DogLover

Thanks for the offer, PB ... please tell him SP from Morganton, NC sends her love ... he was such a funny and wonderful guy! I love the "in your face" picture of him on the Way Corps site that igotout put together!

Welcome, Nero! You are loved and cared about here ... but most of all by God, our Father. The most heinous thing the Way did to us, in my opinion, was to take that which we loved, God and His Word, and twist it and use it against us. It is a testimony to God's goodness and our own perseverence that we made it through. Putting one's life together after cult involvement is a difficult thing, but I think you will find that if you can find a group of loving people (Christians would be great, but people who share the same interests as you and like you for you can be wonderful also) ... that life will be easier and more enjoyable. And, in keeping with my screen name, get yourself a dog if you can ... a lovable Labrador or other such loving beast as will greet you unconditionally and always think you are the greatest thing since sliced bread ... and you are! DogLover

I was just thinking of how much I enjoyed the "Called Out" tape by the group of the same name ... they were 11th Corps at Emporia. Does anyone have a tape or CD they would burn and sell to me? I would be most grateful! DogLover

If I read the Bible correctly, only rewards are handed out at the Bema ... but all the unprofitable, unkind, evil things any Christian did are all burned up ... what's left is the good and for that, we get rewarded. On the other hand, people also reap what they sow in the here and now ... eventually. All that unkindness and evil comes back around to those folks that dished it out. They don't have to wait until Christ comes back to reap what they sow.

Andy, Thanks for sharing your inspiring story ... DogLover

She married Edgar Ibarra.

"certainly, doody's daddy left enough for her from the furniture business in nc to provide for any of the physical comforts the've grown accustomed to....." Just as a minor point of clarification: it is not a furniture business ... it is Lowe's Home Improvement Warehouse, begun by Dottie's grandfather and some others in North Wilkesboro, NC with money made from selling "white lightning" ... the original hardware store was a way to safely launder moonshine money. In this part of the country, Lowe's is a strong competitor to Home Depot. Many smaller cities (such as the one in which I live) have a Lowe's, but not a Home Depot. Larger cities have both. There may not be as much money, though, as you might think, although I am sure she has plenty. Her youngest sister was in a car wreck in her teens that left her permanently disabled and unable to walk, so much of the money has/will continue to go to care for her. Bob and Dottie will reap what they have sown. God promises that, so no "walls of Zion" will protect them.

You make a good point! Hadn't ever thought about it from that perspective ... just further proof "the love of money is the root of much evil" (not "all" ... check some texts if you think I'm blaspheming) ... DL, Admirer of the pooch

Agape, Welcome to GreaseSpot and to life outside the walls of the Way International! I am so much closer to God now than I was during most of my 23.5 years in TWI. I have learned to trust Him. For a kick, read Revelation 4 where it describes God's throne room and picture yourself as you are ... with total access to that throne room of God's heart. TWI tries even yet to set up itself as your "ticket to God" but the blood of Jesus Christ is your ticket ... Romans 10:9 was what you had to do to "punch your ticket." Jesus Christ the Righteous is your advocate ... no man or, God forbid, lesbian is your defense attorney. Jesus Christ paid the price for you to have access to God's heart ... the Way can never take that away! We won't be a part of that wrath which is to come, but we will be with Jesus Christ, our Brother. Cool! We'll get to see that throne room in person because that's where Jesus Christ will be, judging the nations (but not us) because we have already been judged and acquitted by the blood of Jesus Christ. Again, welcome! DogLover

My heart goes out to all of you who have lost a loved one in such a tragic way. Hugs to you all.

Our local church, which is mostly ex-Way folk and has no name (by choice) and is not a tax-exempt organization but rather a group of people who love God, love His Word, and love each other, recently donated school supplies to a public elementary school and a private couple who homeschool a group of students who have been in trouble with the law. Each month we have decided as a group to give to an organization called Heifer International that gives folks in other countries livestock or poulty to raise to become self-sustaining. The principle of Heifer International is that when your sheep, for example, gives birth, you share the wealth with another family .. it's a neat organization who can find more about if you google it. There's lots of ways to be involved locally ... if you are in a church or not, just decide what you want to do. The American Red Cross always needs help.

You go, Coolchef! What a great response to some jerk with a sense of entitlement! I love it!

Worse face melting I ever got was my interim year at HQ in 1983-84 from J*m F*r*a*o ... he probably went on for over 30 minutes and might be yelling at me still, had Charlie Q**ill*n not returned to his office and excused me ... you could tell he thought J*m had gone WAY over the edge. Runner up in the face-melting category was TJ at Gunnison....also L*s* Th*m*s (12th Corps working in the kitchen at Gunnison in 1984-85) ... and I STILL don't know what she was talking about ... folks thought it made them more spiritual, I suppose ... they picked on who they thought they could. I daresay none of the above would get in my face today ... and if they would choose to, God be with them.

I got a reply that they are still in ... coordinating something in metro Atlanta. I'm sad for them.

I learned a lot about cleaning when my job in residence one block was Bianchi apartment ... and can honestly say that Gene Bianchi had the neatest sock drawer I have ever seen (which I noticed while putting laundry away). They are nice people ... I hope for their sake that they are out. Does anyone know if they are? DogLover

WELL SAID, WAYSIDER, WELL SAID!

I was in from 1972 - January 11, 1996, and I remember that sometime during that time, Eldridge Cleaver took the PFAL Class. He didn't hang around afterward, though.

This may go on the Doctrinal thread ... but here goes anyway: Folks that do not understand that the Book of Revelation applies to Israel and not to the Church of Grace to which we belong wrongly read into it that we are on Earth for the sun being darkened, the moon being turned to blood, the locusts, all the tribulations ... but the Bible's real clear on the fact that the Christian believer is "saved from the wrath which is to come" ... we'll all be gathered together with Jesus Christ in the air and with him when all this stuff is going on on Earth ... that's not just a Way doctrine ... folks that don't know any better and that are being told that by fear--mongering ministers eager to increase their congregations are the ones that promote that. NOT being here for that stuff is a great part of what "being saved" means for us ... but yeah, I'm with you ... even if the Communists (or whoever took over), it would not be tapes and boots I would want. I thought the MAL pack was stupid when we did it in residence and I still do. (I have a "hold-over" from that time ... it's still hard for me to let my gas tank get below half full.) I remember a couple of the assistant Corps Coordinators at Emporia being very boastful about how "I wouldn't want to have you with me." I remember sitting in the Emporia Dining Room thinking, as P*t P**w**l talked, "Yeah, we're even ... I wouldn't want to go anywhere with you either." The strong feeling he and D*v* B*d**d promoted is that we were simply not spiritual enough to go with them. I remember D*v* teaching us (or more specifically, I guess, the guys) to get dogs off their trail when they were being chased -- to urinate on a tree and carry a vial of cayenne pepper to apply on top of the urine ... it would mess up the tracking dogs' sense of smell when they traced the scent of you/your urine to the tree and they would lose the scent (I am not kidding ... this happened my first year in-residence). Oh, they were *SO* spiritual ...

Yes, I don't usually get involved in these discussions, either, but Catcup has long since proved her credentials. Pond, you need to back off AND learn how to spell, capitalize, and punctuate if you are going to be taken seriously in your questioning. Perhaps you should consider whether what Catcup has said "hits too close to home" and that's why you are trying to disagree with it. I don't mean this to sound ugly ... it's just that sometimes if we have a strong reaction to something, we need to step back and see if something that is being said out of concern and with a view to help (as Catcup's post was) is being taken by us to be personal in nature. She isn't attacking anyone, personal or otherwise ... she is offering help and yes, expertise, to those who may want to avail themselves of it. If you do not choose to avail yourself of her expertise, fine. Use the time you would have spent reading and responding to this thread in a more productive way ... not attacking someone who posted information out of a good heart with the intention of helping someone.

For info on Terri Molle, check out this link: http://www.grimesgrafix.com/bears75/a.html I just found it by a search on Yahoo after reading the last post, and it is a delight to read about Terri and John's life in Florida, after TWI ...

I've seen Ralph Dubofsky witness MANY times.

I DO know that John and Elizabeth have remarried and are quite happy now ... heard from a reliable friend. I know no other details.

Reading one of the posts about someone hiding in an off-limits attic at the Indiana Campus made me think fondly back to one of my favorite hiding places at Emporia ... it seemed like you couldn't even nap on your day off without someone thinking there was something wrong with you spiritually. I would take the freight elevator in Kipp up to the attic (in cooler weather; too hot when the weather was warm) to where some of us stored our things, then nap and read to my heart's content. I even took a pillow and a blanket. No one else could get up there because I had the elevator stopped up there! Anyone else care to confess their favorite place to hide?

When I was in a WOW Vet home in Chicago in 1981-82, I was concerned because in our home, an unmarried couple (who later married) were going to her room and having sex right after Twig with her then-11-year-old child right there. I spoke to the Branch leader's wife, Y*e**e (9th Corps) and she railed and railed and railed upon me about "how dare you think there's anything wrong with that?" with me sobbing ... until her husband, D*v*s came home from work and made her stop. That was my starkest introduction to a person who thought that people's "freedom in Christ" allowed them to have premarital sex within 20 feet of the room a Bible fellowship had just finished in less than 20 minutes before. Y*e**e also told me I "had no right" to expect her to know the answer to the question of whether it was all right for people that were not married to one another to sleep together just because she was in the Corps. Fortunately, our Area Leader K**s K*le (7th Corps) told me (in a later conversation) that I had EVERY right to expect her to know it was not right for them to do that. Sadly, the morals and certainty he possessed were hard to find in other Way ministry places. Thank you, K**s, wherever you are.

MiniCorpse, What a heart-wrenching story! Reading it made me realize how strong a person you must be to have survived all that, then have what it takes to be in grad school ... enjoy your time here at the Cafe and know that it IS very healing to be around people that believe you and know, at least to some extent, what you went through.