newlife

Shellon, So sorry to hear about this. Such a crazy e-mail to send to someone who is going through some things and needs the support of people. I can remember myself being in that frame of mentality, that if you left you were in "left field", or terrible things would happen to you if you would leave the protection of TWI.......Fortunately, for me, I found all of it to be Hogwash after I got out. Did I have some things that came up? Sure I did...and the silly thing I did, was at first, I feared perhaps they were right, but I can tell you today my life has never been as good as it is right now. Never...I'm truly blessed with so many people and good things in my life. And blessed to know what is healthy behavior and thinking today. I wouldn't change any of my life right now. There is really Some unhealthy thinking and behavior attached to all of that in that note they sent to you. I know you and you are able to sift through all the crap and sort it out...and thank God you can. One day perhaps they will come to realize what they have done to others in way of words and actions...until then, we move forward with the blessings and protection of a loving God, no matter what they think~!

Tzaia....... To clarify.....I didn't post saying Lamsa was right or that I was in support of VP and I clearly said that in the post....I stated that I was writing the post to indicate WHERE VP got the idea and only included a quote from Lamsa's website for people who had never heard of him....which is no indication as to his correctness. Clearly I stated I'm no researcher nor do I know anything about the Eastern vs the Western interpretation.

In Lamsa's Translation of Matthew it says, "My, God, My God, for this was I kept" www.lamsabible.com "Dr. Lamsa was a member of the Assyrian Church of the East. He was a strong advocate of one of that Church's beliefs: Pedangta primacy (a form of Aramaic primacy). His hypothesis was that for the New Testament, the Aramaic Pedangta was the original text, and the Greek version was translated from it. In support of this, he noted that Aramaic was the language of Jesus, His Disciples and the earliest Christians, including the authors of the Bible" (quoted from Home Page of Lamsa) Know that I am not trying to support VP's teaching but more of WHERE he got it from...I don't know anything much about Lamsa...but from his website he appears to be a scholar of the bible and of the early language and he was Eastern, not Western. And this is what VP said, if I recollect it correctly. I, however, don't know a thing about Eastern vs Western... Now the thing about "selling more bibles" seems a little out there for me...that doesn't seem to be right at all. I also understand the translation of "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me" and how that has been supported from the bible. And most of the "western" world believes this translation.... I've not done the research so I can't comment on what which would be the correct one...Eastern or Western It would be interesting though, I think, to look into it if you are a researcher.

Yea, I was there when it all came down...At that time I had been in for 12 years or so. Totally rocked my world...because my whole life had been based on lies that they told and I believed. I was so totally "lost"...even though I knew things were going on that were not right...yet was convinced it was me that was screwed up and things would pan out. I remember leaving and just being dumbfounded....totally dumbfounded so much I would come home from work and sit in a rocking chair and just try and digest all of it....questions flowed through my mind...Did I just lose 13 years of my life for nothing...what about God now? What was true and what was false about the bible? And how could I possibly sort ALL of that out? It was just hard to process it all in my head. I was angered because I thought the best years of my life had been taken from me...I had NO IDEA how to function now. What do you do if you don't go to twig? What do you do if there are no advances to go to or Joyful Noise to listen to? And what about all those tapes...what would happen to me for leaving? I wasn't sure about anything anymore and when I was in I was sure about Everything... I had all the answers, I had a purpose, moving the word, and I knew My God....Now, it had all fallen apart... I literally did not know how to function outside of the TWI culture...cause now I was in "their" world...all the people we had blasted because they were not with "Us" Who do you trust? Where do you go? How do you think? Totally just crushed me. Rock my world??...I think I need stronger words to describe what it did to my life. And though I've been out for 23 years...there are STILL things I have to work through from being involved... To quote a verse, I was as a sheep, led to the slaughter, at least that is the way I was feeling... The good news is...God has been putting my life back together, and healing my wounds....And I'm thankful......

Yes, there was a huge wave of the "art"s in TWI a few years....."The Word in Culture"......it died out though after a time. Too bad, cause there were so many people who were artists, musicians, authors etc. It was a nice break from all the classes etc.

Yep---I remember it too....in TWI

Shellon--- Thanks back at ya 100 Times!!!! :)

Hooking up with x-way people has been a real gift to my life. Who else knows where you are coming from? Who else can you talk to about The Way Tree? Everyone I know would be like, "What the heck are you talking about"...ever try and explain what the ministry was like to a non way person. You can't....well you can try, but they are gonna look at you and nod their head while thinking, what are you talking about? When I first left TWI, I tried to get a counselor to help with that...do you know every, and I mean everyone that I called and asked said, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that, I'm not trained in that area. In a recovery program, like AA or NA, or CA....It's members help each other to recover....WHY? Because they have been where that new person has come from. They understand how they think, how they hurt, they "get it" when the person says I just can't stop drinking/drugging, or whatever it may be and since they have recovered to a degree they are able to help another person. There's common ground...there's understanding...there's acceptance. Same with people from TWI...I've been coming to this site for YEARS...and still come. It's part of my healing...it's people who know where I've been and it's all of what I just said, common ground, understanding and acceptance. You people "get me" because you've been there...and together we heal. One of the nice things about this website is you learn it wasn't just happening with you...it was happening with everyone...and all the time you were in TWI you thought it was just you who was having a problem, everyone else looked like they were fine and had it together. What a relief to find people who were going through the same things you did and survived and they can share how they did it.... I could definitely see how People hook up romantically. Love has little to do with your involvement in a group. It has to do with hearts that beat in the same way...the attraction really has nothing to do with a group. In many instances I think it is a plus to hook up with someone from TWI...cause there's so much healing that can come from it when doing it together. You can say, Branch leader and your husband isn't gonna say, "What is that?" Love is love and it has to do with two people drawn together who want to make a life together. When it comes, take it. We need to have more love and more healing in this world of ours. Thank you all for helping me the way you have.....And I hope I've helped you in some way!

I got in in the 70's and was aghast that after Fellowship, everyone would smoke pot. And this went on for some time. When I was a WOW on the field, people were smoking and doing cocaine. I think back and the first time I went to an event, and everyone was out there smoking cigarettes....I asked someone about it and they said, well smoking has to do with your flesh, not with the spiritual and God doesn't care if you do or you don't. I had struggled with quitting smoking but had successfully done it for like almost 2 years before attending that event....but when I heard that I was like, well ok, I can go back to smoking again. (I will take full responsibility for that decision....but it should have been a "wake up" call that maybe I should reevaluate my involvement) And Then it was like almost everything, the pot, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol was somehow "OK" because it was of the flesh...and God dealt with the spiritual. Don't know if anyone else heard that explanation....But I did consistently. There was an answer for everything...a justifiable answer that just made you think, well I must be screwed up then....I know people felt that.

Welcome! You are amongst Friends here.....we can relate to what you have experienced and understanding is huge here.

I was reading some articles and I ran across these statements that just pulled me up short. "When a man joins the military, the first thing they do is strip away his individuality. He is now the member of a company or a battalion. He is no longer an individual. When you join the army, you essentially sign away your right to decide what you want to do with your life and your time. The military is filled with individuals, but they can never be individualistic. That is the first thing that a man is broken of when he joins the army." Does this ring a bell? Anyone? I can attest to this happening when I look back on my involvement with the ministry. I remember the first time I actually lived with people and I wanted to go to a movie but was told I could not go unless everyone in the house went. That made me feel like something was amiss. Yet, I had just learned that no one could do it if we all didn't do it.... I loved music...loved to play it...loved to listen to it, loved to write it. But early on, I was told to put down the music and "get into the Word" God First.... Then when I did pick up the music again...it could only be TWI music...No music that I had once liked before. In Fact, get rid of all the old music you have collected for 15 years. I loved to read, majored in English....Loved reading the great novels etc.....but now put down All of your reading material and just get focused on the Word. And I did. And I could go on and on giving examples. I don't know if some of you remember the teacher saying that if men can be trained in the military, then why can't people be trained spiritually just like that? Anyone remember that? I was not in the corps....but I've heard stories....Would be interesting to see if anyone can pick out the things that seem similar to the military Training. When I read the above paragraph I was like....that was us. We were individuals but we could never be individualistic. Basically, I lost "me". I was stripped of my individuality. "I" had become a "we" and I now liked what "We" liked...I did what "we" did...I believed what "we" believed" and I forgot who I was. I had joined up, signed on the line and and in doing so, I signed away my rights to a lot of what the first paragraph above talked about. Perhaps this was not your experience and I am really happy for you if that was the case. It wasn't mine. I'd like to hear your take on this observation...

Thanks Shellon...It HAS been a worthwhile journey...You did so much for me when I first left the ministry and I was like hanging by a thread....it was you that God brought into my life and for quite some time it was you in the chat room that kept me on the journey and I'll always be grateful for you!!!

Great Topic..... When I got Into the ministry, I was suicidal and had been for some time....I was drinking, had flunked out of college...and was really depressed. I prayed to God for help...and I was witnessed to by a fellow laborer. I was in debt, and I was definitely in a lot of Pain. I felt "Lost" and unable to pinpoint what my problem was. After running into the Ministry repeated times, after I prayed to God....I said, well ok. this must be the answer to my prayer. And I signed on the Green card. Did it save my life? I'd like to say God saved my life.....but I think I had a track record of making bad choices. I didn't know a good one if it came and knocked on my door. I was a left over hippie...just wanted to have "fun", not be responsible or grow up...just have fun... and my fun had backfired on me and I found myself in the pit. I was hardheaded...didn't want to listen to anyone...Once involved I found it was more than I thought it was and I didn't see the errors for years after I was in. My life did change for the better initially. I got out of debt, I thought I had found a "family", and did in some respects. Like some others have said, this has been a puzzle to me....Was it God that directed me to the ministry? It did a few good things for me. But it all went south....and so did I. I left mentally and emotionally in a bad place. And probably the worst thing was I didn't know what was true and what was not...just confused about it all. I look back on my involvement and whether or not I ever understand getting involved.....I know this. There were lives that I did actually touch in a very loving and Godly way. I believe God was working in me to love them. As I was also touched by other people who were loving and caring for me, something I hadn't had in my life before. I actually felt like maybe my life had some value. And I had never felt that way before. The doctrine...totally messed up which messed up people in a big way. People became domineering instead of loving...seeking a status rather than being truly loving and caring. It just turned upside down. Some of my roughest times were after I left and started trying to put the pieces back together and trying to understand it all. It almost was too much for my mind to wrap itself around. Now, after being out for 23 years, my life is the best it's ever been...but it has taken a lot to get to this point. It hasn't been an easy journey, but It's been a worthwhile one. I like reading what other people wrote in response to this topic.....Thank you to everyone for your sharing!

I scanned the website....read parts of articles, looked at the bookstore.....Looks like all of VP's works. Funny, what can trigger your mind cause my mind got triggered by looking at this website. Material doesn't look to be changed....if there are changes it might be in attitudes.....could it be??

I think it's been a journey of sorting out what is truth and what is not. And I think it will continue to be that. I also think, for me, it's seeking God....seeking a closer fellowship with Him every day. No one knows the ALL truth, except God.....but I can know a bit here and a bit there..... In TWI, I never searched anything out for myself.....I just took in what was taught to me as truth and adopted those beliefs....Bad decision on my part. BUT, I will say, one thing that was good that happened is that I actually got into the bible, which I had never been before. I attended church....but wasn't into the bible..... I have found that God always works things out for my good...the good and the bad. I'm not so concerned about having THE TRUTH on every verse and chapter like I was. I think it was the "rightly dividing" the word that got me to be such an avid searcher for the Truth. I have relaxed about it all and know that God will reveal it to me, which He has done. I guess it would be a better description to say, I have a great desire to know God and the Bible.....

Hi Clay Jar, I am very glad to hear that you have progressed so in your life to the point where you seem to be happy with where you are today. One thing I would like to say is, we are all different. We have different personalities, we have different and personal hurts and wounds. What takes one person to recover from in a year, may take another person 5 years. We all have our own personal recovery which no one can touch or judge. It's between God and I how fast or how slow I progress through those past years. I left TWI in 1987 and I still come here. Believe me when I say, I am no where close to where I was back then. I have a life, I've worked through a ton of issues, I've forgiven, I am in ministry with no offshoot group of TWI....but in ministry to the poverty and homeless group of people. I also am a director of a group of people who love to sing for God. I believe we are to live our lives to make a difference in someone else's. BUT, for years I had nothing to give to anyone else....nothing. God had to heal and work with me as He could to bring me to this point. And that has taken 22 years. You may say, why do you come back here.....to share my life, my progress with others so that they may have HOPE. I went from suicidal, mixed up, confused, angry, and unforgiving to who I am today. That is totally God. And sometimes much to my surprise, something surfaces after all this time and I just want to "Talk" about it. Where am I to go but to a site where there are other people who have had the same experiences who can validate, or suggest, or help with what comes up?? In the beginning when I first started to come here GS saved my life literally...thanks Shellon. People come here to empty their insides.....sometimes it takes a long time to do that, sometimes it doesn't. But, it happens eventually. Then there is room for the good. How they do that, when they do that and where they do that is their own business....I pray for recovery for all people who come to GS or who go other places. I'll never "arrive" to a place where there is no other growth to achieve....This life is a journey and not a destination. I will continue to learn, uncover, recover, change, and grow until my last breath or until I see him Face to Face.... Shalom

Appreciate the article and the perspective that was given. For me, personally, any nostalgia I had after leaving was the "good times" I had with people...and the relationships. The so called "family" that was now missing. I longed for that many times over. It's difficult to "let go" of something when you see nothing to takes it's place. It's painful even. Now, after being out of TWI for 22 years my life is totally different, totally satisfying, and I don't long for anything in the past that I had in TWI. Today, My life is full and it could noy have come from anyone but God. As far as the research goes....I didn't buy a lot of it when I was in....Red flags would go up all the time when I would hear something being taught and I'd go...What? But what did I know? I hadn't researched all those years that we were told that TWI had done....so of course, I threw out my gut feeling about it all. Now, I've pretty much thrown all of it out.... Research? What I am glad of is...I know how to use a concordance, interlinears, bible dictionaries and all the other research sources that I was introduced to in TWI. I know that there are such a thing as figures of speech and orientalisms. I learned the value of reading and believing the Bible. These are the things I gleaned.... Since out, I've learned "Go to God for yourself"...... This post probably isn't exactly on the money for the topic, but thought I'd share my thoughts.

Hello Everyone, Just interested in knowing how far back visitors go on GS that has been in TWI. There seems to be lots of different experiences by many different people. Depending on when you were involved there are different perspectives given. Thanks!

Oakspear....BINGO....you said it all!

Bramble.....I'd answer those two statements....Yes, I would call that suicide......and Yes if you could do it to yourself, then I think it would be logical to think you could do it to someone else too. Wow...that really made me think! Yea, and why didn't they look for the Death spirit and cast it out? More to think about.....hmmmmmmm

I was just wondering if any of the corps that read this could clarify what I believe I read. In the POP towards the end it was stated that VP turned to the side of the wall and shut his organs down and died. This indicated he had the power to do that which in turn indicated he could decide. This "shutting down of organs" is/was this a teaching only to the corps? I had never heard it. I once was very, very, sick, and a person of the corps status said to me, if you want to die, let me know and I'll tell you how to do it. I never asked....I got healed. But this whole thing about the individual shutting down their organs....can anyone comment on that? I do believe Death is a spirit...any comments on that? Without making this a morbid post....just wondered what the teaching was on the organ deal and where did it come from...how did they get that from the Word....... Thanks

Someone please correct me if I am wrong on this ok... I've read the POP, some time ago, and if I remember correctly, it wasn't the believers that VP blamed but instead it was the board of trustees. I think in the last part of the document, VP asked CG if they had changed and the answer was no. Somehow I got the idea that VP thought if they had changed, if they somehow started looking at him as the MOG he was again, he could live. Any further posts on this to clarify would be welcome....

When I left, I didn't want to give anything to anyone, time, money, cleaning their houses, etc. I was burnt out totally. And I didn't give for a very long time. And God took excellent care of me. Then, I started seeing something, I started seeing all the things God had done for me...like took me from the pit of emotional, & mental despair and brought me to a place of some peace of mind and even some joy....improved my job situation by 100%, Gave me a beautiful home, healed me of a life threatening disease which the Dr. had told me I had a 20% chance of surviving (I was completely healed of it)...Gratitude overwhelmed me...it was then I realized that the heart of "giving" had been really distorted in my thinking and that the Heart of giving is out of gratitude and thankfulness for what God has done for me not because a group demands it, or doing it out of fear of what will happen if I don't, or doing it because I will get something out of it. That insight changed my attitude and about it. So, I give out of a thankful heart...do I struggle with it still? I do...at times....but if I just take a look at all the things God has done for me, it doesn't take long for me to say....Thank-you with my giving. Where do I give...at first it was to anyone that I saw had a need...then I got involved with a mission outreach to the poor and low poverty people...that is where I now give to thank God.

I never recalled anyone in TWI downgrading the term Christian. We just never used the term alot, even though I considered myself to be one. Our thing was Believer, Family and or Household. If you were a believer you were part of the Family....Household on the other hand meant something totally different. As far as I can see in the bible, there is no "household" You get born again and you are in the Family of God. They never said so called Christians weren't in the Family, to my knowledge, but you had to be in TWI and "walking the Word" to be in the household. And later I think it turned into, if you were Corps you were in the household. This is what my memory recollects..It was a long time ago since I was in TWI.....I could be wrong....

My First ROA was in '75. I loved the ROA...I loved the music, I loved meeting new people...I looked forward to it every year. For me, I could see a difference when the transitioning began to take place from one leader to the next. My last ROA was in 1987, and that was just a really strange ROA with all that was going on at that time. I left after attending that ROA. I loved the music, Pressed Down, Joyful Noise, Branded, and so on. I am a musician so of course that was a major love for me. I learned their songs and listened to their music all the time. In fact, the deciding factor for me to actually get involved with the ministry was the time I went to a coffeehouse and heard their music. Do I think they measure of to the christian groups of today? Well, musically I think they do...and some of the songs they sang were very healing to me....words of comfort. Others were fun. And of course, Now I know a lot of the lyrics were really not the truth. I believe in the beginning when I was around, the songs dealt with Being Born Again....Searching for answers, and finally getting born again. Songs that dealt with some of the pain before etc. And the joy of being free in Christ. Years going by, I think the message changed a lot. I don't have any of those recordings any more, nor do I play the songs any more...I changed to Christian artists of today...That came with the change in the doctrine I now believe. I think the heart of the musicians in the early years were loving and kind and with no agenda in mind. Later I am not sure about that. And of course since I left in 87, I don't know what ROA was like after that or the music. I moved on. I do think that the music of then was focused on Our relationship with God and His love for us, and what He would do for us...and I think the Christian music is more focused on our worship of God. Of course the teachings I now know were not the real truth...and what you preach makes a difference in what you sing. Only thing I didn't like about the ROA.....the line for the showers!