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Recently I was reading in a worship magazine where retreats where people were isolated from the world for a time (like 3 days), and involved emotional intensity, were useful for identifying people with sociopathic tendencies and weeding them out. It appears to me that at the higher level of involvement in TWI, the higher the incidence of control freaks, narcissists, and sociopaths. Is it possible that the same strategy was used in TWI to identify those people to put them in high places?

Warning! PFAL is only for those who want a truly screwed up life. Do not take if you are perfectly normal and wish to stay that way. Some users may experience side effects such as numbing of the brain, loss of mental awareness, sudden moving to small hick towns with no money and no job. In rare cases users may experience sever side effects. Seek help immediately if you experience a sudden loss of ethics, become prone toward using other people, or become manipulative. These conditions may last beyond TWI involvement.

I was a kid in the corps and kinda remember (a long time ago) when corps had to hitchhike accross the county in 48 hours, with only $50 - then begin the LEAD training. Does anyone remember that? I know they stopped the hitchhiking part when it started to get dangerous, but kept the other part. What does LEAD stand for? I also can't remember the final test - was it being in the wilderness for 24 or 48 hours with no supplies? thanks!

That's the one thing I really remember during the PFAL class and from reading the "collaterals" - don't take his word for it. Clearly, clearly it was a warning. I didn't take his word for anything (but really saw no real straying from his basic premise of scriptural interpretation beyond the tithe and how he thought the law of believing worked), and I think that's what "saved" me from going down the rabbit hole and spared me much of the anguish of finding out he was a fake. I always saw him as a fallen human and was amazed when people acted as though he could do no wrong. I wondered out loud to my husband one time how people would deal with VPW's inevitable death and what would happen to TWI. Would people finally get that he wasn't all that special? Then given his cause of death, that his ability to "manifest" his core beliefs didn't happen, (I get the answer to that - to blame the "unbelieving" followers as a means of deflecting the reality) It still didn't sink in until the power struggle between LCM, JAL, and CG for control (in retrospect, I do consider JAL's letters to be an attempt to persuade TWI's members to defect) that VPW might be the root cause of TWI's "issues". Anyway, no one who read the materials can't say they weren't warned about taking VPW's word for anything. Keith has said he was told personally, and it's in writing in the collaterals. Why did you (who followed him down the rabbit hole into WoWland, Corpse, Lightbearers, and FL) not heed his warning?

I think Wisconsin tried something like that with attendance not discipline issues. Parents with chronically absent children were somehow fined/sued/neutered - I can't quite remember and certainly can't remember how successful it was.

There have always been troublemakers in school, but when I was growing up, they usually got straightened out pretty quickly. Of course, I spent several years in Catholic schools. But even at the pulic high school I attended, children were respectful. If a teacher had to discipline you (in ANY way), your parents ALSO disciplined you. Frankly, I think the only recourse teachers have these days (and I haven't heard about anyone trying it, but it makes sense to me) would be to sue the parents of unruly children, saying that the children provide a hostile work environment. Better a pre-emptive strike like that than to have some parent sue because the teacher sent the kid to detention and "lowered his self-esteem." <_< George

Momentus

geisha779.......yes, the original post on this thread has a SMUGNESS to it. For anyone who follows GS regularly.....this poster has stated this "what the he11 were you WOW's and Corps amd FellowLaborers thinking" question MANY TIMES in various forms. Hence, my post above addresses two points. YET........this poster went and spend years in CES, where elitism reigns supreme.

Didn't Hitler/Stalin etc. have a nose for loyalty? Last one to salute the Furer? Maybe a lack of enthusiasm? Not jumping at an opportunity to SIT and manifest? hhmmmm. . .

Does this shi+ really work, dang ! I want my $50 grand back please and thank you. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,536175,00.html?mrp The young lady hasn't been able to secure employment since she received her degree and it doesn't specify enough for me but it sounds like perhaps the institution from which she graduated offers employment assistance. A few thoughts come to my punkin. The school from which I got my degree in Human Service also offers employment assistance, for life, in fact. However the former student has to do a few things him/herself. Stuff like turn nothing down that the Career Assistance Office suggests; minimally don't say anything resembling "ewww, I don't like that one" or flat not show up for the interview. Can I really call my school's office and say, as a potential new employee, something silly like "can you find me the 150,000 a year job with a company car, stupidly wonderful expense account, full benefits and oh, I want the bosses office, otherwise, don't even tell me about the damn thing". Oh wait, if they don't comply, I'll sue em, yeah, that's what I'll do. Like any business, there is going to be a feel for which clients, customers, contacts and/or college grad(s) are really going to utilize the services offered and I'm sure if the nice lady at Baker College understood that I want a job but might not really show up, she'll be less willing to assist me, less willing to risk her reputation with the local employers she's established a relationship with and for cryin' out loud, I can't sue her or the college when I'm not a good fit for the employment or they hire someone who is more experienced, better qualified or nails the interview in ways that assures the HR department of that good fit. We have become much too litigious in our society, if ya ask me and I realize you did not.

Do you ever think about a line from a class and find yourself chuckling about it? Here's a classic from the advanced class: KEYS TO WALKING IN THE SPIRIT 1. To receive revelation, you must first become meek. (Guess that kinda sums it up for Old Doc. )

I found this news item to be moderately encouraging (but then, I would): http://ncseweb.org/news/2009/07/dinosaur-adventure-land-to-be-seized-004963 Kent Hovind, who some would say makes the Scopes Trial prosecutors look enlightened by comparison, gets his due. Isn't this the natural outcome of taking the Bible as LITERAL instead of LITERATURE? I think so...

Correct, we were warned.... When I took the class they encouraged us to get a concordance and look things up.....so I did. I had a problem with what the class was saying about the word "receive". When I took the concordance and showed them and said, what is being taught is not correct look at the concordance. They said to me, Well, you have not researched the word like VP has. He has gone back to the originals and yada yada yada....What do you say to that? I could say nothing and I concluded that no matter what a resource says, if it didn't agree with what was being taught, it was wrong and the teaching was right. Right then, I decided I didn't know anything about the bible and He knew it all. A mistake I will never make again!

Good points Tzaia, The thing about the adequate warning (supposedly IMO) is that when such a thing came from a man who, IMO, had huge problems with sociopathic tendencies and narcissism is that I'm not 100% certain where he was coming from. But worthwhile possibilities include IMO: (and there certainly can be others) The warning was given by someone who was fooling themselves first and formost... The warning was given as a ploy, for instance from then on he could play the, "It's your problem, you shoulda fought for it card." It was given as a blatant manipulation by a complete con artist in order to draw in sincere but carefully held impotent (as far as ministry politics goes) folks. After all, such sincere folks were genuine and had an impact on the populace when they shared their hearts for God's Word and God's people. It was only given as a selling point in order to hide the blatant sexual and mental abuse that top leadership carried out. It was given out as bait to draw in folks who wouldn't be likely to back down because they were completely sold out on the "IDEA" of the integrity of God's Word and Wierwille, aka the teacher. ____________________________ At any rate it seems TWI and the things they taught from the bible ended up being diametrically opposed to each other.

GOOD ANSWER. That is putting it nicely! :o

The base of our connection was Biblical. There we were all of us looking for answers on life or what have you and we ended up in The Way International! For some of us we just took the "class" for others we went way out on a limb(no pun intended) Some of us got over it in a minute and others day by day,year by year ..others never made it and some died fighting their demons. I want people to understand how something so "seemingly good" turned so destructive and waste away so many peoples lives. Still to this day I cherish some of the friendships but.... hate the fact that it was based on a sales pitch for TWI and Dr. Fat Rats Lies. Like wide eyed wonder children we went and followed the pied piper...that I still care about the rescue of others trapped in the line of fire is why in part I come to this site. What are you doing here.

I was assigned to be Mrs. W's escort at Word in Business two consecutive years. For five days, from 7am-10pm my responsibilities included a wide-range of demanding vigilance [15-hours a day]. This corps-assigned work responsibility required extreme patience, protocol, precision and persistence......with very little personal time throughout the week. When she took a bathroom break....I needed to take a bathroom break (so as NOT to expect her to wait for me). It was a grueling week of work.......both years at WIB. Yes, Mrs. W usually gets a free pass around GS......but from someone who spent, at least, 10 full days with her, (and staying in her home a time or two) she soaked in the spotlight just like her hubby. On so many occasions, the "spiritual protocol" overwhelmed the common sense of the moment. She enjoyed people.....yes. But she ALSO enjoyed the spotlight as "twi's first lady." On a couple of occasions, my actions were not as responsive to her liking......and her glares were cold and riveting. She held her own in wielding "power" and Don Wierwille was close by to watch my servitude as well. And......the "gift table" in her WIB suite was loaded with fine items (both years).

Anyone know what happened to Fred or Vivian McCulloch. I was with them i Michigam in the early 70's before they went to headquarters. Just wondered what ever happen to them and there kids.

yeah...probably the best he can do on a scale of 1 to 7...using a spectrum of faith development...i can't help but give the guy a 2.5 which seems around average for religious leaders today (i give vpw a 1.5) i can only hope that perhaps our global collapse will stimulate some sort of development in our next generation of religious leaders and maybe even lift the average to at least a 4 or 5...and get all the childlike adults out of positions of responsibility and authority sad how it takes such desolation and loss to shake us out of such a rut