Paradiseden

Are most people still in agreement that it was not God's will for Paul to go to Jerusalem?

I met Kris in 1976 in Bloomington, Indiana. Two of my very close friends had taken PFAL and one was out WOW and the other one moved to Bloomington for school and to convince me to take PFAL. One afternoon, my friend convinced me to attend a bible meeting at the Indiana Memorial Union and I reluctantly agreed to go. The girl who was teaching that day was Kris. Until that time, I really had not seen anyone teach the Bible with knowledge and enthusiasm like she did. The teaching that day in the fall of 1976 was on Overcoming Fear. I had one question after she finished her teaching....."If I take this class called PFAL will I be able to teach the Bible......like her?" It was an exciting time to be involved in The Way in Bloomington Indiana in 1976. Kris was a major reason it was like that(she was the branch coordinator). The next year she left Bloomington,Indiana and entered the Way Corps. I would like to say ....from personal experience....there are MANY people including me, that know the Bible better because of her. I have read her book about some of the unfortunate things that happened to her in The Way. However, whenever I think of her, I remember her love for God, her love for others, her smiling face, and the wonderful times we and other saints including (Sylvia, Nan, Peggy, Stu, Rudy, Tim, Sandi, Joan, Beth, Karen, Nick, Jim, Tina, Renee, Bill, Liz, David and more)had that 1976 year. God bless you Kris.....your have inspired many others including me! Gary

Hi I decided to take the time and answer a couple of questions on this forum that I believe I can help answer. I have been connected to STF for a long time, served on the Finance Committee and been a volunteer at some events and conferences. Concerning the question from Whatsgoingon "Who are the Council of Elders?" or as some refer to as the "14." This summer, fourteen long time supporters of STF/CES, many have been around for more than 15 years, heard that John Lynn had been fired. Because they were concerned there was going to be another possible split in CES/STF, they formed what was later referred to as the "Council of Elders" in an attempt to keep this split from happening. After many conference calls and a discussion with the Board of Directors of STF and JAL, it became clear we were not going to be able to keep this split from happening. The Board of Directors of STF did not like it that we had formed this council, and as a result, our opportunity to help was greatly discouraged. Concerning Don't Worry Be Happy......I will try to answer your questions since you mentioned me by name. 1) "Why do you trust Schoenheits spiritual and intellectual judgement so strongly?" This question covers a wide area of topics. Let me answer that question with one biblical scripture although I could provide others: 1Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast to that which is good." I look at most biblical teaching and "spiritual and intellectual judgement" from this perspective. In CES/STF, managing my business and living my life, this is a very good biblical principle to follow. There are teachings in STF I do not agree with (for example: some use of personal prophecy) as there were teachings in the Way I did not agree with. However,as an example, John Schoenheit's book on "The Christian's Hope" is fabulous and The Way's teaching on the mystery/sacred secret was incredible and changed my life. 2)"Do you believe what the "ministry" he's president of teaches and practices?" I believe I answered that question with my answer above. 3)"Are you members?" I am a "member" of the One Body, the Body of Christ with Jesus Christ as the head talked about in I Corinthians 12:12-27. Jesus Christ said "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." (Matthew 18:20 KJV). 4)"Are his (John Schoenheit) spiritual and intellectual judgements among the "qualities" you admire?" Some I admire and some I don't. I am sure some people have those same thoughts and/or opinions about me. And before you ask me, there isn't any reason to elaborate further than that (laughing....as my wife could provide extensive detail). 5)"Are his spiritual and intellectual judgements among a few of the reasons why he is the current president of CES?" I would hope that any president of any Christian organization would have spiritual and intellectual reasons why they are in a position of influence and giving guidance to any Christian organization. 6)"Maybe you could respond on one of your next "fly by" missions......" Don't Worry Be Happy......that comment gave me a good laugh and I enjoy your sense of humor and because you HAVE a sense of humor, I decided to respond to your questions. That was great and it made me smile and laugh, so thanks for that! Gary Smith

CES/STF purchased a property in Martinsville and the main office will be there instead of Indianapolis. This office will be closer to the camp in Bloomington.

I recently celebrated by 20th year out. When do I get my award?

I do not believe that once a Christian is born again (Romans 10:9-10) that they can be possessed by an evil spirit. I believe they can be tempted and influenced to commit sin, but I do not believe they can be possessed. Do you know of any scripture that would indicate that I am wrong. Many scriptures come to mind that I believe support my thinking that a born again Christian cannot be possessed, for instance....we were bought with a price (Jesus Christ dies for us) and other scripture like 1 John 4:4 "...and have overcome THEM because greater is he that is IN YOU than he that is in the world." I am interested in knowing of any scripture on either side of this topic.

I have a question concerning the Trinity. If the trinitarian doctrine is correct, why are there only two thrones? Revelation 22:1 "And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb." Revelation 22:3. "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him." If the trinitarian doctrine is correct, why is there no throne for the Holy Spirit?

I received "Losing The Way" from Amazon yesterday and finished reading it today. Yes, it is that good. I would highly recommend it to any person who has been in The Way or who is still in The Way. Many of us will be able to relate to the various "pressures" that went along with being part of "The Way." For instance, like trying to skip a Way meeting or fellowship because you had something important to do. This book is entertaining, interesting, sad and healing. Although she used different names for the various peope in the book, anyone who was in the Way during the mid 1970's to the early 1980's will easily recognize many of the people. For example, corps coordinator "Roy Worthington." Reading this book was special for me, because I personally knew Kris. At Indiana University, she was the branch coordinator and class coordinator when I sat through the PFAL class for the first time. During that year, she was responsible for many people getting to know God better. I remember being amazed at her enthusiasm and confidence concerning God and the Bible. At my first twig in the Memorial Union she taught about David (1 Samuel 17). I had one question to ask my friend, who had been relentless in trying to convince me to be part of PFAL class, "If I take this class will I be able to teach the Bible like her?" Thanks for writing this book Kris. I am sure it will help many others.

Every few months there are University of Life classes/tapes for sale on eBay. Go to eBay.com and type in "wierwille" in the "window" and all of the Way materials currently for sale will be displayed. If you check there every week over time, you will be able to purchase any University of Life class you want.

I fasted in TWI and I have been doing occasional fasting for over 30 years. It is of great value to a your health as long as you do not get crazy about it and do stupid things (like fast and then go eat a pizza). I have done a water only fast, juice fast, herbal tea fast or a combination. I did the colon cleanse once when in the Way and would never do it again. My favorite fast is herbal tea and maybe a little fruit juice. Most of the time I fast between one and ten days depending on how I feel. The longest fast I have been on was for 18 days (mainly water and juice). Usually you will average losing one pound per day (don't worry, you will gain it back when you start eating again) and the second and third days are the hardest. NOTE: Although I have been on a few longer fasts, I do not recommend anyone doing a fast for more than 3 days unless it is supervised. Remember, if your going to fast be smart about it. There are two different thoughts on taking an enema or not taking an enema when fasting. After fasting for one day your body "shuts down" and usually you will not need a bowel movement until you end the fast and start eating again. Some people recommend an enema every day, I do not. You will have to read up on the subject and decide for yourself or talk to a professional. Usually by the second day after ending a fast and eating, your bowels will start working again. You can cure yourself of many ailments by smart, intelligent fasting. Before you fast read a couple of books about it or go online and visit a few websites that talk about fasting (ie: google it). Go see a person/doctor that knows about fasting to get more information. When fasting, most of the time you are not going to feel that great because your body is working to remove toxins from your body. DRINK LOTS OF WATER throughout the entire fast. Some of the time you will have a dull annoying headache and that is normal. However, if you get a hard, pounding headache (except the first day because that one is usually related to no caffeine) you should break the fast immediately and eat a salad and start the fast another time. People who drink coffee on a regular basis will have a very challenging time the first two days of the fast. Once the caffeine has been removed from your body it will get easier. It did take me about one year to finally fast one complete day. I would start and then get hungry and go eat or my friends would talk me out of it or I would get scared and think I was harming my body. Fasting is a remarkable remedy for a variety of health issues. When you give your system ( body) a rest from eating, your bodies natural reaction is to go to work getting rid of toxins out of your body. Also, you are giving many organs and glands in your body a rest and they will work better after a fast. Your sex drive does diminsh when ON a fast. But, believe me, when you start eating again it will come back better than before and with a more powerful orgasm (smile). Also, fasting can help strengthen your immune system. Don't be surprised if you have bad breath or body odor when on a fast. Brush your teeth/tongue, drink more water and take a shower. Always break a fast with natural wholesome food. My favorite is a green salad. When you start eating again DO NOT OVEREAT otherwise you will lose a lot of the benefit of the fast. Ease into eating again slowly. Periodic fasting along with exercise and eating wholesome foods will add many years to your life. I am in my 50's and still play basketball with guys in their 20's and 30's and I give the majority of the credit to fasting. Fasting helps keep your arteries clean and your mind sharp. I have had to go to the doctor very few times over the past 30 years and most of those were for sprained ankles from running or playing basketball. My point is....fasting is beneficial to your health. Many of your friends will try to discourage you from fasting. Some people will tell you your harming body, your losing muscle mass, your going to an early grave blah blah blah blah blah....I have heard people tell me every reason why I should not fast. I have been on more than 50 fasts. The more you fast the more confidence you will have in fasting. Usually I do not tell anyone I am fasting because most people will only offer discouragement because they know nothing about it. I fast mainly for the physical benefits, however anyone who has read the Bible knows there are huge spiritual benefits to fasting. God bless you.

Although I do not post that often, when I saw the title of this thread I had to make a few comments. I have known John for many years and served on staff at several events that he has been involved in. He is a Christian of immense talent and has a genuine love for people. In addition, he is extremely knowledgeable about the Bible and can teach. As for working at several events, I never thought that he had some other agenda besides doing his best to communicate God's love to others and teach the Bible. I certainly CANNOT say that about some other ministers, especially a few that were in the Way. As a Christian minister, he engages people in conversation and appears to be really interested in them. He is a kind person, not abrasive or arrogrant in his manner of conversation and does not come across as thinking he is better than another Christian. John exhibits many of the qualities you would want a Christian minister to have if he was the leader of your Christian organization. And having these qualities in his life are a few of the reasons why he is the current President of CES (Spirit and Truth).

dmiller....yes it is the same Kris Skedgell that was in Bloomington Indiana. Kris was in Bloomington for one year in 1976-1977 as the branch coordinator. I was in the first PFAL class that year in October 1976. In the summer of 1977, she left to enter the eighth Way Corps. Dean and Laura Ellenwood (Dean was in Joyful Noise) arrived in Bloomington for the 1977-1978 a year before Charlie and Tracy Preston (who came to Bloomington when Dean and Laura returned to Joyful Noise). A few thoughts on Kris. I knew about the Way in Fort Wayne, Indiana as two of my close friends had taken the PFAL class. I left Fort Wayne to attend college at Indiana University in August 1976. One of my friends went WOW and the other came to Indiana University to go to school. My friend convinced me to attend a bible meeting (twig) at IU Memorial Union and the person teaching that September day was Kris Skedgell. When the twig fellowship was finished and they were talking about the PFAL class, I had one question....If I take this class will I be able to teach the Bible.....like her! She was a wonderful teacher and hearing her teach that day was inspiring and I wanted the enthusiasm, excitement for God, Jesus Christ, and the Bible that she had. Kris was only in Bloomington one year, and in addition to attending classes at Indiana University, she was a dynamic branch coordinator. The reason she was dynamic is because she loved people and REALLY cared about them. Also, she coordinated a woman's Way Home in Bloomington that year. Several PFAL classes ran that year and other classes including Christian Family and Sex, Renewed Mind, and The Way Tree. The things I most remember about Kris was her love for God, her warm, pretty smile and what she taught me about God by her example. Although I have not seen or talked with Kris in over 25 years, I still remember that beautiful girl who inspired me to teach the Bible and learn more about it.

Having been raised Catholic, I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church. Just because an organization or any organization for that matter, does good works, that does not excuse the huge doctrinal error they support through their deliberate distortion of the scriptures. For instance: 1) Confession of sin through a priest in order to have your sins forgiven. 2) Priest and nuns cannot marry. Deliberate hiding of sexual misconduct of priests with young children for years (By the way, what activity of a religious organization could be worse than the sexual abuse of children or for that matter, included in the definition of a cult). 3) Saint and statute worship 4) That what the pope says can be infallible (meaning without error). I thought the Bible says Jesus Christ is the only perfect man? 5) Mortal and venial sins 6) Limbo and Purgatory 7) Praying to Mary and praying the rosary 8) Mary assumed into heaven just like Jesus Christ 9) Holy water and communion ( that is, that they turn it into the ACTUAL body and blood of Jesus Christ). 10) If you die without going to church on Sunday it is a mortal sin and you are going to hell. 11) I know of someone recently who was married for several years and got his marriage ANNULED because he wanted to marry someone else and having a marriage annuled is ok but divorce is not. Of course, it did not hurt in convincing the local Bishop or whoever was responsible because he donated a lot of money to the church. When I mentioned these beliefs that could not be proven with bible scripture to my grandmother she said " I am a good Catholic, I DO NOT CARE THAT IT IS NOT IN THE BIBLE, I believe what the Catholic Church teaches." I would like any present Catholics reading this to explain how the "good works" the Catholics presently do somehow makes up for not being accountable to God to change their present beliefs to line up with what the Bible actually says. And to admit that the millions of murders (ie: the Crusades, this is not speculation but historical fact) that they were responsible for were wrong and NOT JUSTIFIED BECAUSE OF THE TIME PERIOD THEY WERE DONE. We talk about various organizations being cults, including the Way. The truth is, the Catholic Church is by far the largest cult in the world and it has held the number one position for centuries. Just because someone does good works they do not get saved (Ephesians 2:8-10) and just because an organization does good works, any organization including the Catholic Church, does not mean that organization is not a cult.

The lawsuit has not been withdrawn and is still going on. Not much is happening.

In my opinion, if any of these actions by Mark Graeser go to a trial, there isn't any way he wins. Deframation of character? How so? That will be a really interesting presentation, especally since he was the President of CES. Graeser has a lot more to lose by this going to trial then anyone he is suing and from a biblical point, he is flat out wrong.

Tony and Ruth Kliewer are two of the most wonderful christians I have ever met. I lived with them for nearly a year in Fort Wayne, Indiana in 1980-1981. When the Way purchased the Rome City (Indiana campus) location, they made a large donation that helped make that purchase possible. Unfortunately, I have not seen them in over 20 years. However, if I was to meet them again today, I am sure it would be like I saw them yesterday and it would not matter that they are in the Way and I have been "out" for nearly 20 years. They were that special and I will always love them.

I have copies of older Way Magazines. Some months I have duplicate copies. What years and months or what topics are you looking for information? If you let me know what month or months you are looking for, I may have some copies I can give you.

Ductape It is apparent from your last post that ON THIS TOPIC you do not have any accurate information to base your comments regarding the current crisis at CES. Because someone did something a certain way 20 + years ago, that means they would do the same thing now or that it is ok to do that now? Please, wrong is wrong, and most of the time it is not hard to tell the difference. I do have accurate information on the current "facts" and can add further support to Billy D and his comments, which are accurate.

The letters are authentic because I received a copy when she sent them out. You can trust what Jeff USA RET, Billy D and Sirvaliant have said. They have been knowledgeable of CES and the office for years from working there. I know them all to be honorable people and I would trust their word.

Pacific West Fellowship was started by Steve Sann (former limb leader of Indiana and the youngest limb leader in Way history at age 24 if I remember correctly) in California. I believe Pacific West Fellowship ended when Steve Sann moved to Montana in the early 1990's.

dmiller.....I was in Bloomington in 1976 and those tapes were still around then. Speaking of Kris Skeg. I have tried to locate her for years. She was the branch coordinator in Bloomington in 1976 and a wonderful person. Other saints there during that time include S. Morrison, G. Barnes, D. Mullen, S. Singleton, Tim (cannot remember his last name but he was and amazing person for being bold at witnessing) Nan, Rudi, S. Black, G. Smith, P. Farrell, R. Bridgewaters (another saint amazingly bold at witnessing) T. Kelso, S Hesley, K. Heatly, Joan, Beth, Nick, Karen, Liz, Irma, Terry and many others including the people you mentioned. I know the tapes were still there in 1977 when Dean and Laura E. from Joyful Noise became the branch coordinators and K. Skeg. went into the Corps. The following year, C. Preston became the branch coordinator and Dean E. returned to Joyful Noise. It would not surprise me if those tapes are not somewhere in Bloomington today. I know several people still living there and if I track them (tapes) down I will let you know. Those years 1973-1978 was an amazing time in Bloomington Indiana and Word was hot!!!! People were getting born again. We were young and living the Word was fun. It was a fun time to be in the Way. It is a good memory/reminder for me......I can still have that enthusiasm for the Word of God today. It is all a matter of how I think about it and make day by day decisions by looking at the big picture namely that.... 1 Thess 4:13-18 is true (....comfort one another with these words) and if I make my decisions remembering that truth everthing will be ok. Inspite of my weakness and sin, Jesus Christ is coming back and Revelation 21:1-5 is going to happen in the future. Well......now that I have given myself a little motivational reminder...

Hi. I have the first 3 Joyful Noise albums and they have never been played. I would be willing to send them to Ted or anyone else who could make Cd's that would bless many people. ebay auctions....search... wierwille. The Belizean BRC has produced many of the old Way publications and Way music. There are many books up for auction right now. Every so often new Cd's of old Way music comes up on the auction.

I read the book and thought it was excellent. It is especially interesting because of the history it gives of the early years. I highly recommend it for anyone that was involved with the Way.

I was in PFAL during the fall of 1976. Went WOW three times. Would I do it again? No, to going WOW. Yes, to taking the PFAL class.

Top Tow Tip Top Tow Quick Tow Also, if possible avoid using your name as the business. For instance, Cooper Towing. When it comes time to sell the business, it is more difficult to get people to buy/pay money for your business name if you name the business after your family name.