If we're going to talk about "signing contracts" and "commitments to organizations".......then the brochure should have stated......... A Lifetime of TWI Service.
Exactly, Twig Leaders for a lifetime of service in The Way. Do you know anyone else that has Twigs?
Nice switch but that was not the subject Sky we were looking at a lifetime of service which the print in the brochure apparently gives you a problem reconciling so of course lets talk about moral issues because we can not explain why that little thing called printed evidence exists. Darn that print it just gets in the way of what I want it to say.
If we're going to talk about "signing contracts" and "commitments to organizations".......then the brochure should have stated......... A Lifetime of TWI Service.
Gee they pretty much did I'd say.
A Lifetime of Service.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
Well, TWI equated "Christian" with TWI, so by saying that the Way Corps prepared you for a "Lifetime of Christian Service", they meant (and there was no mystery about it) "A Lifetime of TWI Service".
However...their definition of "service" was where the bait & switch lie.
A slogan (which is all that "A Lifetime of Christian Service" is) is not a contract, is not a description, is in no way complete. It's as vague and ephemeral as "Word Over The World" - which was never defined either.
I saw it it was not worth the time it was so pathetic. As I said before over the years the wording changed some but the intent was clear So fine A lifetime of Christian service running a fellowship whatever they called it from year to year. They expected you to serve running a fellowship, twig fellowship ,household fellowship call it what you want but they expected you to serve as a leader.
Speaking of missing the point have you figured out what to do with this yet?
A Lifetime of Service.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
I didn't think so.....
And you were incorrect.
I figured that if you're trying to train LEADERS-as their CLAIM was
despite an absence of anyone with experience running or TAKING
any leadership training-
then you're training the leader to first
A) work autonomously
A Leader who second-guesses HIMSELF all the time is double-minded
and unstable in all his ways.
(The reality was that they WANTED leaders to be anything BUT
autonomous-which we can see from the RESULTS-inculcation
of blind loyalty.)
and then secondarily
B) lead others
A leader must, by definition, LEAD. That means he is expected to
make decisions, and is REQUIRED to do so.
(Of course, in twi, all decisions had to be notarized by a higher-up,
or you might be in trouble. Then again, if they agreed with you,
"God will cover.")
So,
a Christian is trained to lead in a program, then leaves the program.
He is now able to use the skills he learned (presuming he learned any)
as an asset to the body of Christ.
It is HIS DISCRETION as to where that is done-as he seeks God's guidance
directly, and makes decisions accordingly.
=======
Of course,
there ARE orders where Christians make lifelong commitments to
go where they are told to go,
serve where they are told to serve,
and leave when they are told to leave.
Those are referred to by many names,
among them Holy Orders, the Priesthood, and so on.
Now, THOSE people don't just make ONE decision to enter
one program and now they're the property of the organization.
(No matter WHAT you were told.)
They receive training, and counseling.
They are questioned as to their commitment and reasoning.
They receive more training, and are REQUIRED to
meditate upon, and consider deeply, over and over,
the consequences of their decision.
It is FAR better for the organization to lose 90% of their
candidates than for them to place unstable, corrupt people
in all their offices.
Those that decide to go ahead swear their oaths,
and leave modern society, in a sense.
THEY'VE sworn oaths of poverty and chastity and stuff
I don't know about because I've never sworn their oaths.
Now,
THEY signed up for a lifetime serving their organization.
That's very different from, say, being a leader who runs
a twig for 5 years, then coordinates the next 4 classes,
then smooths things over for the new Limb leader,
then steps back and helps younger hands learn the basic
skills of leading, then returns to run a twig for a few
years again, then "semi-retires" and remains available
to advise other, newer leaders.
Now, did he serve a lifetime? Yes.
Was it in Christian service? Yes.
Was it where the ministry needed him? Yes.
Is WD going to say "You've made a good point?" No.
But to most people, the difference, once pointed out, should be obvious.
Well, TWI equated "Christian" with TWI, so by saying that the Way Corps prepared you for a "Lifetime of Christian Service", they meant (and there was no mystery about it) "A Lifetime of TWI Service".
However...their definition of "service" was where the bait & switch lie.
A slogan (which is all that "A Lifetime of Christian Service" is) is not a contract, is not a description, is in no way complete. It's as vague and ephemeral as "Word Over The World" - which was never defined either.
Because you at least are honest enough to admit to their intent I'd love to dig through tapes and printed matter all weekend, BUT damn it's a nice day out and really what would be the point except to waste my weekend . The truth and deep down I think you know it is, no matter how many pages of quotes I'd print it would be picked apart word by word comma by comma. Anything printed can be that’s why we have attorneys. The truth is The Way was about training leaders in the Corps program. they would not have spent the money printing materials that were not representative of the program. They wanted people to sell out to the ministry and they made no bones about telling people every chance they got. The Corps especially was the place to let this be known. That said all of us here have departed from the intent of that program service to the Way in a leadership capacity. That's ok! In fact it’s a good thing , and they departed from what they said also. So were even!
Many have gone on to serve God in other capacities, some have not, That does not however change the fact that most people that went through the program I believe if asked had no doubt that they were in it for a long haul and not two or three years and then you were done. It makes no sense to expend the time to train people that are not going to serve any time for them after graduation. there is no benefit to them to do that and as the track record shows they did things to benefit their organization. If you went in thinking only of the nametag and the glory of being a "heavy" then you went in for the wrong reason. Id agree that given the age of most it was an unrealistic even stupid thing to expect, but none the less I still see from the print that was what they clearly expected.
Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
not what someone thinks are the needs, they may be right or they may be wrong in their guess. I would say to be sure one would consult those in charge as they would logically know. Which is the way it was set up they decide the needs and assign people accordingly. Kind of like the way it is in the real world too your boss tells you the needs you do them not the other way around yes he may ask your input but the final word is his.
Not what someone thinks are the needs, they may be right or they may be wrong in their guess.
That's true whether the distinction is made by the individual leader
or the leader he answers to.
If the trained leader is trusted that little, then I suppose he's not
going to be the one to make the call. If so, why waste 4 years of
training on him, only to micro-manage him?
I would say to be sure one would consult those in charge as they would logically know.
Not necessarily.
Local needs may change DAY TO DAY.
Someone trained as a problem-solver or a troubleshooter in ANY field
needs to adapt to accomplish various tasks as they need doing.
Area leaders concentrate on the big picture, and watch the area
in a more general way. They anticipate general needs-and those
may be wrong. It is up to those operating locally to evaluate the
situations they are in, determine the best course of action,
then carry it out. Many times that may involve keeping others informed,
but that is NOT a requirement.
Of course, you could easily say
"well, the area leader's supposed to listen for divine revelation and anticipate
accordingly", but the obvious answer to that is that
"the local leader's supposed to do the same, which returns the situation
to the general overseer and the local operator.
Which is the way it was set up they decide the needs and assign people accordingly. Kind of like the way it is in the real world too your boss tells you the needs you do them not the other way around yes he may ask your input but the final word is his.
Wrong analogy.
A boss and a worker is different from
a boss and a supervisor.
Both are leaders, and they have specific tasks,
to which the other may be poorly suited.
If a boss has to KEEP directing the supervisor ALL THE TIME,
it reflects a lack of confidence in them to supervise,
and is called MICRO-MANAGEMENT.
Bosses do not LIKE having to supervise-it means someone
else isn't doing their job.
Or, you could say that the boss has to oversee an entire
department or company,
while the supervisor must oversee specifics at the moment,
and may need to break the rules or disregard them depending
Because you at least are honest enough to admit to their intent I'd love to dig through tapes and printed matter all weekend, BUT damn it's a nice day out and really what would be the point except to waste my weekend .
Enjoy your weekend. It's a beautiful day here! Don't want you to do any digging. That brochure would be interesting to look at though.
I still think that their stated intent was very different than how it all turned out.
So, then, we reached an impasse, and agree to disagree
WW you would argue the sun did not exist if you had an axe to grind with it . (By the way that's another FOS there) It does not make it true just true you don't want to acknowledge it. Even Lindy understood what they were saying and asking for, so fine argue all you want truth is still truth the print don't lie.
Quote Lindy
But what a crazy thing to ask of someone, a LIFETIME of service in a group. Especially when the majority of corps applicants are fairly young. It is insane to think a young person won't change their mind as they get older.
I saw it it was not worth the time it was so pathetic. As I said before over the years the wording changed some but the intent was clear So fine A lifetime of Christian service running a fellowship whatever they called it from year to year. They expected you to serve running a fellowship, twig fellowship ,household fellowship call it what you want but they expected you to serve as a leader.
Speaking of missing the point have you figured out what to do with this yet?
A Lifetime of Service.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
I didn't think so.....
......"depends on the needs of the ministry."
Hell.......with THAT generic terminology.........LCM demanded SEX to "bless" the mog which would in turn support the "needs of the ministry."
Even Lindy understood what they were saying and asking for
Yes, EVEN me. I'll assume you didn't mean that the way it sounded.
I believe that when my parents signed us up for the family corps they knew it was going to be a LIFETIME of service to the ministry. I think they knew it meant we would be moving every 3 to 5 years. They still wanted to do it. I doubt at the time they thought that training and position could be yanked out from under them the way it was. If they were allowed they would still want to be corps today.
I do wonder what sort of contract there was if any. What was on the application? What was on the paper you signed etc.?
I do think that most people didn't expect that they were now required to jump when asked to jump and right on their daily schedule when they had a "movement" and submit it for review. FOS of course.
We were family corps though. That meant had a family and usually meant you were a little older than the regular corps folks. The Emploria and Gunnison people seemed to be younger people generaly...20 somethings a lot of the time. Most of the time people don't grow up to be the people they were when they were twenty. This includes career, interests, and beliefs. Was it an honest thing to ask of a young person to commit their life to the ministry, or was it something they knew young people would be psyched for without being able to honestly evaluate a decision that affected the rest of their life.
My wife went to one Way function. The thing that freaked her out the most was something my old roomy said in response to her comment on how nice it was with all the young kids around. He said, "It's good to get them while their young." It sounds like a f'd up thing to say and at the time I tried to rationalise it and say he was kind of joking, but he wasn't.
Looking at these MySpace sites, I think of this. Get em' while their young. They have no idea yet think they've got it down. I used to think I knew more "Word" than most priests. Boy was I wrong.
I also brought this up in like of the many people that come here that want to leave but are with spouses that either don't know about how they feel or don't want to leave. There is a fear that isn't unrealistic that the marriage would be at risk to bring up such a topic. I also think of the people in this situation that are corps.
I have more thoughts on the subject and on the things already said, but I have to go. So maybe later. For now though, I think it is important to know what was printed, said, and implied by your corps commitment and what people felt they were getting into. I don't think it is all the same and I don't think the wrong impression is solely the corps applicant's lack of reading comprehension.
Groucho - I was two years earlier than you which means you are WAY too old to remember that kind of detail...:) This is my first post here so let me see how much trouble I get myself into. I left in 1987 after attending the infamous Chris Geer clergy meeting at twi HQ. It was pretty obvious things had gone south for some time - but that meeting was like looking into a sewer. Back to the topic of the post:
For the 8th corps they were still promoting the corps as twig leader training. Of course, everyone had higher expectations based on the percentage of graduates getting larger "assignments." There had been a pretty explosive growth in the mid-late 70's through early 80's and most graduated to larger assignments.
HOWEVER.... this promoted a mentality that when assignments were announced and some poor stoshu got only a twig leader assignment they were viwed as a failure of some sort or other - just like the mentality of "the right stuff."
Lessee - if you are serious about God - whatever your version - then a "lifetime of service" TO GOD - makes sense. Ya know if you believe in something that powerful then what else are you going to do? BUT BUT BUT - who defines the services? LCM? VPW? The pope? Bin Laden? Well logic ought to dictate no - but somehow all over the world people are duped into letting their designated conduit to Got determine their service, what (branch leader, stolen 767 pilot) where (Oakland, New York City), when (1985, Sep 11 2001),
how (blind faith, blind faith) etc - My $0.02
"...And another thing that bugged the &$*# out of me while in residence, were their bait and switch
tactics. When I signed up, I made a FOUR YEAR commitment. That was it! It was optional to take
assignments upon graduation...at least, that's what they said in WRITING! A couple of months into
the training, at Emporia, they tell us all that we have made a LIFETIME commitment to the corps!...
and if we don't 'understand THAT'...then we are 'spiritually out to lunch'.
I sat there listening to this crap, muttering under my breath that I only committed for 4 years,
getting angrier by the moment as everybody just sat there with a glazed look on their faces
saying 'yup, yup'..not me! I regret not packing my stuff up and splitting right then and there!"
Whether or not they misrepresented the commitment for the Way Corps, I wouldn't know. I never sat through the Corpse training.
One thing I do know, though, is that all Christians are called to a lifetime of service consistent with their stations in life. Note the caveat, consistent with their stations in life. Also, please note I said service, not unpaid employment or slavery.
So the tag line, a lifetime of service, to me sounds entirely reasonable. But from what you tell me, the reality had only a marginal resemblence to to the tag line.
people in young adulthood are not knowledgable (although more so today with the internet ) about life choices and agendas.
we trust at that age because frankly most of us do not know any better, it is good thing, (all the new adventures are fun!) ! just leaving the safety of the home, but dangerous when people want to use that as a means to their end.
We often get married in our twenties but to a person our own age with our own likes and mindsets, hopefully and then the marriage grows up together.
how does one really grow into a whole person if having made such a commintment to twi.. they are told you can not ?
Wrong word Sky! like Eve you changed a word, but nice try! It said where they serve not how they serve. That makes the big difference. You conveniently edited it to say what you wanted, Dishonest and not generic when you use the full statement in context. But then you knew that so rather than deal with the printed truth you misquote it . I bet that would work in court Yer honor I don't have an explanation for the defenses evidence so I'll just change it is that ok? duh........
Since I graduated from the way corps program........
Twi changed................presidents.
Twi changed................and the founding president died of cancer (a devil spirit???)
Twi changed................the wow program to the WAY DISCIPLE (confrontation) program.
Twi changed................and cancelled the rock of ages.
Twi changed................and HUGE in-fighting among martindale and cgeer.
Twi changed................and THOUSANDS of way corps leadership exited.
Twi changed................to a homo-witch hunt.
Twi changed................their policy on home mortgages from The Way Credit Union.
Twi changed................to a present-truth knee jerk philosophy.
Twi changed................to an inner-circle, only spiritually mature people can handle adultery.
Twi changed................to a micro-managed, tell-us-when-you-have sex-with-your-spouse outfit.
Twi changed................AND THE CORPS DIRECTOR WAS OUSTED via twi lawyer advice.
Twi changed................and the WAP class was an dismal failure.
Twi changed................and rosalie knew of Craiggers sex episodes since 1995.
Twi changed................and the corps program is utterly pathetic.
Twi changed................to a "gentler, kinder ministry" in desperation of abs.
Twi changed................and this month, their attempt at a 3rd foundational class is starting up.
And whitedove.............YOU challenge me on emphasizing ONE POINT and taking it out of context. Hell, twi is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT to the ministry of its former self.
......we were looking at a lifetime of service which the print in the brochure apparently gives you a problem reconciling so of course lets talk about moral issues because we can not explain why that little thing called printed evidence exists. Darn that print it just gets in the way of what I want it to say.
This is just too good to pass up.
"Darn that print it just gets in the way of what I want it to say."
Sounds like something the trustees would say............Darn that printed scripture it just gets in the way of what I want.
And whitedove.............YOU challenge me on emphasizing ONE POINT and taking it out of context. Hell, twi is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT to the ministry of its former self.
That does not make something else not true now does it Two issues!! What the brochure said / The state of the way now. This is not mix and match answers night . Yes I did challenge your misuse of what was said. Which was the topic at hand by the way not the state of the way. Or course as I said if you can't reconcile your opinion of how you want things to read with the truth then I suppose you will stoop to any low to try to justify your point. It sucks when you know your wrong and you have to deal with the truth.
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skyrider
And one more thing......
If we're going to talk about "signing contracts" and "commitments to organizations".......then the brochure should have stated......... A Lifetime of TWI Service.
whitedove........fyi
Twi NO LONGER has twigs.
Twi DOES HAVE....household fellowships.
I rest my case.
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WhiteDove
Nice switch but that was not the subject Sky we were looking at a lifetime of service which the print in the brochure apparently gives you a problem reconciling so of course lets talk about moral issues because we can not explain why that little thing called printed evidence exists. Darn that print it just gets in the way of what I want it to say.
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WhiteDove
Gee they pretty much did I'd say.
A Lifetime of Service.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
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Oakspear
Well, TWI equated "Christian" with TWI, so by saying that the Way Corps prepared you for a "Lifetime of Christian Service", they meant (and there was no mystery about it) "A Lifetime of TWI Service".
However...their definition of "service" was where the bait & switch lie.
A slogan (which is all that "A Lifetime of Christian Service" is) is not a contract, is not a description, is in no way complete. It's as vague and ephemeral as "Word Over The World" - which was never defined either.
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skyrider
whitedove,
In case you missed this......
TWI NO LONGER HAS TWIGS.
Twig coordinators are NO LONGER needed!!!!!!!!!!!!
The board of trustees said so back in 1992.
Nice sidestep, though.
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WhiteDove
I saw it it was not worth the time it was so pathetic. As I said before over the years the wording changed some but the intent was clear So fine A lifetime of Christian service running a fellowship whatever they called it from year to year. They expected you to serve running a fellowship, twig fellowship ,household fellowship call it what you want but they expected you to serve as a leader.
Speaking of missing the point have you figured out what to do with this yet?
A Lifetime of Service.
Graduates of the Way Corps go forth to serve in areas of concern,interest and need. Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry.
I didn't think so.....
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WordWolf
And you were incorrect.
I figured that if you're trying to train LEADERS-as their CLAIM was
despite an absence of anyone with experience running or TAKING
any leadership training-
then you're training the leader to first
A) work autonomously
A Leader who second-guesses HIMSELF all the time is double-minded
and unstable in all his ways.
(The reality was that they WANTED leaders to be anything BUT
autonomous-which we can see from the RESULTS-inculcation
of blind loyalty.)
and then secondarily
B) lead others
A leader must, by definition, LEAD. That means he is expected to
make decisions, and is REQUIRED to do so.
(Of course, in twi, all decisions had to be notarized by a higher-up,
or you might be in trouble. Then again, if they agreed with you,
"God will cover.")
So,
a Christian is trained to lead in a program, then leaves the program.
He is now able to use the skills he learned (presuming he learned any)
as an asset to the body of Christ.
It is HIS DISCRETION as to where that is done-as he seeks God's guidance
directly, and makes decisions accordingly.
=======
Of course,
there ARE orders where Christians make lifelong commitments to
go where they are told to go,
serve where they are told to serve,
and leave when they are told to leave.
Those are referred to by many names,
among them Holy Orders, the Priesthood, and so on.
Now, THOSE people don't just make ONE decision to enter
one program and now they're the property of the organization.
(No matter WHAT you were told.)
They receive training, and counseling.
They are questioned as to their commitment and reasoning.
They receive more training, and are REQUIRED to
meditate upon, and consider deeply, over and over,
the consequences of their decision.
It is FAR better for the organization to lose 90% of their
candidates than for them to place unstable, corrupt people
in all their offices.
Those that decide to go ahead swear their oaths,
and leave modern society, in a sense.
THEY'VE sworn oaths of poverty and chastity and stuff
I don't know about because I've never sworn their oaths.
Now,
THEY signed up for a lifetime serving their organization.
That's very different from, say, being a leader who runs
a twig for 5 years, then coordinates the next 4 classes,
then smooths things over for the new Limb leader,
then steps back and helps younger hands learn the basic
skills of leading, then returns to run a twig for a few
years again, then "semi-retires" and remains available
to advise other, newer leaders.
Now, did he serve a lifetime? Yes.
Was it in Christian service? Yes.
Was it where the ministry needed him? Yes.
Is WD going to say "You've made a good point?" No.
But to most people, the difference, once pointed out, should be obvious.
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WhiteDove
Oak
Because you at least are honest enough to admit to their intent I'd love to dig through tapes and printed matter all weekend, BUT damn it's a nice day out and really what would be the point except to waste my weekend . The truth and deep down I think you know it is, no matter how many pages of quotes I'd print it would be picked apart word by word comma by comma. Anything printed can be that’s why we have attorneys. The truth is The Way was about training leaders in the Corps program. they would not have spent the money printing materials that were not representative of the program. They wanted people to sell out to the ministry and they made no bones about telling people every chance they got. The Corps especially was the place to let this be known. That said all of us here have departed from the intent of that program service to the Way in a leadership capacity. That's ok! In fact it’s a good thing , and they departed from what they said also. So were even!
Many have gone on to serve God in other capacities, some have not, That does not however change the fact that most people that went through the program I believe if asked had no doubt that they were in it for a long haul and not two or three years and then you were done. It makes no sense to expend the time to train people that are not going to serve any time for them after graduation. there is no benefit to them to do that and as the track record shows they did things to benefit their organization. If you went in thinking only of the nametag and the glory of being a "heavy" then you went in for the wrong reason. Id agree that given the age of most it was an unrealistic even stupid thing to expect, but none the less I still see from the print that was what they clearly expected.
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WordWolf
So, then, we reached an impasse, and agree to disagree?
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WhiteDove
Nice story WW except you left out
not what someone thinks are the needs, they may be right or they may be wrong in their guess. I would say to be sure one would consult those in charge as they would logically know. Which is the way it was set up they decide the needs and assign people accordingly. Kind of like the way it is in the real world too your boss tells you the needs you do them not the other way around yes he may ask your input but the final word is his.
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WordWolf
That's true whether the distinction is made by the individual leader
or the leader he answers to.
If the trained leader is trusted that little, then I suppose he's not
going to be the one to make the call. If so, why waste 4 years of
training on him, only to micro-manage him?
Not necessarily.Local needs may change DAY TO DAY.
Someone trained as a problem-solver or a troubleshooter in ANY field
needs to adapt to accomplish various tasks as they need doing.
Area leaders concentrate on the big picture, and watch the area
in a more general way. They anticipate general needs-and those
may be wrong. It is up to those operating locally to evaluate the
situations they are in, determine the best course of action,
then carry it out. Many times that may involve keeping others informed,
but that is NOT a requirement.
Of course, you could easily say
"well, the area leader's supposed to listen for divine revelation and anticipate
accordingly", but the obvious answer to that is that
"the local leader's supposed to do the same, which returns the situation
to the general overseer and the local operator.
Wrong analogy.
A boss and a worker is different from
a boss and a supervisor.
Both are leaders, and they have specific tasks,
to which the other may be poorly suited.
If a boss has to KEEP directing the supervisor ALL THE TIME,
it reflects a lack of confidence in them to supervise,
and is called MICRO-MANAGEMENT.
Bosses do not LIKE having to supervise-it means someone
else isn't doing their job.
Or, you could say that the boss has to oversee an entire
department or company,
while the supervisor must oversee specifics at the moment,
and may need to break the rules or disregard them depending
on the situation.
====
Since I'm sure you don't see it this way,
I think we're better off declaring an impasse.
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Oakspear
I still think that their stated intent was very different than how it all turned out.
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WhiteDove
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skyrider
......"depends on the needs of the ministry."
Hell.......with THAT generic terminology.........LCM demanded SEX to "bless" the mog which would in turn support the "needs of the ministry."
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lindyhopper
Ok, Ritalin break.
Yes, EVEN me. I'll assume you didn't mean that the way it sounded.
I believe that when my parents signed us up for the family corps they knew it was going to be a LIFETIME of service to the ministry. I think they knew it meant we would be moving every 3 to 5 years. They still wanted to do it. I doubt at the time they thought that training and position could be yanked out from under them the way it was. If they were allowed they would still want to be corps today.
I do wonder what sort of contract there was if any. What was on the application? What was on the paper you signed etc.?
I do think that most people didn't expect that they were now required to jump when asked to jump and right on their daily schedule when they had a "movement" and submit it for review. FOS of course.
We were family corps though. That meant had a family and usually meant you were a little older than the regular corps folks. The Emploria and Gunnison people seemed to be younger people generaly...20 somethings a lot of the time. Most of the time people don't grow up to be the people they were when they were twenty. This includes career, interests, and beliefs. Was it an honest thing to ask of a young person to commit their life to the ministry, or was it something they knew young people would be psyched for without being able to honestly evaluate a decision that affected the rest of their life.
My wife went to one Way function. The thing that freaked her out the most was something my old roomy said in response to her comment on how nice it was with all the young kids around. He said, "It's good to get them while their young." It sounds like a f'd up thing to say and at the time I tried to rationalise it and say he was kind of joking, but he wasn't.
Looking at these MySpace sites, I think of this. Get em' while their young. They have no idea yet think they've got it down. I used to think I knew more "Word" than most priests. Boy was I wrong.
I also brought this up in like of the many people that come here that want to leave but are with spouses that either don't know about how they feel or don't want to leave. There is a fear that isn't unrealistic that the marriage would be at risk to bring up such a topic. I also think of the people in this situation that are corps.
I have more thoughts on the subject and on the things already said, but I have to go. So maybe later. For now though, I think it is important to know what was printed, said, and implied by your corps commitment and what people felt they were getting into. I don't think it is all the same and I don't think the wrong impression is solely the corps applicant's lack of reading comprehension.
Edited by lindyhopperLink to comment
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RumRunner
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markomalley
Whether or not they misrepresented the commitment for the Way Corps, I wouldn't know. I never sat through the Corpse training.
One thing I do know, though, is that all Christians are called to a lifetime of service consistent with their stations in life. Note the caveat, consistent with their stations in life. Also, please note I said service, not unpaid employment or slavery.
So the tag line, a lifetime of service, to me sounds entirely reasonable. But from what you tell me, the reality had only a marginal resemblence to to the tag line.
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pond
I agree with what Lindy said about
getting them when they are young.
it is creepy.
people in young adulthood are not knowledgable (although more so today with the internet ) about life choices and agendas.
we trust at that age because frankly most of us do not know any better, it is good thing, (all the new adventures are fun!) ! just leaving the safety of the home, but dangerous when people want to use that as a means to their end.
We often get married in our twenties but to a person our own age with our own likes and mindsets, hopefully and then the marriage grows up together.
how does one really grow into a whole person if having made such a commintment to twi.. they are told you can not ?
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rascal
Damned good point sky rider ...
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WhiteDove
Wrong word Sky! like Eve you changed a word, but nice try! It said where they serve not how they serve. That makes the big difference. You conveniently edited it to say what you wanted, Dishonest and not generic when you use the full statement in context. But then you knew that so rather than deal with the printed truth you misquote it . I bet that would work in court Yer honor I don't have an explanation for the defenses evidence so I'll just change it is that ok? duh........
Edited by WhiteDoveLink to comment
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skyrider
Hmmmmmm............
Since I graduated from the way corps program........
Twi changed................presidents.
Twi changed................and the founding president died of cancer (a devil spirit???)
Twi changed................the wow program to the WAY DISCIPLE (confrontation) program.
Twi changed................and cancelled the rock of ages.
Twi changed................and HUGE in-fighting among martindale and cgeer.
Twi changed................and THOUSANDS of way corps leadership exited.
Twi changed................to a homo-witch hunt.
Twi changed................their policy on home mortgages from The Way Credit Union.
Twi changed................to a present-truth knee jerk philosophy.
Twi changed................to an inner-circle, only spiritually mature people can handle adultery.
Twi changed................to a micro-managed, tell-us-when-you-have sex-with-your-spouse outfit.
Twi changed................AND THE CORPS DIRECTOR WAS OUSTED via twi lawyer advice.
Twi changed................and the WAP class was an dismal failure.
Twi changed................and rosalie knew of Craiggers sex episodes since 1995.
Twi changed................and the corps program is utterly pathetic.
Twi changed................to a "gentler, kinder ministry" in desperation of abs.
Twi changed................and this month, their attempt at a 3rd foundational class is starting up.
And whitedove.............YOU challenge me on emphasizing ONE POINT and taking it out of context. Hell, twi is TOTALLY OUT OF CONTEXT to the ministry of its former self.
Edited by skyriderLink to comment
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skyrider
Okay, whitedove.......
"Where they serve depends upon the needs of the ministry."
Where??.........some corps girls served WHERE the mog requested them to serve.
For wierwille...........he preferred the motorcoach.
For martindale........he liked threesome in a Dayton motel.
Better???????????????????
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skyrider
This is just too good to pass up.
"Darn that print it just gets in the way of what I want it to say."
Sounds like something the trustees would say............Darn that printed scripture it just gets in the way of what I want.
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WhiteDove
That does not make something else not true now does it Two issues!! What the brochure said / The state of the way now. This is not mix and match answers night . Yes I did challenge your misuse of what was said. Which was the topic at hand by the way not the state of the way. Or course as I said if you can't reconcile your opinion of how you want things to read with the truth then I suppose you will stoop to any low to try to justify your point. It sucks when you know your wrong and you have to deal with the truth.
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