T-Bone

The anniversary is around the same time as Halloween. They could bill opening night as Fright Night and show Snakes on the Plane – the board of trustees coming in on Ambassador One.

WordWolf, maybe it's an act of denial that safeguards their TWI-mindset. Arguing over vpw's interpretation of the Bible is one thing. You can have a gazillion different interpretations of anything in the Bible! It gets down to a philosophical viewpoint. But when we see vpw out of his "element" – it's almost comical if it wasn't so pathetic to observe his intellectual standards applied to anything in the real world – like history.

Sounds interesting, Socks. Did Morell ever note in his medical diary any insignificant side effects Hitler exhibited? Like his erratic writing behavior - every once and awhile using big letters.

I would that ye all use Dial…don’t you wish everyone did.

Don't Worry, thanks for that phrase. I enjoyed visiting with you and everyone else in chat last night – and realized your phrase helped me overcome the stigma associated with the word "cult." From now on I'm telling people I used to be in a lyin', thievin' weasel club. An idea for the 65th anniversary: I thought someone should teach from I Timothy 3:16 using the literal translation according to abusage – "great is the mystery of cleanliness." You see, most Christians focus on Jesus Christ being at the right hand of God. They never look to the left of God's throne – there's a bar of soap. Now if TWI a leader was smart - they'd use the momentum of their recent theme on forgiveness to pack their teaching with a wallop! In order to make amends for the homo-purge, I'd suggest having LCM be the teacher, dressed in a pink tutu. He'd have the gravitas to say "Our regurgitation staff has figured out the bar of soap on the left hand of God is actually Irish Spring…Manly, yes – but I like it too."

It's all about the more redundant life. It's all about the more redundant life. It's all about the more redundant life. Welcome to Grease Spot, EgilKent - thanks for sharing that story - I think he did make the right choice too.

Party on, Garth !!!

Good point...that was just wishful thinking on their part.

Same principles as the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce: "What happens here, stays here"

Those are all great, Ron - THANKS!!!... But # 16 is my favorite....I haven't done any of these yet - but I am working up the nerve to refer to myself in the third person all day at work.

Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of Headquarters

DWBH, I’m glad you’re still exposing those lyin’, thievin’ weasels!!!! You probably don’t remember me – but I remember talking to you on the phone – shortly after we left. I was still writing in my Corps journal [some habits are hard to break ] and noted talking to you and RumRunner one particular weekend - you spoke of the adultery and lies at HQ. And what stands out in my wife’s [Tonto] memory more than anything was me telling her how you sounded choked up after I said something like, “What are we going to do about friends…we’ve lost all our friends.” You don’t know how critical it was to our sanity and wading through the TWI bull$hi+ to be able to talk to you and other leadership who didn’t whitewash everything…Yo waitress - a round of cappuccino for all the friends I’ve gained at Grease Spot!!!!

Yup – I did Don't Don't[/b]]…there's something about Grease Spot that just inspires me . Well, you said so yourself with your comment on all the fabulous posts of this thread. This is a great place to think out loud – glad you came here!

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There’s so many, I don’t know where to begin. I will mention my favorite movies by them: Abbott & Costello meet Frankenstein and Hold That Ghost. Cool clip – thanks!

Welcome to Grease Spot, Don't Worry Be Happy!...I agree with the sentiment in your posts. When it comes to Christians dealing with one another over offenses - I think some folks forget about Jesus' words on another important aspect of the whole process: Matthew 18:15-17 NIV 15 If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector. I look at forgiveness as only one step in the whole process of reconciliation. Isn't reconciliation the ultimate goal when talking about forgiveness? At least in Christian circles. Isn't that how God works? The Holy Spirit convicts someone of sin. Then God wants the person to acknowledge their sin [admit their guilt] as the first step toward reconciliation to Him. The sinner realizes the enormity of their offense - and seeking forgiveness - is drawn to the most logical place...the Cross of Christ!... God desires to forgive - the sinner craves to be forgiven...And both sides [yes, even the sinner to some degree] are aware of what it took to get the "negotiations" thus far. In reference to TWI-leadership offenses - the reconciliation process [brother-to-brother] is stymied by the offending party's refusal to admit an offense has been made. I think it is unbiblical to demand forgiveness in a situation where the other aspects that relate to the reconciliation process are sorely neglected. As far as the offended party actually forgiving the offender anyway – I think in some unspoken way that may happen a lot more than we realize – just as a matter of releasing ourselves from the bonds of anger, resentment, hatred, etc. I wonder if sometimes we mistake this longing for reconciliation as being unforgiving.

The idea may have some merit. Your post got me thinking of how Jesus was received in His day. Yes, there were "shrouded" prophecies in the Old Testament that spoke of His suffering and death – but to the eyes of the gospel-period folks perhaps the prophecies of the Messiah's kingship and glory eclipsed all of those. I'm thinking of where the crowd wanted to take Him by force and make Him king and of His post-resurrection dialog with the two despondent disciples on the road to Emmaus – explaining to them the WHOLE picture of Him having to suffer first and then enter into glory… Perhaps it was something sorely overlooked by the demonic forces as well – or inconceivable how this all worked together. It's intriguing to think of God as setting up a sting operation – banking on the Devil and his hosts being unable to resist targeting a perceived weak point in God's plan – a mere mortal for a Messiah.

I look at God "using" as taking advantage of all the factors involved in a situation. Like a master strategist would in forming a plan of action. Take for instance the problem of sin. How does God, as supreme ruler, not overstep man's freewill in order to rescue man from sin? Is there a way to get the key factors to work together somehow? Let's think of sin as a viral epidemic. Then we could look at salvation's plan as God designing a unique antidote for sin by incorporating sin, freewill and the Lamb of God. When these three "mix" together – we have the triggering mechanism to not only create the antidote but also facilitate administering the antidote. God's sovereignty Provides the sinless Lamb for sacrifice - the active ingredient that actually renders sin impotent. Sin The destructive virus. It was the sinful desires that motivated the key players in the gospels to crucify Jesus...Acknowledging the symptoms of sin - motivates one to look to the cross. Freewill The power of self-determination – the catalyst. Its role in "creating" the antidote: the key players in the gospels – of their own volition – chose the bad thing to do - crucify Jesus…Now when it comes to "administering" the antidote – it is available to anyone who acknowledges the infection of sin, and through their own volition – chooses the good - and accepts the antidote, the sinless Lamb of God. I don't know if the above is the best analogy – just thinking out loud - but that's how I understand passages that allude to both the sovereignty of God and man's freewill: Luke 22:20-23 NIV 20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed, but woe to that man who betrays him." 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this.

Thank you, WordWolf - for the sanity you bring to every thread. And thanks to everyone [all without exception] for your posts [all with distinction…..and if anyone is wanting more specifics from me on what parts of what posts – sorry, that's between me and God]. I realized something after making reference to the confusing time right after PoP in my previous post. When the crapstorms come at Grease Spot – it's usually in the About the Way forum – ….ahem…excuse me while I pause a moment for reflection – duh!!!! There's times here when the crapstorms get thick…and the flashbacks come strongest. Right after PoP, upper leadership had their heads up their bu++s – affording us lower goons time to think freely. The only snag was, we were still in the habit of framing problems in the TWI-mindset…One of the things I like about Grease Spot is learning to kick old habits. One of the things I hate about Grease Spot is the old habits that come out in the crapstorms. I have learned a valuable lesson on this thread – I need to stop wasting my time and energy with crap that just doesn't matter – I've made a decision. You're not going to have Nixon to kick around anymore…oops – wait – wrong speech. This is not going to be a sayonara post. This is a public announcement of the T-Bone's Time & Energy Re-distribution Program: spend more time & energy doing the things I enjoy – reading books, playing the bass, watching movies, doing things with my family, and discussing stuff with folks at Grease Spot [probably hang out mostly in the Doctrinal, Open and Silly forums…maybe peek into About the Way once and awhile to see what the weather is like – but I already know the forecast – craptorms, crapstorms, crapstorms – Dot, thank you for that word].

Good point, WordWolf – your post about Joseph made me think of a few passages I used to read to remind myself that God has everything worked out and to trust Him: Genesis 50:20 NASB As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive. Psalm 31:13-15 NASB 13 For I have heard the slander of many, Terror is on every side; While they took counsel together against me, They schemed to take away my life. 14 But as for me, I trust in You, O LORD, I say, "You are my God." 15 My times are in Your hand; Deliver me from the hand of my enemies and from those who persecute me. Romans 8:28-30 NASB 28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. And thinking about the whole Joseph story something by Jay Adams in More Than Redemption [pages 124-126] came to mind – Adams talks about how God determines to carry out the decrees of His will not by violating, but by using human personality to bring it to pass. Sometimes I'll have the erroneous idea of God being aloof – in some far off region of space – and picture Him on occasion "interfering" with human history by an overt-act-lightning bolt-Hollywood-special-effects kind of a thing. But it's really a trip to consider God as being one who is both in time and outside time – who may deem it appropriate to have a certain person's decision or act be a means to His end - that puts Him as working within human history. So, it's more along the lines of covert ops . I think you're right on God's omniscience and man's freewill working together. C.H. Spurgeon called God's sovereignty and man's responsibility "friends" – not "enemies." I've been going through some old notes of mine on the sovereignty of God – I think my notes on "antinomy" are from Evangelism & the Sovereignty of God by J.I. Packer – thought I would post them here as I think they're relevant to our discussion: Antinomy is defined as a contradiction between conclusions, which seem equally logical, reasonable, or necessary. Antinomy exists when a pair of principles stands side by side, seemingly irreconcilable, yet both undeniable. In physics, there is evidence to show light consists of waves and there is evidence to show that it consists of particles. Antinomy is not the same as a paradox – which unites two opposite ideas, or to deny something by the very terms in which it is asserted. Many Christian truths can be expressed as paradoxes: "service is perfect freedom"…"having nothing yet possessing all things." The point of a paradox, however, is that what creates the paradox is not the facts, but the words. The contradiction is verbal, but not real; also a paradox is always comprehensible. A speaker or writer casts his ideas into paradoxes in order to make them memorable and provoke thought about them. Antinomy is not comprehensible; it is not a figure of speech, but an observed relation between two statements of fact. The particular antinomy with divine sovereignty and human responsibility is in seeing side by side – God as King who rules supreme and God as Judge who holds every man responsible for the choices he makes.

Wow – WordWolf, that is some tremendous food for thought! Great post! I definitely see that – things that happen in life – catastrophes, problems, a minor crisis – they act as a catalyst – bringing someone to a turning point. Makes me think of Jesus' comments about some recent tragedies: Luke 13:1-5 NKJV 1 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." Maybe it's similar to that weird little sobering thought that shoots through our minds once and awhile – like when we see some horrific event on the news [9/11, earthquakes, fatal car wreck, plane crash, etc.], "Am I ready to die?"

More power to ya, on this special day!

Abigail, you know I like you too and think a lot of you – as I've expressed on a few threads. Presently our discussion here has highlighted some important "peripheral" issues that pervade Grease Spot, in my humble opinion. I hope no one takes offense in what I'm about to say – because I am including myself in my observations - my overall impression of Grease Spot. Most of us here have had some kind of experience with TWI. When we compare "notes" I see a wide variety of good and bad experiences and just as varied collection of opinions of the whole experience. The same can be said of doctrinal and philosophical issues. And like our experiences that is also a very personal thing – an ongoing process for many here – sorting through doctrines and ideas - re-examining…thinking…exploring. The third and perhaps the most elusive "peripheral" issue is the troublesome dynamics that we practiced in our TWI-days – and sometimes surface here – as a ghost in the machine. Grease Spot is a crazy mix of folks - each person having individual experiences, opinions, beliefs, but also quirky interpersonal baggage leftover from TWI...Looks like we all bought our luggage from the same store . "Troublesome dynamics" is how I refer to the trouble-making processes that actually make matters worse – by compounding the problem [if there even is a problem to begin with]. I dunno – they can sneak into [naturally or intentionally] the big picture of… group dynamics ? [any psyche majors out there feel free to chime in and fine tune this] and throw up a smokescreen around what's really going on. There's something powerful about all the forces in play of any social setting. After PoP TWI was a big mess with upper leadership's inept crisis management. Certain issues were brought up in PoP and later talked about by upper leadership. As this played out, there was something I noticed in letters and tapes from Headquarters, in responses to my letters to upper leadership and my Corps brothers. The focus on those certain issues was eclipsed by the bigger issue – "the integrity of the Word is at stake now." This is a troublesome dynamic. It's avoiding the real issues…."Devil spirits are getting you to doubt God's ministry." These are troublesome dynamics – blame-shifting and inducing fear. Sometimes I'll see that happen here [just my opinion – I could be wrong], particularly on this thread. Only the phrases are adapted for ex-TWI folks – so we accuse another of succumbing to group-think, or using TWI-tactics. Sometimes the shoe fits – sometimes it doesn't – but either way the real issue gets lost in the sauce. In my opinion, the real issue of this thread has been attitudes. Tonto expressed her attitude in post # 1. Folks responded with their attitude about Tonto's attitude, discussed what's the right attitude toward Tonto's attitude, expressed attitudes toward newbies, Oldies, wife-beating by yours truly, soylent green, BBQ, women, bulwinkl's avatar, PFAL, freedom of expression, soft vanilla ice cream, Bangladesh [no wait that's "balderdash" – what Oldies said in post # 209], the ignore button, John Juedes, Larry, Larry's attitudes, poster's attitudes about Larry's attitudes, squirrels, Drambuie, and extremely long posts like this one. Obviously, my attitude is a longitude. ~~ At Grease Spot we sometimes throw out the term "Way-brain" in reference to the troublesome dynamics we now see when reflecting on a decision we made in TWI. Here's the part where I may step on some toes – but like I indicated above – my toes are included – see, I toed you so . I view everyone here as great folks – and each of us is at a different stage of exorcising the ghosts in the machine. Cman mentioned something about Larry sticking around if he can handle change as we all have – that's what Grease Spot is all about! And that's a great point, Cman!!!!!! What kind of change are we talking about? I can't speak for anyone else – but I think it's a change of environment that leads to individual freedom and growth. Now here's where my viewpoint comes in [so it may be wrong] – I see us all as coming from a manipulative and controlled environment with very little freedom [TWI] to a place where thinking and debating is encouraged [Grease Spot Café]. There is no common point of view here. About the only common denominator is that most of the folks here have had something to do with TWI. I see it like the big bang theory. We were all clustered in a big glob [TWI] – something happened [not at the same time but for the sake of this analogy] – and in the explosion we all shoot off in a gazillion different directions. Some of the energy that kept us together as a glob can still exert a force on us. I have nothing against you personally, Abigail – nor do I wish to get into a debate over Larry's posts or your assessment of him from PMs. My intent on this thread was to call attention to a troublesome dynamic. Larry is NOT the troublesome dynamic. His attitude is one of the troublesome dynamics on this and other threads. Should that be banned from Grease Spot? No - but it helps to identify it - get it out in the open so we can see how it's affecting things. Should Larry be banned from Grease Spot? No - if he is being genuine with good intentions. I have called attention to a troublesome dynamic for the sake of everyone involved – including Larry! I'm not kidding!!!!!! Who has the patience or time to wade through a smokescreen of belligerent, bullying, arrogant, belittling attitudes to find a gem? We all have so much to contribute here – and the commerce of hearts and ideas fares a whole lot better when the "machinery" isn't all gunked up with troublesome dynamics. I remember an old saying in TWI that gave me focus in witnessing and counseling – and I think it is still true – people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. I'll listen and consider something from someone when I feel they are being genuine and have good intentions. Otherwise, I will continue to remain on guard – evaluating. Honest feedback is a good thing – it gives us an idea of how others perceive us – and should make us consider if that is how we want others to see us. There is no "high road" on this thread: "I'm going to look past all that bad stuff and see the person." That is extremely difficult – if not impossible – if all you see are his words on a computer screen. "Well…yes…but a person posted that – I know they mean well." I haven't come to a conclusion yet on what his intentions are. My impression of him so far, from his words, from the way he interacts with others, from the way he says things - leads me to think he's either a plant, a troll or a person with TWI experiences who has some serious issues. I'll ignore a plant or troll – but welcome anybody with good intentions regardless of what they think of TWI or what issues they may have.

What happened in Acts 2 was quite different from what Paul addressed in I Corinthians. Acts 2:5-13 NKJV 5 And there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. 6 And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language. 7 Then they were all amazed and marveled, saying to one another, "Look, are not all these who speak Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each in our own language in which we were born? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, those dwelling in Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya adjoining Cyrene, visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, 11 Cretans and Arabs—we hear them speaking in our own tongues the wonderful works of God." 12 So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "Whatever could this mean?" 13 Others mocking said, "They are full of new wine." Devout men from various nations heard these Galileans speak in their native tongue! Truly a miraculous simultaneous broadcast of the wonderful works of God in the languages of the audience. This wasn't a typical church service – like the setting to which Corinthians speaks. No one needed the interpretation of tongues in Acts 2 – which is also called for in Corinthians. Sure they all spoke in tongues at the same time in Acts 2 – but their tongues were understood perfectly by those who naturally spoke those languages. Where in the Bible does it indicate that was a feature of speaking in tongues that the charismatic could control? "Today, I'm addressing Iranians so when I speak in tongues it will be Arabic." I think it's an unfounded assumption to insist that what happened in Acts 2 was the norm for the charismatic church.

You are absolutely correct! They got one little detail wrong in the above post. He's actually working in one of those greasy hot dog stands that you see just outside the Home Depot stores. And if you'll notice - I've underscored the word "greasy".