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I believe that the real deal is possible and the path toward it is to address and correct all the doctrinal and practical error introduced by VPs box top doctorate research. isolation from other Christians, rote mechanics in place of worship manifestations, conspiracy theory, lack of sexual boundaries (Schoenheit adultery paper), and wrong dividing of scripture to introduce spiritual abuse via the all powerful leadership. The easiest way to see all this is to start from the practical side. What tactics do all destructive cults have in common? Once you see they all have common elements of control and unquestioning obedience, you can work backwards easily to see the false doctrine that introduced the error. Make no mistake it was the false teachings of VPW that caused far more damage than his personal behavior.

Mike: "You are too much the stickler on exact vocabulary." Whatever happened to "mathematical exactness and scientific precision", and "God has a purpose for everything He says, how He says it, to whom He says it..." vpw pushed being a stickler on exact vocabulary. Of course, since he was wrong, we don't have to obsess, but since you insist he was right, you're supposed to agree with him and push FOR being a stickler.

In his final hours, vpw was seen searching his memory, determined to find some imperfection in his life in which God Almighty disapproved. He was unable to find it. vpw went to his grave feeling NO remorse for being a sexual predator, let alone drunk, false prophet, etc.

We refute the class because the class is riddled with contradictions and error and you resort to typical way international bullying tactiics. Allow me to elucidate: The poor ole me crap is tired and old, a card played by VPW till his dying day. The blaming the victims card is tired and old, a card played by VPW till his dying day. The resort to insults when challenged card is tired and old, a card played by VPW till his dying day. The superiority complex card is tired and old, a card played by VPW till his dying day. The attack other's faith as if it's not genuine card is tired and old, a card played by VPW till his dying day. All you wierwille-ites can do when legitametely challenged is turn hostile and then blame the one who raised the issue for wierwille's shortcomings. So you do what all good wafers do, you go on the attack then play the victim card when people stand up to it and then charge everybody with being stupid and hateful. An accusation that leaves three fingers pointing at yourself. I really wasnt even in this conversation and vouched for you being a real human, which people around here doubt because we have had "aggregate accounts" before where the account was used by a group of people, so would be no surprise that it happens again, but that's not you. You are real and sincere in posting here, I get that and realize I was wrong in my suspicions. And what do you do? You turn insulting and mean with me. So, you wanna go, let's go. We both know you lack the reasoning and debate skills to carry on an intelligent, calm, reasonable discussion on the matters. Its doubtful you will concede wierwille is wrong on anything and may well goto your grave convinced of his con game. You can't say you were never told otherwise.

Agreed. I would tweak that last statement, though, to note that his personal behavior functioned as instruction by example and, thus, encouraged others to indulge in harmful behavior as well..

Same old load of horse spit I had to listen to, all the way back in 1975, when I voiced concern over the direction of the FellowLaborer program. Substitute the name of any infamous villain from the past (Dahmer, Gacy, Manson, Stalin...) and try to justify their actions using the same line of reasoning. Wierwille wasn't "one of the good guys". It's really just that simple.

Right on. Im also thinking, from my own time as a good little wayfer, that mike imaginies he is battling devil spirits with the information we post. I mean, disagreements with wierwille always pointed to posession. So we are likely all hate filled, devil posessed cop outs and mike is here exercising his prowess in the spiritual competition. I saw, and participatied, in that delusional behavior my entire time in TWI. Example: Walmart witnessing, (silly made up example that actually happened ad infinitum) as I have a copy of golf digest (I hate golf) at the magazine aisle as I try and creep my way into a conversation I can turn to the class...finally I make eye contact and ask the person reading sport illustrated if they are an athelete...I then pounce and start preaching the spiritual competition....as they walk away hurriedly from the wacko reading golf digest who hates golf....I suddenly exercise discerning of spirits and realize that the guy who was reading sports illustrated and ran from me trying to preach the spiritual competition...is....posessed! See -- spiritual matrurity.

A big failure in comprehension of the actual forgiveness given by God and paid for by Jesus Christ. To even get to this point takes intervention by the holy spirit. To really experience it this will change a person, from the heart. And affect every action afterwards.

Sure Mike whatever you say 1But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, a putting them in chains of darkness b to be held for judgment; 5if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others; 6if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly; 7and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the depraved conduct of the lawless 8(for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment. 10This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the fleshc and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, they are not afraid to heap abuse on celestial beings; 11yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not heap abuse on such beings when bringing judgment on them from d the Lord. 12But these people blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like unreasoning animals, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like animals they too will perish. 13They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you. e 14With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood! 15They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Bezer, f who loved the wages of wickedness. 16But he was rebuked for his wrongdoing by a donkey—an animal without speech—who spoke with a human voice and restrained the prophet’s madness. 17These people are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. 18For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. 19They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.” 20If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,”g and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.” iI Peter 2

Mike, my dear Brother we are so close it’s not even funny. About the only thing I really disagree with you on is your assumption I’m doing black & white thinking or absolute thinking. I used to think that way – but since I left TWI I’ve been working on broadening the spectrum – which gives me a wider range of options to think about and choose from – like this monochromatic value scale: ~ ~ ~ ~ Polarized, black-and-white thinking is a big problem. It distorts our understanding of realities involving shades of gray, which most human realities are. Binary thinking produces misleading maps of a complicated, nuanced world. When we face difficult situations, all-or-none thinking blinds us to the possibility of a middle ground, leaving us with only simple, extreme options that rarely work. This type of cognition results in maladaptive emotions and behaviors, an array of mental health diagnoses too numerous to mention, and in its milder and more common forms, all sorts of problems in living and relationships. Everyone engages in black and white thinking sometimes, because it is quicker and easier than careful consideration of a spectrum of possibilities. Problems arise when we rely on it too much, especially in dealing with emotionally important situations, issues and relationships. Persistent problems in a particular life area suggest that some kind of dichotomous thinking is going on below the surface, driving the ineffective functioning. This is especially true when extreme emotions and/or behaviors occur, because these are the hallmarks of polarized cognition. From: How to Assess Black-&-White Thinking in Yourself and Others | Psychology Today End of excerpts ~ ~ ~ ~ I am no different than you Mike. I don’t have this Hollywood idea of the Christian lifestyle. I have a realistic idea of the Christian lifestyle. My day-to-day ‘interior’ living is an irregular pattern of switching back and forth between black and white thinking and a monochromatic value scale – but now after being out of TWI for some 37 years, it’s using the monochromatic value scale much more than using black and white thinking. As an example of before and after in self-examination: Recapping the extraordinary details of T-Bone’s Exciting Escape from Crazy Town > TBEEFCT episode whatever first aired 5/04/2023 1:04 AM , remember new episodes drop each time big-wierwille-fans drop the ball, streaming exclusively on Grease Spot TV cue the theme music and text “the more you know”: 1986: I left in 1986 from having a strong sense of disillusionment because of the failure of wierwille / Craig / TWI / the way corps program and WOW program to fulfill declared goals. There was also the constant accumulation of red flags when I observed inconsistencies between the actions of wierwille and Craig and the ideals they supposedly represented. Without realizing it at the time, Mike – I was doing what I always did in TWI – using black and white thinking to judge myself and others. 12 years of ignoring red flags with the last two years of being in-residence way corps to see wierwille and Craig’s darker side, unguarded moments and connecting the dots of sexually molested women who kept a stiff upper lip and get on with the program. Yeah, I was furious. Outraged! How dare these hypocrites demand I walk the talk but not themselves. 1986 – 2023: Mike, I’m a lot harsher and more judgmental on myself than you will ever know. And I cut everyone a lot more slack than you may think. What pi$$es me off about how you assume I have an unrealistic ideal of the Christian lifestyle is that I don’t fault wierwille or Craig for being human – but for being pretentious, pontificating behind a double standard. I think very highly of anyone who bravely and honestly admits they have a problem and tries to do something about it. Like an alcoholic joining AA. I’ve been married some 47 years and have never cheated on my wife. But Jesus doesn’t cut me any slack when He said But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart…. Matthew 5:28 NIV I’m an old fart now and don’t have the drive I used to – and I’m too embarrassed…ashamed…to reveal the times I’ve committed adultery in my heart… and let me just say my wife satisfies me completely in the 3 types of love (agape, phileo, eros) - so what can I say in my defense? I used to be a greedy horny little ba$tard. - but long ago I decided it’s better to please God and honor my Lord Jesus Christ…for me it’s been more of a spiritual battle within than without - now I’m pretty good about heading the temptation off at pass - - so the battle gets easier…so much for letting you in on my sinful nature.. .got better at nipping those thoughts in the bud and I have had and continue to have long talks with close friends – believers usually - on this issue I have. I want to do better. Mike, these are the comparisons I get into evaluating what I do versus what hypocrites like wierwille, and Craig did. At least I try to do better in watching what I think about and how I interact with women other than my wife - - and - - so far in 47 years of marriage - - I have not consummated my lustful thoughts of another woman which would do even more harm to others – the repercussions of to my wife and kids, to the woman’s life – and if she’s married and has kids, the consequences hit them too. One last thought. I talked about a love / hate relationship I have with wierwille and Craig on another thread. Folks who use black and white thinking don’t understand how that’s possible. Maybe it’s because they see the love / hate relationship in equal parts – 50% love and 50% hate. I don’t think that’s the way our minds usually work - or we’d be immobilized by strong and equally contradictory desires – like Robby the Robot in Forbidden Planet. There’s a great scene when his creator demonstrates the safety features built into Robby. See Robby the Robot - laws of robotics scene in Forbidden Planet (1956 film) - if it doesn’t go directly to the spot it begins at the 1:9-minute mark. My love / hate relationship with wierwille and Craig is like 20% love and 80% hate. They’re human beings – imperfect, yes – but I admire the good qualities I recognize in them and can relate to them as fellow humans – I don’t paint them up as absolute monsters. The 80% I hate is their unrepentant sinful behavior that earned them the titles of whatever their life-dominating sins were/are – sexual predator, liar, thief, etc. In good healthy relationships I think the ratio is 90% love of all that is decent, honorable, beneficial to self and others and 10% hate of the sinful nonsense that comes with every human.

That's is precisely what I experienced and observed my entire time in twi. Both way corps, especially way corps, but Joe disciple as well.

Oh boy, I missed this little jewel....I better post it up real quick before I forget what I was gonna post.... So to receive anything from God I need to have my needs and lusts paralell, or balanced, or balanced and paralell...I mean nevermind scripture tells us lusts are evil. So if I covet my neighbors wife but that covetousness is balanced out with my genuine need for sexual relations then God will provide my neighbors wife because my lust and needs are balanced. Now I understand wierwille, he was right all along for being a sexual predator and serial adulterer. Thanks! You make this crap up as you go? Or you really pulling it all from the collateral damage books and pflappy?

Martindale danced around with fake devil spirits on stage while wearing spandex. So what wierwille was a dancing monkey in the video who was too stupid to use the correct word to describe a scale being balanced and used the word parallel instead. Should come as no surprise as there are consequences to mail in doctorates. BTW - needs and wants dont need to be balanced either, thats utter bullshonta and you are using it to cover your @$$. But for the sake of argument: If needs and wants need to be balanced then thats an equal sized load of bullshonta that balances out with the bullshonta parallel concept. The burden of proof is on you. Show me one verse that says needs and wants need to be balanced before God can provide. So I have to have equal parts of need and equal parts want before I can receive anything from God....where you guys get this crap from? a spiritual coolbook? I can imagine the counsel now: Oldskool, to receive anything from God you have to have 1/3 cup of need exactly proportioned to 1/3 cup of want and those portions must be exactly parallel. Now, if you need something you don't want then God can't provide it, or if you want something you don't need then God can't provide it.. .........my Lord you can't make this stuff up...next thing you know mike will come along and tell us he re-watched the video (of course by candlelight in a dark room with pictures of VPW and his little bronze statue nearby) and he has proof that needs and wants must be parallell because wierwille was wearing black socks in the video so therefore the definitions of parallel and balanced are now kind of a hybrid where to balance anything the opposing items need to be parallel and equally portioned. The mathematical geomoetry is mind blowing...lo bullshonta mogadishu malakas many hypotenuse.

Some people view Charles Manson the same way. If you could only set aside the bad parts and see the good. The Wilson sisters from Heart seem to have this kind of undying connection to Charlie. Most however let that fantasy slide after watching or reading helter skelter. Some are just blind to any criticism or objective evaluation…

At what point do those who engage with the world's foremost authority recognize they are wasting their time and energy thinking they're doing anything other than spinning their wheels or tilting at windmills? Selah.

Right. I can get behind this verse. "Ask amiss" = ask with impure motives. But there is nothing about needs. It's not about the weight of the want, but the purity of motive behind the want. Good verse. Good teaching. Accurate. But doesn't fit the balance or the parallel of the FERD story. Plus, victor said your motives won't matter unless you beleeeve they will. He probably just crossed out this verse in his wide margin Bible.

So you are making up a new interpretation of “needs and wants parallel” from PFAL? And it is “needs and wants are balanced and parallel to the ground”? And this is represented by some hand motion of Wierwille in the class? You are getting farther and farther from reality. And your ego is inflated to the sky and beyond. You seem to hate all of the people with a different viewpoint than yours. I guess by your own self diagnosis that is the cause of your stupidity.

Once again, your writings are unmistakably stupid! according to you but really - - I’m tempted to think it might be some turd of an idea you probably found up wierwille’s a$$ - - let’s break that nonsense down: Mike said: God does the hard part in supplying what is said. What a gross misrepresentation of true worship…If God supplies the words then you’re saying God is a puppeteer . 1Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!” 3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8 “ ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 9 They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’ ” Matthew 15 NIV wierwille’s idea - - and apparently yours also, is that true worship is the fakery he taught in PFAL. You move your lips, tongue, mouth, etc., but do not think of the words. Expect God to supply the words. How utterly stupid for wierwille to teach that – and you’re doubly stupid for regurgitating it here. Where does the person’s heart fit in??????? Look at Matthew 15:8 - These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me…any 2-bit plagiarist, drunkard, thief pathological liar and sexual predator can honor God wit their lips – wierwille did that most of the time. Mike if you EVER get to finish reading Undertow you ought to suck it up and read Losing the Way: A Memoir of Spiritual Longing, Manipulation, Abuse, and Escape: Skedgell, Kristen: 9780972002196: Amazon.com: Books . And in light of you taking FOREVER to read a book that presents your idol wierwille in an unfavorable light and the fact that you don’t like to read anything but collaterals I recommend you skip ahead to, that I feel is a section that SHOULD be important to you pages 117 to 120. It’s the part where Kristen – working in housekeeping relates an incident when she placed a welcome letter on wierwille’s pillow in the Coachman Suite at Rome City – the note said she would “do anything to make his time more blessed here”. The following night, after the evening teaching, wierwille called Kristen to his suite. He has a glass of Drambuie in one hand and a cigarette in the other – he sits very relaxed – he had taken off his suit coat and tie, the top button of his white shirt was undone, and his shoes were kicked off. He asks her to sit on the bed and they exchange some polite small talk. He then asks her if she really meant what she said in the little welcome note. “Of course,” she says. Then wierwille says “Well, there is one thing you can do for me. I’d like you to take off your clothes. I’d like to show you how to really make love to a man. You know what I’m talking about. You’re of age. Don’t you want me to show you how to have intercourse? How to make love to a man of God!” In the book Kristen says “This is tantamount to a father soliciting sex from his daughter. The betrayal is unthinkable.” Trying to delay or avert wierwille’s advances, Kristen tried asking him how such an act is consistent with The Word. wierwille explains that all things are pure to the pure…it’s a matter of keeping our minds renewed and centered on God…a man of God needs many women to satisfy his overwhelming needs. There is nothing titillating when Kristen describes wierwille sexually molesting her. It’s like reading a police report of a daughter being raped by her own father…the first time I read this part my heart ached in sympathy for Kristen and there was utter revulsion over wierwille’s betrayal…after wierwille molested her, he says to her “It’s the lockbox, honey. You have to keep this in the lockbox of your soul. Many of God’s people wouldn’t understand what we’ve just done.” After you read Kristen’s book “Losing The Way”, feel free to come back to Grease Spot and discuss anything that was too cerebral for you. Besides myself, I’m sure there’s other Grease Spotters here who have been through way corps training and can easily explain the tale of two wierwilles to you – there’s the one who taught the PFAL class - and then there’s the one who lived the life of a predator’s dream…it’s good to be the king. Grease Spotters can find this book explained to Mike on another thread > my post Friday Jan. 7th 2022 Plagiarism on the road to success Mike, did you notice the part in bold red? Do you know what that reminds me of? Jesus’ words in Matthew 15:8 , These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Mike, get your head out of wierwille’s a$$ ! Schmooze = talk with someone in a lively and friendly way, typically in order to impress or manipulate them...Mike, you ought to be ashamed at your poor choice of words. Where does it say that in the Bible? heart - ahhh there it is again - if we had a trusting and willing heart. Do you mean a trusting and will heart like Kristen had toward wierwille? You can't mean wierwille had a willing heart to obey the Word of God. He was a repeat offender sexual predator. He was an unabashed plagiarist. He talked the walk ("they honor me with their lips") but he didn't walk the talk ("but their hearts are far from me") Your references about God not giving us something bad are the exact same references wierwille used in RTHST, by which he asserted believers do not have to worry about receiving a counterfeit. That’s ironic. wierwille knew how to fake tongues and in PFAL he encourages students to disengage their mind and use the body parts of speech mechanics to speak gibberish. So, you must mean you interpret Jesus’ words as a reference to SIT because wierwille SAID SO. You know nothing except what was up wierwille's a$$.

Like so many of victor's pithy stories, the need/want fable doesn't deliver the lesson desired or perceived. MOREOVER, it makes little sense to clear minds upon honest, unbiased examination. Victor's general unpreparedness, histrionics and propensity for word salad are to blame. Combine all this with his arrogant expectation of a dull-minded, captive, committed and exhausted audience and you get... well, you know... I have already provided an accurate and honest examination of the transcript from Mike. It really should be settled, but in case it's not, here's a brief summary: Parallel fits, as I've explained. Victor mimed balance on set, but balance doesn't work in the fable as told. A need for shelter far, FAR outweighs a whimsical, materialistic want for red drapes. That scale is devilishly unbalanced. HOWEVER, drapes and shelter... seeeee?? Parallel. Lined up. It just fits. Geometry! And probability. Statistics. You're more likely to get the drapes you want while in the process of fulfilling the need for shelter because the need and want go together like snowballs and Pete. Likewise, if you need transportation, you should line up your want for a car with that need. Bingo! Isn't that wonderful? That there is how you work a word!

You can go all the way back to the very early days of GSC (20 years ago) and see people discussing this exact error. But, hey, I guess some people just weren't paying attention.

Yet 50 years later and you still can't explain what it means but have to provide 10 paragraphs of word salad and some twisted scriptures to try and make it fit...

142. PFAL = landlords No PFAL means you don’t need to have a landlord if you don’t want one.

(I lost a post previously, so I didn't want to lose everything in one post again.) I think vpw DID have regrets, but they weren't the type of regrets a mature leader would have. He expressed regret about losing his eye- because it was a visible reminder of his failings. He said privately to lcm that what bothered him was that, in the OT, a priest with a blemish was no longer able to serve in the temple. Taken from his perspective, it was a rather visible reminder that his "believing" doctrine failed to heal him. He'd set forth that he was some great one, with "Super-Believing", so that twi'ers connected him with The Great Power of God. vpw had made a point of that, often. So, when he really needed it, it failed him because his doctrine was flawed. One doesn't alter reality simply through "believing." God Almighty alters reality when He wishes, and we pray and ASK for any alterations we want. But in vpw's system, vpw was supposed to be able to believe, and the healing would happen miraculously- like in his claim about instant healings off backs of trains. (If that had been real, this one would have been a cinch!) A lot of the Word-Faith preachers have problems with that- their system says they can "believe" and all kinds of healing will result. However, they die at young ages, and wear glasses, and have other visible signs of flawed health. If I could just concentrate and my body would conform to my mental picture, I would definitely be in excellent health, and I probably would look good enough to do movies, or at least TV. For that matter, I'd live a longer life with excellent health, and my nearest and dearest would do well similarly- hey, concentrate and the spouse's cold goes away? (Etc.) When it comes to his final hours, I think he really DID buy into the idea that he could concentrate and miraculously heal. I think he was searching his mind for what he was missing. Rather than accept his doctrine was flawed, he put the blame on himself and on others, as you said. With cgeer, he blamed everybody by name. In his last day, he tried to think of how he'd fallen short of being able to super-believe by displeasing God somehow. In between all the rapes, druggings, simony, plagiarism, and so on, he was unable to identify ANYTHING that would displease God. I think that's true, and in his mind, all of those were excusable and all right with God. After all, he thought ORGIES were OK with God, just not OK with people. So, I think his regret was that he had failed to Super-Believe, and that he said so. I think people mistook that for something a lot more profound. He "knew himself to be" Super-Believer, who alters reality at a thought. He failed at that and died. He wished he had believed stronger. I don't think he regretted living a less moral life because he didn't even recognize it on his DEATHBED.

When I first heard it was a few years ago. One poster said they were friends with someone who had lived on-grounds at the time and was one of the last few people to see vpw alive. That person told about how vpw was stressing himself in his final hours, trying to figure that one out. If I was depicting a fraud Christian leader who was at Death's Door (whether myself or someone else), I'd expect the person to approach death with a lot more peace in themself, and prayers for those outliving them. "My conscience is bothering me" for someone who normally went around sinning is an odd choice. "My conscience is clear and I'm ready to face my God now or next in my perception" is what I'd expect to see. It's also how Pope John Paul II seemed to face death. From eyewitness accounts, it looked like he was praying for the Catholics as a whole right when he died. (My interpretation of the description; your mileage may vary.) Perhaps, from the perspective of a more innocent person, vpw's comments may sound a lot more innocent. Later comments certainly did- blaming everyone around him for "helping kill" him with insufficient believing, "he died of a broken heart", bs like that. He certainly fed a line of bull cookies like that to geer- who wrote it down and confronted the bot not long after vpw died. But, at the same time, it's also possible to see the other comments as coming from someone who had numbed his own conscience, who only suspect he'd made some kind of mistake and displeased God because he wasn't getting miraculous healing, not because he knew what behavior would displease God and avoided all of it as best he knew how.