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Speaking of Heefner and Doop, I came across this bit of history of the early, INDEPENDENT days of the late 1960's hippy Jesus movement. VPW stole their work and followers. https://www.godreports.com/2018/08/communal-hippie-house-in-s-f-bay-area-was-ground-zero-for-jesus-movement/?fbclid=IwAR0Db2IWzotC4dgk3EtA6Hhs6s9ZFzhuIt4muxadCf2CUSWydK9XzJlWe0Y

Oh yeah – you nailed it Bolshevik! An alarming aspect of TWI-follower’s/big PFAL-fans’ fascination with demonology is the amount of control it affords cult-leaders. They elevate consequences for disobedience to the most frightening level. TWI-leadership used the fear of devil spirits, fear of getting possessed and fear of the power and influence exercised by those supposedly “born of the seed of the serpent” the way some parents use the boogeyman to frighten their kids into parental-approved behavior. To NOT follow TWI-guidelines or even worse to recklessly oppose TWI-leadership is to risk punishment from Satan’s minions. That’s something wierwille/Craig did to keep us trapped inside their theological box. We didn’t need to fear what the adversary could steal from us or do to us since wierwille/Craig already stole... or sabotaged our greatest asset – the ability to THINK and CHOOSE.

In studying the deceptive tactics of wierwille and co. to advance their agenda, with a sullied and sordid list that stretches from plagairism to predation to posthumously preachment, the bottom of the bottom line was......the manipulation of one's consent. Thread after thread, I cannot help but see that twi is the usurper of the core of the individual, one's consent. Whether its in written form, or verbal, or nonverbal condoning......twi continues its spiritual assault on their followers UNTIL THEY RESIST. As long as one stays in that 'relationship of insubordination'.....twi leadership are in control of your life. You are allowing it. Perhaps, the mindset is so ingrained with such spiritual abuse, that the twi follower is unaware of its prowess, and its damaging effects. Whether....1)Incrementalism, 2)Hold the microphone--Hold the power, 3)Instruction vs Indoctrination, 4)Reeducation Camps at HQ, 5)Most Fiery Confrontations Leveled at Dissenting Leaders, 6)Corps: The Leash Gets Shorter...etc. etc.....every stage, every program, twi is targeting YOUR CONSENT OF APPROVAL. Of course, the early stages involve love-bombing and aggressive undershepherding and keeping you away from your friends, family and co-workers. And obviously, the pfal class and subsequent classes have no room for dialogue and questioning the material. The droning of information is overloading your brain circuits.....DECEPTIVELY AND INTENTIONALLY. In the mid-'70s, one of those deprogrammers claimed that "The Way International was one of the most deceptive and subtle cults in America." Unlike other dramatic cults of that era where Moonies sold flowers and Jim Jones' followers set up a Jonestown commune.....the way ministry was not like that. After all, even Bud Morgan endorsed its message with the film 'Changed' featuring the Str@uh@l Family and events surrounding PFAL '77. Yet......how many took notice that the Str@uh@l family exited a few years later? One consent and one step at a time, twi strengthened its power. Having finished the advanced class, twi sent out a form letter stating to the grad that, now, he/she 'owed his life to the ministry.' Ballsy, huh? What an outrageous claim! What a power-grab of individuality! The proper response should have been......A ONE-FINGER SALUTE. In isolation and behind closed doors, the corps program was a 'power grab of consent' in one full swoop. Many, of which I am one, perceived it more along the lines of bait-n-switch. Yes, I'd signed on the line for christian service.....BUT I DIDN'T SIGN UP FOR THIS! My mind swirled with rebellion in the first month of that inresidency year! Why so many classes? Always? Why can't we have a night off to enjoy the sunset? Are you kidding me?....self-structure time on Saturday is from 1-4:30pm....BFD! And really, you dumb-shxts don't have to regulate my aerobic point. I'm so d@mn tired of sitting in classes....I WANT TO RUN AND GET OUT OF THIS PLACE. From newbie to clergy........twi has devised a system of usurping one's consent. At no point along this chain do you hear, "Why don't you go home and pray for the Lord's guidance and see what He has in store for you?" Each step, each time you consent....the doors to this secret temple lead you down another passageway. Whether there's 33-layers to this pyramid, in Masonic-like structure, I don't really care to know....but what I do know? The deeper in you go, the more non-Christian its virtues. By the grace of God, I found my way out. And, today I stand strong on individual liberty and will not let it go. No longer will I allow groupthink to sway my integrity or my morals. Giving away one's consent...is giving away one's life. Proverbs 1:10 My son, if sinners entice thee, consent thou not.

Using figurative wording: "Wag more bark less", comparing us to dog pets. Or comparing us to kitty cats, "Purr more growl less". I hope that I at least got you to laugh a little bit. I even have a sticker on the back of my car that says "Wag More Bark Less".

whether it's him or not - if you ask me, that all just seems like crocodile tears…speaking of insincerity I think some folks have a wishy-washy and unbiblical approach to sin in the Church… one very suspicious poster named Robinette Byden came on Grease Spot back in October of 2020 – though unspecified in their posts the main thrust – going on the details and context given - was about forgiving Martindale…In one of their posts > here “In all due respect to your response, WordWolf, I don't believe I was active with The Way during this "MOMENTUS incident", maybe if I had, I wouldn't give John Lynn the time of day right now. I can't help but think of somebody like Pastor Jim Bakker, who back in the 80's had a multi-million dollar world-wide ministry called the PTL Club and then served several years in Prison on Fraud charges. Today, Bakker remarried, has a church service in Branson MO, and managed to get a weekday, half hour show on Daystar TV. Not too shabby, but it's clearly a mere shell of the Ministry Bakker had 35-40 years ago.her On one hand, I respect the hundreds, if not thousands, of people who literally got exploited by Bakker via contributing tons of money to his ministry while he and then wife, Tammy Faye Bakker were living like grossly spoiled billionaires, to either go worship elsewhere or just plain not do anything at all for God anymore. I definitely get it. On the flip-side, I'm eternally grateful that God Almighty gives Second Chances to people. If Jim Bakker is still ripping people off and messing them over spiritually, I'm sure God will make him pay for that on Judgement Day. Ditto with King David having an affair with a married woman and still continuing as Israel's spiritual leader. Ditto with Paul the Apostle representing God after murdering numerous Christians. Just for the record, I'm not a "member" to either John's TLTF, or Bakker's Branson MO church, nor have I given even a penny to either of their ministries. If either or both are con artists ripping people off or destroying folks spiritually, I'm sure God Almighty will deal with them come Judgement Day. Call me naive or gullible if you will, but I just respect these two guys or anybody else who strives to make an effort to do God's Will. Will there be some back-sliding here and there? Probably, but give them some credit for persistence and determination. I hope, WordWolf, this clears some stuff up a little bit. Peace out.” = = = = = I quoted Robinette Byden’s post and in my response > here and I said: “Hi Robinette Byden, Your posts have brought up some interesting points and after giving them some thought I wanted to address a few things. God does forgive – but he does not always remove the consequences of sin. You mentioned David remained king even after his sins (adultery and the murder of Uriah). That’s true but even though he was forgiven there were severe lingering consequences. Since he had done evil to another man’s family, King David would receive evil in his own family – the rape of Tamar (daughter of David by Macaah) by David’s son Amnon and then another son of David Absalom avenges Tamar by murdering Amnon ( II Samuel 13 ). Sometime later Absalom was rebellious – and quietly built up support, declared himself king and mounted a revolt at Hebron, forcing David to flee to Jerusalem ( II Samuel 15 ); later on Absalom set up a tent on the roof of the palace ( perhaps throwing in David's face where his adulterous musing began) and had sexual relations with David’s concubines to assert his right to his father’s throne ( II Samuel 16: 21, 22 ) – fulfilling the judgement pronounced by Nathan ( II Samuel 12: 11, 12 )…after his affair with Bathsheba and his murder of Uriah, David wrote of his confession and plea for forgiveness in Psalm 51 ...the whole mess was not something that was swept under the carpet. Moving on to your reference of Paul chosen to be an apostle of Jesus Christ even after he so violently persecuted the church – you left out the most critical life-changing event – his conversion – being witnessed to by Jesus Christ himself! Paul’s former life as a persecutor would indeed look odd on an application to be a pastor of a church. Who would hire someone like that? Indeed many Christians initially had a hard time believing this persecutor had changed for the better and was now truly one of them ( Acts 9 )…Paul even said of himself he was unworthy to be called an apostle – probably recalling his previous life of overseeing the imprisonment and death of Christians – but he could not deny the effect of God’s grace and forgiveness ( I Corinthians 15 verses 8-10 ) “The conversion of Paul, in spite of his attempts to completely eradicate Christianity, is seen as evidence of the power of Divine Grace, with "no fall so deep that grace cannot descend to it" and "no height so lofty that grace cannot lift the sinner to it." It also demonstrates "God's power to use everything, even the hostile persecutor, to achieve the divine purpose." From Wikipedia on the conversion of Paul . Again Paul's former lifestyle as a persecutor of the Church was not something that was swept under the carpet.” And ended my post by asking Robinette Byden: “Hey, I was wondering - and I hope it's not rude to ask - What did you do in TWI? Corps? WOW? Leadership roles? Why did you leave TWI? What do you do now – fellowship wise?” ~ ~~ ~ But I never got a response…like I said earlier - I tend to be suspicious of crocodile tears…especially when they seem to want to guilt me into doing the supposedly Christian thing of forgiving…to me it’s a wishy-washy and unbiblical approach to sin in the Church wrapped up in a multi-colored coat of hypocrisy, piousness, pretentiousness, and self-righteousness. Comparing apples to oranges - it’s always interesting to compare “the world’s” reaction to big time sins and the way some fallen preachers wish to be treated. I think of the public’s reaction to the bad behavior of people like Larry Nassar, Harvey Weinstein, Bill Cosby, and Jeffrey Epstein…You can knock all the organized religions that you want to – but I have a lot of respect for any of them when they not only air their dirty laundry, but also hold people accountable, and deal justly, legally, and fairly with all involved in order to hold true to the principles of their faith. "Must be something wrong with our scale of values" ...yikes ! another blast from the past

I'm confident it's not really him.

If it is really LCM he's still using cultspeak in those tweets. He's apologizing in terms of a fantasy and not in terms of consequences as others would perceive.

Good find Stayed Too Long ! Thanks. So I listened to a few of them and noticed on this one https://archive.org/details/the-remnant-of-grace-81-2-23-2020 A brief description was given: “The Remnant of Grace, For Modern Day Believers Who Are Freed From Spirit Realm Incarceration. Everything in LIFE is Ephesians 6:12; But: 1 John 4:4.” ~ ~ ~~ The wording is so clunky and reminded me of Craig’s typical sensationalistic demonology that appeals to fans of wierwille’s spiritualism …then my brain went to a passage with something along those lines: 1 Peter 3:19–20 "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; (20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water." (KJV) ~ ~ ~ ~ Then being in the spirit of spritely and devious - I thought of the Bizarro World Enquirer headlines: Ousted Cult-Leader Helps Spirits in Prison Escape

Some of us, here at GSC......have been proactively searching, analyzing and unraveling the twi-deception for over 20 years. Through the years, posters (mostly corps) have brought forth significant information of past situations and events that have been silenced in cover-up tactics. Thus, it is understandable how later corps and advanced class grads who became involved after 1978 were unaware of the depth and depravity of wierwille and his enablers. The top-down power structure in twi quickly amassed more power and control after 1972. Vague --- the corps program was an allegiance to wierwille. Under the guise of vague terms and commitments, the corps program was billed as training those with natural leadership abilities for "a lifetime of Christian service." There was a mystique of a "secret society" training for the spiritual elite.....few corps grads would divulge the ins-and-outs of their corps training. Vows of silence. Lock box secrets. Opaque --- many came to understand glimpses of *the way international* from reading Elena Whiteside's book The Way: Living in Love. Highly sanitized and sophomoric in content, very little transparency (opaque) was gained by a sycophant reading of this book. Classes, programs, history, finances, etc.... were deliberately opaque. If one probed to ask more questions, then he was soon confronted and targeted for being untrusting, a dissident. Incremental --- perhaps, one could dismiss wierwille's ministry as a rumbling, bumbling, back-woods organization that was overwhelmed with rapid growth. But when incremental patterns form consistently to advance power and growth......one sees that this "power highway" ONLY GOES IN ONE DIRECTION..... centralizing authoritarian control. Individual independence recedes and dependency on twi for direction and guidance in life ascends. Note: "Christ in you" teachings were rarely taught or emphasized (by 1978).....twi had become the *mediator* between you and God to pacify one's guilt and condemnation of sin. Just stay faithful to going to twig and you, indeed, are in "good standing with God." Sleight-of-hand.....in plain sight. Encroaching ---without the corps program, wierwille would have been unable to implement his narcissistic agenda of lusts and power. And further, when the 6th Corps sign-ups had crossed beyond 300....the trustees scrambled to find a campus. No way could headquarters house, feed and train this surge of growth. The college of Emporia was empty and on the market for sale. Thus, the 6th corps went in-rez at Emporia. Parents and families, too, wanted to be "trained".....so Family Corps were in training at Rome City, Indiana. Nothing amplified wierwille's power and control throughout twi more than the corps program. It contained all the elements of a cult subculture: 1) isolation, 2) levels of allegiance, 3) pecking order, 4) allegiance to the "man of God," 5) secret teachings and status, 6) two-tier system of spirituality, 7) and wierwille relished in adding fuel to this burning fire. Encroachment flourished. Accusing --- the pyramid structure in twi was absolute. No one held wierwille to account. He ruled by manipulation, intimidation and fear. His judgments were never over-ruled. Whether it was his failure over the first corps program (of which, he deflected blame and labeled it "the zero corps).... or his failure to produce an updated pfal class (PFAL '77). His enablers and inner circle would obfuscate the failures/details and keep the wierwille-mystique alive. The corps were to blame, at times, for some of his failings or "prophecies." All those Camp Gunnison prophecies of a unique western-style restaurant on the hillside, retirement cabins and center for elder corps, a dynamic summer-fun family camps, etc. .... fell to the wayside because the corps didn't believe. When more corps began exiting by 1977 and 1978, wierwille started sending out his personal corps letters to the corps household. He opined that corps were leaving him....... accusing corps of forsaking him. Purging --- looking back, I see that purging the ranks has ALWAYS been one of wierwille's hallmark traits. Narcissists, like petty tyrants...... cannot allow dissent to build. From 1957-1972, vpw struggled to pay the bills and build a following. So, when Perez, Heefner, Doop, and others were having great success, it threatened his (vpw's) backwater teachings at the brc. The youth movements DID NOT NEED WIERWILLE.... life and the power of God were moving mightily without him. Thus, the little narcissist did the thing that authoritarians do. He purged the "rogue leaders" and set the channels of leadership into the hands of establishment control: his corps leaders. Then, the vows of silence (cover-up) were issued. Move on. No talking about this power-grab and purge. Same thing happened with the three 8th corps who did "rogue research" in 1978. Wierwille had them purged from the corps. Wierwille fumed about this for months. Those who were on the research team like Charlene witnessed the core deception that twi didn't really do biblical research. In fact, there were several others who were purged thru the years from the research department. See the pattern? It is easily documented that wierwille/twi has been purging leaders since 1969 or so. Also, in the isolated confines of corps campuses and motor coaches, wierwille could PURGE ANY CORPS GIRL who refused his sexual predation and label her "possessed." Cult leaders hold absolute power of purging the ranks whenever they cross his agenda. Long-standing staffers were systematically purged from headquarters ..... and faithful twig coordinators on the field were purged from their positions and replaced with corps-trained sycophants. These purges significantly changed the *old ways* with an aggressive, lockstep agenda. The gentle, God-loving staffers were strategically replaced with the young, brown shirt-loyalists. Many saw the signs and headed for the exit doors (1977-1980). Harry Wierwille died in October 1977. No longer did wierwille have his older brother around to look over his shoulder. Some have indicated on GSC that this, too, allowed wierwille to be unleashed. His narcissism, mixed with sexual predation, was racing against the clock. Wierwille was 60 years old and all those years of heavy drinking were taking its toll. Martindale, too, implemented a series of purges from 1992-2000..... each and every purge added to the fear and frenzied atmosphere at the time. And, many splinter groups went thru iterations of purging others. In fact, CES/STFI was notably altered during their "Momentus" push to cycle people thru that extreme guilt/confession/isolation that targeted and destroyed lives. If it's vague, opaque, incremental, encroaching, accusing, purging....it's probably bad. WE WITHDREW OUR CONSENT. WE EXITED TWI. .

And....it was worse than THAT. Many of us corps were assigned every 3 or 4 years to move to another state. From our meager bank accounts, we paid for the U-hauls, the upfront deposits, moving expenses and any incurred storage fees. Upon arrival, we found grads who were hurt and withdrawn as a result of bullying by the departing corps "leader." So, we rolled up our sleeves and toiled to regain their trust, respect and commitment to standards of moral and spiritual integrity. These gains were achieved by perseverance. Acquiring suitable secular employment was no easy task in a new state. Oftentimes, we didn't have references or recommendations to ease the transition. Needing to "hit the ground running," we had little time to find good secular employment so we'd settle for less....with the prospect of more. Is there any wonder why many corps moved in the circles of self-employment.....painting, landscaping, roofing, window cleaning, commissioned salesperson, etc..... when wierwille demanded ALL CORPS attend Corps Week and ROA each year? These directives exponentially burdened the corps. With each passing year, the central mandates and burdens from hq mounted. Add babies, toddlers and bills to pay....Oh, My! It was not just the secular job, but all the responsibilities that we were expected to juggle in the circus act. Witnessing. Teaching. Running Classes. Paperwork. How could the trunk office staff be SO OBTUSE to this groundswell of abuse leveled at the field corps? No Region, Trunk or Corps Coordinator had the gonads to tell wierwille (or martindale) that field corps could not keep pace with his narcissistic demands. Yeah....those jackasses that strut the halls of the OSC Building are the administrative pencil-pushers and looters of the productive. While many of us went into worn-torn states, toiled 70-80 hour weeks and saw God's grace and power in action......the directors, with their greedy-beady eyes, stashed more cash into twi-coffers. Robbing the areas of their strength and ability to grow and prosper....rather than keeping 85% in the state to use for operating expenses, room, building, etc. [agreement that Jimmy Doop outlined with wierwille]. This centralized funneling of abundant sharing to headquarters has been plundering states and areas since its devious inception. If you ever want to grasp the magnitude of how destructive these cult mandates were to the corps, just look at the massive exodus of field branch, area and limb coordinators. THOSE are the men and women who toiled in the trenches to help others until they could no longer withstand the financial burdens, the plundering from hq in God's name, the bullying and spiritual abuse. Not the staffers at hq. Not the advanced class grads ensconced in good-paying secular employment. The field corps. That's why ruthless directors at HQ are clamoring to have these seasoned field leaders return .

“Likely part of a cycle . . . perhaps the discard portion?” Rather than focusing on the narcissist again ……or the narcissistic cycle, I see a pattern that continues to emerge over and over again. GOOD PEOPLE, GOOD LEADERS WALK AWAY. More later……….

"I wish I were the man I know to be." victor paul wierwille I wish......... I were........ I know....... Translation: I see myself (a projected image) on a glorious stage as a world-renowned leader knowing there are millions upon millions who crave to hear me teach. When I speak, the throngs of crowds before me listen with reverence silence.........to hear words of majestic importance for their lives. From their subservient demeanor, I am assured that the Lord has called me to this great endeavor, place and time. .

Great correlations, Skyrider and it brings more thoughts to mind – that last paragraph is just scintillating ! The first thing my mind went to is the passage: “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are!” Matthew 23:15 NLT The entire chapter 23rd chapter of Matthew is an exposé on religious hypocrites. The label of “drill sergeants of groupthink indoctrination” makes me think of my ways corps training. And this is a real weird and out of focus concept I’m still trying to articulate. Way corps program created by the premier hypocrite – wierwille. His first attempt zeros out - which makes me think of an old proverb “Those who can, do; those who can't, teach” which means those who are especially skilled in a certain field will be able to pursue a successful career, while those who are less skilled will end up teaching about it instead. What that may indicate is that the work done in that field is too challenging, or simply the lack of capacity on their part....so wierwille even failed at being a teacher...or did he? Now here’s a quirky concept: what if the way corps training was really a clone factory – with a curriculum designed to turn out the ideal hypocrite – little wierwilles. Not everyone is going to excel at hypocrisy but those who do may aspire to be the corps coordinators and assistants. (Thought of the day to go along with Matthew 23:15 “each one hypocrifry one” – not sure if “hypocrifry” is a real word – but it could be – “I wish you could see it in the original – it’s just oh no…” Hypocrisy – noun - the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense. Hypocrifry – verb - to cook someone’s conscience in a pan, griddle or way corps campus over the blistering heat of constant beratement especially with the use of fat (the natural sleazy, greasy, creepy substance occurring in the body of wierwille’s “doctrine”). * * * * and now a brief intermission * * * Talk amongst yourselves Do the 4-15s note to self: find out how vampires take a self-assessment if they don’t see their own reflection in a mirror Now back to our show… “It seems to ALWAYS be the corps coordinators and assistants ...... who start up Splinter Cults” and the beat goes on – meaning the virus of wierwille’s-hypocrisy-rich-doctrine moves on regardless of whether or not other suckers fall for it. Virus just might be an apt description of wierwille’s-hypocrisy-rich-doctrine. I’m trying to remember wierwille’s advanced class teaching regarding detecting devil spirits – something like “whenever something has life in itself it’s spirit” – or some bull$hit like that…what does it matter…it’s just more bull$hit from the spiritualism-musings-of-an-ancient-hypocrite…anyway, that got me thinking about how viruses replicate – something I remember from reading The Hot Zone: The Terrifying True Story of the Origins of the Ebola Virus by Richard Preston explaining how viruses work – they can’t reproduce – so they sneak into other cells and tell them “make more of me”. Sounds like wierwille talking doesn’t it. Did a quick search of how viruses replicate and found this: “Viruses cannot replicate on their own, but rather depend on their host cell’s protein synthesis pathways to reproduce. This typically occurs by the virus inserting its genetic material in host cells, co-opting the proteins to create viral replicates, until the cell bursts from the high volume of new viral particles.” from News-Medical Net Health: viral replication almost sounds like the strategy of a parasite. wierwille was a parasite in every way - not just in plagiarism. Is narcissism parasitic? Looked up the definition of Malignant narcissism – it’s a psychological syndrome comprising an extreme mix of narcissism, antisocial behavior, aggression, and sadism. Grandiose, and always ready to raise hostility levels, the malignant narcissist undermines families and organizations in which they are involved and dehumanizes the people with whom they associate. That def is from Wikipedia – and it had a picture of wierwille next to it – no no – just kidding – but I wish you could see it in the original…ok no more PFAL-flashbacks…but I do think there’s a PTSD for some grads – “it’s like I’m still in the class, man.” Forrest Gump should tell them about Grease Spot Café…

This question would be better answered by those who were there. What I know is that they were with the House of Acts. That was a hippie movement of "Jesus freak" Christians. I'm under the impression that those were humble Christians of faith who were causing a stir in Haight Ashbury by being themselves. https://www.greasespotcafe.com/ipb/topic/23755-the-jesus-hippie-movement/

"When did twi's stranglehold on wierwille's mog-status, impact and legacy lose its grip? Did the stranglehold cease when many clergy/corps dissented and exited in late '70s or early '80s? Did the stranglehold cease when wierwille died in May 1985? Did the stranglehold cease when geer read "The Patriarch" paper at corps week, 1986? Did the stranglehold cease when lynn and others wrote that 37-page proclamation? Did the stranglehold cease with an exodus of a reported 80% of corps leadership? Did the stranglehold cease when dozens of splinter groups started preaching "the truth?" When did the stranglehold cease? Well......imo, the stranglehold ceased when twi-gatekeepers could NO LONGER control the message or contain the secrets. The leaders (cough, cough) who exited en masse after "the poop paper propaganda" did very little to release the wierwille-the-man-of-God vise grip. The geer camp kept beating the same drum. The lynn camp did better.....but just seemed to sidestep the wierwille doctrine/legacy in many ways. What about the finn3gan camp? The summ3rville camp? Others? The shr0yer camp seemed to embrace the wierwille doctrine more closely.....of which, the two younger wierwille kids hitched a ride to keep the embers glowing? The stranglehold was BROKEN when Waydale in April 1999 took the fight directly at Martindale and twi. The full onslaught of punches caught martindale/twi off guard and in a defensive posture. Pa-ul All3n hit them with an uppercut that left them staggering to find the ropes. From a position of husband-rage and legal strength, this man went on a relentless, 18-hours a day, flurry of punches that staggered the corporate "giant." Month after month, the scandalous secrets poured forth on Waydale. Twi mandated that their followers stay off the internet and, it didn't take long before martindale had to publically admit to this "consensual affair." Twi knew that Waydale was, indeed, a formidable foe. .....snip ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ After the *1986 Corps Exodus* ...... lots of those EX-corps coordinators went forth to start splinter groups and initiate the SAME CLASSES AND PATTERNS that they learned from wierwille. After the *2016 Corps Exodus* ...... four of those EX-corps coordinators went forth to start splinter groups and initiate the SAME CLASSES AND PATTERNS that they learned from wierwille. See the pattern? That's why Waydale/GSC has been INVALUABLE to setting the captives free. .

Rocky......yes, THIS is the essence of twi being classified, by some, as a cult. Unlike the many bizarre cults like moonies, hare krishnas, people's temple, heaven's gate, branch davidians, etc.....twi offered this christian youth movement that captivated the solidarity of its followers. No selling flowers at airports or meditating for hours in solitude, twi was attracting followers in ways far deeper that public perception could ever imagine. I contend that wierwille and co. stumbled-bumbled their way into this system rather than some deep sinister masterplan of sorts. Failures are easily documented throughout wierwille's tenure.....but it is notable that a system of indoctrination was developed wherein someone like Rocky, in the above post, notes after 25 years of detachment that "it remains a major aspect of life between my ears." How can that be? And, how is it.....that long-standing followers hundreds of miles away are still fiercely loyal to their doctrines knowing full well that wierwille was a plagairist, a predator and a drunkard?

Subtlety indeed. VERY insightful thread. THIS is the essence of twi being a cult. And yet, how long did it take any of us to figure it out... at least enough to decide it was not what we were going to do with the rest of our lives. For me, it took 12 years. And it's been 25 or so years SINCE. Yet, it remains a major aspect of life between my ears... Young adults are so vulnerable...

I remember one Saturday night in FellowLaborers, everyone else in the house had gone to do laundry or something. I was there alone, no T.V., no phone, no newspaper, just an empty apartment with no sound or outside stimulus to speak of. I caught a glimpse of myself in a mirror and it was like a surrealistic moment. How did I get here? What am I doing here? How had I deviated so far from where I started that first night I was witnessed to? It was like a feeling of unexplainable and profound depression. Was I possessed? The Advanced Class had taught me that depression is a devil spirit. Eventually, I shook it off, refortified myself by recalling lessons from Dealing With The Adversary, Renewed Mind, and, of course, a remembrance of how we learned in session #7 that bad things happen to those who stop to "consider". So, yes, there was self consent/self delusion involved. But, we made those decisions to consent on a basis of flawed information. It's like buying a car because it has low mileage, only to find out that the odometer has been rolled back. You made the decision to buy the car but, the person who sold it to you purposefully misrepresented its true value. Well, I guess it would be easy to feel dumb about being deceived but you should never feel guilty. The deception wasn't your fault. They own the guilt, not you.