As an innie I am in total shock of that article. How dare that girl want to better herself and her community.
(Im laying my sarcasim as thick as I can)
Belle-you must be really off your rocker. Put down your copy of "conspiracy theory monthly" and get a clue and open up a real community news paper. A good community journalist is always looking for great stories about good kids doing good things. Open up any newpaper (no not star or your soap digest..silly) and you will see many young people doing many things for school and in a volunteer capacity.
Here is what you did. Because of all your hate for TWI, you woke up in the morning checked your messages on GScafe and then went and made some coffee. You then took a sip of that bitter dark sapy brew (you like it bitter reminds you of your feelings for all things TWI). You then refilled your cup and decided to get back on GScafe. You keep finding yourself becoming frustrated because there seems to be a trend of GS cafe. Nothing NEW! Deep down this tears at you. The fact that they are doing better, putting out a new class and reaching people really boils your buns. You then sit back and try to remember the good ol'days. law suits every week, plagerisim theories oh happy day. But alas no more. You just don't get the same rise out of the usuall posts. So you decide to do a new search to see if you can find any new dirt. Well you google "TWI" and you have a new hit! Oh its just a girl saying she wants to help the sick. But wait you get an idea. you can put your old conspiracy theory expertise to work on this. Lets spin it. lets say that TWI and the "marketing department" (no such thing I asked. And if it was an attempt in humor well... ) does this stuff all the time. ya that will work.
A good community journalist is always looking for great stories about good kids doing good things. Open up any newpaper (no not star or your soap digest..silly) and you will see many young people doing many things for school and in a volunteer capacity.
Belle knows that good kids makes a human interest story.
DUUUUHHHH.
What's the issue HERE is that the group that always exhorted people to
remain APART from helping in their community-
who, in their MILDER days, looked at MY community service experience
as "he's GOT to be exaggerating"-
suddenly now has its handful of teenagers suddenly pushing themselves
to the front and SEIZING a story.
Knowing how twi has been, and what it's taught its kids,
this means they switched from
"screw the community" to
"do something good in the community and make sure EVERYBODY
KNOWS ALL ABOUT IT."
Right now,
the most dangerous place to be in the US is NOT Manhattan,
it's any location between a twi teen who's just done community service
and a microphone.
Kids with a LOT more recommending them aren't getting stories,
because they aren't SEIZING THE CAMERA.
There are over 300 college campuses at this time, with tens of
thousands of students, in all 50 states, doing community service
projects all year. Rarely are they reported on, despite being
EASY TO FIND.
Insulting Belle won't change that, and your inability to see it
won't change it either. We had an entire discussion that included
EXAMPLES. I take it actually READING would have been too much
Actually, this is funny to me, rickyg, because of a website that I frequent about people off their rockers. Thanks for the giggle this morning.
Put down your copy of "conspiracy theory monthly" and get a clue and open up a real community news paper. A good community journalist is always looking for great stories about good kids doing good things. Open up any newpaper (no not star or your soap digest..silly) and you will see many young people doing many things for school and in a volunteer capacity.
I'm very well aware of that and even know some journalists who write about these good kids. What's funny to me, as WordWolf has so nicely clarified for you, is that these kinds of activities used to be verboten (see the other posts on this thread by any chance? ;) )
Furthermore, the other kids in NK and the surrounding area who are just as good, if not better, than the TWIt kids are getting NO PRESS WHATSOEVER....what am I supposed to think? Doesn't sound "fair and balanced" to me; sounds like someone's on a mission to get press for these TWIts. (pssst....HCW verified this if you read the links I posted.)
You keep finding yourself becoming frustrated because there seems to be a trend of GS cafe. Nothing NEW! Deep down this tears at you.
You're absolutely correct - there is nothing new! It doesn't tear at me, though. It would bore me to tears if I had to sit through the same drivel and listen to the same teachings over and over again - being read instead of having any animation or personal liberty with their own teachings.
I do get the rag every other month and that is boring and proof enough for me that there is definitely nothing new, in fact the nothing new has gotten even more bland than it was when I was still involved.
The fact that they are doing better, putting out a new class and reaching people really boils your buns.
Doing better how? I haven't seen any evidence of that and I have first hand accounts from people still involved and people recently gone from TWI that further enforces the fact.
rickg, here's a secret that you might not know....THEY HAD TO PUT OUT A NEW CLASS!!! The former teacher was a rapist, a liar and a bigot. :unsure: You did know that, didn't you? The OLD CLASS is also chock full of errors and b.s. that had to be eliminated from the teachings. Besides that, the already overworked free labor was tired of all the time it took to prepare and give teachings about things that they don't agree with, don't believe and can't possibly document as true.
Reaching people? Oh, you mean going out and talking to people...maybe bringing them once or twice to a fellowship and then having them run away once they find out what a farce TWI is? Once they find out that they're going to be told to sell their house and their car because they're "in debt" and can't reach the pinnacle of spirituality unless they forsake all logic regarding finances, retirement and security?
If'n it's soo dandy in TWI these days, why aren't there ever any numbers published about new students or how many people the Way DUH-ciples have faithfully attending fellowships and how many classes they're running and how the people are just flocking through the doors of TWI fellowships? Can ya gimme some verifiable numbers here? THEN you tell me how TWI is growing. ;)
Tell me how many people come to the AC spay-shuls and why they moved it to HQ. It's because they can't guarantee the attendance that they could in the past. Those discounts they were getting don't come with a very small percentage of the original attendance they USED to have. Besides that, it must be awfully embarrassing to have to talk to those kind folks at the Wyndham knowing that they know what a farce TWI is, what LCM did and what's all over the internet about TWI.
....You then sit back and try to remember the good ol'days. law suits every week, plagerisim theories oh happy day. But alas no more.
That you know about, Grasshopper. Stay tuned, you'll find out here before TWI tells you. That information alone that you mention would be enough for any logical, NORMAL brain functioning individual to run for the hills far, far away from anything associated with TWI. Your standards are too low if you're still involved and that stuff doesn't bother you.
You just don't get the same rise out of the usuall posts. So you decide to do a new search to see if you can find any new dirt. Well you google "TWI" and you have a new hit! Oh its just a girl saying she wants to help the sick.
Actually, I have Google alerts for anything TWI that shows up in the news. It's a pretty cool function, I recommend it.
... Lets spin it. lets say that TWI and the "marketing department" (no such thing I asked. And if it was an attempt in humor well... icon_redface.gif ) does this stuff all the time. ya that will work.
Actually, you ARE correct on this one part of your post. I believe it's called the Public Relations Dept. Is Rico Spaghetti still informing all the folks "from soup to nuts" like he lied about previously?
Show me the money - and I'll recant. For now, I stand firmly behind my posts.
Well then since you are the expert of the NK press let me lind you alittle bit of my knowledge since I did grow up there until my parents left. I grew up in the town, formed friends in the town and knew (and know) more comings and goings in the area than you could ever hope to.
I know for a fact that the " Evening Leader" regularly reports on many different kids in the area. More kids not involved in TWI are reported than those that are. FACT. The same with the SIdney Daily News. (these are the same papers that have written very negativley about TWI in the past) It also does the same type of journalism. Y
you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children. Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview. But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!
Well then since you are the expert of the NK press let me lind you alittle bit of my knowledge since I did grow up there until my parents left. I grew up in the town, formed friends in the town and knew (and know) more comings and goings in the area than you could ever hope to.
Ooo, an eeeexxxpppeerrrttt....
People-and newspapers-are largely the same all over.
I know for a fact that the " Evening Leader" regularly reports on many different kids in the area. More kids not involved in TWI are reported than those that are. FACT. The same with the SIdney Daily News. (these are the same papers that have written very negativley about TWI in the past) It also does the same type of journalism.
There's a lot more non-twi kids to REPORT on.
Furthermore, they're usually the ones doing something noteworthy.
A kid running from home to school to "fellowship" and permutations thereof
does NOT an exciting story make.
Furthermore, all these kids are suddenly transformed into
"USHERS".
Has anyone peeked into the Auditorium and checked if it's
loaded with teenagers in semi-formal guiding people to their seats?
According to what they told the reporters, that's what they're
ALL doing all of a sudden...
you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children.
Giving that poor reading comprehension ability a workout again, are we?
That's not what any of us said.
In fact, I said something notably different 2 posts before you.
Not going to let a little thing like what I said stop you from
making your claim about what you DECIDED I said, no?
Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview.
No-if that happened, then statistically, the students who have
been doing good ALL ALONG would have been interviewed-
those honour students who HAVE BEEN helping in their communities-
not just the past few months.
Since that did NOT happen, something bumped these twi kids to the
top of the stack.
Now, I could speculate that someone in twi has juice and pulled
some strings. However, I won't make such a claim-especially since
numbers are so low at twi.
I could speculate that money changed hands, and someone took a
straight bribe. However, I won't make such a claim-especially since
reporters get paid better than twi staffers, have more integrity than
twi staffers, and reporting about a bribe attempt would be MUCH more
interesting....
So, I go with the most obvious method of how the reporters found these
students: the students called up and TOLD them.
"Hi, I'm a local student who's doing well in school, and I'm helping out
all over the local community. And I'm photogenic."
The step BEFORE this, of course, is that the student must actually fill
those definitions to a degree.
So, first the kid has to make sure their grades are up to scratch.
Not the BEST, but good enough that the reporter can say
"they're doing well."
Second, the kid has to do something in the local community.
Not the MOST involved, but good enough that the reporter can say
"they're doing SOMETHING."
So, why's the kid doing all this?
The orders from the Powers-That-Be USED to be
"avoid the outside world and if they need help, recommend they
take the class. Otherwise, screw them."
Since the kids are now doing the OPPOSITE of this, that means
one of two things:
A) the kids are now doing the OPPOSITE of what the P-T-B say.
Not and remain in twi, that's for sure.
B) The orders from above have now REVERSED.
Unable to generate any interest in themselves, and desperate
for some POSITIVE press, they passed down an unfunded
mandate to their peons: "get your kid to do something in
the community, then harass reporters until they report on it."
What's the reporter's motivation?
That's easy-laziness.
A story just dropped itself in his lap.
It's a human-interest story.
It may not be the BEST human-interest story he can run,
but it's good enough to print, and it's warm and fuzzy.
So, he has an easy day's work.
Human, understandable, and-in and of itself-not wrong,
he IS doing his job.
But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!
I think both of you should stop drinking the punch, somebody has filled your minds to the brink of BS. The only thing we have here are two people who do not know what they are talking about. So you guys want to say the big bad Way or VPW or LCM were bad to me and they did this and this. The whole story is getting old VPW did not do anything to you neither did LCM or the TWI. The hogwash has started on this thread.
"you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children. Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview. But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!"
I write for a paper and have written for many. The chances that some reporter called the school looking for a human interest story are small. Reporters get calls all day for potential stories. They don't need to go find one. It's not like the movies. Most of the people who call newpapers to offer "scoops" are publicists. It's their job. Almost any human interest story, write ups about artists and musicians, anything other than hard news, came from a publicist calling a newspaper. As I said in my 1st post "great PR move".
So, in reality, the chances that TWI called a school to get some good press are greater than the chances that the reporter called the school looking for a fluff piece. Fact.
Not to be a downer...
But I do remember the high school students being told to be involved in community volunteering and school activities because it would look good on scholarship applications.
I was never told such a thing between 1975-1988. In fact (opens new can of worms) I was told not to go to college but rather to go WOW then go into the corps instead. I was going to be ordained some day. So, no need for community service. It didn't count for much in The Way.
So far what we've learned in this thread is that community service is encouraged by TWI not for the purpose of being a good person but rather so you can LOOK like you're a good person. Nice.
I agree that the story was more than likely a result of a TWI PR move... but there is a remote chance that it is also the result of proud parents making the call themselves... it's not out of the realm of possibility.
You guys know well how I feel about TWI... and if I've been reading them right the last couple of years, it's all been about improving their public image... so... that being said, I can see them wanting to change the way the community views their kids as well... and I can see them 'lightening up' a bit and allowing the kids to be involved in the things this young lady is...
I know (at least I'm pretty sure) that none of you folks think anything bad about the young lady, and I know that you're speaking of TWI but I think the larger picture here is that we should be happy for her and wish her well... and maybe I'm taking all of this wrong but the tone (for lack of a better word) on this thread just doesn't 'feel right' to me... but that's just me...
I don't think TWI has changed their 'core beliefs', and I don't think that they actually wanted to 'loosen the apron strings' either... but I also think that they've probably felt like they had to do something, anything to try and change the public perception of them... whether they like it or not...
So what I'm saying is all of this seems legit to me... it doesn't change how I feel about TWI because I know about TWI... but I'm happy for the young lady... sounds like she's got a fighting chance once she gets older...
I agree with Tom Strange on this one. I might be wrong, but in looking at the article, twi got a very small mention, while her other accomplishments dominated the piece.
The whole story is getting old VPW did not do anything to you neither did LCM or the TWI. The hogwash has started on this thread.
CK
However -- I do have to disagree with this statement. With all due respect, CK, you weren't there when we were told what to believe, how to believe it, talked at, preached to, with an expectation of *undying* committment, or being faced with possession of devil spirits, or even death as a result of our refusal to .
(Greasespot by midnight --- remember?? That was from LCM.)
Yer experience's might have been fine and *Rosy*, and while some of ours were too, we did see the *tares* amongst the *wheat*. Some of us have been *burning the chaff* for years now. Whatever you might say, cannot negate the past, that we personally have experienced.
Please wake up, and accept that fact. Our stories are not invalid, no one here is blowing smoke (well almost no-one!), and if you can understand that, and put it in perspective with what you are seeing today, you'll be a better person for it.
The only thing we have here are two people who do not know what they are talking about.
[Third "ad hominem" attack in 2 sentences!
See the above link.]
So you guys want to say the big bad Way or VPW or LCM were bad to me and they did this and this.
[*reads the preceeding posts on this thread*
Um....
That has NOTHING TO DO with this discussion OR this thread.
Did you read that ON THIS THREAD?
Please quote the post in question if so.
If not, you're interrupting ONE discussion to throw in
some insults and interject an unrelated opinion.
A "point of irrelevant interjection" is hardly
parliamentary procedure....]
The whole story is getting old
[it wasn't getting old ON THIS THREAD,
it only arrived when YOU posted it!
Ignoring the content of the thread CK is reading,
and throwing in insults and opinion
IS getting old, however.]
VPW did not do anything to you neither did LCM or the TWI.
[You have no idea what EITHER of them did to EITHER of us.
This odd claim that you DO hardly qualifies as "proof".
Further, which one of us mentioned what either of the did
IN THIS THREAD?
The hogwash has started on this thread.
CK
[i agree-and it started in CK's post.
The rest of us were on a thread discussing POLICY, PRACTICE
and standard operating procedure.
Actually, I take that back.
It started in rickyg's post, and CONTINUED in CK's post.]
With all due respect, CK, you weren't there when we were told what to believe, how to believe it, talked at, preached to, with an expectation of *undying* committment, or being faced with possession of devil spirits, or even death as a result of our refusal to .
(Greasespot by midnight --- remember?? That was from LCM.)
Yer experience's might have been fine and *Rosy*, and while some of ours were too, we did see the *tares* amongst the *wheat*. Some of us have been *burning the chaff* for years now. Whatever you might say, cannot negate the past, that we personally have experienced.
Please wake up, and accept that fact. Our stories are not invalid, no one here is blowing smoke (well almost no-one!), and if you can understand that, and put it in perspective with what you are seeing today, you'll be a better person for it.
On the change in attitude toward community service--
I can remember in the the late nineties being confronted and reproved for being involved in the school parent organization. Good not best type situation. It met once a month and did a couple family/school activities/fundraisers a year. But that was too much!
But-- college scholorship committees look at community service when studying candidate's applications nowdays. Also, high school National Honor Society members do some community service as part of their qualification for memebership.
On the change in attitude toward community service--
I can remember in the the late nineties being confronted and reproved for being involved in the school parent organization. Good not best type situation. It met once a month and did a couple family/school activities/fundraisers a year. But that was too much!
But-- college scholorship committees look at community service when studying candidate's applications nowdays. Also, high school National Honor Society members do some community service as part of their qualification for memebership.
And in the early 90s, I spoke to one of the "left in 89" ex-twi leaders,
as he brought up the subject of helping out in the local community.
He was telling me this like he was bringing up this subject I'd never
heard of-since HE'D never heard of it.
The incredible irony of the situation:
at the time he'd mentioned this,
I'd ALREADY logged HUNDREDS of hours of community service,
in 40-hour blocks,
not counting TRAINING and other RELATED subjects,
all over New York City and OUTSIDE NYC.
I just didn't do it IN TWI.
Of course, if leadership training OR community service
was not done with their approval and at their direction-
which mine wasn't, this was the first he'd heard of it-
then it was some sort of dirty secret I'd been keeping.
Oddly enough, at the time, one of our local denominations,
at the time-and I expect now as well-
had people my age also doing community service
AS A GROUP.
What was revolutionary to twi-actually HELPING OTHERS,
or-as JESUS would put it, being their neighbor-
was old hat with them.
(Luke 10:27-37)
To them, this "go and do thou likewise"
thing was more "we should do this"
than a joke illustrating the foolishness of other Christians.
(i.e. "Read a verse at random, and that's your guide for the day.")
I agree with other posters, more power to her. Being involved in the community as well as she is can be a great example. Does not matter if she is involved with TWI. If TWI is proud of her, they should be. Got no problem with her mentioning her TWI status.
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GeorgeStGeorge
No, that's not sad at all. Unfortunately, it sounds as if #1's ONLY friend was #2, etc.
THAT's sad.
George
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rickyg
As an innie I am in total shock of that article. How dare that girl want to better herself and her community.
(Im laying my sarcasim as thick as I can)
Belle-you must be really off your rocker. Put down your copy of "conspiracy theory monthly" and get a clue and open up a real community news paper. A good community journalist is always looking for great stories about good kids doing good things. Open up any newpaper (no not star or your soap digest..silly) and you will see many young people doing many things for school and in a volunteer capacity.
Here is what you did. Because of all your hate for TWI, you woke up in the morning checked your messages on GScafe and then went and made some coffee. You then took a sip of that bitter dark sapy brew (you like it bitter reminds you of your feelings for all things TWI). You then refilled your cup and decided to get back on GScafe. You keep finding yourself becoming frustrated because there seems to be a trend of GS cafe. Nothing NEW! Deep down this tears at you. The fact that they are doing better, putting out a new class and reaching people really boils your buns. You then sit back and try to remember the good ol'days. law suits every week, plagerisim theories oh happy day. But alas no more. You just don't get the same rise out of the usuall posts. So you decide to do a new search to see if you can find any new dirt. Well you google "TWI" and you have a new hit! Oh its just a girl saying she wants to help the sick. But wait you get an idea. you can put your old conspiracy theory expertise to work on this. Lets spin it. lets say that TWI and the "marketing department" (no such thing I asked. And if it was an attempt in humor well...
) does this stuff all the time. ya that will work.
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WordWolf
Belle knows that good kids makes a human interest story.
DUUUUHHHH.
What's the issue HERE is that the group that always exhorted people to
remain APART from helping in their community-
who, in their MILDER days, looked at MY community service experience
as "he's GOT to be exaggerating"-
suddenly now has its handful of teenagers suddenly pushing themselves
to the front and SEIZING a story.
Knowing how twi has been, and what it's taught its kids,
this means they switched from
"screw the community" to
"do something good in the community and make sure EVERYBODY
KNOWS ALL ABOUT IT."
Right now,
the most dangerous place to be in the US is NOT Manhattan,
it's any location between a twi teen who's just done community service
and a microphone.
Kids with a LOT more recommending them aren't getting stories,
because they aren't SEIZING THE CAMERA.
There are over 300 college campuses at this time, with tens of
thousands of students, in all 50 states, doing community service
projects all year. Rarely are they reported on, despite being
EASY TO FIND.
Insulting Belle won't change that, and your inability to see it
won't change it either. We had an entire discussion that included
EXAMPLES. I take it actually READING would have been too much
work when tossing an insult is SO much faster.
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Belle
I'm very well aware of that and even know some journalists who write about these good kids. What's funny to me, as WordWolf has so nicely clarified for you, is that these kinds of activities used to be verboten (see the other posts on this thread by any chance? ;) )
Furthermore, the other kids in NK and the surrounding area who are just as good, if not better, than the TWIt kids are getting NO PRESS WHATSOEVER....what am I supposed to think? Doesn't sound "fair and balanced" to me; sounds like someone's on a mission to get press for these TWIts. (pssst....HCW verified this if you read the links I posted.)
You're absolutely correct - there is nothing new! It doesn't tear at me, though. It would bore me to tears if I had to sit through the same drivel and listen to the same teachings over and over again - being read instead of having any animation or personal liberty with their own teachings.I do get the rag every other month and that is boring and proof enough for me that there is definitely nothing new, in fact the nothing new has gotten even more bland than it was when I was still involved.
Doing better how? I haven't seen any evidence of that and I have first hand accounts from people still involved and people recently gone from TWI that further enforces the fact.
rickg, here's a secret that you might not know....THEY HAD TO PUT OUT A NEW CLASS!!! The former teacher was a rapist, a liar and a bigot. :unsure: You did know that, didn't you? The OLD CLASS is also chock full of errors and b.s. that had to be eliminated from the teachings. Besides that, the already overworked free labor was tired of all the time it took to prepare and give teachings about things that they don't agree with, don't believe and can't possibly document as true.
Reaching people? Oh, you mean going out and talking to people...maybe bringing them once or twice to a fellowship and then having them run away once they find out what a farce TWI is? Once they find out that they're going to be told to sell their house and their car because they're "in debt" and can't reach the pinnacle of spirituality unless they forsake all logic regarding finances, retirement and security?
If'n it's soo dandy in TWI these days, why aren't there ever any numbers published about new students or how many people the Way DUH-ciples have faithfully attending fellowships and how many classes they're running and how the people are just flocking through the doors of TWI fellowships? Can ya gimme some verifiable numbers here? THEN you tell me how TWI is growing. ;)
Tell me how many people come to the AC spay-shuls and why they moved it to HQ. It's because they can't guarantee the attendance that they could in the past. Those discounts they were getting don't come with a very small percentage of the original attendance they USED to have. Besides that, it must be awfully embarrassing to have to talk to those kind folks at the Wyndham knowing that they know what a farce TWI is, what LCM did and what's all over the internet about TWI.
That you know about, Grasshopper.Actually, I have Google alerts for anything TWI that shows up in the news. It's a pretty cool function, I recommend it.
Actually, you ARE correct on this one part of your post. I believe it's called the Public Relations Dept. Is Rico Spaghetti still informing all the folks "from soup to nuts" like he lied about previously?
Show me the money - and I'll recant. For now, I stand firmly behind my posts.
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rickyg
Well then since you are the expert of the NK press let me lind you alittle bit of my knowledge since I did grow up there until my parents left. I grew up in the town, formed friends in the town and knew (and know) more comings and goings in the area than you could ever hope to.
I know for a fact that the " Evening Leader" regularly reports on many different kids in the area. More kids not involved in TWI are reported than those that are. FACT. The same with the SIdney Daily News. (these are the same papers that have written very negativley about TWI in the past) It also does the same type of journalism. Y
you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children. Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview. But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!
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WordWolf
Ooo, an eeeexxxpppeerrrttt....
People-and newspapers-are largely the same all over.
There's a lot more non-twi kids to REPORT on.Furthermore, they're usually the ones doing something noteworthy.
A kid running from home to school to "fellowship" and permutations thereof
does NOT an exciting story make.
Furthermore, all these kids are suddenly transformed into
"USHERS".
Has anyone peeked into the Auditorium and checked if it's
loaded with teenagers in semi-formal guiding people to their seats?
According to what they told the reporters, that's what they're
ALL doing all of a sudden...
Giving that poor reading comprehension ability a workout again, are we?
That's not what any of us said.
In fact, I said something notably different 2 posts before you.
Not going to let a little thing like what I said stop you from
making your claim about what you DECIDED I said, no?
No-if that happened, then statistically, the students who havebeen doing good ALL ALONG would have been interviewed-
those honour students who HAVE BEEN helping in their communities-
not just the past few months.
Since that did NOT happen, something bumped these twi kids to the
top of the stack.
Now, I could speculate that someone in twi has juice and pulled
some strings. However, I won't make such a claim-especially since
numbers are so low at twi.
I could speculate that money changed hands, and someone took a
straight bribe. However, I won't make such a claim-especially since
reporters get paid better than twi staffers, have more integrity than
twi staffers, and reporting about a bribe attempt would be MUCH more
interesting....
So, I go with the most obvious method of how the reporters found these
students: the students called up and TOLD them.
"Hi, I'm a local student who's doing well in school, and I'm helping out
all over the local community. And I'm photogenic."
The step BEFORE this, of course, is that the student must actually fill
those definitions to a degree.
So, first the kid has to make sure their grades are up to scratch.
Not the BEST, but good enough that the reporter can say
"they're doing well."
Second, the kid has to do something in the local community.
Not the MOST involved, but good enough that the reporter can say
"they're doing SOMETHING."
So, why's the kid doing all this?
The orders from the Powers-That-Be USED to be
"avoid the outside world and if they need help, recommend they
take the class. Otherwise, screw them."
Since the kids are now doing the OPPOSITE of this, that means
one of two things:
A) the kids are now doing the OPPOSITE of what the P-T-B say.
Not and remain in twi, that's for sure.
B) The orders from above have now REVERSED.
Unable to generate any interest in themselves, and desperate
for some POSITIVE press, they passed down an unfunded
mandate to their peons: "get your kid to do something in
the community, then harass reporters until they report on it."
What's the reporter's motivation?
That's easy-laziness.
A story just dropped itself in his lap.
It's a human-interest story.
It may not be the BEST human-interest story he can run,
but it's good enough to print, and it's warm and fuzzy.
So, he has an easy day's work.
Human, understandable, and-in and of itself-not wrong,
he IS doing his job.
I spun a story more credible than your
"all these reporters suddenly DECIDED to report
on twi high-schoolers that are not as newsworthy
as the kids they skipped over to report on them"
tale. Yours was FAR more "fantastic."
But, of course, the content of my posts has been
eluding you of late.
Feel free to review this a few times, slower.
It won't hurt my feelings-in fact, seeing you
put forth the proper effort is something I'd
applaud...
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Belle
hee hee hee - WordWolf - you definitely have a way with words. And I love reading 'em. :)
rickgy, how's about answering the parts about how TWI is bigger, better and not boring people to sleep? Got some facts on THOSE things?
doubt it.....
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likeaneagle
:blink:
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ckmkeon
Belle and Word
I think both of you should stop drinking the punch, somebody has filled your minds to the brink of BS. The only thing we have here are two people who do not know what they are talking about. So you guys want to say the big bad Way or VPW or LCM were bad to me and they did this and this. The whole story is getting old VPW did not do anything to you neither did LCM or the TWI. The hogwash has started on this thread.
CK
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Georgio Jessio
"you are implying that there is department at HQ that purposly calles up there source at the paper and forces them a human interest story about the quality of their children. Bull! Rather a jounalist (who are alwyas looking for such stories) probably called up the school and asked if there is any outstanding children showing exceptional potenitial in the humanities and in their studies. They gave them a name and asked the student for an interview. But I am sure in your fantastic mind you came up with some cartoon world where there are people at TWI in a room thinking how they can put a plastic spin on a Orwelllian orgainization. There is no big brother in TWI spinning Rupert Murdoch style news. There is no Public Relations Dept. There may be a public realtions person who carries out these duties when there is a need but there is no group sitting around making these types of plans. Fact!"
I write for a paper and have written for many. The chances that some reporter called the school looking for a human interest story are small. Reporters get calls all day for potential stories. They don't need to go find one. It's not like the movies. Most of the people who call newpapers to offer "scoops" are publicists. It's their job. Almost any human interest story, write ups about artists and musicians, anything other than hard news, came from a publicist calling a newspaper. As I said in my 1st post "great PR move".
So, in reality, the chances that TWI called a school to get some good press are greater than the chances that the reporter called the school looking for a fluff piece. Fact.
I was never told such a thing between 1975-1988. In fact (opens new can of worms) I was told not to go to college but rather to go WOW then go into the corps instead. I was going to be ordained some day. So, no need for community service. It didn't count for much in The Way.
So far what we've learned in this thread is that community service is encouraged by TWI not for the purpose of being a good person but rather so you can LOOK like you're a good person. Nice.
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Belle
And we still have no PROOF otherwise, Georgio. :)
I'm inclined to believe you over someone who makes accusations but can't back them up. ;)
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Tom Strange
I agree that the story was more than likely a result of a TWI PR move... but there is a remote chance that it is also the result of proud parents making the call themselves... it's not out of the realm of possibility.
You guys know well how I feel about TWI... and if I've been reading them right the last couple of years, it's all been about improving their public image... so... that being said, I can see them wanting to change the way the community views their kids as well... and I can see them 'lightening up' a bit and allowing the kids to be involved in the things this young lady is...
I know (at least I'm pretty sure) that none of you folks think anything bad about the young lady, and I know that you're speaking of TWI but I think the larger picture here is that we should be happy for her and wish her well... and maybe I'm taking all of this wrong but the tone (for lack of a better word) on this thread just doesn't 'feel right' to me... but that's just me...
I don't think TWI has changed their 'core beliefs', and I don't think that they actually wanted to 'loosen the apron strings' either... but I also think that they've probably felt like they had to do something, anything to try and change the public perception of them... whether they like it or not...
So what I'm saying is all of this seems legit to me... it doesn't change how I feel about TWI because I know about TWI... but I'm happy for the young lady... sounds like she's got a fighting chance once she gets older...
At least that's my take on it...
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dmiller
I agree with Tom Strange on this one. I might be wrong, but in looking at the article, twi got a very small mention, while her other accomplishments dominated the piece.
Just my imo. :)
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dmiller
However -- I do have to disagree with this statement. With all due respect, CK, you weren't there when we were told what to believe, how to believe it, talked at, preached to, with an expectation of *undying* committment, or being faced with possession of devil spirits, or even death as a result of our refusal to .
(Greasespot by midnight --- remember?? That was from LCM.)
Yer experience's might have been fine and *Rosy*, and while some of ours were too, we did see the *tares* amongst the *wheat*. Some of us have been *burning the chaff* for years now. Whatever you might say, cannot negate the past, that we personally have experienced.
Please wake up, and accept that fact. Our stories are not invalid, no one here is blowing smoke (well almost no-one!), and if you can understand that, and put it in perspective with what you are seeing today, you'll be a better person for it.
Thank you. :)
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WordWolf
Ok, let's see...
[WordWolf in boldface and brackets.]
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Bramble
On the change in attitude toward community service--
I can remember in the the late nineties being confronted and reproved for being involved in the school parent organization. Good not best type situation. It met once a month and did a couple family/school activities/fundraisers a year. But that was too much!
But-- college scholorship committees look at community service when studying candidate's applications nowdays. Also, high school National Honor Society members do some community service as part of their qualification for memebership.
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WordWolf
And in the early 90s, I spoke to one of the "left in 89" ex-twi leaders,
as he brought up the subject of helping out in the local community.
He was telling me this like he was bringing up this subject I'd never
heard of-since HE'D never heard of it.
The incredible irony of the situation:
at the time he'd mentioned this,
I'd ALREADY logged HUNDREDS of hours of community service,
in 40-hour blocks,
not counting TRAINING and other RELATED subjects,
all over New York City and OUTSIDE NYC.
I just didn't do it IN TWI.
Of course, if leadership training OR community service
was not done with their approval and at their direction-
which mine wasn't, this was the first he'd heard of it-
then it was some sort of dirty secret I'd been keeping.
Oddly enough, at the time, one of our local denominations,
at the time-and I expect now as well-
had people my age also doing community service
AS A GROUP.
What was revolutionary to twi-actually HELPING OTHERS,
or-as JESUS would put it, being their neighbor-
was old hat with them.
(Luke 10:27-37)
To them, this "go and do thou likewise"
thing was more "we should do this"
than a joke illustrating the foolishness of other Christians.
(i.e. "Read a verse at random, and that's your guide for the day.")
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Eagle
I agree with other posters, more power to her. Being involved in the community as well as she is can be a great example. Does not matter if she is involved with TWI. If TWI is proud of her, they should be. Got no problem with her mentioning her TWI status.
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