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Very helpful Twinky!! Thank you! And I modified your last paragraph a little so I could put it in my own words- hope OK! "...we ALL need grace in this life. Real grace and loving kindness, I mean. Not pretend/false grace to match the critical controlling spirit's words and actions, and the power/sexual abuse of women (and men), and the definitely pretend/false faults and failings. And personal- I failed in the way corps, SO WHAT??? I broke down under the pressures, OF COURSE!! I did my level best but it wasn't good enough - well YES, I was recovering from previous and current trauma! And now, my recovery is happening in amazing ways! Jesus was there all along! The "God who sees" never abandoned, and there are folks as here at GSC, who are caring and sharing wonderfully! Best to all!!

I understood your reply, Lifted Up. People have different styles of responding to things they quote. And sometimes the function doesn't work as well as one might expect. It would be fair to say that everyone who gets to, say, 25, has some baggage to "process." Heck, even by 5 years old, some have already waaaay more than their fair share to have to deal with. Unfortunately, TWI burdened anyone with more than a passing acquaintance, with a lot of unnecessary baggage - guilt, fear, intimidation, abandonment by God, sexual mores shot to pieces, family relationships shattered - they took our vulnerabilities and exploited them; they took our strengths and told us we were relying on our own strength not God's (not even on the abilities that God himself may have given us). No wonder many escapees were confused (at best) and terrified (at worst) when getting away from the place. Oh yes. TWI leaders were very good at "confronting" people (what an aggressive term!) and not at all good when it came to being confronted themselves. They thought God was in their every word and action, or so they'd have the minions believe. Most churches would prefer to "come alongside" someone with a difficulty - whether a difficulty caused by lack of knowledge, or a difficulty from their own wilfully inappropriate behaviour of some sort. We are ALL sinners by nature. And we ALL need grace to extinguish our sins. Real grace and loving kindness, I mean. Not pretend grace to match the often pretend anger and the definitely pretend faults.

There's a new video on TWI's law of believing. The law of believing is an important teaching in TWI. VP Wierwille taught that people cause good or bad results in their lives (wealth or poverty, life or death) by their positive or negative believing. Few recognize that Wierwille taught an atheistic system (even though he believed in God) that he learned from Albert Cliffe, not from the New Testament. Those who accepted Wierwille's teaching struggled with the conclusion that VPW must have caused his own early death by cancer.

A) JAL never apologized to anyone about bringing in a harmful program, or shilling a harmful program- which he does to this day. Either he DOESN'T CARE it's a harmful program, or he's such a raving idiot he's NOT AWARE it's hurt a LOT of people, and its practices pretty much guarantee it. It's well-known this is a harmful program. The Momentus people know other people know that- which is why they keep HIDING THE NAME and CHANGING THE NAME. So, if JAL is that slack-witted that he's the only one who doesn't know this is harmful, he has NO business leading ANYBODY. If JAL DOES know it's harmful and DOESN'T CARE that it harms God's People, then he has NO business leading ANYBODY. The closest thing we got to a apology was his blanket insult that we would dare to criticize his decisions here. B) How beneficial can a program be if there's a "conspiracy of silence surrounding what it's really like" (and Momentus certainly has that)? There should be a chance to get a general idea of the outline for the program. (I'm not saying they have to show every instant, but people should be able to make an INFORMED DECISION as to what is suitable for them, not to just to have to "take my word for it and pay for this weekend program." How "safe" is a program where you have to sign a waiver that exempts them from being responsible if people get hurt? For those who don't know, this is common sense. Any program run to teach anything has certain responsibilities that are expected LEGALLY as well as MORALLY. They are called "fiduciary responsibilities." If you take an exercise program, those responsibilities include making sure the students begin in decent health, and their health isn't jeopardized by the program in any way- no unsafe food supplements, no exercises that MIGHT damage a few but be fine for many, and so on. In a program like Momentus CLAIMS TO BE, there should NOT be the radical breakdown attempts that are part and parcel OF the program- since those lead DIRECTLY to people suffering the breakdowns. Regardless of any papers signed, there's a fiduciary responsibility and the "trainers" are open to civil suits if not criminal ones.

I wasn't going to get into specifics about what that PP nonsense COST him personally. It's fair game to note that- if not FOR that cost- he would STILL be pushing that doctrine, no matter how much it hurt OTHER people- none of whom got an apology. We had threads here where we showed how the whole PP thing didn't match the Bible, and we had a thread where we outlined exactly how it worked (there's nothing supernatural about it.) JAL couldn't see any of that from the beginning, That doesn't bode well for his skill as a Christian or Biblical leader. (I'm not trying to lead something, and I saw it immediately and with little effort.) At the same time, he was still trying to get us to follow where he led. He neither led wisely nor saw that he was NOT leading wisely. (I can tell when I'm out of my depth or wrestling outside my weight-class.) A surfeit of pride- or a dearth of aptitude and skill- could explain that, but it certainly doesn't EXCUSE that. That doesn't even get into the Momentus debacle that he's STILL pushing- and has the brains to do silently. This speaks well for his brains- while speaking POORLY for his INTEGRITY. He learned from vpw to keep inconvenient truths from the public eye, but not to stop doing the wrong thing- just how to keep from getting caught. Furthermore, his "internet ministry" works well for him on paper. He has low overhead, can solicit funds, and doesn't have to actually get involved with real people other than by serving up empty platitudes- like in twi. The man has made a few cosmetic changes, but is mostly the same alleged "leader" he was in twi, with little actual GROWTH since then. I've gotten decades more wisdom, why hasn't he?

"John Lynn brings half a century of Bible teaching experience..." Well, yeah, he's been teaching something purporting to be Bible teaching, and for half a century - but that doesn't make it true, accurate, honest or (actually) even Biblical. Take a verse or two out of context and build a doctrine on it... everybody should try it. Why not? There's enough fools out there.

I can't choose his life for him, but I wish he'd consider retirement. I'm sure he's completely sincere about his desire to help people, but his track record shows a less-than-stellar set of results. As someone said once of a fictional character, whenever he wants to help someone, he ends up hurting them, like a vicious Saint Bernard. Between the "personal prophecy" debacle and continuing to shill "Momentus" under-the-table while saying openly he wasn't, I think that's enough of a BAD track record to reconsider his choices. Instead, he's "doubled-down" each time.