Made-up stories in teaching.

[WordWolf]

Ok, this is spinning off of a different discussion.

Here's what you missed so far.....

When someone is doing a sermon/homily/teaching,

it is not uncommon for them to use an illustration of a point

they are trying to make.

Sometimes the illustrations are actual-from historical accounts,

eyewitness accounts, and so on.

The account of George Mueller on-board the fogged-in vessel

"the Sardian", for example, was told and vetted by the captain

of the vessel himself. Using this as an illustration is not a problem

to most people.

I've told a story as if it has happened to me-but invariably end it

by saying "ok, that never happened", and then explaining the

illustration (as if it needed it), and I've told anyone who asked

its origin.

Sometimes, the speaker will preface the story by saying it's a

story. Sometimes, it will seem obvious in the telling

(to most people, but, I've discovered, not all.)

So,

this thread.

Please discuss this subject from all angles.

Do you like these stories? Why?

Do you dislike these stories? Why?

What's your favourite?

Which one do you hate the most?

Which ones fooled you at the time?

Which ones surprised you that others were fooled?

[WordWolf]

I'll start off by telling one that happened to me one night last summer.

I had a lot of time on my hands, so I took a long walk.

To be specific, I crossed the footbridge on the Willis Avenue Bridge.

That one connects Manhattan to the South Bronx.

Anyway, I was possibly halfway across the bridge when I saw a guy

on the footbridge, over past the security railings, as if he was

getting ready to jump. I closed in on him until I was close enough

to pull him clear if he tried to jump, and tried to talk him into coming

down. We spoke at length. Eventually, we got to what was bothering

him.

"No one loves me!"

"GOD loves you, you nit!"

"You know, I DO believe in God."

"Really? Are you a Christian?"

"Yes."

"Really? Me too. Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

"Protestant."

"Really? Me too. What franchise?"

"Baptist."

"Me too. Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?"

"Northern Baptist."

"Me too. Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?"

"Northern Conservative Baptist."

"Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, or Northern Conservative Reform Baptist?"

Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist."

"Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region,

or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region?"

"Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist Eastern Region."

"Me too. Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1893,

or Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912?"

"Northern Conservative Fundamentalist Baptist, Great Lakes Region, Council of 1912."

"DIE HERETIC!" and I shoved him off the bridge.

========

Ok, of course, that never happened. (Thank God.)

And I should change that story soon, since they're thinking of retiring that bridge.

The point-for anyone who missed it-

was the swiftness which some Christians will condemn and attack other Christians

with whom they have almost everything in common,

and for whom Christ died.

But I didn't feel it was unfair to leave out "my" story.

("My" story which was first told by Emo Phillips on his album, E=MO2".

Although I added the name of the bridge and swapped the Great

Lakes and Eastern region answers.)

I think few people would fault me for telling this story-especially since I

say "that was a made-up story" at the end.

[WordWolf]

For those who would like some,

there's a whole bunch of similar stories here:

http://www.snopes.com/glurge/glurge.asp

A few of them, as you'll see, are actually true.

[markomalley]

There's enough reality where a truly diligent person would be able to:

a. Keep a newspaper clipping file

b. Caveat stories with "I remember hearing about.....a while back" (thus indicating that they could be legend, could be a valuable parable, or whatever)

c. Refer to generic experiences that happened in the past ("I remember when...")

As long as one of the above is done, I see no harm with fictional stories being used to illustrate a useful moral lesson. The only harm happens when a fictional story (or one of questionable pedigree) is presented as verifiable fact and is lauded above the moral lesson it is supposed to illustrate.

[WordWolf]

Before I forget,

I've been instructed, very matter of factly,

that the phrase "put your shoulder to the wheel"

comes from an Eastern custom involving a condemned man.

I ignored the person telling me that, since I already

knew the source was "Aesop's Fables."

===

"A farmer was driving his wagon along a country road when the wheels sank deeply

into the mud. The farmer stared at the wagon, then began calling out for

Hercules to come and help him.

Hercules appeared and spoke to the farmer.

"PUT YOUR SHOULDER TO THE WHEEL OF THE CART.

MAKE YOUR OXEN PULL WHILE YOU PUSH.

NEVER PRAY TO ME FOR HELP UNTIL YOU HAVE DONE EVERYTHING YOU CAN

TO HELP YOURSELF.

THE GODS HELP THOSE WHO HELP THEMSELVES."

======

For those of you who are wondering,

this little story is also the origin of the saying

"God helps those who help themselves",

which-as you know-does NOT appear in the Bible.

[topoftheworld]

Nothing wrong with using allegories to shed light on some point you are making-as long as it is clear to your audience that it is just that. Aesop's Fables was a colllection of great stories used to illustrate various points: but the title of the book made it clear to the reader that these were "FABLES". If you make you audience believe your story is true (by adding a word, changing a word, or deleting a word) then the story spreads as truth.

Hell, the subject of the previous thread involved a story I bought hook line and sinker as the truth-and I even used it while witnessing if the subject of organized religion came up. Now, of course, I feel like an idiot.

Anybody see the movie "Fargo"? Remember that it starts with the claim that this was a true story? Wasn't 'til I got the DVD that I discovered the whole thing was made up: the scrrenwriters decided by "claiming" it was true, the audience would buy into the tale more easily. And it became a great hit.

In teaching-well, there are enough "stories" in the bible that making stuff up is pointless. If someone needs to make a story relevant in present days terms, great: but as Mark said, it must be presented correctly.

Edited March 9, 2006 by topoftheworld

[Tom Strange]

"Fargo" wasn't true?

[rhino]

"Fargo" wasn't true?

dammit .. i want my money back ... lol oh, i just saw it on TV

... ah guess that's ya partna thar in tha wood choppa

[Tom Strange]

hey... is it a rule that whenever Frances McDormand does a movie that she gets nominated for an academy award... oops! wrong thread...

[Raf]

I don't have a problem with apocryphal stories being told to make a point, and I don't always think you need a "this didn't REALLY happen, but I'm just using this illustration" to do it. Were Jesus' parables understood to be strictly illustrative? I don't see any disclaimers on his stories, but I never figured on these things actually having taken place.

A little discernment on the part of the reader/listener is called for.

[themex]

I agree with Rafa I do not have a problem with them. I also like most of them. :D

[mstar1]

I'll agree with Mark in that there is more than enough real things happening out there to illustrate a point but I also dont see any harm in illustrating apoint with a story or a fable of some kind but be honest about it--dont try to slip by me as one of your honest experiences

I have heard several speakers tell the exact same story as if it is true and it really happened . The first time it may be interesting, the second time I hear it from someone else I feel ripped off and perturbed by both speakers who not only tried to slip one by me--but also pointed out their own lack of imagination in having to resort to something canned... which irks me especially in any religious type context when I am expecting to hear truth.

If its a comedian, or a storyteller (like Garrison Keillor) i am expecting them to stretch and make up things -so its a much different story. Even in a teaching context its Ok in my book to a certain extent just dont try to sincerely pass it off as real--Then you are just another liar and that will be the only point you will be making with me

[shazdancer]

Hi WW,

I think tale-telling can be made clear by several means other than saying, "This is phony:" by body language (wink, wink), by tone of voice, by situation, by reputation (comedians), or by the absurdity of the facts. Your bridge jumper joke (heard it before) fits that last bill.

When Wierwille talked about Johnny Jump-up or Maggie Muggins, no one thought he was speaking the truth.

But when a tale-teller declares something in a truthful manner to give himself validity, now there is a problem. Yes, I'm talking about fairytale snowstorms.

Regards,

Shaz