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About the Founder In the first paragraph, they fail to mention the two names he plagiarized the most - J.E. Stiles and Bullinger. I don't recognize most of the other men they do list. Did he publicly credit all of these men in his work? Second paragraph is about his academic credentials. Two links concerning Pike's Peak Bible Seminary (aka Burton College) are Pikes Peak Bible Seminary (which mentions vpw) and GSC Thread Pike's Peak Seminary. Third paragraph lists the colleges in Emporia and in Indiana - neither of which were ever accredited and are both now closed. Does anyone know if the corps program is still run out of Camp Gunnison as well as the headquarters in Ohio? This link talks about the accreditation issues around these two places. Camp Gunnison's Accreditation The University of Life outreach courses, an international Biblical studies correspondence school, is mentioned in the final paragraph but I can't see where that is still available. The article closes with the claim that vp held forth the greatness and the accuracy of God’s Word. So the quote "The Word, the Word and nothing but the Word" also meant the Word of God according to vpw. Yet, how many of the classes offered by twi today are the original ones taught by him?

Oldies can answer, of course, but I read that as TWI saying the devil wanting you to prosper is the only way to prosper without tithing - any prosperity without tithing is counterfeit, devilsh. Gaslighting all the way down...

Perhaps I didn't express myself entirely well. TWI openly doesn't claim to be "the only body of Christ," but it acts as if it were, applying certain organizational principles that God established in the Epistles for "The Body of Christ." (The "Household of God" thing, Romans 13 ,etc) The point is that in the first century, Jesus Christ walked among them; they had the twelve apostles as "the direct source." Today, many claim to have the "Rightly divided word" What should the relationship between brothers in Christ from different churches/groups be like? How should Christian groups relate to each other if they have so many doctrinal differences? Could there be a meeting of believers between TWI, CFFM, TLTF (CES), and a Baptist Church (or any other Church)? (I know it sounds utopian, but I use that question to explain what I meant in my first post.)

“Dr.”

Well, I did reference his best days and in PFAL, he couldn't do enough to emphasize the Word and not Time, Look or Life. This would be a great topic to explore. If he got off the Word and made it exclusively about his teaching of the Word, when did that turn take place? As I mentioned, another church doing the same thing this morning. Probably a pattern problem

How sure are you that he did NOT teach that HIS teachings were the Word of God? Whether he ever used those words or not is irrelevant. His actions, his exercise of excommunication ALL consistently DID mean that Victor's words were the Word of God.

I don't get this oldiesman, the devil wanted you to....what?

I think that would be a GREAT question to put to anyone in leadership, there. If they don't subscribe to this maxim, I would want to know why. I'm not going to stick around anyplace a long time judging them, if I don't like it I'll just keep moving. Was listening to Morningstar Fellowship this morning. The speaker made reference to Rick Joyner's claim that those who stay behind in support receive the same reward as those who are sent out. Now, why would he do that!? That's just lazy. Why reference the founder of the ministry instead of the Bible itself!? It's 1 Sam 30:24 It seems the Way still has this problem. They want to play Weekend at Bernie's with Dr Wierwille. I'm pretty sure in his best days Dr Wierwille would not have wanted that. The Word, The Word, The Word! He didn't teach VPW, VPW, VPW!

Do you think this applies to the Way International?

Within twi, there was very little, if any, "willingness to agree to disagree." With William Barlow, he shared that it was some fellow believers who complained about him (i.e., ratted him out) to leadership because they determined he was criticizing and mocking vpw (which he later explained to the leader how that was not what was actually happening). With the second quote of WordWolf (highlighting is mine), he laid out how fear based the control in twi was. Questioning twi doctrine was obviously included in these acts of disobedience and qualified you as not being faithful enough. So beware anyone reading this thread who is currently in twi or is considering becoming involved - listen to the tape. On the tape, one leader "seemed willing" to go through William's questions with him but before that could even begin to happen, Rivenbark was told about it, shut it down and kicked William out of the corps solely for this one reason. It seems most likely that twi knows they are not able to defend vpw's teachings when provided with scriptures. They nip it in the bud, accuse you of thinking you know more than weirwille (which happened to me as well and is considered blasphemy in their eyes), and remain faithful to the man who founded the ministry which now belongs to them.

For the purpose of a serious conversation: "In Essentials Unity, In Nonessentials Liberty, and In All Things Love." This is a widely referenced maxim. Christians have plenty of doctrinal conversations. When it reaches a limit, Christians just split and have two separate groups with the same essential message of Jesus the Christ. Some groups are better than others with regard to liberty. To refer to various sects as separate religions is intellectually dishonest, whatever passion you may feel.

WordWolf and Oldiesman - what I remember too.

Rev Joseph Yoo's take on unity, uniformity, and the glory of God. Facebook

I'll give it Waysider. Most people think of it as "Don't Worry 'Bout Me," but the actual title is "Opus 17." I'd be surprised if WW and Human haven't heard it. Valli (91) is still performing and can still hit the high notes. I saw him live last week. His current "Four Seasons" and the backup band were all much younger, of course. It was a great show. I had forgotten how many great songs they did. George

Interesting question. My first reaction was 'no' - but then I thought about how the Roman Catholic Church allowed the mass to be watered down around 1958 with Vatican 2. IMO the only real way to see this is to attend a traditional latin mass, then go to the new Novus Ordo mass... you will see what I mean. Imagine having a concept for hundreds of years then change it.. it's a topic that's quite debated in RC circles...

I'm pretty sure it's a Frankie Valli tune, but the title evades me.

Agree! And lest we forgot... if one DID prosper while not tithing, it only meant that the Devil wanted you to... LOL

Adrien Brody Paul Gleeson Jarod Leto Elias Koteas Ben Chaplin Tim Blake Nelson Thomas Jane George Clooney Woody Harrelson John Cusack John C Reilly John Savage Jim Caviezel Sean Penn Nick Nolte John Travolta Don Harvey

That's them.

This is a show that ran in syndication in the U.S. for a long time. In the U.K., it did the same, AFAIK. In the UK, it was a 1-hour show. In the US, they snipped each show in half to make 1/2 hour shows, which is how they always aired, AFAIK. It is next to impossible to find this show in syndication now. I strongly suspect that far too many people were offended by the show- or are predicted to be offended by the show, for it to run now. That's a little odd, because, on the whole, it wasn't a show that specifically went for "shocking" or "edgy." This show was a comedy- although it did include musical numbers. It occasionally spoofed something- like "Gone with the Wind," "Murder on the Orient Express," and "The 6 Million Dollar Man." In particular, I liked when they looked at alternate takes on "Little Bo Peep." One version was a TV detective story, with Bo Peep arriving with a report of the missing sheep, another was a Swedish movie where we only saw the parts that could be aired on TV, and they included a Shakepearean version as well. Although only the host's name was known by everyone, a few of the regular performers were known by name- because they often used their own names when performing skits.

I'll try the former. Bosnia, Herzegovina, Croatia, Serbia, Kosovo, Slovenia, Macedonia.

I'm stumped. I doubt I've ever heard it.

Old time posters will find this funny, but I agree with Oldiesman. (At least I agree with this last post!) The meaning of "household" was never exactly defined, but in practice, seemed to equate with being a Christian at all- because any act of disobedience to twi would threaten to put you out of "the household". Further, people like lcm were openly distainful of people leaving twi, and said they put themselves outside of God's protection and so on. Any time something bad happened to someone who left twi, it was ALWAYS "because they left the household." (Any time something bad happened to someone in twi, either they were blamed for not being faithful ENOUGH to twi, or the devil was going after them BECAUSE they were in twi.) And lcm was quite vocal about how God's blessings won't reach someone who isn't in lockstep with twi. There was a lengthy list of things which would result in a situation where "God won't even SPIT in your direction", most notably, tithing. lcm talked about God spitting in our direction a lot.

I can't even name a single GROUP which will allow any questioning of their dogmas. I have met Christians willing to agree to disagree, and to interact despite differences. They've been from different denominations, for that matter. (Not twi, mind you...)

People act is if TWI is the only organization that will not change their doctrine when confronted with scripture indicating possible error. Ask the new U.S. Pope Leo XIV to justify purgatory from the bible or praying to dead people to help their loved ones on earth? Or declaring using birth control is a sin? There are over 2,000 Christian religions today and ask anyone of them to show why your religious beliefs are wrong. They will come up some scripture that indicates their religion is right. About any belief in the world today can be justified using the bible. Can you name a religion that will allow any questioning of their dogmas?