Ham

I think a lot of it depends on a person's character. Only a godly or righteous person would not intentionally use liberty as a license, or excuse for sin. He who is righteous practices righteousness. Hmm.. the law wasn't made for the righteous, was it?

Ah, what a world of opposites we live in.. I had "proper" protocol drilled into my head so much.. that I find myself wishing to do or actually doing the opposite. It seems that a lot of ex higher-up's in the organization get the same kind of reception here, and wonder what hit them.. Maybe what I was thinking on the other threads may get more mileage here. The big "rev" enters the room. I just can't bring myself to use that word.. "hello rrr, um, reeee, um.. rrrreeee.." Just can't give the sycophants that kind of respect anymore.. maybe der vey ruined me.. I really did sit down a couple of times, when his "greatness" entered the room, on purpose. "They" don't want me in charge of the little details.. instead of mints, I really would put carefully cut sections of Alka Seltzer in the little dish behind the podium... not pure white vinegar, but maybe diluted somewhat.. after frothing and spitting out vinegar water, the visiting mogness would wonder what kind of "fellowship" he was really invited to.. I wouldn't have anybody sitting in the first row.. Now that's over.. what would people here do, or have done? I wonder if anybody else has ever felt the same.. Any suggestions for "anti-protocol" are welcome.

I think.. I don't know if I would call it harm, but my kids are finding that I really am quite different without the religious veneer I wore in der ministry. In a way, I was doing the best I knew to do at the time. I can only hope they don't or won't think I'm some kind of hypocrite.

That always sounded kinda "funny" to me.. I didn't know ears had balls..

and have not a single chair facing the same directionas another. Not a stinking one..

You know you are out of a cult if.. Can't call anybody reverand before slapping them silly, a couple of times.. Put salt tablets in the bowl behind the podium in the little dish, instead of mints.. Or alka-seltzer.. and white vinegar in the cup, instead of water.. sit down quickly, when the mogness enters the room.. let him (or her) ride a stinking taxi from the airport.. make a habit of showing up five, or even ten minutes late ..

I'm not suprised you beat me to this Groucho.. Reminds me of the older "Inlaws"movie, had Alan Arkin and Peter Faulk.. Peter Faulk is explaining to Allen when they meet the dictator "and don't say ANYTHING about the scar.." "what scar".." Just ignore it". When they meet.. "A Z?" you have to see it in the original.. I still have problems with this protocol nonsense.. I've almost gone to the other extreme, and deliberately insult these sycophants.. Now I'd put salt tablets, carefully cut into precise quarters in a crystal tray, for the visiting mogster. I have been know to simply sit down when one of them enters the room.. I can't bring myself to call these jokers "reverand".. just can't.. "You may call me Reverand" "Only after I slap you a couple of times.."

Assuming a whole heck of a lot to begin with.. I think any time somebody invokes power, there is a cost, or a consequence. Nothing in the universe is entirely free. Maybe the real key is to leave as small of a footprint as one can. Maybe needs and wants don't HAVE to be the same.. but I think perhaps they should be. I think the old needs and wants parallel teaching had a different purpose in da ministry. It was often used to justify failure, failure to get "results". It left the fundamental claim that one could believe for practically anything untouched, without blame, and put fault on the one who was praying for next month's rent. It is very easy to find fault and determine what "need" is, in someone else's life. The "law" of believing needed quite a few loopholes for when it apparently did not work.

Yep. Nuts have always been the downfall of man.. "here boy, here boy, go get the pecan.." People are soooo easy..

I didn't get that in der ministry. Maybe some did.. I got an air of "superiority", a sense that I was on the inside of a few secrets.. I was an egotisitcal, arroganct SOB.. and I mistook it for "boldness". when what I practiced did not work, I could blame the devil for fighting my efforts.. when things seemingly worked, I had a dogma that I could give the glory to. No matter what happened, I was "right". There were lots more like me..

Arrogance.. "we're PREVAILING.." kinda like when Jezebel was cornered, "I'm the master here, and it'll go a lot better for you, if you do business with ME.." That's what the words she used implied. Yep.. prevailing, an annoyance all the way to the end..

Ya know.. those who "grew up" and went beyond what the vicster presented, were KICKED OUT. Yeah.. the GMIR guys.. who's left? Walter's been gone for years.. he was one of the few with a brain in the organization. I really think he would have taken the organization in a more responable, legitimate direction..

No, actually reading.. asides from a few "mysterious" greek words, and figures.. the vocabulary is fifth grade material. If that is all one wants in life.. no big deal I guess. Just personally.. all I ever got out of it was a false sense of superiority, and an illusion that I was getting "results" when I was just getting my a** kicked.. a class on "keys".. hmm. How to understand the bible.. I remember thinking.. OK.. basic keys. More advanced keys in later classes.. the only one that remotely fulfilled that promise was the "keys to research" class. (no longer offered.) What did I get from THAT? OH.. connective words, knew that already.. learned what an atlas was.. and a "suggestion" from the teacher.. "if ole vic didn't teach it, I wouldn't venture into other areas.." Now I think that bit of advice was given, lest the student pick up another person's work, and read line by line and word for word what vic just raw copied. Probably not the only reason.

Perhaps. But as a husband.. how would you feel if somebody else came in your place, started making rules.. taking YOUR place? I think most people would have a few issues.. but is not this what twi has done? The followers themselves are not trusted enough to just read the bible on their own.. no new research.. forced to rehash 25 + year old materials.. have to follow inane, "stupid" rules and leadership, to the letter.. yeah, "the word" takes the place of the supposedly absent christ.

Well, the absent Christ makes less sense than the headless horseman.. The body is left here without it's head.. floundering around looking for it.. as a second choice, it picks up a bible and wears it in place of the real head.. gruesome.

I still think middle school english has more to offer.

Middle school english classes, at least aroud here, start kids on the right path of documentation. Both of my kids knew what in text citation was by the eighth grade.. says a lot for the intellectual level and honesty behind der class. To publish a whole book.. without a SINGLE citation of sources.. not counting bible chapters and verses.. not a single one.. good grief. It looks like a second grade reader..

hmm.. yep, that is the STATED purpose. "one way.." ? Perhaps that was part of the bait.. It soon became the "exclusive" way.. the supposed "greatest" teaching of der bible since the apostle paul.. The "keys" were no more useful than a middle school education in english..

Which one do you want to break? Doesn't bring "wrath"? Sure brings consequences. I kinda thought the two were somehow related..

The amazing or not so amazing thing, depending upon your point of view, is how twi's theology can be summed up in so few words..

So so true. The person who merely lifts whole pagess of another's works, makes the same possible false conclusions. The same errors. If a person skips the process of true discovery.. the conclusions have no merit. At least in my opinion.

Congratulatoins! I hope the graduate has some plans too.. I know how you feel about the old deal.. I just had a couple of squirrels graduate from college. One of them, against all odds.. and not of her choosing. :) Now the "old man" has to graduate Another year.. or so. :)

That's why I don't mind a little bit of dialog. I can see a little bit of myself in you, Mr. WW.

Thanks White Dove.. I remember seeing an interview with Robert Plant. He said something to the effect of "we were just a bunch of young punks who stole the blues.." What is interesting though... after leaving der vey, my musical interests took up just where they left off.. maybe that's part of the authentic self..

Hmm. Well, now squirrels all over can sleep a little better. Humans won't hunt them for their brains any more.. http://www.greysquirrel.net/brain.html