Ham

I'm still waiting for a definition of the safe harbor, or haven, that you speak of.. I understand your frame of mind. You don't feel compelled to cast your swine before the pearls here. Tell me if I'm off base..

the vicster had no more "authority" than that which he robbed others of..

Standard? What standard? The officer, yes. The vicster stole his "position". he wasn't really a "doctor", or don't you know that? either way.. he was a dick. And a very small one, at that.

amazing.. what's the reason for all the mind-numbing detail, to schedule the devil out of your "presentation"? Too bad it didn't work with some followers recent "investments"..

for me? No. Informed decision? "This type of ministry"? while I was busy eating bologna sandwiches and "witnessing" and running classes, cabinet members were freely fornicating with my sisters in christ, some with and some against their will. "this type of ministry" Informed decision? I'd still like to know what your definition of a safe harbor, or safe haven is. Apparently it was NOT safe if one was young, attractive, and female..

they probably wouldn't know what to do, after you hired them, either.

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=creator%3A%22Dr.%20V.P.%20Wierwille%22&page=1 Probably a couple hundred more..

I think this post belongs here. Really, I'm giving you a chance to explain yourself. There is a lack of communication here. It's probably the non-communication that is inherent in way speak. safe harbor. or haven. *we* know what THAT means, don't *we*. Uhhh, no. Shovel-ready manogawd(?).. surely that rings some bells somewhere.. no. I've tried elsewhere framing a few answers with multiple choice options. Any of them close?

no, I am actually trying to understand you. Maybe that is an impossibility. I've given you several chances to explain yourself. What was the safe harbor, or safe haven you seem to have enjoyed under vic's tutelage? Thirty pages on another thread, and you finally admit it was NOT physical safety or security. For any run of the mill way follower. That's a good start. We've moved one block of "what it is not" aside. What exactly WAS it? Maybe we should address the same question to CFF.. I think the worst answer I'd get is "I don't know. I'll have to look it over a little more closely.."

What exactly was considered with the exclusion? Money? Spiritual support? Friends? Retribution? Thankfulness, for years of support? An apology? "nothing" is pretty vague..

it's the same here. I used to be johniam as well. I was obnoxious, carrying a bible.. Now, I'm just obnoxious. I understand him. The frustration, trying to reach da world with da word.. thinking practically any other belief originated with the devil.. or devil spirits.. thinking I had *practically* all of the answers. Or had all the tools to squeeze them out of the bible.. but on topic. I find the offshoots dogma very distasteful, a poor, sour, half-baked recipe. But to me, that does not make them "bad people".. until they turn abusive and controlling like.. CES. One "crisis" after the next.. no real care for the consequences to the ordinary followers.. and others running STUPID programs.. where a devotee can be sent packing in the middle of the night, at the sole discretion of "those charged with oversight(?).."

I still waiting for an explanation of this little statement as well. "Shovel ready" "man of god????" Except for a few times pa cornered him on the farm.. past that, he didn't do an honest days labor for the rest of his life..

So I'm still waiting here.. HOW was vic's "ministry" a safe harbor, or a safe haven? How was his "organization" even a *ministry*?

This post probably belongs here. I really think you have a persecution complex of sorts. Is this how you justify your existence? talk about how a woman buzzing around like a fly.. and needs clocked? Then wonder.. "duhhhh.. what did *I* ever do... duhhhhhhh.." must just be those pesky devils.. do you REALLY think you represent God Almighty, and people vehemently disagreeing with you gives you some kind of verification?

Perhaps. And perhaps.. *mr* iam. Do you have an inordinate need for "persecution"? You know.. they come to twig, see your books. Look the hoodlum up.. and they slowly back away. No real argument. So what to do.. take the "battle" to the "enemy"? Do you really think the inhabitants of GS are a mass shelter for devil spirits, and it is your mission to "clear them out"? There are a few problems with this notion.. Either 1. We are. And you apparently don't have the authority to bind us or silence us in vic's name. 2. We are. And the name you are using does not have any real authority.. 3. You're dead wrong, There are no devils here, no "persecution" from "the enemy". 4. You are seriously deluded. 5. ... I left the options open here..

So many assumptions here. just wonder.. why do you want to convince ME? Who is trying to stop you? maybe this is the only audience you can quote that much bible? Or is it that every time someone new comes to your "twig", they see herr doktor's books lining the shelf, and look him up on the internet? He was less than a dirtbag.. now, CFF hasn't given me a reason to think that of them.. a few that still fawn over the remembrance of the "founder".. that gives me a sick feeling. Maybe they just don't know what he did.. maybe they are too terrified to consider it.. but as far as being a CHURCH.. they don't appear malevolent or anything..

and that is why I hope they don't accept the god forsaken example of sowers.. what do you do with a "follower" that finds more sense in the thought of reincarnation.. throw me away.. you are losing a lot here.. Hopefully the "founder" isn't singing.. I'm my own Grandpa... I'm my own grandpa... Priceless..

Our fader in da word. Drambuie be thy name.. thy kingdom(?) come.. hollow be thy name..

I dunno. It seems it's (huper fundamentalist) Christianity, that buries itself.. how can one be logically accused of "targeting" something that seems intent on killing itself.. in other words, targeting itself? pretty weird.. sleep WHAT off? I wish they still sold something that I could sleep off.. sleep off.. usually "sleep off" works for sedatives.. no thanks. for some the "trip" needed Thorazine to "sleep it off". No thanks.. How do you know? Maybe he was just being honest. As in.. if you are the cat's meow here.. lets see YOU walk on water.. I dunno. Fair question, to me..

I wish it was that innocent.. I would tend more, to call it opportunism. a dollar to be donated.. or extorted..

*Mr* linder. or now 178 pound 5 foot 9/1/2 replacement. Please extend this olive branch to rosie, et al. Hopefully while I'm still alive. Well.. in this particular small existence..

if it makes any difference, I didn't slander anyone here. Maybe you need to define the term "slander". slander is slander, if it is not based in fact. Now, as far as CFF is concerned.. outside of some doctrinal differences. I really have no charge to lay here.. or if I could rephrase it.. they haven't given me a reason to lay any charge. My take on it.. they at best TOLERATE being associated with the victoid's name. If they start building shrines, memorial gardens, rock gardens.. groves to herr vicmeister, we might have to REALLY part company.. a couple of their affiliates have. Well.. CFF itself, I can't say I know what they've done for the last two years. I hope not building shrines.. At this point.. I don't see them being any different than another church.. I hope I am not disappointed in this perception..

"by the numbers" I'm supposed to be some kind of peacemaker. Good luck..

It just looks to me.. like the same scenery, whether observed from either party line..

at great risk of turning "political" here.. are they not poor republican voters, housed in cheap tenements? sorry, I was just sent to observe here..