newlife

I think sometimes we have the expectation of being treated badly because we were used to being treated badly. It somehow became the "norm" for us. I, too, have discovered the most kindest, warm, accepting, and loving people in the places I would have LEAST expected it to come from. It has repeatedly blown my mind...... I accept it, and try to return it to others......

If Nothing changes.......Nothing Changes!!

Thanks Skyrider for reminding me it was "real" to me and in fact for a very long time.....it was real. And I should say, I did see God work personally in my own life in many and various ways. I'm afraid the reality of what it really was came to light......and for a long, long, time, I ached on the inside for the lost of something that at one time I really loved. Had people really had God First instead of a man or a ministry......I can't even fathom the potential had it been different. Appreciate the honesty and heart of everyone's post.

Shellon, I can relate...."The worst and the Best" years........ I know you have gone through a difficult time in the past year....I've prayed for you and your family. I watched and heard about things you have gone through....you are indeed a strong woman! :)

Powerful posts....both of them. Thanks.......

There was something Noble, so I thought, about what TWI promoted. That there was an absolute truth to be known, and that we had a "mission" to tell people about the truth. That was appealing to me. Had it been genuine, it would have been a beautiful journey spiritually. There were things about the ministry that were excellent, in my opinion, like the music and singers we had. In the beginning, when I saw and learned that things were done in a way to be a blessing to people it kind of blew my mind. There were things I learned that I had never learned growing up...like commitment, responsibility. What I guess I am saying is, from the very first, everything was beautiful...and appealing. I had been looking for a "family" having come from a family which didn't function, this group met a huge void in my life. For someone like me, who wanted to serve God for my lifetime, I thought this was "it".....I totally believed that this was everything I had been looking for and wanted. The very fact that I was deceived really affected me for a long time......At first it was, God, if in fact it was you, why did you lead me to this group when it turned out so badly. I couldn't figure it out. I was upset because I felt that my "best years" had been stolen away from me. The middle years of my life, when people were to be settled with a career, family etc....I felt like I had lost them and it angered me. And it angered me that this was not "it"...the plan I had perceived it to be for my life with God. But had it been different, to me there was something noble, and something very much appealing to me in knowing truth and then telling people about God, cause I really did believe in "evangelism" from being brought up in the church. But TWI was not real and it was not genuine. The devil makes it all seem "Godly" when it is not at all. His ministers like "shining lights" Had it been different........But it wasn't. Did you feel at first, the same as I did???

I'll go a bit further........I acted as a buffer for the members in my fellowship when the WC leadership came down on me as a fellowship leader. The Way Tree is straight from the you know where..... And I've told that to many people who are in the split offs....if it's got the Way Tree system....it is going to go down eventually......

Interesting posts........ The ability to separate the Truth from the lies are very hard to do when you are in because you think everything is truth, based on what you have been taught. But inwardly, you know there have been times when you have said to yourself...."What?" "That doesn't make any sense" OR "I don't think that's right", or "Why do we have to do that" or "Why is it always "MY" fault" and leadership is ALWAYS right. How can a human being ALWAYS be right? I think there was only one that was ALWAYS right. How can you absolutely believe you are right in a situation, (in fact, know you are right), but when someone else says, "No you are wrong and you should be humble because I am your leadership and I am spiritually in charge....Do you abandon yourself in favor of accepting "Their truth". Why do you not trust yourself any more. Do you even know who you are any more??? Have you abandoned what you loved before you entered into TWI? Can you answer these questions honestly?

Been out for 23 years and so my mind has straightened out considerably. So hearing this, my first thought was, That is just crazy.....that people would believe something like people looking like VP because of a familiar spirit. So, it just is so "far out there", my mind can't wrap itself around the idea....which tells me, my mind must be in pretty good shape!

What is the one, or two things that you would tell an "innie" so that they could decide for themselves if they were being deceived or not. How could they really "Know". Keep in mind we have all talked about the "Past" here. And even if they have read some things, or even a lot of things, it was what happened BACK then and not NOW. The goal here is to give them something to help them make a decision on their own, to come to their own conclusions, not make the decision for them...and to not belittle them for being in. I would say to them, you really have to start trusting yourself and what you think.

I went wow that year....To Colorado. That year was the best year of my life in TWI...... The rest of the years are definitely in a race for the worst!

Thanks for sharing all of this. It is true, I too had to look at myself and say what inside of me allowed those things in my life? I'm in recovery and it's been a good thing for me. I'm still on the journey and there is much to learn and many ways to grow in. Thanks!

Ditto on what everyone has said so far. When I left I was emotionless, except for the spiritual anger that JavaJane talked about. I had actually feared feeling emotions.... I had no empathy for anyone....And I didn't want to experience those negative feelings. It wasn't until I got involved with recovery that feelings became important to me. I fought feeling sad, or grieving. I still only wanted to feel the good ones. But they kept telling me you can't feel the good only....you have to also feel the bad ones. I entered recovery in 1995.....Today, I can cry at a commercial! I can cry when something Good happens to people on TV....and of course, I can laugh, feel happy, have joy. It's a work in progress still. We have God given emotions....all of them...it's what makes us human. I was a "dead" person emotionally when I left....Now, I'm alive with the whole scope of feelings. Maybe I thought it was a weakness to show emotions I don't know...but I do know that now it's a part of just being human.

Well, my experience has been that my answer to that is probably yes they do. This calls to my remembrance back in 1978 when the Jim Jones tragedy happened and all those people died. First of all, we didn't know anything about it because we didn't read papers, listen to the news. I was a wow at the time. And we got this tape that VP put out telling about the incident and telling what was "behind" the scenes. And basically, if I remember accurately, he said that this was an attack on TWI....that it brought to the forefront what people would of considered cults and the attack was on TWI cause that's what people considered TWI to be. Also, he said, if I am not mistaken that the government did it. I JUST saw an interview a few weeks ago with Jim Jones, Jr. on TV. He told the real story of all how it all happened. His father believed that there would be an attack on his following because a gov. official had visited the compound and he was afraid of what would happen. He ordered the people to "drink the kool aid". Children first because he knew then that the parents after seeing their children start to die would not want to live themselves. Jim Jones Jr. was away at the time but his father called and told him to commit suicide in any way he could. He didn't follow his father's directions. And what was REALLY interesting is that Jim Jones Jr could not really confess his anger at his father for doing what he did. He said well, I have to say that my father tried to change the world....he tried. Didn't mean to get off on Jim Jones....but very similar. They too felt that they were being targeted. I think TWI was the at the center of every attack in the world....it always seemed to really come back to the fact that people were attacking TWI. I was never Corps so this is only Hear say....that they were taught how to die. Like I said, it's just something I heard but don't know. I do know that they were ready at any given signal to go "underground". Had food ready, maps, etc ready to leave at any sign of attack. I know this is true because someone called me who was in the corps and said, if I call you be ready in a minutes notice to pack and me a group of us where we tell you to meet us. Not your average fellowship call I'd say. Paronoid? Definitely.....We were so important the world was always at our door trying to attack us and destroy TWI

Got involved in 1975----left in 1987. When I told church people, they were disturbed and looked at me like I was Poison or something...stampeded me to get me "saved". When I told others they would say oh, hmmmmm....and changed the subject...they didn't really care where I had been or what had happened. I think because they had no inkling what "cult" really meant, it wasn't something they thought was of great relevance. When I told therapists, this is really true, they said, we don't know how to help you we've not had any experience with cults. All I all I think it's about being able to relate. How can anyone who never was in TWI really know and understand what it was like? They can't, even if you explained to the enth degree, only those who have "been there" really get it. Less said is better many times. I just wanted everyone to know and understand....I found it an awakening when no body really wanted to know all that badly. That's why these kind of websites are vital for those who lived the experience. We "get it" and you don't have to explain. We know.

After reading what you wrote and looking at it from an outsider view....I'm just telling you what I see....it may be right, it may be wrong....I'm not claiming any expertise. You said you were WC. Being WC it was pretty much drilled into your head that you had a higher calling than most. I don't know you so maybe you were even ordained. Part of what I think is really trashing your joy is that you feel like you aren't really fulfilling your "calling". That God had put you on a path with Godly purpose So you feel guilty about it...You feel you should be doing something "more spiritual" for God. Now you aren't on that path, but instead going back to your music. Maybe he's putting you on the path he had for you to be on ORIGINALLY, but you took a left turn there for a few years. (we all did) You sound like you are extremely talented and gifted. Though set aside for a while, I believe God has restored your vision for your future. I played music before TWI...and I had a horrible time getting back into it. I had just "lost" the passion I had for it...but God Brought people back into my life that helped me regain that area. I played for many years, sometimes even in bands....and in the last year have gotten away from it in favor of writing. Another thing I was doing before TWI and now it's my vision for myself. What an opportunity you have and what friends you have to be there for you. Connections like that just don't happen every day by coincidence. Jump into it and have fun. There's great healing in it for you!!!! And there's great freedom. PTSD....we all have it I think!!! It messes with us. The wisest thing I could tell you is, "Give it Time" and in the meantime keep going forward with it...keep walking through the open doors, keep playing....and one day it will be as natural to you and bring such joy in your life, you'll not know why you ever felt guilty about it.

I spoke in tongues BEFORE I got involved with TWI...And I still Speak in Tongues. Not as much as I did in TWI...but There are times when I especially do....like if I am having trouble going to sleep. I speak in tongues and every time, I then just drift off into sleep. I speak in tongues when I am in a situation and I don't know what to do about something. I speak in tongues for other people. It's just not as regimented as it was in TWI. I don't HAVE to do it....I get to choose now when I do or don't. It's more inspired now.

Java Jane....ditto what you said about PTSD.....ME too. It's amazing what it does to you. I have a terrible time with being involved with "groups" and people in spiritual authority. People who criticize and judge. Been out for 23 years and still there are moments and there are still times of triggers that can send me reeling. Greatly improved over time, but like you, I was told too that I'd probably have some sort of effect for a life time.

I'm not sure I am "Over it" yet and I've been out for 23 years! However I certainly am not where I was when I first left. When I first left I didn't know what to do or where to go. I had estranged my family and now my mother didn't trust me at all. I tried church and that didn't work because I had my defenses regarding doctrine and beliefs that were still tied to TWI. I remember a couple inviting me their house (This was 2 months out) for Christmas Eve and being aghast at the Christmas tree and the Christmas music and thinking "what am I doing here". I wasn't sure I knew God at all, but I knew I wasn't gonna pray, Thank you God for this, thank you God for that........vain repetitions. I just didn't know so I prayed to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and I asked for help. I needed help, I couldn't fix myself and I knew it. I asked for God to put me back together and I had to believe that He would. I did go to therapy for a number of years....that was helpful. I found out after I got out I had an addiction problem. So I entered into recovery...where I learned how to change, how to live healthy and addressed a lot of issues in my life. That's a process that is still going on today. I read books, some that have already been mentioned here. I read books that people had written about their group experience and could relate to what they had written. I hung out here at grease spot in the chat room and on the forums. A lot of it has been knowing it's ok to give myself permission to do things like, Note read the bible for awhile or to read different versions To listen to music that wasn't TWI, I love James Taylor and Carole King. To let people be people and that they were wonderful without taking a class. To read novels and whatever book I wanted to read To be social with people and be on their level not above them. To rid myself of TWI materials and be ok with it I realized that I was entangled by fear....afraid to this or do that because God wouldn't approve. I found out that I was not a "copped out believer in Left field". I had been in a prison that I didn't know I was in....and was so used to it that now having so much freedom, it was scary to actually accept it. "Getting over it" is a process...and it takes time. You never know when something will pop up and you'll be like, oh I've never seen that before in me, or I didn't realize I was still believing that. Today, my life is so very different than the day I left. I'm not the same person at all. I'm am very grateful for the path I have taken since leaving. I am a better person now than I was even before I got into TWI and certainly since leaving. I encourage you to continue to hang out here, to ask for help, and to ask questions. There's so much posted here in different topics that could be beneficial to you. But ALWAYS remember, you are NOT alone. You have a ton of people sorting out their lives like you are. We can tell you what we have done in our lives...some of it you will utilize, some you will not. You are a unique person and your path to healing will be a little different than the next person....just follow the leading if you think you need to do something. That's what I did. We're here for you!

Loved what you had to say Java Jane...I can relate to it all. My whole way of thinking has changed and my beliefs. I remember a time shortly after exiting that I just didn't know who God was anymore. And I faced this question of how do I pray and to whom. (I,too, through out all the Thank you God for this, Thank you God for that) I finally got the idea I would pray to the father of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!! I figured He knew who he was so I couldn't go wrong in praying that way. Ha! There's no way anyone knows everything about God. God is infinite and we are finite. It's a process and it does take effort to take an honest look at who I was back then and when I see who I am today....no comparison...none at all. I'm happy today and I don't know everything!!!

Totally agree.....I've asked myself that question.....People don't walk over me any more, nor do I just "buy" something because someone says it's so. I have definitely looked at me before getting into TWI and what state I was in, what I believed, what I was actually "looking for" when I joined up, I've learned, since leaving, that people only have the power over you that you allow them to have. I really had no skills at living life and living it healthy. I didn't know healthy from unhealthy. At that time which was after the 60,s had breezed through, I thought life was suppose to be a party,only fun, anti establishment. And I definitely was anti the church as it stood then. I was naive, for one thing.....I didn't know anything about the bible...and so these people were experts, and biblical scholors so they said, and I said OK...teach me. And they did. I had nothing to compare it to...it sounded "right", it sounded "good"....definitely fed into my life style, which was yes you can smoke, yes you can drink and God is cool with that. I came from a home that was not a family and I definitely was looking what what I hadn't had growing up and TWI provided that "family". Unfortunately, it was also very disfunctional and I was blind to it. I don't know....I would love to lay the total blame at their feet, but that would not be the truth. The truth is that for some reason, I allowed them to do what they did in my life. I ignored the inbuilt red flags that came up many, many times because I didn't trust myself to know. I trusted them to know and them to tell me. I think I was "primed" for the experience due to my background. I was just food for their lunch. Having said all that, there was so much evil going on, and I think it's been discussed here over and over and over again, so I don't have to reiterate all that has already been said, but it's a tragic, tragic story of how an organization of people (not all, but most) can take advantage of other human beings. Power is something human's love to have...and it has been shown how corrupt, sinful, and stripping it can be. Today, I am in a good place, spiritually, and mentally. But, it's taken a lot of work on my part. I've learned the skills I didn't have when I signed the green card. I learned how to be true to me...to own my own power and not give it away like I did. Our lives have value...and I had to learn how to value it myself.

Well, I'll tell you that before I got into TWI, I was a musician, guitar, keyboard.....gave lessons on instruments as well as voice. Got into TWI and it was within months I was instructed to put down all music and only focus on the word. So, I did. I stopped playing, writing songs, giving lessons etc etc. It totally messed with me because that was what I was good at and loved and to not do it, just crushed me. So for three years I had nothing to do with music. It wasn't until I went WOW, that the limb coordinator heard I used to play music and sing and he asked me to play and sing at the limb meeting. I said I can't....he said why not, and I said because I was told not to play music and focus on the word. He said I think you should go ahead and do this, it's ok. I had to borrow a guitar cause I had sold mine...but I did one song. After that music was still a "dead" issue for me. No passion for it....lost it. After leaving TWI (and I was in for 13 years)...the first thing I wanted to do was music again...but I had no, absolutely no passion for it....it was gone. And it was really kind of strange as in my head I recalled my days prior to TWI and what I was doing and I so wanted to do that again...and I just could not Get the "passion" back. It was 13 years later that I befriended someone who actually helped me start playing again. But it took time even with that to get back into it and enjoy it. And truthfully, it has never meant as much to me now as it did prior TWI. There's nothing "Fine" about Arts with no "Create"ivity.

First thing to go for me was the Law of Believing....That lifted a huge weight off my shoulders The next was the "absent Christ"--who is not absent at all and from there it's been a list of them that have been tossed out

- "the huge pile of menial tasks I had to complete in order to be pleasing to God, to earn my rewards in heaven, to keep the adversary from attacking. I was so distracted by trying to be perfect, by trying to live up to the impossible standard that I never even saw how ridiculous it all was" AMEN and AMEN!!!!

Dreams.....I know I quit dreaming when I was in TWI... I know I was sharing a bedroom with a twig leader...and she would wake me up if I was dreaming and would say, "Get into fellowship, you were dreaming".....I didn't want to go back to sleep just out of fear! This happened lots over time. Somewhere along the way, I did quit dreaming though. Now I dream, good and bad and I don't think too much about it. Yes, Bol...the Happy Birthday song....I laughed.....we did sing, "may all your dreams come true" didn't we?