newlife

Just wanted to add this...as Ex brought to mind something that happened to me. It wasn't just VP that put into practice the, "I'll help you overcome your sexual abuse by directing you to have sex." I was also told that by a corps person who directed me to go have sex with someone, anyone, to get over my abuse problem. And I did. And she also directed me to go to an "adult" store, where she actually took and showed me different items that could be used sexually, had me view 5 minute clips in the back room. It totally freaked me out, but she was leadership. And I did follow through with all of her requests as she told me to. All of this and other people's experience is very sad, but true. And you know who I feel for deeply....His wife, Mrs. W...It gripped my heart to read the posts about her sobbing and sobbing. She lived with the man for all those years. She knew him better than anyone else...and she said he was a very mean man. What must of she went through all those years...trying to be the example for everyone, a woman of God...and carrying this burden within...Terrible, just Terrible.

The organized religious structures/denominations definitely require a seminary experience. And that's fine. I was only pointing out that all the ordained people of God did not necessarily go to a seminary. But you can find ordained people in both realms.... you can find people who go to seminary and get ordained but God didn't call them at all. And you can find many who are called of God and get ordained from a seminary. You can find people who didn't go to seminary who are ordained by whoever and start their own thing and God didn't call them at all. And you can find people who didn't go to seminary are ordained and have very fruitful ministries. And for me, it's the fruit of what they do.....which is a very good indicator. My point was that not every person ordained goes through seminary, but obviously many do. And God knows who is called and who is not..... That's a fair assessment I believe.

Please understand ...this is not in defense of anyone.... I've been "out and about" different churches, groups etc....there are tons of people who profess ordination who never went to a seminary, college etc. And why? I asked a couple of my friends who claim ordination, and who also have ordained others...and her reply was.......The book of Acts...see anyone there going to seminary or college?? She and her husband run a place for homeless people...and it is a huge success, a huge blessing, and has turned this town into a giving town. I have no doubt that their ordination is from God. That's where I think it has to come from is God....not man. Just my 2 cents worth and it's probably worth what you paid for it!!!!!!

That's good Waysider.....It's gotta come out......Thank God! Sometimes you just want it back and want it to be like it was...you really push it.....That doesn't work I know. Let it Flow!!! Thanks!!

Thanks sooooo much for your encouragement. I kind of feel stuck where I am.....thank-you for your suggestions.

This is a very interesting thread for me....thank-you for all the posts. Since I wasn't In the "ring" of JN or Any other of the great musical groups....I just want to say, I do not know what went on in the organizing and running them. BUT, I do want to say, that I absolutely loved Way productions...JN the most I think. It was because of the music that I heard at a coffeehouse that drew me into the ministry. I still love the music! Talented musicians with hearts for God..... Having said that now, I will share my personal experience with music. I was a musician when I came into the ministry....playing guitar, writing songs. I hadn't been around for like 6-8 months and the limb leader told me I was to "put down" the music and play no more because I needed to have the word first in my life before the music. For three years I did no music at all. On my wow year, The limb leader asked if I would play at a state get together and I said, No I can't and told him why I couldn't. He then said, well, I think it's ok that you do now. So I did. And I did play at fellowships after that occasionally and wrote a few songs, but I lost the passion I had for the music like I did before. Eventually, I just didn't play much at all. After leaving the ministry, I SO LONGED AND WANTED my passion back for music...I had great and I do mean great difficulty in trying to revive that. It took someone who was a musician, to basically, make me play with her and continue to play. It took a year or so before, I felt like I was back to where I had been with my love for music. I've played with two christian bands, but felt neither was something I wanted to do....I do write songs now and do a lot of "Living room" playing.....though it's dropped off some since I am not playing in bands. I think it's difficult for musicians to "find their place" in the music realm after leaving...cause I, for one, was so used to the music being a "certain" way, sounding a certain way, carrying a certain message. Thanks for letting me share!

GREAT QUESTION-----GREAT POST!!!! Being in a Recovery group after being in TWI for 13 years.....My new found purpose is to be of service to others, not to "Move the Word". It's a life changing concept....to help others and I might add the most fulfilling purpose I have had.

I'm appalled that people were drugged and then brought back to the back of the coach for pleasure.....I didn't know about this at all.

WHO CARES??

How great is that? Thanks for your creativity! It was awesome!

George and Ca Dreaming......Good to hear you both on this thread. I know I have probably met you both. In 75 I took the class in Bloomington.......and knew all the people you talked about. Brought back the memories. It was a great time! People were fun, they were free, leadership was loving.....I wouldn't have stuck around if it had been the way it was in the end. But it sure changed and went down hill. I guess like a book says, "It was the best of times, and the worst of times" which pretty much describes my experiences. The best of the times....I'll always look back on and love the people I knew with a special place in my heart during the mid 70's, to late 70's. Just hearing some of their names brings back this longing of, "Wish I could see them again" feeling. Music was awesome with a coffeehouse almost weekly and night owls. It was a wonderful time in my life. I've not ever had such a great experience with people since I left TWI than I did then. It was healing to my life and it really needed healing. But, I don't know when exactly it started changing, but it did. Leadership became dominant and controlling...and you all know the rest of the story....."The worst of times" for me. But those first 5 years or so......they were great and I do thank God for them and for the people I was around. I'll never forget them.......

Bottom line---It was all about "us". No matter what was going on in the universe, it was all about "us"----- We were the center of it..........how egotistic and selfish is that???

Hey---Hppy Birthday Paw!!!! Hope your day is a great one that includes the people that are closest to you and that you enjoy it to the hilt!!!! Let the fireworks begin!!!!!

What Gnostics????

Still, Today, I find that I have not really discovered and uncovered who I am, what I like, where I want to go, what I want to do in life....... It seems like in TWI we were all the Same......Same talk, same, beliefs, same actions.....and if you weren't you were in trouble. I find that our individuality was completely broken down and discarded. I no longer hung with friends outside of TWI...had none now. My family was held at arm's length, you know they probably have spiritual problems. The music I once liked, now was not fit to be heard. It seems like I was just "shut down". There was no "thinking" that was individulized....we all thought the same thing. I know if you were in TWI, you probably felt the same way as I did. I am trying to discover and uncover who I am, cause it's been buried. And one of the first things I had to learn, but still do not practice, is that it's totally "OK" to try different things, it's ok to join different groups if I want, it's ok to have different interests. It's ok to have hobbies. It's just ok. It's that "getting outside the box" that still is a challenge to me after all these years. How did you get outside your box?????

YES, YES..........I love hearing how God is working in you to be what HE wants you to be and to use what He has given you for the body of Christ and for the hurting.

Well Ex.......I think it is sad......sad to read what God given desires that people had before getting involved with the ministry and how that all got distorted and steered in a whole other direction. Here's the point That I should of made with the original post......(especially for the ones still in.....and hoping they might read this). That whatever was a God given desire before involvement will probably also be the God given desire after involvement. BUT, here's my experience since leaving. The call hasn't changed for my life, but what it "looks' like has. I'm not gonna have a bonfide diploma from a seminary----But guess what? I do function in the way I think I should....pastoring and healing hearts of people. I'll never be a missionary to Africa......But I am a volunteer to an inner city homeless and low poverty center, which has changed my life. SO, basically, I am doing what God has called me to do.....it just looks alittle different. That's the hope for people. God didn't change the call on my life or on others....but it may look a little different than you thought it would look. This took a lot of time to get rid of what I had been taught and get back to where God wanted me to be in the first place. And for that......I am soooo grateful that He is faithful, and He never changes and He is ever present to guide and direct our lives.

OH, ok......thanks for clarifying that. And Yes, I do remember that Musical talent was stated as not being a Gift.....which really stifled my playing music...in fact I was told to put down the music completely, because the Word had to come first. Three years I didn't play until a limb leader ask me to play for a state get together and I told him I couldn't and when I told him why, he said, well, I think you can play now. The emphasis placed on Gift ministries was way out of line. Not that they are important but it made everyone or at least the people I knew to obsess over it.....Did they have one.....etc etc. It was really screwed up I thought.

Sorry, I didn't mean to indicate a narrowness in the difinition of "calling".....I was simply telling you My story.....Of course "Calling" can refer to many functions and many positions.......all equally important to the body of Christ. I was just sharing my story that was specific to my life.......and asking you to share yours.... That's all.

I believe that I truly had a genuine call on my life since I was a child. I always wanted to be a pastor and/or missionary. Going to college, I just really got off track of what my plan was and was in search of getting my life back on track with God when the ministry appeared on the scene. What happened to that childhood vision and dream I believe even got more distorted after entering the ministry. I suddenly looked at the "ladder of advancement".........Take foundational, intermediate, advanced, all the other classes, go WOW, Go into the Corps and then maybe become clergy, finally fulfilling the call on my life. Anything short of that would announce failure, condemnation to myself for not making it. The path became very distorted into a "works" and achieving what requirements Man had placed on it. I was deceived into thinking This was God, this was "it"--the Call on my life-- I had to meet the "criteria" so to speak. So when I left the ministry, My perception of the call on my life was distorted and not geniune. In fact, I thought NOW I had a "different" call on my life which I had picked up in the ministry. Would I ever fulfill it now? I began to question myself, and question God Big time. I even got to the point of thinking, well, I must of been wrong about it.....maybe I just "thought" I had a call on my life. But every time when I went back to my childhood and my desires at that time I would be once again convinced that calling had been real. Which brought me to realize I had a counterfeit call in the ministry that I thought was real, but the one I had in my childhood was really the real one. But, it couldn't look like what I thought it looked like in the ministry. Well, Have you had this experience? Or similiar experiences? What did you do? How have you realized the geniune call vs. the counterfeit??? It doesn't take very long to get stuff all mixed up, but it takes a long time to get it all sorted out. Newlife

Think this may be off topic.......But I also was told I would be healed of my sexual abuse by going out and having sex with someone....it didn't matter who........and that I should visit a sex store to get "over it". This was by my Twig Co.........guess what? It didn't work!

Ok You guys, You are flipping me out with this whole thing about Christ in You. We were taught it's God in Christ in You....were we not? Those who believe in the trinity should have no problem with saying God is Spirit, it's Christ in You and it's called Holy spirit. Three in one.... Now, I don't know that I can even wrap my mind around what you guys are talking about.....it's way beyond me. I have to keep it simple. I don't think God made it so difficult that only greek and hebrew scholars get to "know". But, not putting that type of study down at all.....just that God wouldn't exclude everyone else from knowing Him or His word. My 2 cents, which is probably what it's worth and nothing more!!!

Hello All, I am wondering about the teaching I heard, as well, as many of you about the life in the blood. Regarding the birth of Christ.....that the blood in a normal conception comes from the male, but in this case it didn't giving Christ the pure bloodstream......Now when I heard that I actually called a biologist at a university and asked them if that was true....the blood line comes from the male and they said yes. This was all part of the teaching of Jesus Not Being God. But, I just question it's validity biblically......comments? Just as an addition consideration........The Jesus of the church----A devil spirit??? That is what I understood from the teaching of VP....did I really hear that teaching correct???? Thanks All

I would probably be doing the same thing if I was still in......recruiting! Thank God No more green cards! If you don't know the truth about TWI, you are still of the mindset that it's God's chosen ministry. Just wondering, did anyone receive apologies from people? I had one gal who said, was there any way that I harmed or hurt you? I want to apologize for it if I did. Thing was she wasis a wonderful women who never intentionly hurt or harm anyone. The people who did damage to my life....never heard from them! On the other hand, I did track down one person I felt that I had really mistreated and apologized to her for my behavior. It's a long, long, road to travel isn't it??

I definitely was looking for God! I was very clear on one thing.....I did NOT want religion! I thought church was dry and boring....and even though I had a background in church attending (didn't know much about the bible)......I had a sunday school teacher who contradicted what the preacher said one Sunday......And that, as a young person blew my mind when she showed me in the bible he was wrong. When TWI came into my life.....it was exciting and thrilling.....it was something I thought was stable. That at last I found a group that did teach truth! I was elated!!! I remember shortly after I took the class.....I witnessed and got a bunch of people involved. Zeal.....I definitely had it! It was the best thing going that I had ever attended. PLUS.....I am a musician and the music was awesome!!! Not the music you would hear in a church.......The people.....wow....young people who were excited and loving.......and had great zeal also. On the contrary, I drank a lot before TWI and I all but quit when I got involved. I was heavily in debt before TWI and I got out of debt totally, for the first time in my life I was actually happy. I had never felt such acceptance and love before in my life. ZEAL? Why wouldn't you have zeal if you thought all these things were true??? And I did. I didn't know the real truth about it all. I just knew how I felt, what I had just learned and it was all brand new and I wanted everyone to know about it. Unfortunately, I've been out for quite awhile now........And now in contrast, I have NO zeal for anything or anybody........And that is what I think is sad.