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A few of us haven't quite made "senior" yet. To name two, myself and Raf. (We went to the same school.) There's younger posters than us, but not many. Then again, right now there aren't many posters. (Not compared to say, 2001 AD)

"The reality, though, is that all churches and "spiritual" institutions have expectations, rules and regulations." This may come as a shock to you, but all INSTITUTIONS have expectations, rules and regulations. Communist China and Russia are loaded with them. Removing religion from a society doesn't change that, it just changes WHICH institutions and WHICH expectations, rules and regulations are in effect.

For the sake of this forum, I will examine from the position that all beliefs, including all religious beliefs, have stemmed entirely, 100% from people, with no exceptions. If so, that would mean all the religious beliefs- which people have based things on- would have that origin, as would every other belief upon which things were based. So, to posit a world where some of those beliefs were never developed, the question is, what would such a world be like? We're not imagining a world of magic and dragons here, we're imagining something deterministic and "realistic" (not fantastical.) I would expect it to look almost identical to our world. As has been pointed out, technology may change over time, but man has not changed. Improving technology has made some changes in society possible, but man is still man. We have the printing press, which helped to try to usher in universal literacy (a radical concept for history, and a recent one.) We have the internet, where someone can use that literacy to read things all over the world. We have the potential to have the best-informed Earth population EVER. Do we have it NOW? No, we do not. People go into an echo chamber and don't get impartial, fair and neutral information on things, just a lot of bias confirmation. (Can't blame ALL of that on Facebook, even if they made it easier.) What happened? Technology may have changed, but man has not changed. Hippies tried to eliminate capitalism, and make things free for everyone. It failed miserably. What happened? Man has not changed. MOST of the people went along with it. But it only takes a few freeloaders to ruin things. A minority of people showed up, and sponged off of the hippies, and tried to get everything they could (including "free love.") So, I could see the brands changing- from religious to any other brand. But I'd expect the same problems with a few cosmetic differences. Man has not changed. So, maybe somebody makes their identity in a philosophical group, or a political group, or even their bowling league. But there will be sectarianism, and sabers rattled. People form societies, and take on labels, and take on "who is an outsider", which strengthens group cohesion. That's going to stay the same as long as we HAVE people.

I guess we just don't have any bridge players in our little ensemble. I thought that that would be a dead giveaway. WW's up. George

Trading Places This might be a little vague: "Ugh! As IF!" George

No. State Fair Kitten with a Whip The Pleasure Seekers The Cincinnati Kid The Swinger Murderers' Row C.C. and Company 52 Pick-Up Magic Bye Bye Birdie Newsies The Villain George (It will get really obvious with the next set, if required.)

Hawaii 5-0 "Beam me up." George

Homeward Bound "We're no strangers to love. You know the rules and so do I." George

"How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible?" You take a doctrine of twi's, and compare it to what The Bible says. You take what they claim The Bible says and means, and compare that to what it says, and the most sensible take on the meaning. It's the same principle you'd use to compare any doctrine or practice with any document. I'm familiar with what the U.S. Constitution says. I'm willing, at times, to discuss what the most logical interpretations are for what that says, and compare that to what any group has said. (I don't want to do that here and now, partly because it would be wildly off-topic for this thread.)

Agree in part. Assuming that death is the natural end of one's existence, eternal nothingness cannot be unpleasant. But is it very bad? Well, I would say that to the believer it's very tragic and sad, if there's a whole world of souls living eternally with God while simultaneously there's a whole world that is not. But perhaps we may agree on one thing: that universal salvation (the belief that everyone will eventually be saved no matter what they believe and/or do) is not the truth?

Today: May 10, 2025 melt values are as follows: Gold: $3,323.30 per oz. Silver: $32.69 per oz. Some say this 100-1 ratio will not last and that silver is the best buy right now. Some are advocating trading your gold for silver right now. For example, one ounce of gold will get you 100 ounces of silver. But there are others who say that gold still is in upswing mode so wait a bit. I think that's more likely.

Agree. I think we'd have to try each one to understand each... and understanding only one may take up to a year or even more. I'm still trying to understand the traditional latin mass. One thing I do believe: each religion has some truth and biblical principle, and even atheism has some too, as in loving and kindness to your fellow man.

"I Must Let the Show Go On"?? Leo Sayer. Three Dog Night Yeah, that's it. I'm sure. I'm going. "Ah, rock on George, one time for me". I feel fine. "Ah, rock on George, for Ringo one time". Whoo!"

I don't think this was as easy as you thought George. I don't think I would have gotten it unless you posted a picture with Tiger Woods holding all four major championship trophies. Good trivia.

Oh right, George of the Jungle, no, "Toy Story" "Lookin' good Billy-Ray"! "Feelin' good Lewis"!

James Cagney?

"Sanford and Son" "Book em' Danno!"

Jumpin' Jack Flash I'm sittin' in the railway station got a ticket for my destination

You have to be honest about what you're saying, here. You're describing a completely one sided intellectual affair. If that were the case the impossibility would be real. It's not one sided and it's not all intellectual. God had his mind on us before we put our minds on him. Further, none of us knew all the religions when we first believed. Someone might have considered the inflection point in dating human history is based on one major religion but in the end, it was set out there and we took it. Unapologetically, subjective experience is a big part of it.

These are some of the “godly” laws dictated by God: Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.—1 Peter 2:18 He that striketh his bondman or bondwoman with a rod, and they die under his hands, shall be guilty of the crime. But if the party remain alive a day or two, he shall not be subject to the punishment, because it is his money.—Exodus 21:20–21. But if what he charged her with be true, and virginity be not found in the damsel: They shall cast her out of the doors of her father’s house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death, and she shall die: because she hath done a wicked thing in Israel, to play the whore in her father’s house: and thou shalt take away the evil out of the midst of thee.—Deuteronomy 22:20–21 If a man have espoused a damsel that is a virgin, and some one find her in the city, and lie with her, Thou shalt bring them both out to the gate of that city, and they shall be stoned: the damsel, because she cried not out, being in the city: the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour’s wife. And thou shalt take away the evil from the midst of thee.—Deuteronomy 22:23–24[5] These are just a few of the laws an atheist society would probably not include in their laws.

If I was inclined to be involved in a group that believed in God I would have absolutely no problem joining TWI. How can anyone claim that TWI’s doctrines are not based on the bible? There are over 2,000 other groups who also claim their doctrines are based on the bible. How can anyone say their Christian group, out of the over 2,000 in the world, make the claim their group is right? Why on earth do you believe your group has the a wrap on the truth? Then throw in all the other religions of the world, how you say your groups belief’s are the correct ones? Somehow, apparently, you have been able to wade through thousands of religions, and pickout the correct ones. Please assist me in picking the winning lottery numbers!

WordWolf said..." As you probably know- now if not decades ago when asbestos was popular- the thing has been responsible for a lot of deaths all on its own! Breathing in asbestos fibers is incredibly harmful to one's lungs, and can lead to a problem with its own name- asbestosis. (Feel free to look it up.) You might say that all people have to say about asbestos is negative now, and they ignore the good it's done. I think most people would reply that asbestos may have done well- and I would say it's saved lives- but it's more important to point out the incredible dangers of exposure to this dangerous substance than to focus on some of the benefits and IGNORE the dangers that could suffocate you or kill you. " I would say both asbestos and twi can kill in the same 'way'....slowly, cruelly and sucking the oxygen out of you....

It's the beleefs. Every time. I don't know JoyfulSoul, but reading his last two or three posts brought forth a wellspring of compassion for him. Only from reading the words he wrote, I gather he suffers deeply because of his beleefs. And, sadly, he won't let go to be liberated, or as he says, delivered. My ex-step son (is that a thing?) has serious psychological disorders. He was clinically diagnosed in his teens, but because his mother and her wierwille-worshipping family are so vehemently opposed to a psychiatric diagnosis and treatment, his disease progressed and worsened. Today he is in prison. I was with him one night when he was having a psychic break. He babbled a bunch of nonsense about heaven and hell and the devil and Israel, etc. His own Corps grad uncle never got the green light or cookie or whatever to cast out the psychological disorders. Now the young man is spending the rest of his life in prison. Little children are more "spiritually mature" than all actors in this tragedy. They have yet to be conditioned to beleeve anything at all.