Or could it be a confession? He knew the evil that he done and wished he had done the right thing. That is the way I always took it. Of course when I first heard the saying, I was still in. I thought he was just saying he was not perfect enough. I had no idea at the time how unperfect he was.
Makes me think he knew what was right but said "to hell with what is right" during his life untill the last days.
I think you hit it on the head, ex! I think it was false humility. He fooled a lot of good people by pretending to be and pretending to wish to be the man he knew he could have or should have been.
Ya know, if one of US would have said to HIM that we WISHED anything, he'd have chewed us a new one - wish? Might as well try to say "create" or "Merry Christmas," or, God forbid, "Happy Easter!"
I think you hit it on the head, ex! I think it was false humility. He fooled a lot of good people by pretending to be and pretending to wish to be the man he knew he could have or should have been.
Ya know, if one of US would have said to HIM that we WISHED anything, he'd have chewed us a new one - wish? Might as well try to say "create" or "Merry Christmas," or, God forbid, "Happy Easter!"
He started saying this all the time about a year before he died - at first I thought it was weird, but then I thought about it and realized, he wasn't saying this out of humility. HP even wrote a song about it - that probably made it worse for him.
I never thought it had anything to do with any type of humility. I always had a feeling he had a terrible realization that he had royally and massively screwed up, and the end was near. I think he had a terrible pang of his conscious kicking in - maybe God even showed him. But I think he was scared. I think it was his way of hoping to God that he would have mercy on his soul and forgive him - VP felt sorry for himself a lot - no one else, just himself.
Imagine, facing the realization that your life has been a sham, the destruction you've done to young women and others around you, the money you made off of God's Word to spend on yourself. Something went off in his brain. No wonder, from what I've heard, he had the tv and basketball on the whole time before he died - he wouldn't have to think about anything or anyone. And instead of going peacefully, he was angry and "raged against the dying of the light." Not wanted to go where he was going. I really think he was somehow, brought to see fully the reality of what he had done, and therefore, wished he could take back his life and do it over, thus, his wishing to be the man HE KNEW to be.
He knew what he should have been, yet choose to eat, drink and be merry, while keeping his religious facade.
He started saying this all the time about a year before he died - at first I thought it was weird, but then I thought about it and realized, he wasn't saying this out of humility. HP even wrote a song about it - that probably made it worse for him.
I never thought it had anything to do with any type of humility. I always had a feeling he had a terrible realization that he had royally and massively screwed up, and the end was near. I think he had a terrible pang of his conscious kicking in - maybe God even showed him. But I think he was scared. I think it was his way of hoping to God that he would have mercy on his soul and forgive him - VP felt sorry for himself a lot - no one else, just himself.
Imagine, facing the realization that your life has been a sham, the destruction you've done to young women and others around you, the money you made off of God's Word to spend on yourself. Something went off in his brain. No wonder, from what I've heard, he had the tv and basketball on the whole time before he died - he wouldn't have to think about anything or anyone. And instead of going peacefully, he was angry and "raged against the dying of the light." Not wanted to go where he was going. I really think he was somehow, brought to see fully the reality of what he had done, and therefore, wished he could take back his life and do it over, thus, his wishing to be the man HE KNEW to be.
He knew what he should have been, yet choose to eat, drink and be merry, while keeping his religious facade.
Bingo
What does that mean? I'm intrigued.
IMO better for Sunesis to say it but I will give you my short version. In short he saw there was nothing he could do to right the wrongs he had done. JMHO
He started saying this all the time about a year before he died - at first I thought it was weird, but then I thought about it and realized, he wasn't saying this out of humility. HP even wrote a song about it - that probably made it worse for him.
I never thought it had anything to do with any type of humility. I always had a feeling he had a terrible realization that he had royally and massively screwed up, and the end was near. I think he had a terrible pang of his conscious kicking in - maybe God even showed him. But I think he was scared. I think it was his way of hoping to God that he would have mercy on his soul and forgive him - VP felt sorry for himself a lot - no one else, just himself.
Imagine, facing the realization that your life has been a sham, the destruction you've done to young women and others around you, the money you made off of God's Word to spend on yourself. Something went off in his brain. No wonder, from what I've heard, he had the tv and basketball on the whole time before he died - he wouldn't have to think about anything or anyone. And instead of going peacefully, he was angry and "raged against the dying of the light." Not wanted to go where he was going. I really think he was somehow, brought to see fully the reality of what he had done, and therefore, wished he could take back his life and do it over, thus, his wishing to be the man HE KNEW to be.
He knew what he should have been, yet choose to eat, drink and be merry, while keeping his religious facade.
Hm.
Interesting.
Of course, you can compare this to Pope John Paul II,
a man who was roundly condemned BY vpw.
Karol Wojtyla was a man who sought to do his best for God and to bless
God's people.
Was he perfect? No. Was his doctrine perfect? No.
However, if he had his life to do over again, there are fairly
few improvements he could have made to perform as a
"better" man. Even in his dying moments, he sought to
bless God's people. (He raised his hand in benediction to the
window-as if praying for the world or the people outside,
then lowered his hand, and then he "fell asleep.")
NON-Catholics (like myself) were sorry to see his passage,
and expressed their sorrow all around the world.
In short, Karol Wojtyla was the man he knew himself to be.
VPW attempted to reach a point of humility very late in his life and the epitaph didn't really fit. VPW was many things but hunble wasn't one of them.
An epitaph is supposed to sum up one's philosophy or approach to life or at least be a summary of what the person accomplished. In this case I view VPW's epitaph as a plea or a statement on what he wished he could have been because he certainly wasn't a humble man while living. And if the VPW fanatics start foaming with rage in reaction to such a comment I must remind them that VPW lied to us and willingly deceived many about the nature of his illness. Hell. The leaders wouldn't even admit that he was ill. They just claimed that the eyepatch was to provide some "relief". But as the head of TWI he could have been open and up front about his problem, and had he been, I'm quite certain that most would have been very supportive. But he avoided that and chose the path of deception to preserve the "teachings" in PFAL to avoid penetrating discussions on why he had cancer. After all it was VPW who taught us that cancer was a "devil spirit".
VPW also taught us that "believing equals receiving" but for some reason no one criticized Vic for not having enought believing to get delivered. Now again, before the VPW suckups choke on their bile about this, I distinctly recall the death of my friend who was twice a WOW. All that most of the leadership would say (the ones who cared enought to comment) about him was "well his believing just wasn't there". Yet when VPW died they wanted to act like it was equivalent to the death of Christ. To this day it really makes me mad that there was and is a double standard. VPW was let off the hook and as far as most of his followers are concerned , he is sitting on the right hand of God in place of JC. But if a person on the field fell ill then they wanted to make it seem like that person was some kind of demon possessed reprobate who was too weak to get delivered.
I take no joy in the death of anyone. But its a source of extreme displeasure for me that anyone would think that VPW died as some kind of supreme example of humilty. That would be a supreme joke. He loved the limelight and he couldn't get enough of it.
I too wish "he coul d have been the man he wished to be". If that had happened I wouldn't be posting here now.......
VPW also taught us that "believing equals receiving" but for some reason no one criticized Vic for not having enought believing to get delivered. Now again, before the VPW suckups choke on their bile about this, I distinctly recall the death of my friend who was twice a WOW. All that most of the leadership would say (the ones who cared enought to comment) about him was "well his believing just wasn't there".
Yet when VPW died they wanted to act like it was equivalent to the death of Christ. To this day it really makes me mad that there was and is a double standard. VPW was let off the hook and as far as most of his followers are concerned , he is sitting on the right hand of God in place of JC.
But if a person on the field fell ill then they wanted to make it seem like that person was some kind of demon possessed reprobate who was too weak to get delivered.
I take no joy in the death of anyone. But its a source of extreme displeasure for me that anyone would think that VPW died as some kind of supreme example of humilty. That would be a supreme joke. He loved the limelight and he couldn't get enough of it.
I too wish "he could have been the man he wished to be". If that had happened I wouldn't be posting here now.......
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markomalley
His epitaph is, as you so eloquently pointed out, perfectly consistent with the theology he not only preached but lived.
Me.
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excathedra
i think he used to say it so we would feel "oh what a wonderful humble mog, he makes me cry"
he wanted to get us to feel emotionally feeling "sorry" for him (you know what i mean)
i don't think it was his grave marker necessarily when he said it
he just wanted us to think he was humble when he really wasn't
am i saying this right ?
oh well
i wish he was another man ;)
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Tom Strange
haha... you're doing just fine...
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dmiller
If he wanted to be the man he *knew to be*,
then that meant he had to *do*
The eternal question ~~~
To do?
To be?
To do?
To be?
To do?
Answer ~~~
DOOBE DOOBE DOO. :blink:
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excathedra
so you think it's funny d ?
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dmiller
In a sad way --- yes. :(
Maybe *ironic* would be a better way of putting it. <_<
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excathedra
you're probably right. no offense intended
i just wish i never met the man he wished he was
or..... the man he wished he wasn't ?
gets confusing
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shazdancer
Thank you, Frank Sinatra.
dmiller, that was a very old joke!
;)
Shaz
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excathedra
i knew the joke
i just get oversensitive at times
sorry
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coolchef1248 @adelphia.net
well he sure did it "his way" the ##@!$^&*
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justloafing
Or could it be a confession? He knew the evil that he done and wished he had done the right thing. That is the way I always took it. Of course when I first heard the saying, I was still in. I thought he was just saying he was not perfect enough. I had no idea at the time how unperfect he was.
Makes me think he knew what was right but said "to hell with what is right" during his life untill the last days.
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skyrider
Or could it be that wierwille was saying.......
I wish I were THE MAN.
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bowtwi
I think you hit it on the head, ex! I think it was false humility. He fooled a lot of good people by pretending to be and pretending to wish to be the man he knew he could have or should have been.
Ya know, if one of US would have said to HIM that we WISHED anything, he'd have chewed us a new one - wish? Might as well try to say "create" or "Merry Christmas," or, God forbid, "Happy Easter!"
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WordWolf
Bingo.
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topoftheworld
Remember "Life Lines"? Field contributions of favorite Weirwille sayings? That quote is one that is listed, but believe or not, this is another.
"Stay sweet, honey."
Seems harmless enough-until taken in context with his unmasked lifestyle.
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Sunesis
He started saying this all the time about a year before he died - at first I thought it was weird, but then I thought about it and realized, he wasn't saying this out of humility. HP even wrote a song about it - that probably made it worse for him.
I never thought it had anything to do with any type of humility. I always had a feeling he had a terrible realization that he had royally and massively screwed up, and the end was near. I think he had a terrible pang of his conscious kicking in - maybe God even showed him. But I think he was scared. I think it was his way of hoping to God that he would have mercy on his soul and forgive him - VP felt sorry for himself a lot - no one else, just himself.
Imagine, facing the realization that your life has been a sham, the destruction you've done to young women and others around you, the money you made off of God's Word to spend on yourself. Something went off in his brain. No wonder, from what I've heard, he had the tv and basketball on the whole time before he died - he wouldn't have to think about anything or anyone. And instead of going peacefully, he was angry and "raged against the dying of the light." Not wanted to go where he was going. I really think he was somehow, brought to see fully the reality of what he had done, and therefore, wished he could take back his life and do it over, thus, his wishing to be the man HE KNEW to be.
He knew what he should have been, yet choose to eat, drink and be merry, while keeping his religious facade.
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oldiesman
What does that mean? I'm intrigued.
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justloafing
Bingo
IMO better for Sunesis to say it but I will give you my short version. In short he saw there was nothing he could do to right the wrongs he had done. JMHO
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oldiesman
I have the feeling he may have been depressed instead of angry and raged about it.
oh well ... we won't know until the bema.
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WordWolf
Hm.
Interesting.
Of course, you can compare this to Pope John Paul II,
a man who was roundly condemned BY vpw.
Karol Wojtyla was a man who sought to do his best for God and to bless
God's people.
Was he perfect? No. Was his doctrine perfect? No.
However, if he had his life to do over again, there are fairly
few improvements he could have made to perform as a
"better" man. Even in his dying moments, he sought to
bless God's people. (He raised his hand in benediction to the
window-as if praying for the world or the people outside,
then lowered his hand, and then he "fell asleep.")
NON-Catholics (like myself) were sorry to see his passage,
and expressed their sorrow all around the world.
In short, Karol Wojtyla was the man he knew himself to be.
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WordWolf
===
Oh, BTW, Oakspear,
thought you'd find this interesting.
In police procedures, if a criminal, in the course of being captured,
is fatally shot and is dying,
I've read that it is in the procedures to inform the criminal that
he's dying,
so that, if he wants to clear his conscience before meeting his Maker,
he can do so.
It certainly might make it easier to question him.
People, when they see death approaching,
often get very philosophical,
and look back on the good and ill they performed in life.
You might find this short-story interesting along those
lines. I read it in high school.
It's called
"the Contents of the Dead Man's Pockets".
http://www.is.wayne.edu/mnissani/2030/Deadman.htm
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diazbro
VPW attempted to reach a point of humility very late in his life and the epitaph didn't really fit. VPW was many things but hunble wasn't one of them.
An epitaph is supposed to sum up one's philosophy or approach to life or at least be a summary of what the person accomplished. In this case I view VPW's epitaph as a plea or a statement on what he wished he could have been because he certainly wasn't a humble man while living. And if the VPW fanatics start foaming with rage in reaction to such a comment I must remind them that VPW lied to us and willingly deceived many about the nature of his illness. Hell. The leaders wouldn't even admit that he was ill. They just claimed that the eyepatch was to provide some "relief". But as the head of TWI he could have been open and up front about his problem, and had he been, I'm quite certain that most would have been very supportive. But he avoided that and chose the path of deception to preserve the "teachings" in PFAL to avoid penetrating discussions on why he had cancer. After all it was VPW who taught us that cancer was a "devil spirit".
VPW also taught us that "believing equals receiving" but for some reason no one criticized Vic for not having enought believing to get delivered. Now again, before the VPW suckups choke on their bile about this, I distinctly recall the death of my friend who was twice a WOW. All that most of the leadership would say (the ones who cared enought to comment) about him was "well his believing just wasn't there". Yet when VPW died they wanted to act like it was equivalent to the death of Christ. To this day it really makes me mad that there was and is a double standard. VPW was let off the hook and as far as most of his followers are concerned , he is sitting on the right hand of God in place of JC. But if a person on the field fell ill then they wanted to make it seem like that person was some kind of demon possessed reprobate who was too weak to get delivered.
I take no joy in the death of anyone. But its a source of extreme displeasure for me that anyone would think that VPW died as some kind of supreme example of humilty. That would be a supreme joke. He loved the limelight and he couldn't get enough of it.
I too wish "he coul d have been the man he wished to be". If that had happened I wouldn't be posting here now.......
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excathedra
a megalomaniac to the end
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dmiller
Diazbro ~~~ Very well said. Thank you.
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