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Meanwhile, at the desk of The Way International’s CFO:

It was part of Oral Roberts' "Fourth Man" sermon. If you want to skip to it, it's found at 37:36

See heres the thing. wierwille's deification doens't fly outside of the way international's controlled environments. Within the walls of the way international it is considered unloving, bitter, dwelling on sin, dwelling on the negatives, David sinned, and fake accusations and fake boundaries all around the image of wierwille to keep the dead false prophet propped up. Truth is what it is...truth. The truth about wierwille cant stand the light of day because once the secrets hit the open air then the putrid stench hits eveyone's nostrils. Its taken dang near 20+ years for the way international to fully whitewash wierwiile into the image presented today by the way international. They had to scrub classes, edit and re-edit their publications, pull - edit - and re-release other classes...but without the whitewash wierwille is exposed for what he was: a drunken, plagairaising, lying false prophet who lived lavishly on people's donations. The only way wierwille can remain deified is to have a controlled cult environment where conversation can be controlled and people can be controlled and shamed away from the truth. Its a sad day when you have people who absolutely cannot see past a dead false prophet and cannot fathom life without his image as their blind guiding light.

Sorry took so long to reply! I very much appreciate learning about your and others' personal processings, and our Very Human Common Experiences and Ways of Dealing w/ Abuses, etc. So glad for your new freedom and fresh air!!!!!

Mike, I believe you are on a lost island when it concerns Jesus Christ. You have NO idea what awesome things he is doing in the lives of Christians all around the world and you will probably never know until Christ returns (or you go for a walk on the road to Damascus.) Then the eyes of your understanding will be finally opened and you'll have to say .

So I take it you are generally unhappy and come here out of a sense of unhappiness except you still wanna elevate wierwille above Jesus Christ.

Why would I need to ask anyone? I'm a big boy now and expected to form my own opinions.

Typical wierwille bullying tactic...try and shame people for telling the truth. Bitterness torch = truth. I follow Christ's lead and whichever direction that takes is where I go. 50 years and your still lost.

It seems to me, it's you who has dodged the challenge to look beyond to see more clearly. Does the positive stuff, as scant as it was, negate the negative stuff? Nevermind, I'm pretty sure in your mind it does.

There's a bitterness torch? Why hasn't someone told me?

Sad really..Mike has spent 50 years rifling through wierwilles doctrinal trash and after all that time Mike still doesn't know Jesus Christ...the focal point of the ages and the center piece of Christianity. Mike whoever has the son has the father...if u don't have the son you don't have the father...

Mike seems to have ‘mastered’ bluffing, dodging and derailing. Mind you I use the term “mastered” loosely - it’s not that Mike shows great skill and proficiency in the inept way he bluffs , dodges and derails - perhaps it’s an unholy adoration of wierwille that has mastered him - like a taskmaster that drives him to mindlessly defend his idol. Mike said: Fools will settle only on their own light to guide them. That’s one hell of a projection! Way to go, Mike! Weird how Mike projects his own problems onto others - - assuming everyone needs a guide to replace the absent wierwille. Generally the issue with Mike vs Grease Spotters is Mike’s wierwille-centric belief system vs any other belief system that does NOT idolize wierwille.

Part of the hocus pocus snake oil sales is the idea of “mastering” fundamentals in spiritual truth via censoring yourself from anything that wasn’t printed by Vic and American Christian Press. No we don’t all have to “master” something. For example, Vic never “mastered” any of the original Biblical languages before teaching them. Few to none of the teachers in TWI have “masters” degrees in anything. Those that do are in different fields than Biblical or language studies. The blind leading the blind leads to a “mastery” of falling in ditches. That is about where TWI faith is at. But you want to de focus on you and talk about me so you can hide. I have found that putting your trust in man will leave you disappointed. Except for the one perfect man - trust in the Lord Jesus Christ will leave you delighted. I have also found that focusing on putting my trust in the works of man leave you disappointed. But focusing on the works of Christ leave you delighted. All of your questions seem to be framed at getting to Plaffy definitions. Like the Bible as your only rule of faith and practice and other such sound bites. Vic’s self interpreted Word is certainly not my rule of faith and practice. It is too flawed. It has BS cult interpretations of “household and family” of God leading to isolation from the full body of Christ. Who is doing a good job of guiding Gods people today would be my Lord and Savior at the right hand of the Father. He directs and guides via the Spirit to those members of His body throughout the world in various forms. But those that claim to be “the only ones” will be the only ones sitting in line while every other Christian is recognized first. Now let’s turn the focus back to you. Why do you continue to converse only in terms of Plaffy bondage? Why can’t you see beyond it?

If you don't know them it shows the deficiency of wierwilles theology. But u use his name as if u know him.

Ya know, for a guy who doesn't even know me, you sure seem to think you know a lot about me.

I follow Jesus Christ. He's the way to God...now ain't that simple? No false prophets needed.

Ohh...and Dr's last teaching...gotta master that too...geez I think you guys have forgotten what Dr said.....I dunno...I just dont get it...

Needs and wants parallel? Huh, in Wayland it was Greed and wants parallel.

Our first need is to get to know God. We should be learning of His love from our parents, and grow up understanding what love is. Some of us don't have parents who could supply that model. And for those people the need to know God, as a God of loving kindness, is particularly imperative. Not that it is of lesser importance to those who already have a concept of what loving kindness is. Because we've had more (or less) loving parents, we know what it is to have our daily needs supplied: shelter, warmth, food, clothing, companionship, and hopefully respect - that we're listened to. We also know that our loving parents denied us some things and required us to do other things. No, it's not candies all day every day. Yes, you do have to develop the discipline to go to school every day. No, you can't have that very expensive pair of trainers/pants/the latest electronic toy. Yes, you can have decent shoes, clothes, and things to do. No, you can't have everything just for yourself. Yes, you do have to share that toy with your siblings/friends. As growing teenagers there's a lot of peer pressure. But the true joy of friendship is that coming from supportive friends. We need to learn to appreciate that (and teach children to appreciate that). And that, one hopes, will set the tone for what one learns to appreciate about God. His friendship, his support, his givingness. Not just his provision of material things. Do these "prosperity" gospellers see their parents merely as providers of things they want? Of just being "money bags"? Do they value what their parents might have had to do, to provide those things? Or do they value the support, the kindness, the intangibles, that their parents provided?

Therein the ultimate CON JOB just had, once again, the curtain go up so we could all see it for what it was nearly 50 years ago that pulled us in. The sense of belonging kept us there (for me, it did so for 12 years), but... was the hook, from the start.

127. PFAL urges students to view a lot of the Bible as a blank check from God. In the first session of PFAL, wierwille was very excited about the more abundant life Jesus Christ made available. And he portrayed it as mostly material abundance – for he speaks with envy of what he observed in non-Christians. At one point he teaches to receive anything from God, the first thing one must know is - what is available. He also makes a claim there are over 900 promises in the Bible – and asks the class how many do you know? And then states that’s how many promises you can claim. Now consider the words of Jesus: but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful…Mark 4:19 I've known many Christians (besides myself ) who have fallen into discouragement, disillusionment, and disappointment with God over unbiblical expectations...I think in part we may have been misguided about prayer, and we get caught up in thinking financial prosperity and owning lots of stuff are proofs of God’s approval and favor. Grads of PFAL are often urged to think of certain passages of Scripture as a means to tap into God’s unlimited resources – like a blank check with the amount left for the payee (the believer) to fill in. How different from the modest life Jesus lived and promoted: Now it came to pass, as He was praying in a certain place, when He ceased, that one of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.” So He said to them, “When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come; your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us day by day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who is indebted to us. And do not lead us into temptation but deliver us from the evil one.” And He said to them, “Which of you shall have a friend, and go to him at midnight and say to him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves; for a friend of mine has come to me on his journey, and I have nothing to set before him’; and he will answer from within and say, ‘Do not trouble me; the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give to you’? I say to you, though he will not rise and give to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence he will rise and give him as many as he needs. “So, I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!” Luke 11 NKJV ~ ~ ~ ~ Jesus was teaching his disciples principles of prayer. God is pictured as a loving, caring, and righteous Father to all of us. It also speaks to the brotherhood of man. Not to be so stubborn in getting our way but to submit to the sovereignty of God. Our prayer life should be immediate – we think and focus on our needs of the current day. We treat others like we would like to be treated – and we imitate our forgiving Heavenly Father when we forgive others. We ask God for moral guidance when the way is not clear, and we ask Him to rescue us from bad decisions and overwhelming circumstances. Jesus taught we must be persistent in prayer – often I give up too easy. Sometimes I’m blinded by my own worry and don’t see that God may have already answered my request in a different way than what I expected. Sometimes we doubt if God will come through for us - or give us the wrong thing. I think James could be speaking to folks who are into the prosperity gospel. James warns, “You ask and receive not because you ask with wrong motives, so you can spend it on your pleasures” James 4:3 Having said that, as God’s children, we do have legitimate needs and in keeping with the whole of Scripture and what it teaches about prayer and the hindrances to prayer, etc., if we will ask according to God’s will, then we can know that as our Heavenly Father who knows and cares for our needs (our real need and not greed), He will answer according to His timing, purposes, and wisdom. Sometime thoughtfully read Hebrews 11 NIV and take note of the heroes of faith inducted into the divine hall of fame. Some conquered kingdoms, some faced imprisonment and death, some destitute and persecuted. Yet they were all commended for their faith. God declares the world is not worthy of the righteous. The Hebrews 11 believers did not receive all that was promised to them. Yet they endured. They stayed faithful. How is our endurance? I wonder how many prosperity-gospel-adherents would still be into Christianity if all that it offered was Jesus Christ. What is a Christian view of materialism? Merriam-Webster defines materialism as "a tendency to consider material possessions and physical comfort as more important than spiritual values." A preoccupation with anything that takes precedence over God and spiritual values is wrong for a Christian. And here’s some relevant hyperlinks to view at your convenience: What is a Christian view of materialism? (compellingtruth.org) Materialism and Christianity - Wikipedia Prosperity theology - Wikipedia Prosperity gospel | Definition, Origins, History, Theology, Criticism, & Facts | Britannica How American Life Is Impacted By The Prosperity Gospel : Throughline : NPR What Is the Prosperity Gospel? (tifwe.org) Prosperity Gospel | Topics | Christianity Today

The Way International Headquarters: The pomp and circumstance that goes into shipping the PFAL class out to areas of concern, interest and need.

Thanks for being so candid. Very inspiring, very inspiring. I can relate to God's compassion and love shining through and melting that tough outer shell some of us tend to develop. I guess for me I dont really take the flight method when engaged; I tend to fight even when theres nothing left to fight about. Just part of my human weakness really, not something Im proud of, ashamed really...but my point is this is an area of my life that Ive been addressing pretty heavily the past few months. A fellow GSC compadre has helped me to understand that my background and upbringing taught me to go from 0 to 150 as a survival mechanism. So for the longest there hasnt been a rational side of me once provoked. Its truly taken God's love and compassion to melt that calloused shell of mine and Im making genuine strides at temperance and controlling my anger and preferring not to fight, well unless no choice remains...but how often is that truly necessary? It helps to see others because you remind me that Im not alone and others are in the same struggles. Ditto on forgiving them, and I have. It took a while because when I first left TWI I checked out and was courted by three off shoots and they all were so adamant that I forgive wierwille, and others. At the time, and even still to a degree, I feel that their motivations were to keep the gravy train rolling with the same, but altered doctrines that wierwille taught. Over time though I recognized that I was hanging on to an excuse, even if the excuse was true in cases. Really, it feels good to have dropped the baggage and bitterness I used to carry. I feel like Frodo after he realized that the ring was truly gone....relieved and breathing fresh air. Cool perspective all the way across but point 5 is new to me and has my wheels turning. Thanks again!

And then, when you collapse from exhaustion or have a fit of the weepies, you get hauled in by the corps coord and asked if you're spiritually up to it, or are you too weak to hack God's work.