Well dooj, I suppose that maybe it is because what we understood our commitment to be vs the reality of what would be required ..... are in direct contradiction to what some folks WISH to believe concerning the ministry that we one time supported whole heartedly.
If their perceptions are correct....those who`s experiences differed must be liars.
If their perceptions are mistaken.....one must admit to having been mislead.
I think that it is very hard to come to grips with being wrong about something that we passionatly supported at one time.
Yes W.D.... serve a lifetime... but I never took that to mean 'serve TWI'... when I thought they were 'of God' it made sense to serve with them, when I discovered otherwise, I left TWI...
I thought this thread was "what did you take it to mean?"... not argue with everyone about what they thought it meant... it meant different things to different people.
For cripes sake people, quit trying to tell "us" what you think it meant to us and quit arguing with what folks share that it meant. Arguing about verbiage in a freaking brochure... who in the heck cares? Why do you want to argue about it? To prove someone wrong? To prove yourself right? What's the freaking point. Very "Way" of you... but not Christlike. And Pond/mj... never mind... I don't know which of you will post next...
I repeat, we were never informed that it was an unbreakable, invioble contract/promise/oath/vow to God....failure of which to complete would be regarded as having LIED to God and would be met with dire consequences possibly as severe as death ....as demonstrated in the case of annanias and saphira.
Rascal, who do you think you are talking to? do you think we are morons?
Lol, I sure didn`t, but I guess that I am tempted to think so now oldies.... what ELSE would one call a fellow who would presume to know what had been taught/required/threatened to another by twi leaders in their interactions with someone when he wasn`t present ...nor ever in even remotely similar circumstance
I don`t make this stuff up....I would have been much happier if twi HAD been as you painted it oldies.
....failure of which to complete would be regarded as having LIED to God and would be met with dire consequences possibly as severe as death ....as demonstrated in the case of annanias and saphira.
Balderdash.
... and would be met with dire consequences possibly as severe as death ....as demonstrated in the case of annanias and saphira.
I understand that it is so outragious as to be unbelievable... but it happened AS stated.
It would be nice if you could make your points without resorting to personal attacks.... I can only relate my personal experiences with twi leaders in my circumstances....I would like to do be allowed to do so without you calling me a liar....
Pond, oldies, may not have gone in rez but they have hit the nail on the head concerning peoples and their motivations etc..
My wife and I were talked into going into the family corps by our country co-ord. and we (thought it was a good idea at the time) ! However, once in corps our 'eyes of understanding were definitely enlightened'.
Affairs going on, brushed under the carpet when exposed, people in rez who REALLY shouldn't have been there but because they were 'loaded with cash' obviously meant something etc..
Of course, when the news went round that we were quitting and going home, I had Mosq**a threaten to throw me out of third story window if I talked to anyone about why we were leaving. and then the phone call from Jean yv*s de Li**e offering to pay our airfare home IF we kept our mouths shut.
My point is to everyone else out there that the Corps was meant to be training for service ( as stated) that service was SUPPOSED to be determined by the desires and abilitites of each individual. I always understood that I could refuse an assignment ( though I never tried.)
Oldies, you're usually much more polite - I'm surprised.
That any Christian leader would suggest an abortion is despicable. I think it points to the need for funds in the form of tuition. Rascal, I'm sure you didn't have that abortion. So yes, you had a choice in that respect - but I can also see how that came with a lot of furrowed brows and whispering behind your back regarding your commitment. ( and why was that ever even an issue in the first place??? Lcm had no place in that decision.)
We are talking about the mid eighties after all....right?
Sometimes the choices don't realy feel like choices, do they?
hey, we're out now and still serving....so why not celebrate that instead of argue over some words in a brochure that was never worth the paper it was printed on. Our lives were important, the service we bring is still important, the abuses are in the past and we can't change them, we can only take back our lives from this point forward.
Seems like another "tempest in a teacup" if you ask me....
I am not making light of any horrible experiences, I hope is doesn't come across as such.
Snort ... I don`t suppose it is concidered a *tempest in a tea cup* if you were the one who had been told by the leadership that you had been taught MUST be obeyed.....that God required you to abort a child in honor of the vow that you made.
Sadly, I am ashamed to say that I was a good doulos....I aquiessed to what the lc said that my responsibility to God was...I remained in good standing with God and the ministry that was teaching hios word <_<
No it certainly didn`t FEEL like much of a *choice* when the alternative is being outside of God`s will and ability to protect you because of a broken promise....a lie
Maybe it is a little more personal and emotional when it is YOU who are lying on that table preparing to have your child destroyed ... while you desperatly run scripture retemories through your mind so that you can`t hear your inner self screaming .....so that you cannot think about what is about to happen and get tricked by satan..... and *chicken out* again....
Yeah we are out now...lets DO clebrate ..... what the hell is one more dead child sacrificed in God`s name?
Sorry dooj, I am not angry with you...I AM angry with what we were required to do in order to be obediant to God.
As long as we are, hopefully, talking about our own experiences, and, again hopefully, not pretending that they apply to everyone, here is mine...without using the words we or us, of course. I was told, before I committed or applied for the corps, that it was a lifetime commitment. No details of anything that would happen to me if I left; just that it was a lifetime commitment to God. The person who told me this was a fellow Indy person, who with his wife were also my PFAL class instructors, and headed the next year for the 7th corps. He also told me the corps wasn't for everyone; that there were ways of serving God in just as commited a way outside of the corps, in ones own field. Of course, at that time (Indy in the 70s) , there were quite a number of medical people in that area.
That any Christian leader would suggest an abortion is despicable.
It was either that, or instant dismissal.
I believe twi treated corps women who got themselves pregnant very well... they gave them a choice.
Oldies, you're usually much more polite - I'm surprised.
Sorry to disappoint you doojable.
But Rascal is portraying her situation so dire, so consequential, as to suggest that her life would have been in extreme peril, God's hand of protection and blessing removed from her, perhaps even dying an instant death ... if she decided not to continue her corps commitment; but instead, went home to have her baby.
And that was why she was "forced" to get an abortion...
And I've been reading this *** for so long, and just wanted to express my opinion about it, again.
As for me, I may as well weigh in here: I was fully aware of the lifetime comittment of Christian service aspect of the Way Corps training program. I went in to The Way Corps with my eyes wide open, and I don't think of it as "bait and switch" at all. I believed that The Way Ministry was synonymous with the Ministry Of Reconciliation to which I had comitted the rest of my life and I believed that being in The Way Corps was the best vehicle to help me become the most effective I could be as a minister, whether I continued on as a "lay" minister or if I was honorable enough to become ordained. I wanted it all, because I wanted to serve the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, through The Way Ministry and PFAL, opened my eyes so that I could see, and saved my sorry butt from oblivion.
But when it became evident that The Way was no longer "of God", as Tom said; "I left TWI".
Now Tom, I know that you didn't say "no longer of God". I said that. But I quote you as having said "I left TWI", for maybe you have decided that it never was of God, a point where we may diverge, ya know, which is fine... :)
Anyway, I knew about the lifetime comittment, and was all for it. No "switcheroo" for me...Peace
That was how it was presented to ME by my leadership oldies, Yeah it WAS a bunch of horse sh1t .. I was just foolish enough to to believe that their claim that they spoke for God :(
I'm sure those who signed up didn't expect to have to get rid of their pets, ask permission to have kids and report on how they spend their money, how often they have sex, etc.
We all know that TWI talks out of both sides of their mouths and that they print propaganda that's full of b.s. - heck, just look at their website or the green card - or the white card, for that matter! Nothing they wrote is worth the paper it's printed on and proves absolutely nothing.
People's perceptions are different and perception is reality for that individual. To say that they are liars or full of b.s. is wrong! Maybe they didn't see things the same way that some of us seem to think we would have seen it and maybe they didn't fight back like some of us seem to think that we would have, but it doesn't change the fact of what happened and how it happend to that individual.
Besides that, some of you who think that you are so much wiser, stronger, logical and overall better than the rest of us who were hoodwinked, you don't really know that you wouldn't have done the same thing if you were in our shoes.
I have a whole slew of letters craiggers wrote to the wc and they all, imo, show how utterly abused, taken advantage of, ridiculed and controlled the wc were in TWI. That IS why there are hardly any people signing up for the wc anymore. Now it's obvious that being wc means giving your life, lock, stock and barrell over to TWI. They were much more subtle about taking over your life in the earlier days.
Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
------
This verse was used in a grad night teaching long ago to discuss the obligation that those ordained by TWI had to "the ministry". This "teaching" was in response to the departure of John C**y from TWI. This verse was used as a form of caution for those who might seek to "back out of their commitment". At the time of the teaching, it seemed to only apply to those who were ordained though this verse turned up later in a teaching which described the Corps in general. Later, towards the early 80s it was used to describe anyone who would back out.
I'm not sure I understand the contentious attitude among some posters on this thread.
After being recruited into the corps program, but before I ever made a final decision to sign up, I talked to the corps coordinator at HQ. Yes, I heard the "lifetime of Christian Service" rhetoric. I discussed my desire to finish college after the way corps training was over, should I decide to go in.
I only had one year left to go to get my degree. ONE STUPID YEAR.
I was assured that would be no problem. I was told that many corps grads finished up their degrees or career pursuits after graduating. The impression that I got, was that it was a GOOD THING to have a skill, degree, profession.
During our time in-rez, my husband and I both made it know that our plans were to go back to college. Me, to finish my design degree, him to get his phd. We were assured by the then corps coordinators when we met with them about our graduation assignment, that our wishes would be honored.
It never happened, just because some almighty region/limb coordinator wanted my husband. (He and I had never met before.) And when we protested, we were guilted and arm twisted in doing what "the ministry" wanted. Of course, we could have said no, but turning down our corps assignment at that point would have been an all out act of defiance that would have gotten us kicked out of the corps I'm sure. And we had just graduated!
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about on this thread. I didn't think it was any secret nowadays that the way strong-armed people into doing what "they" wanted. Is this news to anyone?
I agree with whoever said that arguing with words on a promo brochure is absurd. The way inc. never had the right to keep people from finishing their education and other professional pursuits. Especially since we were "volunteers." We didn't expect salary or compensation from TWI and they sure weren't going to provide it. The whole thing is just beyond absurd.
Lifetime of christian service or no, we still have to be able to earn a living.
Snort ... I don`t suppose it is concidered a *tempest in a tea cup* if you were the one who had been told by the leadership that you had been taught MUST be obeyed.....that God required you to abort a child in honor of the vow that you made.
rascal - I'm sorry, you have misunderstood my comments. The "tempest in a teacup" I refer to is the other side of the argument. Why bring up a brochure that has no authority or control anymore.
I never meant to imply that your personal tragedy was a minimal thing.
Sorry for not being more clear.
I cannot even begin to imagine how that was presented to you in lcm's letter. You must have felt backed up against a wall. Of course, we all know that twi had already laid the groundwork to make abortion an "easy" thing. That's another thread I fear.
For the record - I was only pressured by lcm once - in a very nonconsequential matter. I didn't do what he told me. that must be why I wasn't considered a very good leader.....oh well.
I believe twi treated corps women who got themselves pregnant very well... they gave them a choice.
What does THAT mean???? TWI had no business in that decision at all. Why did twi even have to get involved? This was a Christian organization ( or so they said) not a Nazi youth camp.
Oh and btw a women can't get herself pregnant. It takes amale to do that - and all too often that male was married to another woman.
I just dug out the tape set that was I believe required listening during your apprentice year at least the later Corps after it was done. The Heart of the Way Corps Tape 1 The Way Corps a Call To Serve- John Lynn He seems to think that at the end of the years of training it will be expected that you will serve in the Way in some leadership capacity. Boy I guess I need to call him and let him know that skyrider thinks he did not understand the program he was a coordinator of.
Still trying to goad me, WD?
Sorry to disappoint you............"The Heart of the Way Corps Tape 1 The Way Corps a Call To Serve - John Lynn".............was released a few years LATER than my experience.
If you didn't experience it............you don't REALLY know.
How many companies or charities run basically by volunteers do you know of that ask for a LIFETIME of any sort of service?
For you old corps grads, what were you thinking that meant when you decided to go into the corps?
Lindy,
Quite the thread you started. :)
You asked us "old corps grads"......what we were thinking when we went corps. But for some reason, some want to TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING.
You asked us "old corps grads"......what we were thinking when we went corps. But for some reason, some want to TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING.
Unbelievable.............
It is totally freaking unbelievable. I had no idea what I was starting when posting this. To me "lifetime of Christian service" is somewhat vague or as Short fuse said a few pages back that it was "understated." I think most of us can't really argue the lifetime part (well I take that back we can argue about anything around here) the vague area is the service. What that meant exactly and how much of your life that was going to take up and how much control over your life they wanted was all "understated" and in my opinion, deleted to mislead people. As shortfuse said, if that was made clear even fewer people would sign up.
I did ask what you CORPS GRADS THOUGHT it meant. We all know that the ministry could have a totally different feel from one city to the next and one state to the next depending on who was in charge and how involved one was.
So with that in mind, I most respectfully ask Oldies, to shut the f**k up! How dare you treat Rascal this way. She was pressured by the people she saw as MOGs into GIVING UP HER CHILD! Not everyone wants that "choice". Inspite of perhaps your many experiences with getting an abortion NO ONE ENJOYS IT. It is dispicable and without any real respect or love to treat people that way. So if you don't believe what Rascal is saying...please stick to the topic and stop telling other people that what they experienced and felt was not the reality of the situation. You have no clue! I don't know how many times you need to hear this before it sinks in, but if you continue to do it on my thread I will see if I can't have you removed from it. Personal attacks are against the rules and you are basically calling her a liar. Which (to spell it out for you) is a personal attack.
This goes for the rest of you as well. (I hate being the youngest person in the room and having to do this.) Argue about it, state your point with your POV, but do not assume that you know what everyone's motivation for going in the corps was. Do not assume that you know what people were told and how it was stressed in spite of a vague brochure. Do not assume that what did or didn't happen to you happened the same way to everyone across the board.
Frackly I'm suprised that the people doing these things have been treated as well as they have on this thread.
WD, I think most of us get your point, but we all know that no one went into the crops without getting council to some degree and those personal meetings could have stressed things in different ways. As I said, my parents and I believe my brother and my younger one planning on going in understood the commitment in terms of time. What I don't think they understood was degree and demands of the service by the ministry. Had those things been made clear (I doubt they ever will be) it would have been a much more honest situation and far fewer people would hvae made the commitment.
I think shortfuse made another good point about it needs to be re-thought for it to survive. This alone could be the ultimate downfall of the ministy.
Regarding them re-working the program....I seriously doubt it. I mean, look at how rosie has them submitting their teaching in writing for approval and then having to read that teaching verbatim. She's got those long-timers on a short leash. There's no way she's going to give people more freedom - especially not those who are signing up to be her b1tch and getting in line to drink the kool-aid. :blink:
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rascal
Well dooj, I suppose that maybe it is because what we understood our commitment to be vs the reality of what would be required ..... are in direct contradiction to what some folks WISH to believe concerning the ministry that we one time supported whole heartedly.
If their perceptions are correct....those who`s experiences differed must be liars.
If their perceptions are mistaken.....one must admit to having been mislead.
I think that it is very hard to come to grips with being wrong about something that we passionatly supported at one time.
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Tom Strange
Yes W.D.... serve a lifetime... but I never took that to mean 'serve TWI'... when I thought they were 'of God' it made sense to serve with them, when I discovered otherwise, I left TWI...
I thought this thread was "what did you take it to mean?"... not argue with everyone about what they thought it meant... it meant different things to different people.
For cripes sake people, quit trying to tell "us" what you think it meant to us and quit arguing with what folks share that it meant. Arguing about verbiage in a freaking brochure... who in the heck cares? Why do you want to argue about it? To prove someone wrong? To prove yourself right? What's the freaking point. Very "Way" of you... but not Christlike. And Pond/mj... never mind... I don't know which of you will post next...
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oldiesman
Yes you are.
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rascal
Lol, I sure didn`t, but I guess that I am tempted to think so now oldies.... what ELSE would one call a fellow who would presume to know what had been taught/required/threatened to another by twi leaders in their interactions with someone when he wasn`t present ...nor ever in even remotely similar circumstance
I don`t make this stuff up....I would have been much happier if twi HAD been as you painted it oldies.
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oldiesman
Balderdash.
In your dreams.
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rascal
Oldies, I have nothing to gain by making this up.
I understand that it is so outragious as to be unbelievable... but it happened AS stated.
It would be nice if you could make your points without resorting to personal attacks.... I can only relate my personal experiences with twi leaders in my circumstances....I would like to do be allowed to do so without you calling me a liar....
Thank you
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allan w.
Pond, oldies, may not have gone in rez but they have hit the nail on the head concerning peoples and their motivations etc..
My wife and I were talked into going into the family corps by our country co-ord. and we (thought it was a good idea at the time) ! However, once in corps our 'eyes of understanding were definitely enlightened'.
Affairs going on, brushed under the carpet when exposed, people in rez who REALLY shouldn't have been there but because they were 'loaded with cash' obviously meant something etc..
Of course, when the news went round that we were quitting and going home, I had Mosq**a threaten to throw me out of third story window if I talked to anyone about why we were leaving. and then the phone call from Jean yv*s de Li**e offering to pay our airfare home IF we kept our mouths shut.
Yeah..eyes of understanding enlightened bigtime.
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Tom Strange
Oldies... I heard those words out of LCMs mouth many times... sad, but true...
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doojable
rascal, I hear what you are saying.
My point is to everyone else out there that the Corps was meant to be training for service ( as stated) that service was SUPPOSED to be determined by the desires and abilitites of each individual. I always understood that I could refuse an assignment ( though I never tried.)
Oldies, you're usually much more polite - I'm surprised.
That any Christian leader would suggest an abortion is despicable. I think it points to the need for funds in the form of tuition. Rascal, I'm sure you didn't have that abortion. So yes, you had a choice in that respect - but I can also see how that came with a lot of furrowed brows and whispering behind your back regarding your commitment. ( and why was that ever even an issue in the first place??? Lcm had no place in that decision.)
We are talking about the mid eighties after all....right?
Sometimes the choices don't realy feel like choices, do they?
hey, we're out now and still serving....so why not celebrate that instead of argue over some words in a brochure that was never worth the paper it was printed on. Our lives were important, the service we bring is still important, the abuses are in the past and we can't change them, we can only take back our lives from this point forward.
Seems like another "tempest in a teacup" if you ask me....
I am not making light of any horrible experiences, I hope is doesn't come across as such.
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rascal
Thanks for the corroboration Tom...this stuff is just too crazy to make up :(
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rascal
Snort ... I don`t suppose it is concidered a *tempest in a tea cup* if you were the one who had been told by the leadership that you had been taught MUST be obeyed.....that God required you to abort a child in honor of the vow that you made.
Sadly, I am ashamed to say that I was a good doulos....I aquiessed to what the lc said that my responsibility to God was...I remained in good standing with God and the ministry that was teaching hios word <_<
No it certainly didn`t FEEL like much of a *choice* when the alternative is being outside of God`s will and ability to protect you because of a broken promise....a lie
Maybe it is a little more personal and emotional when it is YOU who are lying on that table preparing to have your child destroyed ... while you desperatly run scripture retemories through your mind so that you can`t hear your inner self screaming .....so that you cannot think about what is about to happen and get tricked by satan..... and *chicken out* again....
Yeah we are out now...lets DO clebrate ..... what the hell is one more dead child sacrificed in God`s name?
Sorry dooj, I am not angry with you...I AM angry with what we were required to do in order to be obediant to God.
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Lifted Up
As long as we are, hopefully, talking about our own experiences, and, again hopefully, not pretending that they apply to everyone, here is mine...without using the words we or us, of course. I was told, before I committed or applied for the corps, that it was a lifetime commitment. No details of anything that would happen to me if I left; just that it was a lifetime commitment to God. The person who told me this was a fellow Indy person, who with his wife were also my PFAL class instructors, and headed the next year for the 7th corps. He also told me the corps wasn't for everyone; that there were ways of serving God in just as commited a way outside of the corps, in ones own field. Of course, at that time (Indy in the 70s) , there were quite a number of medical people in that area.
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oldiesman
It was either that, or instant dismissal.
I believe twi treated corps women who got themselves pregnant very well... they gave them a choice.
Sorry to disappoint you doojable.
But Rascal is portraying her situation so dire, so consequential, as to suggest that her life would have been in extreme peril, God's hand of protection and blessing removed from her, perhaps even dying an instant death ... if she decided not to continue her corps commitment; but instead, went home to have her baby.
And that was why she was "forced" to get an abortion...
And I've been reading this *** for so long, and just wanted to express my opinion about it, again.
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J0nny Ling0
As for me, I may as well weigh in here: I was fully aware of the lifetime comittment of Christian service aspect of the Way Corps training program. I went in to The Way Corps with my eyes wide open, and I don't think of it as "bait and switch" at all. I believed that The Way Ministry was synonymous with the Ministry Of Reconciliation to which I had comitted the rest of my life and I believed that being in The Way Corps was the best vehicle to help me become the most effective I could be as a minister, whether I continued on as a "lay" minister or if I was honorable enough to become ordained. I wanted it all, because I wanted to serve the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, through The Way Ministry and PFAL, opened my eyes so that I could see, and saved my sorry butt from oblivion.
But when it became evident that The Way was no longer "of God", as Tom said; "I left TWI".
Now Tom, I know that you didn't say "no longer of God". I said that. But I quote you as having said "I left TWI", for maybe you have decided that it never was of God, a point where we may diverge, ya know, which is fine... :)
Anyway, I knew about the lifetime comittment, and was all for it. No "switcheroo" for me...Peace
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rascal
That was how it was presented to ME by my leadership oldies, Yeah it WAS a bunch of horse sh1t .. I was just foolish enough to to believe that their claim that they spoke for God :(
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Belle
I'm sure those who signed up didn't expect to have to get rid of their pets, ask permission to have kids and report on how they spend their money, how often they have sex, etc.
We all know that TWI talks out of both sides of their mouths and that they print propaganda that's full of b.s. - heck, just look at their website or the green card - or the white card, for that matter! Nothing they wrote is worth the paper it's printed on and proves absolutely nothing.
People's perceptions are different and perception is reality for that individual. To say that they are liars or full of b.s. is wrong! Maybe they didn't see things the same way that some of us seem to think we would have seen it and maybe they didn't fight back like some of us seem to think that we would have, but it doesn't change the fact of what happened and how it happend to that individual.
Besides that, some of you who think that you are so much wiser, stronger, logical and overall better than the rest of us who were hoodwinked, you don't really know that you wouldn't have done the same thing if you were in our shoes.
I have a whole slew of letters craiggers wrote to the wc and they all, imo, show how utterly abused, taken advantage of, ridiculed and controlled the wc were in TWI. That IS why there are hardly any people signing up for the wc anymore. Now it's obvious that being wc means giving your life, lock, stock and barrell over to TWI. They were much more subtle about taking over your life in the earlier days.
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diazbro
------
Matthew 18:6 But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
------
This verse was used in a grad night teaching long ago to discuss the obligation that those ordained by TWI had to "the ministry". This "teaching" was in response to the departure of John C**y from TWI. This verse was used as a form of caution for those who might seek to "back out of their commitment". At the time of the teaching, it seemed to only apply to those who were ordained though this verse turned up later in a teaching which described the Corps in general. Later, towards the early 80s it was used to describe anyone who would back out.
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ex10
I'm not sure I understand the contentious attitude among some posters on this thread.
After being recruited into the corps program, but before I ever made a final decision to sign up, I talked to the corps coordinator at HQ. Yes, I heard the "lifetime of Christian Service" rhetoric. I discussed my desire to finish college after the way corps training was over, should I decide to go in.
I only had one year left to go to get my degree. ONE STUPID YEAR.
I was assured that would be no problem. I was told that many corps grads finished up their degrees or career pursuits after graduating. The impression that I got, was that it was a GOOD THING to have a skill, degree, profession.
During our time in-rez, my husband and I both made it know that our plans were to go back to college. Me, to finish my design degree, him to get his phd. We were assured by the then corps coordinators when we met with them about our graduation assignment, that our wishes would be honored.
It never happened, just because some almighty region/limb coordinator wanted my husband. (He and I had never met before.) And when we protested, we were guilted and arm twisted in doing what "the ministry" wanted. Of course, we could have said no, but turning down our corps assignment at that point would have been an all out act of defiance that would have gotten us kicked out of the corps I'm sure. And we had just graduated!
I really don't understand what all the fuss is about on this thread. I didn't think it was any secret nowadays that the way strong-armed people into doing what "they" wanted. Is this news to anyone?
I agree with whoever said that arguing with words on a promo brochure is absurd. The way inc. never had the right to keep people from finishing their education and other professional pursuits. Especially since we were "volunteers." We didn't expect salary or compensation from TWI and they sure weren't going to provide it. The whole thing is just beyond absurd.
Lifetime of christian service or no, we still have to be able to earn a living.
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doojable
rascal - I'm sorry, you have misunderstood my comments. The "tempest in a teacup" I refer to is the other side of the argument. Why bring up a brochure that has no authority or control anymore.
I never meant to imply that your personal tragedy was a minimal thing.
Sorry for not being more clear.
I cannot even begin to imagine how that was presented to you in lcm's letter. You must have felt backed up against a wall. Of course, we all know that twi had already laid the groundwork to make abortion an "easy" thing. That's another thread I fear.
For the record - I was only pressured by lcm once - in a very nonconsequential matter. I didn't do what he told me. that must be why I wasn't considered a very good leader.....oh well.
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doojable
What does THAT mean???? TWI had no business in that decision at all. Why did twi even have to get involved? This was a Christian organization ( or so they said) not a Nazi youth camp.
Oh and btw a women can't get herself pregnant. It takes amale to do that - and all too often that male was married to another woman.
Just in case you forgot....
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skyrider
Still trying to goad me, WD?
Sorry to disappoint you............"The Heart of the Way Corps Tape 1 The Way Corps a Call To Serve - John Lynn".............was released a few years LATER than my experience.
If you didn't experience it............you don't REALLY know.
You've gotta go..........to know. :)
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skyrider
Lindy,
Quite the thread you started. :)
You asked us "old corps grads"......what we were thinking when we went corps. But for some reason, some want to TELL US WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINKING.
Unbelievable.............
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lindyhopper
It is totally freaking unbelievable. I had no idea what I was starting when posting this. To me "lifetime of Christian service" is somewhat vague or as Short fuse said a few pages back that it was "understated." I think most of us can't really argue the lifetime part (well I take that back we can argue about anything around here) the vague area is the service. What that meant exactly and how much of your life that was going to take up and how much control over your life they wanted was all "understated" and in my opinion, deleted to mislead people. As shortfuse said, if that was made clear even fewer people would sign up.
I did ask what you CORPS GRADS THOUGHT it meant. We all know that the ministry could have a totally different feel from one city to the next and one state to the next depending on who was in charge and how involved one was.
So with that in mind, I most respectfully ask Oldies, to shut the f**k up! How dare you treat Rascal this way. She was pressured by the people she saw as MOGs into GIVING UP HER CHILD! Not everyone wants that "choice". Inspite of perhaps your many experiences with getting an abortion NO ONE ENJOYS IT. It is dispicable and without any real respect or love to treat people that way. So if you don't believe what Rascal is saying...please stick to the topic and stop telling other people that what they experienced and felt was not the reality of the situation. You have no clue! I don't know how many times you need to hear this before it sinks in, but if you continue to do it on my thread I will see if I can't have you removed from it. Personal attacks are against the rules and you are basically calling her a liar. Which (to spell it out for you) is a personal attack.
This goes for the rest of you as well. (I hate being the youngest person in the room and having to do this.) Argue about it, state your point with your POV, but do not assume that you know what everyone's motivation for going in the corps was. Do not assume that you know what people were told and how it was stressed in spite of a vague brochure. Do not assume that what did or didn't happen to you happened the same way to everyone across the board.
Frackly I'm suprised that the people doing these things have been treated as well as they have on this thread.
WD, I think most of us get your point, but we all know that no one went into the crops without getting council to some degree and those personal meetings could have stressed things in different ways. As I said, my parents and I believe my brother and my younger one planning on going in understood the commitment in terms of time. What I don't think they understood was degree and demands of the service by the ministry. Had those things been made clear (I doubt they ever will be) it would have been a much more honest situation and far fewer people would hvae made the commitment.
I think shortfuse made another good point about it needs to be re-thought for it to survive. This alone could be the ultimate downfall of the ministy.
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Belle
Excellent Post, Lindy!!
Regarding them re-working the program....I seriously doubt it. I mean, look at how rosie has them submitting their teaching in writing for approval and then having to read that teaching verbatim. She's got those long-timers on a short leash. There's no way she's going to give people more freedom - especially not those who are signing up to be her b1tch and getting in line to drink the kool-aid. :blink:
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