Pachelbel's Canon in D, is one of my favourites.

When I first heard it done

,

I thought it *heresy*.

But the more I listen to it, the better I like it!

:)

[A la prochaine]

:P it worked!

Edited February 15, 2007 by A la prochaine

[dmiller]

Thanks Ala. :)

And just for you -- here is a pic from my living room, into my dining room,

which is TOTALLY taken over by the piano! ;)

(a bit blurred -- but you get the idea!)

Edited February 15, 2007 by dmiller

[A la prochaine]

Mr. Music Man...

thank you ... your responses always affirm to me at least someone is listening -_-

Wanted to post something here for Valentines... something off the beaten track.

A JOURNEY INTO ALA'S YOUTUBE VORTEX!

So I started on my YouTube journey... of course ... and began with The Jayhawks... watched a few videos... fell into some Gary Louris videos ... watched a few of those...(lead singer for Jayhawks) then found a sight called Corporate Country Sucks (because there was a link from You Tube from one of the Gary Louris' videos .. most interesting station from Chicago that promotes non-mainstream music) ... stumbled across a few podcasts and interviews there... more time watching those.... then stumbled upon a band promoted as the Greatest Rock band in the World. ... called Drive By Truckers....interesting VERY interesting... sooo watched a few more videos and interviews. (by this time i'm on the television website and you tube is many many many windows away)... so i crawl outta there and go back to search for a some videos of the Drive By Truckers and LOW AND BEHOLD... they have a song called.. FEBRUARY 14th... go figure.

So here they are... Drive By Truckers

nice guitar work.

Edited February 15, 2007 by A la prochaine

[A la prochaine]

Mr. Music Man,

I'm touched -_-

Wow.. now that's not all your instruments... what about that beautiful mandolin that's part of your avatar?

But nonetheless, thank you so much for sharing your picture with me and all of us.

Love all that wear by the pick guard on your guitar (Martin right?) and on the banjo too... that's cool!!!

I just noticed I did a double post.. i'm gonna try to delete the first one... hmmmm

[dmiller]

Mr. Music Man,

I'm touched -_-

Wow.. now that's not all your instruments... what about that beautiful mandolin that's part of your avatar?

But nonetheless, thank you so much for sharing your picture with me and all of us.

Love all that wear by the pick guard on your guitar (Martin right?) and on the banjo too... that's cool!!!

I just noticed I did a double post.. i'm gonna try to delete the first one... hmmmm

That's not *wear by the pick guard". The pick guard is gone.

It came off years ago. That's the wood of the guitar itself.

I'm wearing a hole through it, like Willie has done to his. ;)

The avatar is a pic of Vassar Clement's fiddle, sadly -- not mine.

The peghead of my mandolin looks like this ---

and the close-up of the tuners on it ---

(Ps -- you'll have to contact Greasy Tech to get rid of that double post now).

We are allowed 12 hours only from posting time, for editing purposes.

Anything after that time limit, has to be done by a moderator.

Edited February 16, 2007 by dmiller

[A la prochaine]

I deleted that post in my own special way... when i went to edit i just deleted the whole thing and then i put a happy face instead...cause i know you can't just leave a post empty.

no moderator necessary.

OK.... i was thinking of that mandolin with those beautiful tuning pegs.. yup...that's it

and....

how's come you don't replace the pick guard?

and each time i listen to OLD CROW MEDICINE SHOW ... I think of you mr. music man!

[dmiller]

The guitar is a 1968 D-35 Martin. I got it for (about $500.00) in 1972 (I think).

The pick guard started coming off about 10 years later,

and knowing that if the glue was letting loose,

the pick guard would have to come off entirely,

that area of the guitar would need to be lightly sanded,

and then the pick guard re-glued.

So -- I took the pick guard off entirely.

Lightly sanded the surface of the guitar,

(only in the area where the pick guard goes),

and then did what I do best. I procrastinated.

I neglected to put the pick guard back on for a while,

and by the time I decided to do so -- the guitar sounded MUCH BETTER without it.

IMO -- the plastic pick guard glued to the top of the wood ---

impeded the vibrations and tone of the guitar overall.

This was a good guitar -- with the pick guard on it.

When it came off -- the guitar became EXCEPTIONAL!!

Loud. Good tone. Soft when you want it to be.

Things like that that made me forget to ever replace the thing, ever.

I'm no luthier, but I do know a few facts about acoustic instruments.

I do know that good grain in the wood helps transmit the vibrations,

from the strings when you strum them, and transmits that *sound*

throughout the body of the instrument, giving you the *tone*.

If you have a piece of plastic (ie -- a pickguard) glued on top of the wood,

that will be a detriment to the transmission of the vibrations through the wood of the instrument

when you strum (or pick), since it's glued to the top of the instrument,

and effectively hampering a really GOOD sound.

So -- short of the long of it is -- the pickguard came off.

I had every intention of putting it back on. I did the prep work.

I procrastinated. The guitar sounded better and better daily.

I repented of my *evil thoughts* of re-uniting wood and plastic,

and threw the pick guard in the trash.

I've never been sorry since I did that. :)

It looks rough, but sounds GOOD.

Edited February 16, 2007 by dmiller

[socks]

D-35's are nice dmiller! Great guitar.

That's illuminating on the sound difference. Good information.

Another point on the pickguard - at this point the guitar's "original", as is.

Pickguards have always bespuddled me - they really don't do much - unless you're Richie Havens I guess. Or Willie. I'm not an acoustic whacker strummer but I've played my Takamine archtop for 20 + years, and only have the lightest marks where the pickguard would be. I just figure it's normal wear, part of the aging of the instrument. I've never quite grasped the need to protect the wood at that spot, although the pickguard could be a design feature I guess, part of the look. But usually it's just a tweezey "tortoise shell" or black plastic anyway.

If anyone asks you can always say yeah, you wear through a pickguard a year, more or less.

I've got an old Ibanez solid body that's endures some serious hmmm, mod's. Modifications have left it rather weathered, but extremely playable. It does one thing, one sound well and that's it. I playt it every now and then, the neck has little finish on it anymore, but its' wide neck is the only one I like to do some stuff on so I leave it as is.

Nice chair too!

[dmiller]

MOVE OVER CHATTYKATHY -- I'VE GOT THE TOP OF THE PAGE!!!

:biglaugh:

Hey -- Here's a close-up pic of the *pick guard area".

I rubbed *wood friendly* oil into the area to moisturize it (many years ago),

so that is why it looks like there might still be a pick guard there.

The dark spot in the middle, is where the hole is being dug.

Woops -- that's kinda dark -- let's see if I can get a better shot.

Edited February 16, 2007 by dmiller

[dmiller]

Awwwwww -- the pics won't be happening tonight.

I need daylight to get a better pic of the *used to be* pickguard area.

[ChattyKathy]

David,

Wonderful picture and what a beautiful pick guard. Beautiful.

I'm also glad that in my come and go habits here that you are on the ball taking the top. Oh yeah baby....thanks for that one. ;)

I was just talking to my nephew on IM overseas and he broke his foot, but he's such a little toughie he said it doesn't hurt too much. :(

[A la prochaine]

mr. music man,

nice piano too...

hey... Martin D-35...wowza i can hear it now.

my guitar teacher's husband had a D-35... amazing sound. my teacher had a D-28... amazing as well... the D-35 was just bigger in body therefore bigger, boomier sound. This was in 1973-74... so same vintage.

k..... that's it.

:D

[dmiller]

Ala --- Martin made several *D* models (D stands for dreadnought),

notably the D-18, D-28, D-35, D-41, and D-45.

The "D" (or dreadnought style), refered to body size. They were all the same size.

The number designation (after the "D") -- let you know the quality of the guitar.

D-18 was a very good guitar, but lesser woods were used for it,

and there was no ornamental binding used on it (for the fingerboard, back, and sides).

D-28 was a bit better guitar, with better wood used,

and the fingerboard, back and sides had the ornamental binding.

D-35 had a 3-piece back (all the other's were 2 piece only),

better wood yet was used, and ornamental binding as well.

D-41 had a 2 pieced back, used superior wood, ornamental binding,

and also had fancy inlay on the neck, and mother-of-pearl around the top

(complementing the top binding.

D-45 was the ultimate in wood used, extra fancy inlay on the fingerboard,

with extra mother-of-pearl on the body of the guitar.

(two piece back on this one too.)

So -- they were all "D" models, but the number after the D told you what was used in it.

The higher the number, the better quality wood and workmanship.

Here's a pic of the D-35, and the 3-piece back:

Here's a pic of the D-45 (same size, superior wood and workmanship):

Closer pic of the D-45peghead:

And a closer pic of the inlay work:

Edited February 17, 2007 by dmiller